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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 8:00:50
well, had session yesterday...it seems she feels it's really important that i see her every week...so....here i go again.
therapy seems better and worse this time around.
it's better because i'm not this utterly terrified person with all these constant flashbacks and depression and confusion. i'm aware of my abuse now...it's not a horrible surprise, and though there are new memories now and again, i think i have most of it back.
its worse because, well, honestly, before i could dissociate really...REALLY well, and now i don't seem to as much..i know i should be thankful that i don't cuz it used to scare me sometimes, but i guess it was kind of an escape for me. and now i actually have to DEAL with these emotions and stuff.yesterday i went in thinking ok, i have this memory we're going to talk about and i'll be very 'matter of fact' about it, no tears etc. i even told her i didn't feel like crying about it and i felt bad/wrong about that, she said it depends why i dont' cry. if it's because i can talk about it without crying because i've 'dealt' with it they great, but if its because i don't want to experience emotions around it then...not so good. -i said it was the latter :)
anyway, i stalled for a while then finally started talking about it and it took...oh...at most 5 min. before i started tearing up...crying etc.
sometimes i want to just HIT myself for doing that. i get SO ANGRY at myself when i cry over what 'HE' did to me... i also feel that "i shouldn't be crying..it wasn't that bad..."but it did go fairly well, i think some emotions were really scaring me as i had my ocean wave wash over my brain a few times. and i TOTALLY forgot what i said or even what we were talking about...feel like such a fool sometimes.
BUT i felt REALLY good that i am ACTUALLY telling her what is going on in my head. so instead of covering and saying...oh, i was thinking of something else, or i was spacing out or i just forgot...i told her that i got upset and i had a 'wash out'. she helped me walk back to get where i was.
which i've never had anyone do that before...
...you know. i'm beginning to think she actually cares a bit. and my getting through this is important, and my well-being.Funny End...
i was in such a rush to get out of my T's office yesterday i left my keys and sunglasses there...it took me over 5 min. before i even realized this...went back and they were out on the counter in waiting room (thank goodness)....i'm still a little raw from yesterday, but i think ok.
Posted by slugdoo on August 10, 2007, at 9:58:51
In reply to getting back into therapy., posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 8:00:50
I love your insite on how you are different in dealing with stuff. I remember in therapy at first and still sometimes I can tell what happened in a matter of fact way. Actually it is a symptom of PTSD,(dulling of the feelings) But it is okay,because it protected us, because feelings hurt and it our natural way of protecting us.
Kinda like when you give birth to a baby, it hurts like frickin hell, but somehow your forget or else there would be a lot more one child families.But eventually you have have to deal with the stuff because it keeps invading our lives. You shouldn't be hard on yourself for crying. (i know better said than done). But is okay to cry and you need to cry, and have every right to cry for whatever happened to you.
I like how you discribed the ocean and the washing over you kinda like a wave. I am sure your T understood what you meant and was able to bring you back. This is so great and you should be so proud of yourself. It sounds like an awesome session. I am glad you post here.
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 13:08:06
In reply to getting back into therapy., posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 8:00:50
Well, i do not wish to rain on anyone's
parade, and i see from these posts, that
so many people feel they benefit from
psychotherapy.But personally, i do have this question, which
has not yet been answered: What if the therapist
is insightful enough to make you aware of what
the problem(s) IS in your life. And imagine that
the problem is something criminal against you, just
hypothetically, or that you have a terminal disease, or that you need medications to alter
your mental state which has brought you to her or him? What does the therapist do then? Do they give you an address of a lawyer or a doctor or a psychiatrist that would match their expertise and right-on analysis of what has been bothering you?What I am trying to say is, does self-realization through psychoanalysis get you anywhere, other than just realizing that the reason you have a scar on your waste is because your mother or father abused you by burning you when you were a child. Would the therapist suggest the address of dermatologist?
That kind of thing? Does anyone understand what I am trying to say here?
Squiggles
Posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 13:22:44
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » B2chica, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 13:08:06
Hi Squiggles.
first let me say that, personally i do not think that psychotherapy is for everyone. i personally want help...i want someone to guide me through this emotional mine field that has built up in me over many...many years. that's what i have chosen to do. someone that has experience (yet no emotional experience of what i'm been/going through). like when i break a leg...ya it's great to talk with others who have broken a leg, but i want a doctor to set it, cast it and tell me what i need to do to let it heal. to me that's how i see my T and what she does for me.
