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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
Has anyone YELLED at their T before? What was his/her reaction? I came so close to it last week. Sometimes I think he is TRYING to see what my reaction will be ... to see if I will raise my voice.
Thoughts?
Maxime
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2007, at 22:00:24
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
I've screeched on the phone to him, but I don't know about in person. I think he's yelled at me, but perhaps not. If someone's angry, I think they're yelling even if they aren't.
He didn't mind when I did. He mildly said he was glad I was able to express my anger.
Posted by rskontos on December 7, 2007, at 22:28:13
In reply to Re: Yelling at your T? » Maxime, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2007, at 22:00:24
I have by email and just recently one part of me did but I wasn't yelling at her but a situation I mishandled. I yelled by email when I thought she wasn't listening to me and I told her I wasn't coming back since she didn't listening and should know better considering my DX and if she was such an expert etc etc etc. All in all she took it better than I would have :) of course she knows how and I wouldn't. I think T's know that eventually they will get some kind of yelling. And it was actually very helpful. My T said she was proud of me getting out how I felt since anger is a feeling and I generally hide everything.
Remarkable actually to me. that she reacted that way. Surprise too. Because most people would get mad back but she didn't. She was proud. Funny T. rsk
Posted by star008 on December 7, 2007, at 23:50:01
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
I have gotten really nagry but never yelled.. have been a total b...tch in therapy alot of times though.. He might be tryng to get you angry..They know all the buttons to push, you know? There are boundaries though and some of them might not like being yelled at
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2007, at 23:52:03
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
Well I don't actually speak a whole lot bout myself in T. Mostly I write stuff...
But if writing counts...weeeellll...
I pretty much yelled OK.
Not long ago OH MAN I cannot BELEIVE what I sent to her....I tried to warn her in another email NOT to read the previous email....too late.
She didn't get mad. She said she didn't like to be called names, but she was not mad. It gave us something to discuss anyways! And I did apologize, cuz really, T or not, NOONE should have to put up with what I had in that mail....
I guess my only fear personally with actually yelling, is that yelling comes with rage, and violence is not far behind that....
I hope I never yell myself.
My T too damn sweet to yell at to her face anyhow LOL!
Good luck,
M
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2007, at 0:22:12
In reply to Re: Yelling at your T? » Maxime, posted by muffled on December 7, 2007, at 23:52:03
One week later no response to my T. Will have to fire her. Phillipa
Posted by antigua3 on December 8, 2007, at 9:19:51
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
Your T sounds like my pdoc. I really yelled once when I thought he was accusing me of lying, but most of the time I just say really mean things and he reacts, quite angrily sometimes.
He asked me once if I thought he did things on purpose to make me mad, and I've tried to work my way through that. Yes, I think he does it on purpose sometimes to provoke my anger, but I told him I'm not going there anymore. It's not necessarily a tactic that would work with me.
My T? I may have yelled at her, or raised my voice, but our relationship is much more of a loving mother type.
So yelling is good, especially if it lets out some anger, or frustration. I was just reading about how some pdocs believe that frustration is absolutely necessary, otherwise we wouldn't work as hard! I don't buy that, but it's out there.
So yell away! If you have a good T, they will use it to help you.
antigua
Posted by lovelorn on December 8, 2007, at 9:48:02
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
No, I've not yelled at my T. I have felt feelings of anger though but somehow my T good at keeping a certain distance in our discussions and I am pretty good, even when feeling certain emotions, at realizing that "she" is not the one I am angry with when I go through certain emotions. It's more like being angry at the situation I am in, that I have to be dealing with certain emotions but her and I knowing I do have to deal with them. I can imagine if someone is dealing with a lot of anger, they may transfer that onto the T and may end up yelling. I think T's know the difference and can handle such a situation, that something needs to be resolved. I would hope though it is not a regular thing, then I would say the patient is blurring the lines too much and needs help making the distinction of who exactly they are angry at and why.
Posted by antigua3 on December 8, 2007, at 10:02:40
In reply to Re: Yelling at your T? » Maxime, posted by lovelorn on December 8, 2007, at 9:48:02
Oh, I agree with you absolutely. I know that when I'm being cruel toward my pdoc, only a small portion of it is about him--it's about my unexpressed anger at my father. Hopefully, the therapy room is a safe place to express that anger and work through it. Part of my problem (and I know I'm not alone) is that I know where it comes from, but that knowledge alone doesn't help me. I need to work throught it somehow, and that's what I'm looking to my pdoc to help me with.
antigua
Posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 10:49:02
In reply to Re: Yelling at your T? » lovelorn, posted by antigua3 on December 8, 2007, at 10:02:40
Maxie,
To take your question first, no -- but then I've only raised my voice to my husband twice in seven years. And he's the ONLY person I've raised my voice to in decades. (Maybe I should change my posting name to Mouser, since I'm much more mouse-like...)
