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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2007, at 23:28:46
That if you complain about something or wish for something, the fates will overhear and grant your wish or fix what you complained about in a way that is really the last thing you'd actually want?
I thought it was a reasonably common belief, but my therapist thinks it's exceedingly odd.
So when I was little and was crying that I wanted a puppy and my mom wouldn't let me have another one, and then my other dog died, it was the fates "granting" my wish in a way that made me sorry I ever wished it.
Or when I was in college and hadn't studied for a test, and was trying to last minute cram when I fell asleep over my books only to wake up to hear it had flooded, and school was cancelled, it was all my fault?
So now whenever I wish or hope or complain about something, I have to also say all of the things I wouldn't want to happen so that I sound like the disclaimer on a car commercial.
Is that as weird as my therapist thinks?
I mean, of course I know there's no such thing. But of course I really know that there is such a thing.
Common belief or OCD?
Posted by muffled on June 26, 2007, at 9:26:30
In reply to Does anyone else believe in the fates?, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2007, at 23:28:46
Hmmmm.
Wass the 'fates' anyways?
Who controls them?
God or gods?
Satan?
Some 'forces'?
I dunno Dinah, s'pose anything is possible.
Once with my friend, we saw a ufo of some sort (NO! we were nOT high !). I've never been able to explain the phenomena that we BOTH saw.
So that tends to leave me more open minded.
LOL! Maybe its aliens pulling this crap on us simple humans!!!!
Who knows!
I guess its best to beleive in whatever makes you comfortable, cuz I guess we'll never really know.
I like my higher power. He pretty much leaves us to our own devices, but He has this amazing ability to somehow make good things out of bad things. He has been there for me in His own odd way.
It comforts most of me. (though there is a part that rages against him).
So there, too much info eh!
Just sitting here sipping coffee while my sweet kids eat waffles and watch cartoons before school.
The sun is just beaming in. Its SO beautiful and peacful. I am enjoying this gift of this moment in time.
I hope I can remmebr it when times are not so good.
I hate having such a poor memory.
Take special care, you are an amazing person Dinah.
Muffled
Posted by DAisym on June 26, 2007, at 9:30:49
In reply to Does anyone else believe in the fates?, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2007, at 23:28:46
I think we all do this to some extent. OCD? It most likely depends on the amount of fear it causes in you to have wished for something spontaneously - I don't think most people believe they have to trade what they have, to get something good. So if you have to back track all the time to "undo" -- you might want to work on this. :)
I believe in Universal Karma and in the power of prayer. I believe if we move forward with intention, we can draw energy to our tasks. But I have no idea how to harness that yet. I wake up each morning with a tiny prayer:
"please God, don't let anything bad happen today."
Kind of like hoping to not be unhappy, vs. wanting to be happy.
It's early - this probably makes no sense. I'm off to a hard day -- so say it with me, "Please, God..."
Posted by vwoolf on June 26, 2007, at 12:03:31
In reply to Re: Does anyone else believe in the fates? » Dinah, posted by DAisym on June 26, 2007, at 9:30:49
Hmm would this be the same kind of thing? Whenever I begin to feel hopeful that something could change for the better, I start to panic and feel suicidal because I feel sure that this will only make everything worse, unbearably worse. Because this is what always happened when I was a child. Just as I thught things would improve they got a whole lot worse.
And then I think I sabotage things to make them fall into this pattern. Because hope does not feel possible, it feels dangerous.
Is that what you are trying to say?
Posted by B2chica on June 26, 2007, at 15:07:16
In reply to Does anyone else believe in the fates?, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2007, at 23:28:46
i don't know that i believe in 'fates' per se but i believe that if i ask for selfish positives that i will get them but also be punished with bad things...
like you say, if i wish for someone to pay attention to me then ex; i'd get the attention from a teacher on nice work, then i'd get beat up from students because of it..
or i'd say how lonely i was and that i just wanted a boy to like me and i got r@ped.i now believe that whenever something really good happens something equally bad happens. if its a little good then only a little bad would happen, but something really good. look out.
the last Really good i got was finding a best friend. he was Wonderful, we grew closer and closer and just as i was realizing what i'd finally found (or had found me) he died. very suddenly.about your saying what you wish and disclaimer...i do the exact same thing. but i've also adjusted how i 'wish' for things, to more negative. lately we're very broke and i'd love a raise at work but cannot ask for one. i wish that my boss would be generous, but i make sure and say that i want to keep this job and if that means no money that i'm fine with that...etc.
