![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
At one point during my therapy session yesterday, my T asked what does healing mean to me. My mind went blank for a few moments. Healing. I finally muttered out that it is if a bone breaks and then eventually gets healed or if you have some kind of sickness then take a medicine and get better. We talked some and then she asked then you see it as a curing. And in my mind I guess yes I kind of equated healing with curing. Then after some more discussion, I came up with the visual and example then of an open cut (a big one) that eventually closes up and there is a scar.
She pressed a little more and asked what would it feel like or mean that something is healed. I answered back that there would be no more pain. And this time, yes, I was thinking of emotional pain. I told her I would think on that some more, on what healing means to me. I'm still thinking about it.
I thought I would just share here. So many are going through their own pain in therapy and life in general and I thought I would put it out there for each to think about what healing means to yourself and what curing means to yourself in what you may be going through and to maybe also examine what has healed or is on its way to healing and what has yet to heal. Actually that last part I am going to be thinking for myself.
So, just a thought: healing or cure. There is a difference. In emotional terms, I am still figuring it out.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 19:57:52
In reply to Healing versus Curing, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
Is it like the difference between taking antibiotics for a bone infection versus setting a broken bone? In the first case the infection would go away as if it were never there, and in the second, you'd always have a broken bone. Just a healed broken bone. It would be in xrays. If it's whacked again it might break easier?
I'm guessing cause is also a factor. Healing implies trauma and recovery?
Are there any other choices?
I never really think of myself as in need of healing. Or eligible for a cure. I see education being helpful for me. And I see myself as having a flaw, like along tectonic cracks. It's not something you heal or cure. It's more something you manage.
Like you manage a chronic long term illness. I have diabetes. I will never be cured or healed, but with luck and hard work (which would take a miracle I confess) I can learn to manage it.
So healing versus curing versus managing?
Posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 20:31:48
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » lovelorn, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 19:57:52
>Is it like the difference between taking antibiotics for a bone infection versus setting a broken bone? In the first case the infection would go away as if it were never there
It is interesting the way you put that Dinah. As if it were never there. My T did mention that cure implies a "reversing" of condition or situation, almost like it was never there. In terms of the emotional trauma or situation that happened, that is not possible. It did happen, there is no "reversing" that. It's done and in the past.
>Healing implies trauma and recovery
I like how you used recovery. I think that applies in what I am trying to understand for myself.
>Like you manage a chronic long term illness. I have diabetes. I will never be cured or healed...
That is another great perspective to provide, the idea of managing. I think with some mental illnesses or afflications it is indeed a matter of managing. In terms of psychological/emotional trauma or abuse issues, I am not so sure the object is to manage it, though there is a certain amount of management required in how to access those traumas with the aim of healing or, as you said, recovery.
>So healing versus curing versus managing?
Well, for my purposes I am contemplating healing and curing. I know I wrote in Llurpsie's thread on the 'F' word that it is best to go to a dictionary when trying to figure out the meaning of words or concepts. I will be doing that in terms of what healing means and what curing means - before I do though I want to explore it a bit in terms of my particular trauma and my emotions and thoughts surrounding it. Emotions are not so black and white sometimes and in terms of "healing" in the psychological sense it can be very subjective. But still I will be looking up the words after I've given it some more personal thought on what it means to me specifically. This would be a case of perhaps different definitions applying.
Thanks for your comments, Dinah.
Posted by fallsfall on December 13, 2007, at 20:36:58
In reply to Healing versus Curing, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
It almost seems to me like healing is something that I can do ("I healed"), whereas curing is something that is done to me ("I was cured").
Like Dinah, I think that mental illness is managed. We learn ways to compensate, we learn new skills to function better, but I don't think (at least in my case) that it will ever go away.
Posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 20:49:25
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » lovelorn, posted by fallsfall on December 13, 2007, at 20:36:58
Hi fallsfall
>Like Dinah, I think that mental illness is managed. We learn ways to compensate, we learn new skills to function better, but I don't think (at least in my case) that it will ever go away.
What is your mental illness? In terms of what you say that you don't think it will ever go away, well there are some mental illnesses that are just like having diabetes or some other condition - they do not go completely away. They are managed.
When I spoke with my T about what healing means, I did also say that I don't know if some (psychological or emotional) part will ever be healed or can be healed. And I have to think on what that means to me too.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:02:04
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » fallsfall, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 20:49:25
I know the question wasn't directed to me, but in my case I'm technically diagnosed with some sort of anxiety disorder with a smidge of mood disorder tossed in.
I prefer to say I have the nervous system of an overly inbred cocker spaniel. Mind, it needn't be a cocker spaniel, or even overly inbred. But in some ways it captures it perfectly. My nervous system is finely tuned, to put it kindly. Which has its good and bad points. And is in need of management.
Posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 21:13:12
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » lovelorn, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:02:04
Hi Dinah,
Well, nice to learn a bit more about you. Your description of the cocker spaniel gave me laugh.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2007, at 21:28:35
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » Dinah, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 21:13:12
I'm lobbying for its inclusion in the DSM-VI. Probably too late for V.