Now, about your question, (i hope i am understanding your question right)
i think that at some level everyone knows what is wrong in their life, however, sometimes it takes the right person to poke and prod to get you to realize it. (to have that A-HA moment.
if it is criminal, if you or someone is currently in danger they are obligated to report it, however if it is a past crime...i'm not sure what the rules are... as far as the disease, i don't see how they could 'dx' it as they are not physicians, if they feel we need meds in my experience they would Recommend a pdoc or state that they feel medications would assist in ''recovery'...
i think what i'm saying here is any T worth their 2c would refer out beyond their scope...even if within the genre of therapy.does self-realization through psychoanalysis get you anywhere?? that depend solely on the person. some hear the truth and go about like before...other's it helps to change their lives.
same as philosophy, some people think deep and it changes them...others hear it, and go on...Personally, i wish everyone would reflect on self-realization whether through psychoanalysis or not...but that is not the case...we see this VERY often with our 'abusers'...they are given the torch of enlightenment, and instead of seeing it to change or alter their lives...they ignore it...or snuff it out because it is too bright.
i'm not sure if i totally reached your point...but that is my 2c.
FWIWb2c.
Posted by DAisym on August 10, 2007, at 13:38:48
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 13:22:44
Usually the power of therapy isn't so much the insight -- I agree with B2 that most people already know basically what they should change. But many of us don't know how...or don't have the strength alone to do it. Sometimes the general descriptors of being unhappy can be narrowed as you figure out you are bored in your job, or lonely or in an unhappy marriage. I think you might also discover your role in your own life - it isn't as random as most of us would like to believe.
The role of a therapist isn't to be Jack-of-All-Trades and "fix" your life. Therapy helps you sort out what needs to change and how to do that. Just like a plumber won't fix your car...And I think a good therapist will say, "you need a doctor or a lawyer or a priest" if it is appropriate. It is interesting that many people think that those of us in therapy "count on" our therapists to make decisions for us, or to run our lives. It doesn't normally work like that.
I guess I'd also say there is a wide ban in the field of psychology -- from life couch to analyst. Very different focuses and very different approaches.
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 14:03:23
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 13:22:44
No, that's a thoughtful response. I guess
I expect something like a social worker in
conjunction with a doctor to sort family problems
out. Regarding the ABUSER, i doubt very much
that anyone but a social worker could put him or
her under psychiatric care. The T may just talk
about how you felt when you were beaten and scalded by X. Well, personally i would rather have the social worker put the ABUSER in jail and apart from the person being abused.So far, all that a T has done for me is almost succeeded in breaking up my marriage. Thoughtless and irresponsible, given the very long and loving relationship. I suspect the problem is a medical one. And I am pretty sure my S's doctor knows that too. But it doesn't cost the T much-- "oh i am not a dr., if you have a brain tumour you have to take that can of worms to someone who doesn't charge by the hour and actually is accountable to the Royal College of Physicians. I am just a therapist for your soul." [imagined paraphrase] She probably wasn't even born when we were married nor does she know all the tragedies and happiness and support we have gone through. Maybe they are not all the same, but she can go to ****.
Squiggles
Posted by sunnydays on August 10, 2007, at 14:21:17
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » B2chica, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 13:08:06
The insight can let you know why you react the way you do to certain things. I have found that once I know that, I can work to change how I react. And then I am no longer controlled by the pain from the past. I am able to make my own choices and live my own life. And yes, medication has helped me in that aspect, and I do see a nurse practitioner who presribes my medication. But that isn't to numb the pain... it's to change the parts of my pain that are biological, to 'fix' them as it were.
I'm sorry you don't see therapy as something that can be beneficial, but if by nothing more than allowing me to take some control over my life, it has been beneficial to me.
sunnydays
Posted by Tamar on August 10, 2007, at 14:25:34
In reply to getting back into therapy., posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 8:00:50
Gosh, B2, you're obviously doing some really excellent and effective work there. It's really painful feeling those emotions and talking about them, and you're being very brave in facing up to that pain. Good for you!
Do you think there was anything symbolic in leaving your keys and sunglasses behind? Or was it just one of those things that's not really significant?
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 14:29:55
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by sunnydays on August 10, 2007, at 14:21:17
> The insight can let you know why you react the way you do to certain things. I have found that once I know that, I can work to change how I react. And then I am no longer controlled by the pain from the past. I am able to make my own choices and live my own life. And yes, medication has helped me in that aspect, and I do see a nurse practitioner who presribes my medication. But that isn't to numb the pain... it's to change the parts of my pain that are biological, to 'fix' them as it were.
