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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
We have all written vast numbers of posts about how important our relationships with our Ts are to us. Everyone seems to agree that intangible, non-verbal things are very important in contributing to a "good fit"- and that if we don't have a good fit, we are wasting our time. My T strongly agrees with this, saying that it's a shame that prospective clients don't have better ways of assessing who will be a good match for them. He went so far as to say, recently, that he believed in early self-disclosure on the part of the therapist, so that new clients can make informed decisions about continuing on or trying to see someone else, because (he says) "your therapist is your fate" (!)
The part of this that I'm particularly thinking of right now is: what level of attachment and dependence gives us the best chance of making progress? One of the things I've noticed, having had two analysts, is that my first one brought out intense feelings of closeness, attachment and dependency, but this did not actually translate into getting very much better. Going four or five times a week just seemed to intensify the dependence, so that it became a problem in itself. I thought the frequency and strong feelings would be helpful, but I was wrong. With the second analyst, I can see that he is always trying to strike the proper balance between closeness and relatedness, and independence. We move constantly back and forth between the two- more the way people do in real life. Because I do have a lot of early maternal deprivation, he does not want to see me more than two (or sometimes perhaps three) times a week, lest I regress and get in the grip of too much dependence and longing for the mother I'm never going to be able to have. Having more time to process what happens in the sessions, and to practice solving my problems on my own, seems to be ideal for me. Going every day, as I did with the other analyst, is too much! I guess you have to be healthier to do that!
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:42:59
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
Maybe there's no really good answer to that. Otherwise there wouldn't be so very many types of therapist.
I happened to be checking out Bette Midler's Christmas album when I read this, so instantly "Wind Beneath My Wings" came to mind. Which when translated probably means that the best sort of therapist to me right now is the safe base sort of therapist. Or maybe the help me modulate myself sort of therapist.
Although that isn't entirely correct either. My therapist by nature or training tends to be the teaching sort, I think. If he tried to do that quickly, it would never work with me. But over the years his stories and gentle not quite leading questions and comments have brought changes in the way I think about things. Probably the same sort of changes he aims for a lot quicker in most cases. He usually leaves it to me to figure things out, at least he seems to, and that works well for me. But often enough my brilliant insights into myself sound suspiciously like things he's gently inserted into my consciousness over time.
And there has always been a level of spirituality in our relationship as well.
So maybe some sort of combination of safe base, mother helping her child with self regulation, and jedi master and padawan?
Or maybe not. Maybe that's just what I need to see in him at this point in time.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:44:50
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
I wish, I really wish, I could be a fly on the wall in his brain for a while. Just long enough to see how he sees me and how he sees our relationship.
Posted by Daisym on December 14, 2007, at 0:44:34
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
I agree with Dinah. I don't think one-size fits all, and aren't we lucky that there are so many kinds of therapist for so many different kinds of people?
I recently talked with my therapist about cutting back some, and he was, of course, open to whatever I want to do. But over the course of a few weeks, it seems apparent (again) that when I do that, I lose the connection and I get tied up in knots about not having enough time or working so hard to "feel" him again that we don't get any "work" done. (Although he says, "this is the work of your therapy...continuity of connection and trust") So for me, I need a therapist who can let me connect deeply, be dependent, pull away, be a mess, be great and yes, spend time wanting him to be my mom and rescue me. We talk about this all the time - how sad it is that he can't undo what was done. But you can't imagine how healing it is to hear, "If I had been there, I would have done something. It would have been OK for you to tell me." Once during a conversation like this, I whispered, "but everything would have fallen apart." And he responded, "Yes, it would have." The tears came and I said, "and what then?" He said, "we would have picked up the pieces -- then, instead of now."
Perhaps the right therapist is directly tied to the goals we have and how we define progress.
I do like what your therapist says about being "your fate." When I was wishing I'd done this work earlier, my therapist said, "maybe you were waiting for me..." :)
I'm glad you have found such a good match and can see the progress. It is nice to hear.
Posted by Maria01 on December 14, 2007, at 9:53:56
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:42:59
I think it's a matter of individual preference. My present T is very interactive; I've told her things that I have never told any other T, so something must be "clicking." Sure, she has boundaries, but they're not rigid. It's cutomary for me to give her a hug at the end of the hour, and I see no problem with it. Other people who need firmer boundaries may be put off by it.
Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with a the formal analyst type. I worked with one very briefly and felt pathologized more than anything else.
The "right" approach is the one that's working for the person in therapy. =)
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 12:04:08
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
Thanks Twinleaf as mine only wants to see me once every three weeks and learn independance as my Mother died when I was l7 and was sick my whole life and I brought myself up. So it's a good thing to only see her once every three weeks. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by muffled on December 17, 2007, at 22:05:58
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
FASCINATING questions Twinleaf!!!
But I reckon there's as many answers as there are types of people.
And then I would guess while T's tend toward a certain 'style' perhaps within their techniques, I also think they modulate and 'do therapy' as they go along to fit the clients best interests.
I thinbk the very best thing my T has done is stick with me and be unfailingly kind. Hard though I find this.
We also have an agreement that is extreemly important to me, in that we both need to be HONEST as we can. She NEEDS to be honest or how can I trust her and not second guess her.
So I would say our T relationship has had a sameness at times, a repetative cycle of needyness and not so needyness,and yet ongoingling changing and growing.
Its not been perfect, and that comforts me too.
Therapy.
I dunno....
