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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
ive been getting really angry with my T because she acts clinical. she calls herself by her full name when she leaves me messages. as if i wont know who she is???
she asked me why that bothers me and i told her it makes me feel like she isnt sincere and that i dont get through to her in a real way.
im wondering, do all therapists behave that clinically? i have been reading some books that talk about a therapist who refuses to be a role and acts human to his patients. i feel like this would be better for me. more real. less frustrating.
thoughts????
Posted by emmanuel98 on December 10, 2009, at 18:54:52
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
My T has always referred to himself as Dr. X and that's what I call him. I know his first name. It's on his cards. But we never use it. I think this level of formality keeps boundaries high. Your T is not your friend or your parent, but just someone who bears witness and facilitates your growth. Fortunately, my T has always said these things to me and never pretended to be like a friend. That's helped me deal with the boundaries, actually. Maybe your T feels the same way.
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2009, at 19:50:11
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
It always bugged me when my therapist signed his full name to his infrequent emails. He uses his first name when he calls, and his full name always seemed like a bit of a distancing on his part.
But he says it was just his habit in written communications.
How does your therapist refer to herself at other times?
Posted by blahblahblah on December 11, 2009, at 6:38:45
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
My T does the same thing. I have said to her that I know who she is and she doesn't have to do that. It's like she picks and chooses when to be professional and not. Though it seems to be more of not being professional and I am meant to just accept it when she chooses to be.
Posted by Helana on December 11, 2009, at 9:05:00
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by blahblahblah on December 11, 2009, at 6:38:45
My T does the same thing...hello this is xxx from xxx. First of all ur the only xxx I know, second you're the only person I know with that accent and third i'm just good with voices like that...so please KNOCK IT OFF!!
I have to chuckle everytime I hear it now, cuz over two years you know she's just being professional and I wonder what she thinks everytime she has to say her name. I think it's to cover there butts. If they weren't professional like that and a client had erotic transference and perceived the T to be acting on it and reported it...he/she could scrutinize the T and use any little thing as a possible boundery violation such as being too personal and not using a full name. maybe?
Posted by pegasus on December 11, 2009, at 13:40:46
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
I understand some of the replies here about why a T might want to insist on being so professional in those situations, but it always falls a bit flat with me. I've had several Ts and after a few sessions, they've always started referring to themselves with their first names with me. It would have annoyed the heck out of me to get a VM from one of them with them using their first and last name.
But I suppose it's all grist for the mill. Meaning maybe it would be productive to discuss why it bugs you so much. For example, for me it would bug me because it's would feel like they were placing themselves above me. Like they were saying, "I am Sue Smith, the important professional person who doesn't have a relationship with you." Maybe it would be useful to discuss with my T why I interpret it that way, and why it bothers me so much. Sounds like others might be bugged by the same behavior for slightly different reasons.
I suppose if the T has a very common first name, they might leave both names to make sure you don't get confused about who it is. But after a few sessions, I can't imagine not recognizing my Ts voice, of all people. Plus there's the context, which would usually be a give away, if by some miracle I didn't catch it from the voice and first name.
peg
Posted by rnny on December 14, 2009, at 23:56:21
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
my old T used to use their full name when returning a call if I wasn't home and I used to think "why are they using their last name, i know who this is". I felt like they were trying to distance themself from me.
Posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 0:06:34
In reply to T acts clinical, posted by deerock on December 10, 2009, at 18:50:33
I wonder why this never seemed to be an issue with my T and me? I call him Dr. T and he refers to himself as Dr. T in conversations. Its seems natural and I feel affectionate referring to him that way. Never thought about calling him by his first name.Does anyone call their T/psychiatrist by their first name, or is it just me who does not? Curious now.
On the other hand, his mannerisms and our conversations--our relationship-seems equal, seems more genuine than clinical.He portrays himself more of a helping partner, and understanding and nonjudgmental.More like an inspiring friend..with non-friend boundaries.Some psychiatrists in the past i've experienced seemed like their face would crack if they were to smile.
Posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 9:09:47
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 0:06:34
> I wonder why this never seemed to be an issue with my T and me? I call him Dr. T and he refers to himself as Dr. T in conversations. Its seems natural and I feel affectionate referring to him that way. Never thought about calling him by his first name.Does anyone call their T/psychiatrist by their first name, or is it just me who does not? Curious now.