What's weird, though, is that I don't think I've ever felt like yelling at my T. When she mis-fires, as she did the other day, I try to say things again so she can get them, but mostly I feel as though she's guiding me through a sort of Magic Lantern show, where we watch the flickering shadows together -- she feels more like a tour guide than an adversary. (Which is not to say she doesn't confront me. She does -- just manages mostly to do it in a "with me" rather than "to me" sort of way. If that makes any sense.
Maxie, if you do yell at your T, it will probably turn into grist for the therapy mill -- never a bad thing. And if you don't yell at him, you can ask him if he's trying to provoke you, also grist for the mill.
I'm glad you've got access to a T now, and I hope it's helpful for you.
Posted by Daisym on December 8, 2007, at 11:35:02
In reply to This is sort of weird for me to read..., posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 10:49:02
Someone told me a long time ago - "intensity, not volume." But that said, I have raised my voice and yelled "at" my therapist - but not ripping him because of what he did or didn't do. More about he poked into a painful spot and it comes out, kind of like: "YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE ME! DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID TO ME?!" -- and then I usually fall apart and cry because of course he knows, I've spent years telling him. He's never shushed me, or asked me to calm down. Once I said I need to pace and he said fine - stomp around.
When I'm mad at him, I usually distance and withdraw into silence. I think he'd prefer if I yelled.
Posted by lovelorn on December 8, 2007, at 13:46:20
In reply to Re: Yelling at your T? » lovelorn, posted by antigua3 on December 8, 2007, at 10:02:40
>Oh, I agree with you absolutely. I know that when I'm being cruel toward my pdoc, only a small portion of it is about him--
Yes, especially in the beginning I would get feelings of anger particularly when I would begin emotional and cry. A part of me felt like the T was "making" me do this, wanted to see me suffering or something and that would make me angry. Rationally, I knew it was myself making myself do it, otherwise why would I go there in mind and emotion. Still, I think maybe I was kind of hoping too that the T would somehow make me feel better, take away the pain and the "need" to go through the emotions. Afterall, isn't that what a friend/person is there to do when someone is in pain, help make it go away. The T wasn't doing that and it just seemed (at first) that is what she wanted, to see me in pain. Eventually, I began to see those part of sessions as her not necessarily wanting to see me in pain, rather she was providing me the safety and caring to be able to express it and work through it how I needed to, as many times as I needed to and now I go into the sessions realizing I need to do it, not her wanting me to do it. She wants me too inasmuch as if I need to do it, she is there to help me get through it and help however she can with psychological insight.
Posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 13:48:01
In reply to This is sort of weird for me to read..., posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 10:49:02
Hi Racer
I know it's an odd question I asked. Everytime I see him (about 8 times now) he tells me I should be in an intimate relationship and that would make me feel better. Uh, I don't think so. I keep telling him that I don't agree and that I am not in the mood for looking for boyfriend, but I don't think he hears me. I almost yelled this week, but I didn't. I don't want to resort to yelling.
That about sums it up.
Maxime
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2007, at 14:39:49
In reply to Re: This is sort of weird for me to read... » Racer, posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 13:48:01
> Hi Racer
>
> I know it's an odd question I asked. Everytime I see him (about 8 times now) he tells me I should be in an intimate relationship and that would make me feel better. Uh, I don't think so. I keep telling him that I don't agree and that I am not in the mood for looking for boyfriend, but I don't think he hears me. I almost yelled this week, but I didn't. I don't want to resort to yelling.
>
> That about sums it up.
>
> MaximeThat seems a very odd thing for a therapist to say. Especially to say over and over again. Most of them make a point of wanting their clients to *not* feel that they need to be in a relationship to be happy. I can't imagine that my therapist would say that.
I'm not sure if it's necessary to yell at him, but I can see asking him why he thinks it's worthwhile to push this point with you? And to ask if he doesn't think that people can be happy and fulfilled without "intimate" relationships. And what he means by intimate.
But my take on it may be a bit extreme. A lot of my father's friends seemed to share that viewpoint and weren't shy about expressing it. So it's kind of a touchy point with me.
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2007, at 15:50:18
In reply to Re: This is sort of weird for me to read..., posted by Dinah on December 8, 2007, at 14:39:49
Actually, I apologize. I shouldn't reply when I have a visceral reaction.
Posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 16:33:30
In reply to Re: This is sort of weird for me to read..., posted by Dinah on December 8, 2007, at 14:39:49
> >>
> But my take on it may be a bit extreme. A lot of my father's friends seemed to share that viewpoint and weren't shy about expressing it. So it's kind of a touchy point with me.I had a strong reaction to that, too. That doesn't sound right to me, not at all.
Maxie, I agree that it's worth asking him WHY he keeps reverting to this topic. Finding a boyfriend as a "cure" for what ails you sounds like something from high school -- NOT a real world solution for ANYTHING.
I'm sorry he's bringing that up with you, and I wonder why? It's well worth asking him about it.
Posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 17:43:29
In reply to I don't think that's extreme... » Dinah, posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 16:33:30
He says that although I keep people at distance, that I still want human contact and that not having it is what is making me depressed (????). Not only does he thing I need a boyfriend, but other friends as well. I just feel like the biggest loser because I don't have many friends and I am still single. I feel worse about it when he brings it up EVERY time I see him.
