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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by star008 on November 22, 2007, at 22:49:00
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by Muffled on November 22, 2007, at 22:15:32
No more disorganized than I am..lol.. thx for the links.. I checked them all out. From one I found one about Dental dissociation. It was interesting since I have such trouble going to the dentist..Seems so traumatic to me to be powerless and horizontal with things in my mouth.. damn.
There is nothing clear about ddnos since everything is dumped there. I have several alters who are quiet most of the time but come out in therapy. I can't do much other work until I work with them.
Posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:55:46
In reply to DDNOS anyone???, posted by star008 on November 22, 2007, at 21:45:56
Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS) is a category for disorders in which the predominant feature is a dissociative symptom (i.e., a disruption in the usually integraged functions of consciousness, memory, identity, or perception of the environment) that does not meet the criteria for any specific Dissociative Disorders. Examples are Clinical presentations simialar to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) (the current term for what used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder) that do not meet the full criteria for this disorder (such as there are not two or more distinct personality states or amnesia for important personl inforamtion does not occur. Another example is: derealization unaccompanied by depersonalizaiton in adults. Another example: States of dissociation that occur in individuals who have been subjected to periods of prolonged and intense coercion persuasion such as brainwashing, etc. And it covers things like dissociative trance disorder or possession trance disorders such as amok or bebainan, etc from other cultures. DDNOS can also cover loss of consciousness, stupor, or coma not attributable to a general medical condition. And it can cover Ganser syndrome. [this is from the DSM-IV-TR] So, you might ask your therapist why this diagnosis versus one of the others, i.e., Dissociative Amnesia, Dissociative Fugue, Dissociative Identity Disorder, or Depersonalizaiton Disorder. They are all under the category of Dissociative Disorders.
RealMe
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2007, at 12:17:53
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:55:46
Seriously I thank-you for that excellent clarification as I didn't know it was so many things. Thanks again Phillipa
Posted by Muffled on November 23, 2007, at 15:25:00
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:55:46
So that is my understanding, that if you don't actaully lose larger periods of time, due to complete switching, that would not be considered DID.
Even w/in DID I expect there's a range of intensity.
I do alot of dissociative stuff, I think lots of people do. I think its more a matter of how it impacts your daily functioning/quality of life.
I am also of the opinion that ALL have 'people' inside, its just when the people are content and work well together, there is no consciouness of them. But I reckon they are there...for eg, when someone says , 'that brought out the kid in me!', I think it LITERALLY did, even if they don't mean it that way when they say it. I can think of lots of examples.
I think lotsa times people can have periods of derealization, depersonlization at times of stress.
They just don't know what it is.
They might just say they feel funny, or uncomfortable, or weird, or tired, etc.
These are my thots anyhow...
M
Posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 15:52:52
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:55:46
I know why he choose this diagnoses, it is just frustrating to me cuz I am one of those people who get obessed with finding out everything . I like to know which direction my T is going in.. Maybe I should just let things go the way they will without trying to figure everything out. There is nothing clear about this one.I have several ego states and switch into one of them without a lot of warning. I have no control over them but I am conscious of them and what went on although sometimes it is foggy.. they seem to be definate states but they don't have names (except for the evil one and I think I named her..lol)..Theya re not integrated and seem stuck on whatever state they were in when they got stuck there.
Not really like the "bringing out the child" Muffled. It is in a way but with people who expereince that the child doesn't get stuck in trauma. I think everyone has a couple of others within but this is different. They come out, are usually in pain and I can't control them and have them go back in at will. It takes some time. I can usually control them in public, (thank god) but sometimes I can't and then I just try to stay quiet or I go home if I can.thanks to everyone
Posted by rskontos on November 23, 2007, at 16:09:42
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 15:52:52
Star, mine are more like that to an extent but I have huge losses of time and memory and the fugue state, the memory losses are increasing, and now I am fainting alot again. I think because we are trying to in therapy get deeper into some of my memories I don't have. I can control somewhat in the beginning if my H or children speak to me if no one is around like that then nope I am gone until when ever. I finally has one in therapy but it was brief. I think therapy is one cause of the switching as it called, the coming and going, because it can make some of your people inside feel uncomfortable. Sorry you did use the word switching. My childhood trauma was bad I guess I undetermined it as I didn't know or think about but now that we are talking about in therapy I get triggered easily and switch or dissociate or faint or who knows what. But I do have the DID dx. So I don't know how T's decided. At first she just used dd and now changed it too DID once we get deeper into therapy.
rk
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2007, at 18:42:58
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by Muffled on November 23, 2007, at 15:25:00
Muffled gives me something to think about. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 21:43:55
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by Muffled on November 23, 2007, at 15:25:00
> So that is my understanding, that if you don't actaully lose larger periods of time, due to complete switching, that would not be considered DID.
****Not necessarily so; you can lose large periods of time and be DDNOS or Dissociaive fugue,etc.***
> Even w/in DID I expect there's a range of intensity.
> I do alot of dissociative stuff, I think lots of people do. I think its more a matter of how it impacts your daily functioning/quality of life.