I call my T by his first name, thats what we do in Europe, where I live, after seeing each other a couple of times. Besides, me and my T are almost in the same age and then we always refer to our first name. But I think I wouldnt mind calling him by his last name if he rather would prefer that.
> On the other hand, his mannerisms and our conversations--our relationship-seems equal, seems more genuine than clinical.He portrays himself more of a helping partner, and understanding and nonjudgmental.More like an inspiring friend..with non-friend boundaries.Some psychiatrists in the past i've experienced seemed like their face would crack if they were to smile.
Their face would crack - hahaha, hilarious! That kind of analyst is not for me at all. I prefer an analyst trained in object relations theory and Self psychology. It looks like we have the same type of T, and the same type of relationships too. My T is also very friendly, very relaxed and has a great sense of humour and we laugh a lot together. I really like him. But, as you mentioned, we have those necessarily non-friendly boundaries. I dont want him to be my friend; I want him to be my T in the end, thats what Im paying him for.
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 9:12:57
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 9:09:47
lingon, is your T same sex as you?
Posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 9:28:41
In reply to Re: T acts clinical » lingonberry, posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 9:12:57
> lingon, is your T same sex as you?
No, we are the opposite sex, Im a female.
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 9:41:28
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 9:28:41
interesting. if you have such a good relationship with the therapist, whats the point of being in therapy? i always thought the point of therapy was to work out relational issues that come up in therapy.
i guess it makes me feel really messed up when i think about how much i rage at my therapist and then hearing about others who get along well with their therapists.
i should mention that most of the time, i get along with my therapist fine. its just that i get pissed and lose sight of how pissed i am.
glad things are going well for you and southern.
Posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 9:52:22
In reply to Re: T acts clinical » lingonberry, posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 9:41:28
Deerock,
I'm also female with a male T who is the same age as my father would be. I never got angry with my father but should have, instead, I feel sorry for him and his life. I feel anger towards my mother but have had problems most of my life even feeling angry with people in general. Thats not good or healthy. Anger must be experienced and felt, not blocked or twisted to feeling sympathy for someone who has abused you, thinking they were in so much pain they were suffering so much and couldn't help it.
So this is good-funny you said that because I feel like the deficient one not having anger towards my father, towards T. My T even said that I should be angry, but I don't yet. but I also may have not been in therapy as long as you.Also my T doesn't sound as analytical as yours and like Ligonberry's T-we laugh and joke. I don't think I could handle a purely psychoanalytical T right now, mine is more eclectic.
I think not feeling anger is a defense, not sure, but I think it will eentually happen and I hope it does.
Posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 10:01:13
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 9:52:22
Maybe I should mention that my mother seems to not have empathy, while my father, though was abusive, seemed to care about me and have a connection. It makes me angry thinking my mother never really loved me and that I was merely an object to her (not as in object relations). I think if I had a female T the anger would be on the surface. However, since I am a straight female, and I have love relationships with men, I thought it would be better to see a male T, but that is just one reason...
I don't feel safe with female authority figures, only recently realized this. Not safe enough to express my deepest emotions.. I feel safe with my male T...safe enough to tell him anything.
I've had several female Ts in the past, but they were the CBT type of therapists, and I basically just intellectualized my childhood with them rather than felt all these feelings I'm experiencing for the first time with newer T.
Don't worry-you are doing fine!!!!
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 10:04:12
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 9:52:22
southernesky,
i understand what you are saying. i know someone who is very restrained in their anger. i can understand how it can be a defense in the same way that anger can be a defense. its interesting that we both thought our way of dealing was the deficient one. sommething to note!!
anyways...southernesky...youve really been there for me the last few days. i'd like to thank you again.
enjoy your day.
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 10:05:58
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 10:01:13
::)) and so are you!!
Posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 11:27:43
In reply to Re: T acts clinical » lingonberry, posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 9:41:28
> interesting. if you have such a good relationship with the therapist, whats the point of being in therapy?
Hi Deerock,
and thanks for asking. I have emotional issues I need to work trough, (Ive grown up with neglect and abuse)and having a good relationship with my T is exactly whats given me the opportunity to do that.
> i always thought the point of therapy was to work out relational issues that come up in therapy.
Youre right. But that doesnt necessarily mean you have to act on those feelings. I get mad at my T, especially in the past, but I dont act on those feelings; I feel them and then we talk about them. My T is not my enemy, my own thoughts and feelings are.