M
Posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 22:31:03
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most?, posted by twinleaf on December 13, 2007, at 21:29:30
Muffled, that's such a good answer! It's wonderful hearing about your T. She sounds so great- as you say, not perfect, but so honest and caring. And it's wonderful to hear that you feel your relationship with her is constantly changing and growing. How long have you been with her? (I've forgotten)
I think what I was getting at is: is there such a thing as too much dependency? Is there a sort of balance between dependence and independence which is best for most of us, or is it completely different for each person? Are there people who have had the xperience of being sort of "taken apart and put back together "in therapy- becoming more regressed and childlike, and then getting reintegrated in a healthier way? I don't know if anyone has posted about that, exactly. I think my first analyst was trying to do that, but for me, it wasn't a good idea.
Posted by muffled on December 17, 2007, at 22:57:43
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl, posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 22:31:03
> Muffled, that's such a good answer! It's wonderful hearing about your T. She sounds so great- as you say, not perfect, but so honest and caring. And it's wonderful to hear that you feel your relationship with her is constantly changing and growing. How long have you been with her? (I've forgotten)
*ummm dunno how long exactly!!! Mebbe 2-3 yrs off and on I guess.
>
> I think what I was getting at is: is there such a thing as too much dependency? Is there a sort of balance between dependence and independence which is best for most of us, or is it completely different for each person? Are there people who have had the xperience of being sort of "taken apart and put back together "in therapy- becoming more regressed and childlike, and then getting reintegrated in a healthier way? I don't know if anyone has posted about that, exactly. I think my first analyst was trying to do that, but for me, it wasn't a good idea.
>
*Dependancy.....I'm not big on being dependant....however there has certainly been times where I have really...hmmm, well, I not sure, but I would 'lose' my T in my head and that would really bother me, and I would be really wishing(ughhh...needing?) for that connection again....
I guess unless its necessary for healing....I cannot understand too much dependance cuz it frikken HURTS!!!! It causes great confusion and much emotions that are uncomfortable....I HATED feeling 'needy'.
Ultimately T's are trying to work themselves OUT of a job...and launch us forth, able to cope with what life can and will chuck at us....
So, its sure is an interesting thot.
My T is more CBT and personcentered etc. So she very much tries to work WITH me. We are leanrning TOGETHER. I kinda in the middle of some crapola, so I will have to refrain comment for now as to how this seconda part is working...
I dunno bout regressed....
I have younger aspects of myself...
I am of the thot that I need to deal with them....
But just to make them content, to make them see what is truth. They beleive so many lies. They just kids and dunno.
So thats all I wish to do.
Achieve a measure of inner peace, so I am no longer 'haunted', and blow up upon occassion. So I can be less confused, so I can think, so I can have some inner peace, so maybe I can do some good in this world.
Steada just being deadwood.
Sigh.
Dunno if this what you were looking for?
Interesting ideas.
M
Posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2007, at 23:18:52
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl, posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 22:31:03
Twinleaf there are two parts of me the healthy independant one and the one who is very needy. But my therapist won't listen to that one pushes me out into the world and says do it yourself. Phillipa
Posted by sunnydays on December 17, 2007, at 23:26:17
In reply to What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl, posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 22:31:03
It's an interesting question, one I'm not sure is answerable. For me I detest feeling so needy and dependent on my T. I feel like I must be such a burden to him and that I'm 'bad' when I email him too much or something. But I've never seen him get fed up and leave. And that's something. I think the dependency is a stage that I need to go through to grow up. Live through the childlike feelings, and move past them. I can see it happening, I just hope it continues. I have changed so much already, that I really can see myself being taken apart and put back together, so to speak.
sunnydays
Posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 23:27:10
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl » twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2007, at 23:18:52
Maybe get a new therapist? I wouldn't like that at all.
Posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 23:37:15
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl » twinleaf, posted by sunnydays on December 17, 2007, at 23:26:17
That is so good to hear, Sunny- that you're aware of allowing yourself to become very dependent and childlike, and that, over time, it has really helped you change. That was what I was wondering- whether people in therapy might get "regressed" to more childlike states and just get stuck there, or whether it could be an important part of the experience of growing and changing.
I think it's just ideal when it works the way it has for you. Whether it does or not probably has a lot to do with the kind of connection we are able to make with the therapists we find.
Posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 23:52:35
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? muffl » twinleaf, posted by muffled on December 17, 2007, at 22:57:43
Well, yes. it's kind of different if you look at it from the point of view that you have inner kids who are sort of separate. I guess they have been feeling the same for a long time, but haven't had enough of a chance to say how they feel. It's different from when the feelings are more covered up.
Still, maybe the times when you felt needy and dependent were important, because they helped you deepen your trust in your therapist. And you may have grown out of that stage, which is great..
I definitely know that awful feeling of kind of "losing" one's therapist in one's mind. It used to happen to me a lot, but much less now. In the beginning, I couldn't remember what he looked like, or what his voice sounded like between sessions- I really didn't know who I was going to! I know this is from not having a mother when I was an infant. For me, just getting his face and voice firmly in my brain was a wonderful step.
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2007, at 18:45:35
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? » Phillipa, posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 23:27:10
Twinleaf I don't I get scared when I have to go there and can't relax at all she reminds me of a scolding Mother or authority figue. So maybe tomorrow will be the last time? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2007, at 18:49:31
In reply to Re: What kind of T relationship helps the most? » muffled, posted by twinleaf on December 17, 2007, at 23:52:35
Twinleaf that post to muffled reminded me of what a pdoc said to me that I had separation issues as as a child if they see the Mother walk around the corner out of site they no longer exist. He had said it was Melanie Klein. Object constancy. Phillipa
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