> I am also of the opinion that ALL have 'people' inside, its just when the people are content and work well together, there is no consciouness of them. But I reckon they are there...for eg, when someone says , 'that brought out the kid in me!', I think it LITERALLY did, even if they don't mean it that way when they say it. I can think of lots of examples.
> I think lotsa times people can have periods of derealization, depersonlization at times of stress.
> They just don't know what it is.
> They might just say they feel funny, or uncomfortable, or weird, or tired, etc.
> These are my thots anyhow...
> M
>
Actually you are correct Muffie about the alters or whatever one wants to call them. They don't go away when one integrates. That is what is the good thing. You just recognize them as all there, and they are all aware of each other. Their voices are still there, and yes they can still come forward as you so choose, not when they choose.***Here is the criteria for DID:
The presense of two or more distinct identities or personality states (alters) -- each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self.
At least two of these identities or personality states recurrenlty take control of the person's behavior.
Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
The distrubance is not due to the direct phyiological effects of a substance (eg., alcoholic blackout or complex parial seizures.
In a dissociative fugue, one might actually go away on a trip and be gone for hours or days or weeks and even months. So, DID is certainly not the only condition where dissociative episodes occur.RealMe
Posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 23:46:15
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by rskontos on November 23, 2007, at 16:09:42
rk,
Do you not like the word switching?? I don't know what else to call it. We can use somethng different if there is one you like better. I don't really like the term either I know therapy makes it worse for me. You are right, i think they do get scared and then come out.
It is a scarey place to be. How you made much progress working on it?? I know it is a hrd one to deal with and can take a long time
Posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 23:52:51
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 21:43:55
People who lose time and have gaps where they don't remember are DID..DDNOS is a little different..There is wide range of dissociative disorders that fit into this "catch-all". I am ddnos because I have many of the symptoms of DID but do not met all the criteria for a DID diagnoses. I do have distinct ego states with their own personalities but I do not lose time and I usually remember what happened when I was in another state. I have some control but DID's generally do not.
Posted by rskontos on November 24, 2007, at 10:18:47
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 21:43:55
Star, no I only meant when I called it switching to be informative and you were already using that term. I didn't mean to be teaching when you were already using it that is all. I do call it switching but only after my T taught me the term. For years, I didn't know they were taking over. Recently however, I am staying during the switch for some and see what is happening like an out of body experience I guess. It is different that say in my childhood, teens and 20 and 30's. But not always, for some I leave some I can stay. My T wants me to try to talk to them and I haven't really been able to much a little. I feel I am making progress since I can stay a little. So I am getting to know some of my parts. I think that is progress. I didn't know what was going on just that I lost loads of time. When my mother took me to the doctors all these years I have rec'd loads of Dx mostly medical. My current neuro said no you don't have partial seizures because when you lost time no one knew. That she said was the biggest way to tell from her perspective. When people have partial seizures everyone around them know for the most part. Because they don't keep functioning like I did. In high school I would lose days. I have almost no memory of things. And those I do have bad memories. That is another thing the T said you lose the bad memories and often the good ones too.
Anyway, sorry I wasn't clear in my statements. rk
Posted by Muffled on November 24, 2007, at 10:26:30
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 23:52:51
Waaggghh!!!
It IS confusing!!!
I guess the one thing I have noticed, is I guess this is logical, but when I read the DID stuff, lotsa times it AHA! yes I so 'get' that. Other times not so much.
I don't like the word switching applied to myself, cuz I don't consider that I switch, or mebbe dammit, maybe I just don't want to go there. I call it 'other ways of being', and I don't generally say DD bout myself, I tend to say I just kinda split up a little. No biggie.
Sigh.
I am the queen of denial. Its one of my primitive coping mechanisms.
Anyhow, so fars I know, I didn't have much childhood truama, cept mebbe this thing when I was very young, and I was so young, that my memories are very confusing, mostly a picture, or body feelings, or those horrible emotions. But I stay away from that as much as possible.
I also had frightening med probs when older too.
I goto ask my T, what DO you do bout those feelings? I expect her answer is you just learn to cope with them. I am already having a better understanding of stuff that I do.
Damn, this stuff all sucks so bad :-(
Sorry you guys have to struggle :-(
Alls I know is I NOT gonna quit, and I gonna keep trying to be an OK person, cuz I got beautiful kids what need me.
Take good care guys.
M
Posted by RealMe on November 24, 2007, at 12:55:41
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???, posted by star008 on November 23, 2007, at 23:52:51
What I gave you were the diagnostic criteria from the DSM-IV-TR which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-4th Edition, Text Revision. This is what is used by psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, etc. to make a diagnosis. What I gave you were the diagnostic criteria for: Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS), Dissositive Identity Disorder (DID), and Dissociative Fugue. I gave you three of the diagnosis criteria. Obviously this does not cover everything, but it is true that people with DDNOS do dissociate. It is a variant of dissociative disorders.