>
> I'm sorry you don't see therapy as something that can be beneficial, but if by nothing more than allowing me to take some control over my life, it has been beneficial to me.
>
> sunnydaysThat sounds miraculous. I thought that development of the personality stopped at 18. That's what Aristotle thought too.:-) If it can be done, great, but what about situations where you can change your response through therapy but an abuser can't, won't or will kill you if you try to stand up to him?
That is the kind of psychoanalysis that people need; what Ts do is never that heavy.
Squiggles
Posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 14:47:06
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » B2chica, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2007, at 14:25:34
funny you should ask...cuz i've been known to do that...but i think i was in such a rush to get the heck outta there, i had been crying and my face was (i'm sure red or flushed) and i HATE going through the waiting room like that so i just put my head down and ran out!
thanks for the support Tamar
Posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 14:59:53
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » sunnydays, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 14:29:55
>>>If it can be done, great, but what about situations where you can change your response through therapy but an abuser can't, won't or will kill you if you try to stand up to him?
i think this is usually what happens...you can't change other people...you can ONLY change how you act/react to others.my first T taught me that...i am NOT responsible for others actions/reactions...only my own.
if you feel that your changing will put your life in danger than you need to act accordingly, either stay in the relationship doing what you need to survive, or until you are killed, or do what you need to escape. Please don't misunderstand me...none of those options are easy...NONE, and i in NO WAY mean to make light.
dealing with a person who is a sociopath or anti-authority type personalities (basically any abuser) is impossible to do...even professionals trained to deal with psyche's of criminals don't do so with success (as we think of it)..heck just look at the recitivism rate from prisons..isn't it something like 70% re-offend??remember, therapy is not about others...it's about you.
>>That is the kind of psychoanalysis that people need; what Ts do is never that heavy.
T's job's are a passive kind of job...they don't 'cure' or 'fix' people..that's not their job. they are guides or sometimes teachers that help you to make your life more rewarding. they work with Quality of life...Not Quantity.
you may be looking for someone with a more 'active' job skill such as a doctor, or even a social worker or police officer...they deal with 'the others'.i hope you can find what you need Squiggles.
b2c.
Posted by Tamar on August 10, 2007, at 15:02:25
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » sunnydays, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 14:29:55
> That sounds miraculous. I thought that development of the personality stopped at 18. That's what Aristotle thought too.:-)I'm not aware of a consensus about when personality development stops. Who says it's 18? I'm pretty sure Jung wouldn't agree with that.
> If it can be done, great, but what about situations where you can change your response through therapy but an abuser can't, won't or will kill you if you try to stand up to him?
I think in a situation like the one you describe, a therapist's task would be to help the client to acknowledge the severity of the abuse and help her/him to restore enough of a sense of self to leave the abuser. Victims in a situation like this are often afraid to leave and can even come to believe that they deserve to be abused.
> That is the kind of psychoanalysis that people need; what Ts do is never that heavy.
Sorry to disagree, but this is a very common experience for therapists. Domestic violence is widespread, and therapists frequently work with clients who live with abusers. Perhaps some therapists are less skilled in that area than others, but it's by no means an uncommon reason to be in therapy. And sometimes it takes a lot of therapy before the victim is able to leave the abuser, because the domestic abuse is so psychologically damaging.
Posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 15:08:17
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2007, at 15:02:25
> > If it can be done, great, but what about situations where you can change your response through therapy but an abuser can't, won't or will kill you if you try to stand up to him?
>
> I think in a situation like the one you describe, a therapist's task would be to help the client to acknowledge the severity of the abuse and help her/him to restore enough of a sense of self to leave the abuser. Victims in a situation like this are often afraid to leave and can even come to believe that they deserve to be abused.VERY well said Tamar.
thank you.
> > That is the kind of psychoanalysis that people need; what Ts do is never that heavy.
>
> Sorry to disagree, but this is a very common experience for therapists. Domestic violence is widespread, and therapists frequently work with clients who live with abusers. Perhaps some therapists are less skilled in that area than others, but it's by no means an uncommon reason to be in therapy. And sometimes it takes a lot of therapy before the victim is able to leave the abuser, because the domestic abuse is so psychologically damaging.
after hearing what you've said Tamar, i agree with you completely.
although i know all too well that DA can be an issue in thearpy, i guess i've not thought of how a T would actually respond to that.
-you've said it very well.
thank you.
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 15:42:24
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by B2chica on August 10, 2007, at 14:59:53
> >>>If it can be done, great, but what about situations where you can change your response through therapy but an abuser can't, won't or will kill you if you try to stand up to him?