Maxime
>
> I had a strong reaction to that, too. That doesn't sound right to me, not at all.
>
> Maxie, I agree that it's worth asking him WHY he keeps reverting to this topic. Finding a boyfriend as a "cure" for what ails you sounds like something from high school -- NOT a real world solution for ANYTHING.
>
> I'm sorry he's bringing that up with you, and I wonder why? It's well worth asking him about it.
Posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 18:19:17
In reply to I don't think that's extreme... » Dinah, posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 16:33:30
He says that although I keep people at distance, that I still want human contact and that not having it is what is making me depressed (????). Not only does he thing I need a boyfriend, but other friends as well. I just feel like the biggest loser because I don't have many friends and I am still single. I feel worse about it when he brings it up EVERY time I see him.
Maxime
>
> I had a strong reaction to that, too. That doesn't sound right to me, not at all.
>
> Maxie, I agree that it's worth asking him WHY he keeps reverting to this topic. Finding a boyfriend as a "cure" for what ails you sounds like something from high school -- NOT a real world solution for ANYTHING.
>
> I'm sorry he's bringing that up with you, and I wonder why? It's well worth asking him about it.
Posted by rskontos on December 8, 2007, at 18:56:36
In reply to Re: I don't think that's extreme... » Racer, posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 18:19:17
Now that bothers me too that he said that. It doesn't sound T y to me at all. sound weird. I mean what does not having a boyfriend got to do with it unless Maxie says she is feeling like she needs to have one and then T says well you push people away. OK that is one thing but if T brings it up first and keeps saying until it maybe makes Maxie feels bad then no no no I don't like that at all. See now it is making all of us mad so I like you Dinah maybe should answer when it triggers me. Maxi I think you need to tell him how it makes you feel maybe not yell if you can maybe email him if you don't think you can tell him face to face. But he needs to know he is making you feel worse. Ok that is my rant and I am sorry. rsk
Posted by Racer on December 8, 2007, at 19:39:47
In reply to Re: I don't think that's extreme... » Racer, posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 18:19:17
> He says that although I keep people at distance, that I still want human contact and that not having it is what is making me depressed (????). Not only does he thing I need a boyfriend, but other friends as well. I just feel like the biggest loser because I don't have many friends and I am still single. I feel worse about it when he brings it up EVERY time I see him.
>
> Maxime
>Ah, that makes more sense. Of course, that doesn't mean that I think he's approaching the subject all that well, but I know that I have a conflict between wanting human contact and avoiding it, and I know it really does increase my depression...
Maxie, could he be trying -- if clumsily -- to prompt you towards getting involved in something outside yourself? If so -- well, therapists are supposed to treat the client as-is-where-is, as we are now, not as maybe we might be in more optimal circumstances. Your T might be getting ahead of the process, since I don't think you're there yet. Maybe thinking about ways that you could meet new people -- NOT boyfriends, just people who might become friends -- and offering that up as a plan for when you get past some issues? Maybe that would encourage him to stop bringing it up for now?
I'm sorry you're going through this. This does not sound like the best possible fit for you with a therapist, and after all the times I've encouraged you to try it, I hate to think you got a dud...
xoxo
Posted by MidnightBlue on December 8, 2007, at 21:36:32
In reply to Yelling at your T?, posted by Maxime on December 7, 2007, at 21:49:13
No, but I came very very close to walking out a few times.
MB
Posted by MidnightBlue on December 8, 2007, at 21:40:45
In reply to Re: I don't think that's extreme... » Racer, posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 17:43:29
Maxime,
I can see someone suggesting your life might be richer with more friends, but you must have a boyfriend? not unless you really want one!
MB
Posted by kezia on December 12, 2007, at 10:14:16
In reply to Re: This is sort of weird for me to read... » Racer, posted by Maxime on December 8, 2007, at 13:48:01
My therapist and pdoc do, occasionally, bring up my not being in an intimate relationship and ask if I think I will ever be in one again. They don't imply that that will be the answer to all of my problems and they don't bring it up at every visit. They do recognize that I have intimacy and abandonment issues that need to be addressed first. I don't think all therapists think that a woman needs a boyfriend to feel better about herself, but intimate relationships (I am talking emotional, not physical) are therapeutic. That being said, one has to be ready emotionally to pursue this kind of relationship and for a therapist to imply that a female patient should find a boyfriend and then they will feel much better is not only narrow-minded, but chauvanistic as well. I wonder if he asks his male patients the same question repeatedly?
> Hi Racer
>
> I know it's an odd question I asked. Everytime I see him (about 8 times now) he tells me I should be in an intimate relationship and that would make me feel better. Uh, I don't think so. I keep telling him that I don't agree and that I am not in the mood for looking for boyfriend, but I don't think he hears me. I almost yelled this week, but I didn't. I don't want to resort to yelling.
>
> That about sums it up.
>
> Maxime
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