I will not bow out of here and post no more on this topic. It is all very complicated. and just giving the diagnostic criteria does not tell the whole story, obviously. When I was doing my postdoctoral fellowship in clinical psychology, I worked with persons with all the variants of disscociative disorder. The best thing is to just work with your therapist.
There is a good book out, however, written for patients. It is by one of my supervisors from Menninger's. It is called, "Coping with Trauma, A Guide to Self-Understanding," by Jon G. Allen, Ph.D., c. 1995, American Psychiatric Press, Inc. He has written another book especially for patients, and if you google his name, I am sure you will find it. This one book, however, is excellent.
RealMe
Posted by rskontos on November 24, 2007, at 14:33:20
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 24, 2007, at 12:55:41
I would like to read the book I think I am going to look for it on amazon or the bookstore. thanks for the information. rk
Posted by star008 on November 24, 2007, at 15:38:14
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 24, 2007, at 12:55:41
It is all very confusing.. thanks for your help everyone..
Posted by star008 on November 24, 2007, at 15:44:47
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone???RealMe, posted by rskontos on November 24, 2007, at 14:33:20
If anyone is interested I found this book online..The whole book is there and is free..
http://www.healingthewoundsofabuse.com/
Posted by 10derHeart on November 25, 2007, at 0:08:55
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 24, 2007, at 12:55:41
Here's a little plug from the FAQ......
"This site lets you link book, movie, and music titles to Amazon.com and thereby help others find them (and support online education and self-help by buying them). Just put a title in double double quotes, and the server will automatically search Amazon.com and link to the first match. When you confirm your post, you have the option of linking to a different title (or not linking at all)........................FYI, this is an application of Amazon.com Web Services."
....and here's the book link "Coping with Trauma, A Guide to Self-Understanding"
Posted by star008 on November 25, 2007, at 7:30:31
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 24, 2007, at 12:55:41
Thanks for your help and looking the stuff up for me.. My T once told me I am about as close to MPD as he has seen..The only difference is that I am conscious of my alters. I don't know how many peole have this.. I will ask him.
hugs
Posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:08:06
In reply to Linking to Amazon/double-double quotes » RealMe, posted by 10derHeart on November 25, 2007, at 0:08:55
I just went to the site and almost choked. There is no way anyone should pay $170 for the book. It was originally listed as around $30. Jon Allen's newer book is out too, Coping with Trauma, Hope through understanding. I may get this book as I have not read it yet. I have read the other, Coping with Trauma, A Guide To SElf-Understanding, and I suppose it would be best to read that one first. I will check where it might be cheaper.
I think if you check with APA press, maybe you can get it cheaper--or check the Menninger website where Dr. Allen works. There is no reason to pay more than $35 for the book. I don't understand why Amazon is asking so much money for the book.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:09:46
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » RealMe, posted by star008 on November 25, 2007, at 7:30:31
I am where you are at then, I know now, but did not always know about different alters. I am aware of them all, and they are all aware of each other. Okay, fine, but some still have a lot of pain that was never expressed, and that is where I am now.
RealMe
Posted by Muffled on November 25, 2007, at 23:06:58
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:09:46
http://www.menningerclinic.com/resources/coping_trauma05.htm
Posted by Muffled on November 25, 2007, at 23:34:00
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:09:46
http://lb.ca/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/newsearch1?/Z109991@@c169244.p157410.1.t1196055002GDN0092
Posted by RealMe on November 26, 2007, at 17:27:10
In reply to Re: Linking to Amazon/double-double quotes » 10derHeart, posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:08:06
I could not find a way to get the first book cheaper. I guess it is out of print??? I could check with Jon Allen if anyone is interested to see if it is cheaper elsewhere. If anyone is interested, let me know. He was one of my supervisors, and I haven't talked to him in a long time anyway.
RealMe
Posted by star008 on November 26, 2007, at 23:53:07
In reply to Re: DDNOS anyone??? » star008, posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:09:46
realme
It is not that I am glad you are where I am but I am glad I found someone like me. I have no idea of how to proceed.. I love My T dearly but he told me tonite that he has only seen 3 or 4 in his 37 years of practice. I am going to stay with him rather than try to build trust with someone else, (it could take sooooo long).. I have great respect for him and he is highly intelligent.. He told me some therapists have told him they have 20 or 30 ddnos patients. I don't think he is missing all of it.. I think they are overdiagnosing ddnos.. There are lots of instances of dissociation that are transient and would not qualify as truly dissociative.. I don't know waht to do but I think that there are no quick solutions to this.
Yes, there is alot of pain that is frozen there in time.. I have alot of fear... where do we go freom here, Real??? damn.. I am discouraged at the length of time I realistically see here..
Where do you live?? Just curious??
star008 chris
Posted by star008 on November 27, 2007, at 2:30:55
In reply to Re: Linking to Amazon/double-double quotes » 10derHeart, posted by RealMe on November 25, 2007, at 12:08:06
I was shocked by the price.. we will have to wait till it comes down.. that is waaaayyy too much mney for a book.. looks grea though
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