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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 11:12:40
that seems to be getting worse rather than better. It concerns how I feel about my relationship with my T. There are two opposite poles in terms of how I experience him and our relationship. Try as I might, the two "realities" never seem to get any closer to each other, much less become integrated. Black and white.
At one pole, I am able to recognize, and take in internally, my T's warmth and caring, our strong connection, his helpfulness and good will, the great lengths he has gone for me, affection between us, even the quirky or irritating things about our relationship. At the other pole, I experience him as this person who is cold, artificial and uncaring, dismissing and disdainful of me, who's only in this for the money and who forgets about me the minute I walk out the door. This is completely unlike him, and it seems like a stranger inside me who seems determined to paint such a dark picture. I can't keep on working in therapy, as I have been, with this "stranger" tugging at my sleeve, demanding to be heard. My T and I have covered this ground many times, but still don't understand exactly WHAT it is that demands to be heard.
I know that many or most patients experience such ambivalence at one time or another about their T's. The major problem here is that this mistrustful part remains completely untouchable, almost like someone else. It is like arguments going on inside my head; I can hear and respond to one "voice" or the other but not both. It was a major problem early in therapy (admittedly when I was a complete basket case) but then subsided, became less important as I worked on other things. Then recently, despite several years of good therapy and lots of progress, it returned with a vengeance. It seems completely resistant to my T's positive words or actions. Sometimes I feel there are three in the room him, me, and someone who is sitting back, resistant, suspicious, challenging. Anyone see Lord of the Rings and that memorable scene where, while the hobbits were sleeping, Gollum argues with his "other self" about whether to be nice to the kind hobbit or kill him?
Sometimes I find myself wanting to quit therapy to avoid the internal conflict. My first post here talked about an impasse that I thought was about my T, but now I suspect that the impasse is within me instead.My T and I have talked about this problem ad nauseum but haven't figured out how to neutralize or integrate "the stranger." Lately I have begun to insist that what I need is for my T to be more real with me, more and more emotional disclosure, to help me block out this other voice (transference?). The last session we had before I went away was extremely tense for both of us, as I just kept going on with this and he was increasingly frustrated and exasperated because he just didn't know what he could say or do in response to my distress. That last session was about 3 weeks ago.
Now I see him again tomorrow. I am terribly anxious about seeing him again. Not because I think he's angry but because after sessions where this conflict has dominated, I tend to fall apart afterwards and dissociate, which is scary and painful. Ultimately I don't think he can help me until I can shed more light on what's going on inside me. But the more I try to figure it out, the more it scuttles away from me and I just can't catch hold of it :(
Posted by backseatdriver on June 30, 2008, at 12:47:24
In reply to I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 11:12:40
Dear Lucie,
I think it is just so hard to believe in love. It's invisible, it can't be counted or measured, it leaves no trace except what it leaves inside you, me, all of us. Which, sadly, is a lot of disappointment and hurt, otherwise we wouldn't be here or in therapy.
I think some lucky people feel loved when other people do love them; they accurately perceive other people's positive intentions and dispositions toward them. I wonder it this must be like, to feel securely loved, to feel certainty about it.
I have gathered from your other posts that your T is taking a vacation soon. Is that right? Could the prospect of the separation be the trigger that is bringing the "stranger" into the room?
Yours,
The Backseat Driver (and my Stranger, too - it seems I am almost never without this irritating dude, grr...)
Posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2008, at 12:58:15
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy..., posted by backseatdriver on June 30, 2008, at 12:47:24
Above sounds very possible. I just wonder if you do what I sometimes do with my pdoc try not to think of the things that are not good and they return with a vengence when we realize the first time we were right and are looking for help so badly that we just don't recognize it till it comes back. Now this is a very wild guess and theory. Ignore if not pertaining to you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 13:20:47
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy..., posted by backseatdriver on June 30, 2008, at 12:47:24
BSD, thanks so much for the quick reply. You certainly hit on some good points.Yes, I do have trouble feeling love that others offer me and envy those without this problem. I beat myself up on occasion for missing out on love that I know my T is offering. But "the stranger" just won't let me forget that pesky pay-for-hire thing. Seems ironic too, because when I am well enough to be able to feel loved, I won't need to see him! With my DH many of the same problems exist, only with my kids do I feel reciprocal unconditional love.
And about the separation issue, that's probably true too. I just spent 3 weeks away, then we have about a month together, then he's away for vacation.