:-)
Posted by Daisym on December 14, 2007, at 0:01:52
In reply to Healing versus Curing, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
This is interesting to think about - kind of like the client vs. patient debate.
I agree with everyone that "cure" implies a fix of some kind. But it also implies a self assessment of "being better" - of no longer needing "treatment." I think depression can be cured. I think cancer can be cured. I think being all better though does not mean you never were sick or afflicted.
"Healing" implies, to me, a time-dependent process, in which conditions come together to facilitate the closing of a wound.
I think therapy can both "cure" and "heal." Sometimes someone has a condition, like agoraphobia, that is cured with therapy, and probably other stuff. Sometimes the walking wounded find healing within the theraputic relationship. Sometimes the therapy space itself is the necessary carved out time for healing.
My therapist uses "healing" when he talks about my progress in therapy. It makes me *sigh* because I want him to cure me.
Posted by seldomseen on December 14, 2007, at 6:42:56
In reply to Healing versus Curing, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
I have a lot of childhood trauma, so I find myself using the word recovery when talking about my therapy - as though I am trying to get back something that was lost.
However, I think a better term might be replacement rather than recovery. What happened happened and I think I'm forever changed as a result. I can replace that pain with some measure of peace and happiness, but what is gone is gone.
I also have comorbid depression which I view as a completely different animal than childhood trauma. To me, depression is a relapsing and remitting disorder with no cure.
Fortunately, I've been remitting more than relapsing as of late.
Seldom
Posted by antigua3 on December 14, 2007, at 7:09:47
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing, posted by Daisym on December 14, 2007, at 0:01:52
I was struck by your comment that you think depression can be cured, especially since every pdoc I've seen has told me that my depression is something I will have to deal with my entire life (and be on meds, but I'm not sure I believe that).
I've been told that once you have one major depressive incident, you may or may not have another. but if you have another, you are so much more likely (don't remember the %), to have a third, and then even more likely to have a fourth if you have a third, and then you're stuck for life. I have depression, which will rear its ugly head again and again. My strong bouts occur about every seven years.
That doesn't mean to me, and here we go to lovelorn's discussion on healing, curing and Dinah's managing, that my depression can't be treated so it's so debilitating. And as more of my trauma is resolved, I'm healed more. I don't believe curing is in the cards for me because of my history, but I can heal and manage.
This may sound pessimistic, but I see it as realistic.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on December 14, 2007, at 11:15:44
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » Daisym, posted by antigua3 on December 14, 2007, at 7:09:47
HI guys, here is my pitiful insight in this subject. In T we touched on this since we went over my DX again. I think I am crazy since my whatevers I still hate to voice it took over during therapy and made me feel so weird. And she said that I could be whole. This was her word. Now she has used healed I think. Of course my short term memory is shot right now because of the dissociation still going on. but I am not really believing her but she insisted that I could be whole. That we are laying a foundation to build up the one that should have been built when I was a child. Not many inside my head believe this and adult me has a hard time with it as lately I am feeling too messed up but I digress. I don't feel whole I am too split. So I think whole to me would mean healed not cured as something was taken from me a long time ago and I have just existed since. I spent so much time hiding this. I know I have an illness so I guess cured is right but it seems so cancery you know. And healed seems so Tammy Faye Baker and that other one the be healed guy. So maybe for me I need to go with managed. Yes manage is what I have to do with all the parts of me so that is the best I can see at this point. Maybe further along in my progress, what a hard word too, I could see healed or cured. So I think it also maybe matters where you are in the process too. JMHO and my slanted vision as my therapist is making me realize more and more how slanted I see things. I don't really think I think like an adult anymore. More like a disgruntled child. :( Sorry again I digress which is why I have tried not to post today. r
Posted by DAisym on December 14, 2007, at 13:09:44
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » Daisym, posted by antigua3 on December 14, 2007, at 7:09:47
The debater in me would counter - "just because something comes back doesn't mean it wasn't cured. Colds are frequent but each individual cold begins and ends and is ultimately cured. The next cold is unto itself." If you go about seven years between bouts, even a cancer would be declared "cured" at that rate. So it is totally subjective.
I think, like most diseases, depression has a spectrum. There are types of depression, like post-partum depression or situational depression, that can be cured. There are other types, like chronic, likely chemically (brain) driven, kinds that go into remission and are managed.
What I still find fascinating is the research that shows over and over again that depression responds "best" to both medications and therapy. If it is purely biological, why not just medication? If it is purely psychological, why not therapy? We, as a species, (but probably not here on Babble) continually underestimate the power of the brain to change our physiology. And we also underestimate the power of the "body" to make changes in the brain. Rarely is it any one thing...
But you know all of this - look who I'm lecturing. :) I wish the psychology world in general was as sophisticated in their thinking as we are here.
Posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 13:26:36
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing, posted by Daisym on December 14, 2007, at 0:01:52
>"Healing" implies, to me, a time-dependent process...
I like this Daisym - there is that time dependent component which makes me thing that healing or to be/feel as if something has healed involves stages over time. There is work going on during this time, a process that works in stages to accomplish the end result of being healed, whether a physical wound or sickness or emotional and psychological trauma or pain.
Posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 13:32:09
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » lovelorn, posted by seldomseen on December 14, 2007, at 6:42:56
> I find myself using the word recovery when talking about my therapy - as though I am trying to get back something that was lost.
This almost sounds like cure to me or, as my T said, reversing. The fact is that something was lost that wouldn't have otherwise been lost if the trauma hadn't occurred.
I like the idea of replacement - pain and loss has to be replaced by something, right which to me means replaced by healing and some other comfort, whether self-administered or from outside/someone or something else to help replace the loss. A kind of compensation, though it can never match or actually replace what was lost.
>Fortunately, I've been remitting more than relapsing as of late.
That is good to read, I hope it continues for you.
Posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 13:55:32
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing, posted by rskontos on December 14, 2007, at 11:15:44
>So maybe for me I need to go with managed. Yes manage is what I have to do with all the parts of me so that is the best I can see at this point. Maybe further along in my progress, what a hard word too, I could see healed or cured.
What you said here is what I intended for the thread, to make you think about what healing may mean to you, what it would look like and feel like and to examine whether any has occurred yet. Maybe the ability to just manage smoothly, where there was once chaos, is a sense of being healed.
>HI guys, here is my pitiful insight in this subjectNot pitiful, rskontos. I can tell by your post that you are going through a hard time with your illness. Don't think badly of yourself. Thank you, for your thoughts on the subject.
Posted by rskontos on December 14, 2007, at 14:56:15
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » rskontos, posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 13:55:32
Thanks lovelorn, i feel like i got an a on a paper.....rk
Posted by seldomseen on December 14, 2007, at 15:09:12
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » seldomseen, posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 13:32:09
You know, now that I've had a chance to re-read my original post and look at your response, I'm not sure replacement was the right word either.
After reflection, it feels more like a creation than just a "filling in" of something.
To be honest, even after all the years, the same old pain of what happened to me as a child is still very much there. I think I will carry it with me until the day I die. It's as much a part of me as my bones are. It hasn't been replaced anymore than I could replace my spine.
However, how I feel ABOUT the pain is somewhat different than it used to be. It is what it is and doesn't require much reaction from me anymore.
I certainly haven't "gotten over it" as everyone says we all should, but I've definately gotten on with it so to speak.
I think what I've done is created a new life - a good life (usually) for myself in which I can thrive. I did it on top of, around, under and through the pain.
I don't know. It's an odd thing to get my brain around.
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on December 14, 2007, at 19:10:50
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » antigua3, posted by DAisym on December 14, 2007, at 13:09:44
Posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 19:25:54
In reply to Re: Healing versus Curing » lovelorn, posted by seldomseen on December 14, 2007, at 15:09:12
>To be honest, even after all the years, the same old pain of what happened to me as a child is still very much there. I think I will carry it with me until the day I die. It's as much a part of me as my bones are. It hasn't been replaced anymore than I could replace my spine.
Yes, I know what you mean. I did mention to my T that I don't think some part, at least, can ever be completely healed.
>However, how I feel ABOUT the pain is somewhat different than it used to be. It is what it is and doesn't require much reaction from me anymore.
This is good. I am not there yet. As I mentioned to my T on Wednesday, I have basically been a wreck for the past two years dealing with this. I am still all reaction to it. I am noticing ever so recently though that reaction is changing, requiring less from me as I continue to work on it.
>I think what I've done is created a new life - a good life (usually) for myself in which I can thrive. I did it on top of, around, under and through the pain.
Hmmm. I am at the stage now of giving thought to what I want to create as a good life, post breakdown and dealing with this for two years now. I like how you said: on top of, around, under and through the pain. I have been dealing with all those places, especially the 'through' part since I've started therapy.
Thanks for the added thoughts.
Posted by lovelorn on December 14, 2007, at 19:54:50
In reply to Healing versus Curing, posted by lovelorn on December 13, 2007, at 18:22:03
Everyone's comments have been helpful as I ponder what healing means to me.
Anyway, I thought I would just post the dictionary meanings of both heal and cure. Interestingly enough I have experienced some cure (recovery/relief) as I continue in therapy and I see that I still have some ways to go in terms of healing. And by the definitions of heal, I believe I am right, and as seldom pointed out too, that there will probably always be a little part that cannot completely heal.
I hope the definitions will be useful to all that are contemplating the question of their psychological, emotional and mental healing.
Heal:
1 a: to make sound or whole <heal a wound> b: to restore to health
2 a: to cause (an undesirable condition) to be overcome : mend <the troubles…had not been forgotten, but they had been healed— William Power> b: to patch up (a breach or division) <heal a breach between friends>
3: to restore to original purity or integrity <healed of sin>
intransitive verb
: to return to a sound stateCure:
1 a: spiritual charge : care b: pastoral charge of a parish
2 a: recovery or relief from a disease b: something (as a drug or treatment) that cures a disease c: a course or period of treatment <take the cure for alcoholism> d: spa 1
3: a complete or permanent solution or remedy <seeking a cure for unemployment>
4: a process or method of curing
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.