> i guess it makes me feel really messed up when i think about how much i rage at my therapist and then hearing about others who get along well with their therapists.Dont fool yourself - youre not messed up. You have a lot of insights. Try not to compare yourself with others. We just react in different ways.
> i should mention that most of the time, i get along with my therapist fine. its just that i get pissed and lose sight of how pissed i am.
Maybe thats the difference between us - I dont lose sight.
> glad things are going well for you and southern.Thank you! I wish you the best.
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 11:50:28
In reply to Re: T acts clinical deerock, posted by lingonberry on December 15, 2009, at 11:27:43
>>Youre right. But that doesnt necessarily mean you have to act on those feelings. I get mad at my T, especially in the past, but I dont act on those feelings; I feel them and then we talk about them. My T is not my enemy, my own thoughts and feelings are.
I think what you said above is exactly what the problem was/is.
I told my T I was angry really calmly. But I think the whole issue is why I was angry. I felt like my T was not helping me and was holding her responsible for my feelings. That made me feel like she was my enemy. Along with that, she is female and my mother was always against me in some way, so I assumed she was the same way.So how are you defining acting out anger? I feel there are different ways of defining this. I think what I do is get angry and then try to make the person responsible for my anger. When they cannot remove it, I start to think the other person is bad or is doing me some kind of harm.
But I don't know if thats acting out my anger. I feel like acting on anger means yelling or threatening someone or even hitting them. I didn't do that with my T. I think what I acted out is some kind of connection with my mom where i expect mom/t to make me feel better. they dont. i assume they are useless. maybe making the conclusion that this person is no good is a way of acting out the anger. im giving myself a headache. its time to let this go for a bit.
Posted by lingonberry on December 16, 2009, at 11:34:45
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 9:52:22
> Deerock,
>
> I'm also female with a male T who is the same age as my father would be. I never got angry with my father but should have, instead, I feel sorry for him and his life. I feel anger towards my mother but have had problems most of my life even feeling angry with people in general. Thats not good or healthy. Anger must be experienced and felt, not blocked or twisted to feeling sympathy for someone who has abused you, thinking they were in so much pain they were suffering so much and couldn't help it.OMG! Is it me whos talking or what? Apparently, we have the same background and are struggling with same issues - anger versus feeling sorry for the abuser. Spooky!
> So this is good-funny you said that because I feel like the deficient one not having anger towards my father, towards T. My T even said that I should be angry, but I don't yet. but I also may have not been in therapy as long as you.Also my T doesn't sound as analytical as yours and like Ligonberry's T-we laugh and joke. I don't think I could handle a purely psychoanalytical T right now, mine is more eclectic.
Thats the flip side of the coin some are very angry and acts on those feelings, others, like me, feeling guilty abut them.. I have difficulties with peoples behaviour, see trough their acting, their innocent face, that they (consciously or unconsciously, it doesnt matter) act a certain way to provoke guilt in me so they can get rid of theirs. I react at my instincts but Im not used to listening and acting on them. I was never allowed to show anger to my mom, only she was.
> I think not feeling anger is a defense, not sure, but I think it will eentually happen and I hope it does.Yeah, it surely is. But now Im able to, and so will you probably when you are feeling less guilt.
Bye!(((Southernsky)))
Lingonberry
Posted by Verloren on December 21, 2009, at 6:08:00
In reply to Re: T acts clinical, posted by southernsky on December 15, 2009, at 0:06:34
I've never noticed whether it bothered me or not, but now I just realized my T also leaves her first and last name when she leaves a vm. It doesn't bother me cause I figure she's just being profession and also in case someone else might be taking down my msgs. She leaves off the Dr. which I guess is why it never bothered me.
Sometimes when I call her I leave my full name too even though my name is pretty uncommon. LOL!I always had trouble saying my T's last name so I shortened it and just referred to her as Dr. XXX instead of Dr. XXXXXXX.
After a while I asked her if it was okay that I nicknamed her like that and she said "yes, and thanks for asking". Although she never refers to herself as the nickname, she will respond to it.I don't feel right calling her by her first name; seems to personal. I call all my other Dr.s by Dr. This or Dr. That, so it's a matter of consistency for me.
My T is not very clinical, tho I guess she could be. She's not afraid to laugh if something is funny or admit when her comments/advice might not be the most clinical.
-Verloren
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