And, to make matters worse, for financial reasons I'm going to have to decrease starting next week from 2/week, as we've been doing for the past few years, to 1/week. I'm anxious about that too, don't know which will be easier. And I'm not REALLY sure whether I'm anxious about cutting down the weekly sessions or (subconsciously, since the official reason is finances) cutting down because I'm anxious.
-Lucie
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 13:26:15
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 13:20:47
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 13:30:42
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2008, at 12:58:15
Philippa, also a good point. It is certainly possible I'm supressing (repressing? never sure of the difference) negative feelings about the relationship, other than those related to abandonment. Something to consider. Thanks for writing.
-Lucie
Posted by raisinb on June 30, 2008, at 13:49:51
In reply to I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 11:12:40
I've had the same problem in therapy for three years--sometimes, I experience her as warm and loving--at others, she seems to be just going through the motions at best.
Without knowing your T, I think there are probably a couple of things going on. He's probably more present and warm some days. Added to that, you're extremely vulnerable when you go in, so every little detail, every shift in tone, becomes magnified. Plus, as you've detailed (very eloquently, I might add), you have a very strong internal conflict. Though you want to believe he cares, you also can't and keep demanding more proof.
I think it's positive that you've identified this challenging, mistrustful part as something you don't want as part of you. That shows a lot of progress. I don't have any amazing insights. I think it just takes time, working together, more and more work, until you get through things.
On the other hand, if you figure out a quick fix, let me know :)
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 14:45:57
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Lucie Lu, posted by raisinb on June 30, 2008, at 13:49:51
Thank you, rainsinb, you were pretty eloquent yourself :)
-Lucie
Posted by rskontos on June 30, 2008, at 15:28:53
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Lucie Lu, posted by raisinb on June 30, 2008, at 13:49:51
LucieLu
I just wanted to tell you I am not qualified to offer any solutions as I have only been in therapy with my T for 6 months and still can't trust him past this resolution of my crisis mode which he helped me through. Now to get to the next stage I am struggling.
I understand the dissociation though. I just wanted you to know I feel your pain.
rsk
Posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 15:56:32
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy...LucieLU, posted by rskontos on June 30, 2008, at 15:28:53
Posted by Dinah on June 30, 2008, at 17:27:08
In reply to I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 11:12:40
I don't in any way want to be suggestive, but have you read "The Myth of Sanity" ? Martha Stout talks about the spectrum of dissociation short of DID.
Posted by star008 on June 30, 2008, at 22:11:30
In reply to I have a problem in therapy..., posted by Lucie Lu on June 30, 2008, at 11:12:40
lucie, do u think it might be a part of you that doesn't want to work on things?? The mistrustful part might have come back to resist your T's efforts. Maybe that part of you comes out when things are getting too intense and it makes you shut down. I have trouble all the time with resistance.
The mistrustful one might just be there to protect you. I don't ahe any clear answers for you but i think it will pass and probably come back again another time..
Posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 19:00:18
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Lucie Lu, posted by Dinah on June 30, 2008, at 17:27:08
Dinah - Thanks for posting. No I hadn't read that book but just checked it out on amazon and it looks very interesting. Will reserve it from the library. I agree that there is a spectrum that is based upon the use of dissociation as a defense so it should be an interesting read.
And no, you aren't being suggestive but I am curious, did you make that suggestion based on the fact that I tend to dissociate after some sessions or because I experience "the stranger" as "not-me"? Just curious. When I was younger I would have been diagnosed (if they had done that then) with DID, now just have a few stray symptoms left, mostly some amnesia and identity issues. My T discourages me from thinking too much about diagnosis so I haven't worried too much about it. But I do like reading books about things I experience or have experienced, so thanks for the suggestion.
Lucie
Posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 19:16:19
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Lucie Lu, posted by star008 on June 30, 2008, at 22:11:30
Star - Oh, I hadn't thought of that, the "mistrustful one" as protector, it's an interesting idea. I do feel these days that while part of me is trying really hard to go forward, something equally strong is holding me back. I feel like that fictional creature (from Dr Doolittle?) the push-me-pull-you, which has two heads on opposite sides of the body, and when it tries to move both heads go in opposite directions - that's me all right (lol)
Lucie
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2008, at 20:57:24
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Dinah, posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 19:00:18
Neither really. I suggested it because I found my answers there. I used to be really confused about my opposite feelings about things. Not ambivalent, indeed rather consistent, but opposite.
Now I understand, and it makes life much easier. If my therapist were to diagnose me, he says it hypothetically would probably be DD-NOS. Labels don't mean anything of course. But understanding why I do the things I do means a whole lot to me.
