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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
I quit my T after ~6 months because of the following reasons:
1) Disclosure of T's personal issues that really bothered me (I knew about T's parents, siblings, kids, etc.)
2) Lack of T's ability to help get me grounded or help me "come back" before kicking me out the door
Sometimes T kicked me out and I would wind up in various places (on foot); T did not care.
3) Lack of T's ability to help me figure out what I needed to calm myself down
4) T's cost
5) T constantly saying I was a difficult client
6) T never saying anything positive about me to perhaps help a little with my beyond low self-esteem.
7) T's therapy styleThis T came recommended and it did not work out. Why do I keep winding up with T's that tell me all about their lives? This is so incredibly painful to me, seeing as I have no family and no close-friends. Why do I keep winding up in this role-reversal?
Disclosing about how great families are and issues in families does not help someone who was raised in foster care. God it hurts.
I am so absolutely devestated that I can't even think about ever seeing a T again in my life.
Talk about more harm than help. My whole life has been and is a mess and I can't find someone to help me.And the worse part is that I am missing this *ssh*l* T, even though I know it is not right.
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 16:04:42
In reply to I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
((((LT)))))
I'm so sorry. This is awful and you deserve so much better.
Fact: not all Ts are like this. I don't know how many Ts you have seen until now and I know right not isn't the moment to be making decisions about finding another T because this is the heat of the moment but there is hope. Disclosure can be helpful in therapy when used carefully but the disclosure you describe can and has been very destructive.
How can you get through the next hours, days until the intensity of these feelings have subsided? I know you feel like giving up - you feel like dying - but these are the feelings of intense frustration and pain, please don't act on these feelings - please do what you need to to keep yourself safe, even if it means going to the hospital.
If you can, try to find ways to express how you are feeling - write it down, scream it if that helps until you can sit with them and are ready to face the future once more. There is a future and there is hope. I've had some very hopeless, low mo ments - I've wanted to die too - but I'm always glad I didn't. Please take care and keep safe.
((Gentle hugs and understanding going your way.))
Witti
Posted by Kath on February 23, 2009, at 17:30:44
In reply to I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
So very sorry that T - actuall 't' - doesn't deserve a capital letter!!!
Sorry that t behaved in such an unprofessional and unskilled and harmful, hurtful way with you.
Right now, when you're right in the intensity of these feelings, why not make a 'requirements' list for if you ever are considering having a T (WITH a capital) in the future?
What exactly you would require in a T before deciding to 'hire' one.
Then you can actually mail it or email it to him or her & see if she or he thinks they'd be a good 'fit'. Or take it to the first meeting.
We get 'estimates' & outlines of details of work from people who are going to be working on our roofs, or our cars, etc. WE are way more important than those things!
There are some wonderful therapists. You deserve a nurturing, skilled, kind, caring therapist. I hope that someday you will have one.
I also understand how it could be VERY difficult to even consider it.
And I'm sorry that you miss t. With your background, I suspect you put a lot of hope into the relationship helping you to heal. I'm really sorry for your crummy experiences with therapists.
((you)) Kath
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 21:28:46
In reply to I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
Hi.
I am so sorry that your experiences with therapists have been so disappointing - if not destructive.
People here can suggest how you can go about better interviewing prospective therapists to help make sure you get one that will be a good fit. I would even tell the prospective therapist what were the main obstacles to your successful therapy in the past, including the behaviors of your former therapists and their tendency to disclose personal information.
Easier said than done, I know. It takes a certain amount of assertiveness to actually interview someone. However, it is the quality of your life that hangs in the balance. You don't need great self-esteem to ask for what you need, just a certain amount of desperation. You seem to have plenty of that.
One step at a time.
- Scott
Posted by raisinb on February 24, 2009, at 7:59:21
In reply to I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
Looney Tunes,
It sounds like you did exactly the right thing in leaving this therapist. In doing so, you stood up for yourself and your own emotional health. You were there for you, when even your therapist wasn't. That means you're much, much stronger than you think. Try to hang on to this and trust that with that kind of inner strength, this terrible time will pass.
As others have said, there are so many wonderful therapists out there. I think it's interesting that you identified a pattern in your relationships with your therapists. This isn't your fault at all--it's the therapists' responsibility to stop these types of patterns. So I think you should explain in detail to your next therapist what led to the ending of this relationship. That way, s/he will be able to help prevent that dynamic from repeating itself.
Your helplessness, wanting to die feelings--it sounds to me that even though your therapist is the one who screwed up, you blame yourself on some level. This is common for people with a history of abuse, neglect, or any other trauma. But it isn't true. Once you truly understand that it isn't your fault, you will be able to move on from this destructive relationship.
But it may take time to be able to do that, it it will probably take help. In the meantime, you have experienced a loss, and you need to be patient with yourself. Take care of yourself--rent movies, eat ice cream--whatever.
(((LT)))
Posted by backseatdriver on February 24, 2009, at 13:09:53
In reply to Re: I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die. » Looney Tunes, posted by raisinb on February 24, 2009, at 7:59:21
LT,
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I want to second the thought someone posted above, that not all Ts are like this.
_Narcissism and the Psychotherapist_ is a good book that explains why some bad therapists take advantage of their vulnerable clients. The book's basic message is: Ts come to their professions with plenty of baggage and not all of it gets worked through before they start treating clients.
Alas, the most disturbed Ts are sometimes also the most empathic. This is one reason it is so easy to get embroiled with a bad T. They seem to "get you" right away. And it's true, they do understand a great deal, but lack the skills and insight needed to put that understanding in the service of YOUR health and happiness. Which is their job.
I wish I knew how to tell in advance which empathic Ts are good at this, and which are not.
