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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 12:12:20
***Recently I read that when we internalize our therapist to the degree where they become our safe base, we can then begin to confront the really painful feelings of childhood neglect. Studies are showing that children who are neglected are often as damaged as children who are abused. Neglect means you didn't have anyone help you figure out who you are, or mirror to you that you are wonderful. It also means that we didn't have anyone to help with that huge range of emotions - happy and sad and angry and joyful. We begin to limit ourselves because it was all we could handle feeling when we were younger, because we had to feel it on our own. It is a wound that is hard to close and sits inside in such a deep way.****
Are there studies about abused and neglected?
This really impacted me. We were both. I find I have limited myself, nor do I know how to handle the range of emotions nor do I like the range of emotions. I told my T the other day, I was happiest not being in the emotional mind set, I prefer to dissociate at times because I can't handle emotions. I like being numb to feelings because quite frankly I can't handle them.
And to this day, my father likes to point out how unwonderful I still am. He is either neglectful, or hateful. I was guilted into calling him on Father's Day and we had a fight because he lashed out and I finally stopped taking it. Father's Day or no Father's Day.Both of my parents were neglectful. My mother was the abusive one. And when she wasn't that she was neglectful.
Never loving. I don't remember a single loving embrace from either of them. But then I did dissociate most of my childhood. So I could be in fog about that. Who the heck knows.
Daisym, if you know where any of these studies are, I would like to read them. Thanks
rsk
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 12:27:47
In reply to Daisym's comment made me think, posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 12:12:20
I know I have had neglect, and I am sure it had a huge impact on a lot of things.
I remember being embarrassed because I didn't have any clothes to wear that were clean, and I only had one pair of socks. No dental care until I was doing it myself at 21. I was never taken to the doctor because of the signs of physical abuse, so I would have to suffer severe what we know now as asthma coughing fits that would sprain my breast muscles.
The house was always dirty, the bathroom disgusting. And the house always had some "improvement" going on or you could say my mom got bored and would decide to take down a wall or something.
There was more to this, I know I didn't have the proper nutrition, or clothing, and my shelter was hell on earth. They say these things are the basic needs for a child, so yeah, neglect is very harmful.
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 12:59:30
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers***, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 12:27:47
Heah did we grow up in the same house my abuse was verbal but my Mother was sick and the meds did it hence my med phobia. I just try and forget about it and when my kids were growing up did the opposite of what my Mother did praised only the positive and ignored negatives. For their self-esteem. Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 15:55:19
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers***, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 12:27:47
It is funny, Hf, your mother was a slob and mine was the opposite. She was a cleaning fool. She was OCD when it came to cleaning and we were her little tin soldiers. And we better do it right or we had to do it over and over again. We had to clean our little bitty house EVERY day. That is cleaning the bathroom, the bedrooms, the kitchen everything, vacuuming, dusting, etc every day over and over until it was perfect. And on Saturday before we were allowed to leave the house from the time we were little bitty kids. I don't remember how young since I dissociated thing. But I know we did it, I just don't remember. We cleaned the kitchen every single night. She cooked we cleaned until we were old enough to cook too. And on top of that she had a maid that came in twice a week to help!!! What the heck did she do, well she ironed everything in that house. Sheets, towels, clothes, you name it was ironed.
Yep, you could have eaten off our floor. No germs allowed.
But we were neglected all the same, excepted for being yelled at to do something. Does that count? Do you think.
No wonder I hate housework to this day.
rsk
I am sorry for how bad your mom was, I know how badly she treated you and still does.
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 15:56:00
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers*** » Happyflower, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 12:59:30
I am sorry Phillipa for your mom's treatment. Glad you broke the cycle.
rsk
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:37:04
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers*** » Happyflower, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 12:59:30
Yeah, maybe you are a sister or something, I know I have relatives that I have never met. Good to hear you were a good parent. You son is awesome.
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:43:23
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers***, posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 15:55:19
I think both extremes are really hard. I believe you can't be a very good mother if you have a perfect house. Something will suffer in the end either the mother or the kids.
I just remember seeing my mom watch soap operas all day laying on the couch and going to the fridge when she was bored. Maybe she had depression too? I don't like cleaning either so, so I think it just sucks no matter what type of household you came from. lol
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:56:33
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers*** » Phillipa, posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 15:56:00
Posted by meme3842 on June 17, 2008, at 19:07:14
In reply to Daisym's comment made me think, posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 12:12:20
I think that Bowlby's orginal research was about children who were negelected and how it affected their ability to attach to people. I recently read an article about the long term affects of neglect, but I can't remember the author's name for the life of me. But the article did mention that physical and emotional neglect impacts a person's development--psychologically as well as intellectually.
I don't like to think of my childhood as having been neglected. I had all my physical needs met, like food and a place to sleep. Emotional needs as well as a sense of safety was a little scarce, and I can see that affecting my life now.