Nothing I'd ever read had really resonated until that book. It might be interesting to read it again and see if it still resonates.
Posted by star008 on July 1, 2008, at 22:28:34
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » star008, posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 19:16:19
Lucie..
try not to worry about it too much. i think most people have a part that wants to go ahead and one that wants to hold back. some of dissociate more than others. you would probably know it if you were ddnos or did..
Posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 23:12:02
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy..., posted by star008 on July 1, 2008, at 22:28:34
Star-
Sorry, I misspoke before, I didn't mean DID I did (no pun intended) mean like DD-NOS. When I was younger I had some but not all of the criteria for DID, but I have recovered some since then, with age, reasonably stable life experiences, and *years* of therapy. And I certainly don't mean to make light of experiences like those I know you've had, and I know they are awful. The ones I've had have been scary and upsetting, just fortunately far fewer than they used to be.Anyway my T has a (rather frustrating, from my point of view) policy of sorts where he refuses to talk in terms of diagnoses. For the insurance company, he always puts down "depression" - wouldn't you think they'd wonder about him as a therapist if his patient is continually depressed for 6 years?? He says maybe when we're all done we can talk about diagnoses and technical aspects about all our work together, but for now that's not too important. This makes me feel accepted (more than a diagnosis) and it's soothing but sometimes I still feel this cat's curiosity to open his files, even though I know there's no secrets in them ;)
Anyway, you're quite right, there's a push-me-pull-you in everyone. Otherwise the character wouldn't have meant anything to anyone, I suppose.
Thanks for posting,
-Lucie
Posted by rskontos on July 3, 2008, at 12:54:48
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » star008, posted by Lucie Lu on July 1, 2008, at 23:12:02
LucieLu,
I know for myself I was obsessed with diagnosis for a while and still I questioned it until I read a book recently and saw too much of myself in three of the cases. At least my younger and some of today's self. I guess it is just the nature of human's to what to know why when something feels wrong what it is exactly. For me, I know i have to know why and to read helps. Triggery sometimes but overall it is a must. And my t accepts my quest for knowledge. He doesn't take it as I don't believe in his abilities just that i need more to own my own recovery or to at least take an active role. Just like when my flashbacks got too much to take I shut them down. He allowed me to decide. I silly enough have a new theory of my own DX to discuss with him. He will tolerate it I believe but it is for my own internal voices I believe. So he listens. Which isn't that ultimately sometimes is what was missing someone early on that listened, supported and believed in us?
I have written 4 previous posts to you. I just had a problem getting my thoughts together. They still aren't right but anyway, here it is.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on July 3, 2008, at 13:01:39
In reply to Re: I have a problem in therapy... » Lucie Lu, posted by rskontos on July 3, 2008, at 12:54:48
I do totally understand the impasse in therapy. I feel that is exactly where I am. To go further or deeper to my demons or leave well enough alone. I feel better now, yeah I still dissociate alot but I know what it is and why to a certain extent. No the memories are still vague but I know something about them. Very unsettling. I am not sure I should or need to go further. I am on a new med that seems to be helping my energy level. I feel a certain level of new committment to life in general so why go back into that deep pit of sadness. So impasse has arisen.
I do get that. And yet could this be the interlude between a new growth between me and my therapist. I just don't know.
Maybe this is when the therapist needs to take over and we need to take a backseat. I am just uncertain.
This is why I did not answer more in depth. I am confused and did not want to confuse anyone else with my confusion and yet,
I feel better than I have. A double edged sword in some aspects.Take care my friend. I wish you luck.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on July 5, 2008, at 19:28:20
In reply to Re: one more thing lucie lu, posted by rskontos on July 3, 2008, at 13:01:39
You know something, rsk? I have the feeling that both you and I, as stuck on the fence as we both have been feeling, might be just on the verge of making some new and very positive changes within ourselves. Maybe something will just happen, or occur to us, and we'll find ourselves suddenly making real progress! No I don't have a magic 8 ball, just intuition :)
Thanks for your thoughts.
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on July 5, 2008, at 19:34:24
In reply to Re: one more thing lucie lu, posted by rskontos on July 3, 2008, at 13:01:39
p.s. I think your T/pdoc sounds pretty cool.
Good luck to you too!
-LL
Posted by rskontos on July 5, 2008, at 19:48:44
In reply to Re: one more thing » rskontos, posted by lucie lu on July 5, 2008, at 19:34:24
This is the end of the thread.
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