Another sad fact: These dangerous people often DO manage to find the MOST empathic and vulnerable clients, people who have been trained from early life to look after the needs of cherished others in order to ensure their own survival.
Please hear this: This is not your fault. I am vulnerable this way, too. It is very hard to find empathic therapists who are not tempted to use me for their own needs. My current T tends to offend in this way, but he is good about recognizing the violations when they happen, and he apologizes with conviction, which means a lot.
Wishing you peace and healing. Your strength gives me hope.
Yours,
BSD
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 13:32:01
In reply to Re: I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by backseatdriver on February 24, 2009, at 13:09:53
This has been a very illuminating post. I have encountered at least two practicing psychologists whom were narcissists. For some reason, these people come to loathe me. I find it amusing. What is not amusing is that they can indeed be predators, especially on the young. I like the way your describe the powers of being empathic as being used as a tool for manipulation, and just as amazing to me is that they are attracted to certain people because they possess the same ability. It makes sense.
By the way, if you enclose the title of a book in double double-quotes, it shows as a link to Amazon search results.
"Narcissism and the Psychotherapist"
- Scott*************************************************
> LT,
>
> I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I want to second the thought someone posted above, that not all Ts are like this.
>
> _Narcissism and the Psychotherapist_ is a good book that explains why some bad therapists take advantage of their vulnerable clients. The book's basic message is: Ts come to their professions with plenty of baggage and not all of it gets worked through before they start treating clients.
>
> Alas, the most disturbed Ts are sometimes also the most empathic. This is one reason it is so easy to get embroiled with a bad T. They seem to "get you" right away. And it's true, they do understand a great deal, but lack the skills and insight needed to put that understanding in the service of YOUR health and happiness. Which is their job.
>
> I wish I knew how to tell in advance which empathic Ts are good at this, and which are not.
>
> Another sad fact: These dangerous people often DO manage to find the MOST empathic and vulnerable clients, people who have been trained from early life to look after the needs of cherished others in order to ensure their own survival.
>
> Please hear this: This is not your fault. I am vulnerable this way, too. It is very hard to find empathic therapists who are not tempted to use me for their own needs. My current T tends to offend in this way, but he is good about recognizing the violations when they happen, and he apologizes with conviction, which means a lot.
>
> Wishing you peace and healing. Your strength gives me hope.
>
> Yours,
> BSD
Posted by garnet71 on February 24, 2009, at 18:05:07
In reply to Re: I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die. » backseatdriver, posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 13:32:01
I like the way your describe the powers of being empathic as being used as a tool for manipulation, and just as amazing to me is that they are attracted to certain people because they possess the same ability. It makes sense.
- Scott
--------------------------
Scott, I have to point out--because its very important--that narcissists, on the far right of the scale, have no empathy. Zero. They are sociopaths; the difference being a sociopath is more sadistic, among other things. Some are, however, often highly intelligent and can fake empathy. In emotionally manipulating a person, they develop skills--so strongly--that seem like empathy in order to manipulate you, because feeding off another is life to them. They may develop skills to morph into someone who is the mirror of the person they are manipulating (ex. they even mimic your body language, adopt your values, likes and dislikes), and can easily become exactly, I mean exactly, what you want or need in a person (could be doctor, therapist, friend, boyfriend). They are astute chameleons, and somehow through strong instinctual antennas, can develop a posture that fills some type of void in another. In a nutshell, they are experts at finding that void and becoming it.
They are very attracted to, not necessarily sexually, to those with heightened empathy because they have none and it makes them feel alive; meanwhile, they loathe those who can so strongly 'feel'; they loathe that strong life spirit--because it represents something they do not have; their anger is manifested this way, in part. In the end, they are destructive to your soul; they suck the life out of you. Just like a vampire, they cannot survive without feeding off you. In protracted cases, your spirit is slowly sucked right out of you.
Scott, how did you know your therapists were narcissists? Teachers, doctors, and the military are prime fields for pathological people, so I'm not surprised at all.
Posted by garnet71 on February 24, 2009, at 18:08:51
In reply to I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by Looney Tunes on February 23, 2009, at 15:31:02
Looney Tunes, I don't know what else to say but I understand why they prey after you. It's the nature of pathological people. You have a strong, empathetic spirit, and they seek that out with their antennas. You need to learn more about narcissts so this doesn't repeat. It's very common to victims of narcissists to be sought out repeatedly as prey. I totally understand. May I send you a babblemail?
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 20:53:50
In reply to Re: I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die., posted by garnet71 on February 24, 2009, at 18:05:07
Actually, none of my psychotherapists have been narcissists. These other people I came to know were actually clients of mine when I instructed exercise at a health club. I guess there are vocations that attract narcissists, but I don't know what they are. I have to imagine, though, that given the tools of a psychologist, a narcissist can do some real damage.
- Scott
Posted by backseatdriver on February 25, 2009, at 9:57:25
In reply to Re: I am hopeless, helpless, and want to die. » garnet71, posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 20:53:50
Hey -
I think I need to express a clarification: For *me*, those "antennae" we're talking about are significantly connected to empathy. The way I see it, and your mileage may vary: No antenna, no capacity for empathy. The "antennae" are necessary but not sufficient.
I don't think empathy is all-good. I think it is a double-edged sword. I think genuinely empathic people can be destructive as well as helpful. Two examples:
1. Even genuinely empathic interaction can produce an addictive high that makes people seek it compulsively, at whatever cost to others. At which point it's still empathy but it is damaging. (This, I think, is an instance of the "vampire" phenomenon.)
2. Being the subject of another's empathic perception can feel shaming. One feels exposed. It is a delicate interaction. A really good therapist can acknowledge and contain the shame as well as make you feel understood and "seen".
I like the "chameleon" metaphor -- this strikes me as exactly right.
Yours,
BSD
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