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 20:32:38
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers*** » Phillipa, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:37:04
Happyflower thanks and he is more than awesome. Love Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 20:49:47
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment made me think, posted by meme3842 on June 17, 2008, at 19:07:14
Meme, I did not think of it either as being anything, but then again I am very dissociative, think DD, so I feel I just woke up from being in a fog. And until my therapists told me that the way I grew up was not even close to normal I thought that was the way mom's and dad's were. I had a place to eat and sleep, they just weren't safe nor secure from day to day. As far back as a toddler.
I will look for Bowlby's research. I found some today. I don't attach to people. It was hard to attach to my children even. And as for my H, he is a loner. My p-doc says that I am never in relationships wereby I am not in charge. I guess it is a must for me. I never looked at that way. But in charge or not, I still don't stay attached. The minute I leave I am gone. And I never look back. So I guess the research is right. I had not read any or thought about it before so Daisym's comment really hit home.
rsk
Do you talk about how it affected you or still affects you?
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 20:56:03
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment ***neglect triggers***, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:43:23
So true so true!
My T is really trying to get me to use my brain for something other than a hat rack at the moment. I don't clean all day. And my drive to do more is getting better.
I can't say I am better though I still dissociate at the drop of a hat (too many hat words) but I am thinking of doing some with my self at last.
My t is really pushing. I did have a personality test done. But I think I snowed the guy although I never official met him. My personality test revealed I was well adjusted. Ha. LOL.....
And I was afraid it would reveal I had no personality. The guy said my test was the most consistent throughout the test he had seen in awhile. In terms of what i would be good at doing. So I am considering it.
And with my T asking me what steps have you taken. I guess it is nice to finally have someone believe in you. funny it is two perfect strangers of which you paid to do a service isn't it.
Not your family but strangers. I would never have thought. No wonder I have attachment issues.
rsk
Posted by meme3842 on June 18, 2008, at 0:27:59
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment made me think » meme3842, posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 20:49:47
rsk,
Another author who wrote a really good book on attachment theory in general is Robert Karen. The book is called Becoming Attached. It talks about our early relationships and how they are a blueprint for later relationships.Yeah, I have talked about how neglect may have affected me in therapy. I mean, I know it has, given that I am in my thirties, single, with no kids. So my theory is that I am pretty well guarded and if I grew up that way, then it has probably carried over today. I probably don't trust or love people easily, because they may or may not be there tomorrow. At the same time, I don't want to say that my pathetic life is directly related to the fact that I may or may not have been neglected. It could be personality too--me being shy and socially anxious. I don't know. I guess I would feel really bad to say that i was neglected, because I know that given the circumstances my mother did what she could, and that she loved us in her weird inconsistant ways. So I guess I would feel guilty to say that I was neglected. I used to disociate a lot, but my previous therapist was really good about teaching me to ground myself. So now I daydream, which is entirely different, and more fun. :)
Posted by Daisym on June 18, 2008, at 1:52:19
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment made me think, posted by meme3842 on June 18, 2008, at 0:27:59
Attachment theory is based on studies of abused and neglected children - or the children of abused and neglected children. Almost any CSA trauma work will site the studies. If you want, look up the work of Bruce Perry or Daniel Stern or Dan Siegel. All brain research/development stuff. Bruce Perry in particular does the trauma research. His most recent book is really, really good but a very hard read - lots of stories that trigger. "The Boy who was raised as a Dog." I like Karen's work too but it is a tiny bit dated - but the premise is there.
And when I talk about neglect, I'm talking about emotional neglect mostly. Children might grow up with "everything" and still be neglected. And sometimes parents just don't have the capacity so we can have compassion for them and understand it - like with depressed mothers - but we can't ignore the effects on the child.
Posted by rskontos on June 18, 2008, at 11:38:38
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment made me think, posted by Daisym on June 18, 2008, at 1:52:19
Daisym, I know my mother tried, she herself was the victim of abuse, and it is hard for me to think about that and think about how it affected her children. The effects of it was so hard on all three of us. But on the same hand, I know now she was abused, all through my childhood I did not, she did do things that is so unthinkable to me now as a mother myself so my rational mind says ok she was abused but my emotional mind says why did she not want to protect her own children. In any case, I try to think she loved me, and I guess maybe she tried in her own way but as sick as she was it is hard to know what she truly felt.
I have a hard time with my grandparents and her extended family, for they knew how she was treated, the effects and they did not try to make it right for us. So we were neglected by them as well.
oh well, sigh, it is what it is.
I will look into the works of those you mentioned.
thanks
rsk
Posted by Daisym on June 18, 2008, at 14:30:26
In reply to Re: Daisym's comment made me think » Daisym, posted by rskontos on June 18, 2008, at 11:38:38
Accepting who are parents are, or were, is easier for the adult parts than for the wounded child inside. No matter what the reasons, that child didn't get what she needed. And it is a very sad, very hard place to revisit.
I think it is Annie Rogers who writes about generational grief in her book "Unsayable" This is full of CSA triggers so be careful with it. But she talks about how trauma can be handed down and not just because it is repeated.
This is the end of the thread.
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