>
> i think this is usually what happens...you can't change other people...you can ONLY change how you act/react to others.my first T taught me that...i am NOT responsible for others actions/reactions...only my own.
> if you feel that your changing will put your life in danger than you need to act accordingly, either stay in the relationship doing what you need to survive, or until you are killed, or do what you need to escape. Please don't misunderstand me...none of those options are easy...NONE, and i in NO WAY mean to make light.
> dealing with a person who is a sociopath or anti-authority type personalities (basically any abuser) is impossible to do...even professionals trained to deal with psyche's of criminals don't do so with success (as we think of it)..heck just look at the recitivism rate from prisons..isn't it something like 70% re-offend??
>
> remember, therapy is not about others...it's about you.
>
> >>That is the kind of psychoanalysis that people need; what Ts do is never that heavy.
>
> T's job's are a passive kind of job...they don't 'cure' or 'fix' people..that's not their job. they are guides or sometimes teachers that help you to make your life more rewarding. they work with Quality of life...Not Quantity.
> you may be looking for someone with a more 'active' job skill such as a doctor, or even a social worker or police officer...they deal with 'the others'.
>
> i hope you can find what you need Squiggles.
> b2c.Thanks for that post; that's probably the most helpful post i have had regarding difficult situations, and the role of therapists. Frankly,
I think a can of MACE would be cheaper and maybe land you in a safe place, like jail away from your abuser. (black humour)Thank you again. I'll have to figure something out, lol. Maybe marry one of those survivor types who are armed to the teeth and drive a really huge pick-up truck, and say "mess with my woman and prepare to mess with me" :-)
Squiggles
Posted by sunnydays on August 10, 2007, at 17:02:01
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » sunnydays, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 14:29:55
Well, my abuser will probably never change how she reacts to things. I can't say that it's as extreme as her killing me if I stood up to her, as I know she would never do that, but she has threatened to have me arrested before for no reason at all.
Therapy helps me find ways to disconnect from the abuser. That way I don't necessarily have to confront her or can do so at a safe distance. For example, I was only able to make the choice not live there anymore after I was in therapy, and that has changed my life. My abuser wasn't happy about that, to be sure, and she still tries to play games to get me to come back, but I'm strong enough now to resist. If you are that afraid of an abuser killing you, I would personally suggest a restraining order so they can't come near you. But therapy can help you find strategies that will work for you. It doesn't have to be standing up to the abuser - I wouldn't say I have stood up to mine yet - you and the therapist can collaborate and come up with a plan of action that's best for you. That's the great thing about therapy - it is completely and totally individualized.
As far as therapy being miraculous, I wouldn't say so. It has taken over two years of hard work to get where I am today, and I have never in my life felt better, although hopefully I can still move forward from where I am. I am fairly young (I was 18 when I started therapy), so that may help my progress some, being less tied down to a family and career I can be more flexible with some of my life choices. But overall it's just a lot of hard work. Therapy certainly may not be right for everyone, but it can help a whole lot of people. It does require a certain willingness to do the work. That is sort of a minimum requirement for it to work, I would think. But it's not magic at all, I don't mean to imply that. It's just that the changes in my life have been so great, that I am just incredibly thankful that I have been able to do this work with the therapist that I have. I'm lucky to have one of the really good ones.
And actually, he is a licensed clinical social worker. Therapists don't have to be Ph.D's - it sounded from one of your posts that you might have thought that. There can be everyone from life coaches to pastoral counselors to social workers to psychologists... and the list goes on but I don't remember the rest of the categories.
But it's just my opinion of therapy, there are certainly many people who have not found it helpful. But it has helped me.
sunnydays
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2007, at 17:15:36
In reply to Re: getting back into therapy. » Squiggles, posted by sunnydays on August 10, 2007, at 17:02:01
> Well, my abuser will probably never change how she reacts to things. I can't say that it's as extreme as her killing me if I stood up to her, as I know she would never do that, but she has threatened to have me arrested before for no reason at all.
>...than that should not be too threatening; i mean
she has no grounds, though very aggressive -- arrest you for what, for no reason?Anyway, i wish to put it DOWN FOR THE RECORD that i am speaking of abuse hypothetically. And I was wondering if therapists would deal with that? And you have all answered my question very generously.
Whatever my problems, I was raised by wolverines,
and some of them DID have a Ph.D. in crisis intervention. But I could use a handsome young survivalist from Alberta with a yellow FORD 4-wheeler and a license. If you know of any, :-)Squiggles
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