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and vwoolf...what you wrote, i probably could sign my name to it.
i view what you are saying as a little different than dinah, but i agree 100% with what you say. but i think this is just a learned behavior like you wrote...it's what we came to expect. just like i learned to expect something really bad after something good happens. it just always did. and i think i sabotage things when i think they are too good cuz it scares me of the 'really bad' thing that could or would happen. sometimes i opt to not be that happy because i don't want to be sad...make sense?
hope feels good to me, but hope has always been intangible to me. when it starts to feel real...i get scared also.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2007, at 16:48:34
In reply to Re: Does anyone else believe in the fates?, posted by B2chica on June 26, 2007, at 15:07:16
I guess everyone has their own slightly different take on the topic.
I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere about being careful about what you wish for, you just may get it, and also about the Fates, when I was little. So that when I wished for a puppy and then my dog died, I somehow connected that. I was still quite young, less than ten.
After that, selective attention probably enforced it. Whenever something happened that would reinforce it, I probably noted and remembered it. While forgetting entirely the many times that it didn't work that way.
I worked out a fairly elaborate way that it works. Wishing for selfish things or in anger of course adds to the chances for a bad outcome. But if the bad outcome is something you'd really like (no matter how bad you might feel for really liking it), it won't happen. Because the Fates only give you what you don't really want in order to give you what you do want.
When my OCD is under control, it's not a terribly intrusive thing. It just leads me to carefully word any wishes I might have. "Oh, we really need rain. (But not so much rain as to cause flooding, and no severe weather with it, and other people also get the rain they need, etc. etc.)"
When my OCD acts up, I spend a fair amount of time bothering people by taking back what I said or putting qualifications on my wishes, even if I have to call them to do it.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 26, 2007, at 17:40:48
In reply to Thanks for your thoughts on the topic :), posted by Dinah on June 26, 2007, at 16:48:34
> When my OCD acts up, I spend a fair amount of time bothering people by taking back what I said or putting qualifications on my wishes, even if I have to call them to do it.
>
>
funny, I have 2 friends who do this all the time. I have one short conversation with them, and then I hear regularly from them for several weeks afterwards, because they want to make sure that they didn't sound ______, or they didn't mean to say ________, or they hoped I understood _______.it's funny because they're both German.
I think it's okay to just "place an order" every now and then. like when you get up in the am to place a silent order, like at the McDonald's speaker. I would like ______. (don't bother saying "hold the onions or extra ketchup; don't put any tomato on mine because the customer inside won't have enough tomatos". McDonalds will never run out. Just like the world will never run out of nice stuff. [mental note: I just created an idealized microcosm out of McDonalds... omg...].
You can have your good stuff without worrying about someone else's tomato.
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Fate- I guess I believe in Karma. When somebody goes out of their way to help me out, I try to take that and give a little of it to other people I meet that day. If I'm having a terrible day, I try not to spread my misery, thinking that it will self-perpetuate. Having an open heart. blah blah blah.
Time to hit the limeade.
-Ll
Posted by Honore on June 26, 2007, at 18:47:16
In reply to Re: Thanks for your thoughts on the topic :) » Dinah, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 26, 2007, at 17:40:48
Me too. I don't believe in anything per se-- but I act as though I believe in things-- like that bad thing will happen if I have too much hope, or optimism-- like vwoolf.
I don't exactly believe wishes will rebound-- but I definitely will knock on wood-- just to reinforce the notion that I"m not suffering from delusions, or hubris. I think the gods don't particularly like people who are deluded by their own goodness, or chance of being rewarded. I think that's kind of like the fates-- although more non-specific.
Not that I believe in the gods, or karma, or anything-- but on the other hand, I believe in modern versions of them, like vicious cycles, producing the (bad) results you expect, and avoiding the evil eye (not that it's evil or an eye, but something to that effect) and the like.
Your take on it is a little more worked out than most of us, Dinah-- but only that we've taken the lazy approach of just kind of knowing it's not going to work out if we expect anything too good.
Honore
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