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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on April 14, 2007, at 19:19:33
It's me again; I tend to pop in from time to time.
In a nutshell, I'm just having a rough time with... transference (I guess). I mean with all the books I've read, and therapy I've had, this is still such an issue. Some weeks are harder than others, but it's never really gotten better. Since seeing T Thursday night, I've been pretty much incapacitated by the feelings... Feeling so little and just wanting to cry until I can see her again. I feel so ridiculous even having these feelings!
I don't know what else to do. I've already called her, but then I even started feeling the younger part taking over, so I actually feel like I got jipped out of the phone call! (She was so understanding and sweet though.) But what can I do to help myself? And why isn't this aspect getting better?
(And why do I feel like I know these answers intellectually, but emotionally it's killing me?)lgl
Posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 20:26:11
In reply to ......sigh..... transference, posted by LittleGirlLost on April 14, 2007, at 19:19:33
Nice to see you LGL.
As far as the wanting your T thing. Well, I ahve found that a nice voicemail (has to be fresh!)is good. Not all are good, but some are great! Anyway, if she says some reassuring stuff, and uses the right tone of voice, it can be very comforting to listen to, over and over as neccessary. For the most part I think I thankfully have gotten past this stuff. (REALLY hope so). But theres been times I have listened to a voicemail over and over, and it has comforted me.
For me it had something to do with not being able to somehow understand she still existed once I went away from her office or something? I just couldn't hold onto her.
Hope this eases soon for you.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by LittleGirlLost on April 14, 2007, at 22:34:32
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » LittleGirlLost, posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 20:26:11
Thanks Muffled... It's helpful to hear of others' experiences. I do have voicemails from her which I've saved, and talking to her helps. Like you, I do have trouble holding on to the connection and believing she exists when I'm not there, but after giving it more thought tonight, I know that there's more to it... a whole bunch of feelings that I'm embarrassed to admit. And they're not even "weird" or anything, well I guess to me they are... I grew up in a family where we didn't talk about or express feelings. So I struggle with giving myself permission to miss her, think about her, or even like her! Maybe this is where the additional pain is coming from? Of course I haven't been able to tell her any of this; it's like my feelings are waaaay ahead of my words.
I just hate that it's so intense; guess it's time to let her in a little, huh?I'm glad you've gotten past it; that gives me hope.
lgl
Posted by littleone on April 14, 2007, at 22:34:50
In reply to ......sigh..... transference, posted by LittleGirlLost on April 14, 2007, at 19:19:33
Hi littlegirllost, it was nice to see your name here again.
I could be wrong, but it sounds like in a way you are waiting for you T to make it better for you. In this post it sounds like you are sitting and pining away for your T until the next time you can phone/see her. Note that I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just asking if that's what your actions are.
I can't tell you what to do, or even what would best help you. But I know that for me things only improved when I learnt to accept that my T can't do this for me. That *I* have to comfort and nurture that young part.
It was (and still is) so heartbreaking to accept that. And it was really hard to carry out. I kept wanting him to rescue me and make it all better and nurture me like he would his own daughter.
One day he even told me that it would be easy for him to give me the comforting and nurturing I wanted. It would be so easy for him to do that. But that by *not* doing it, he is demonstrating how deep his caring is. That it is kinder and more healing for him to not do it and make me do it myself.
It took a long time and a lot of learning and trialing and investigating to learn what sort of things help my young part and what don't. I'm still learning now.
But I sit here now and can tell you that without a doubt I am coping with the feelings so much better now. Much better than if I was relying on my T to make things better for me.
I'm not sure if that will apply to you, but I wanted to share my story with you in case it helps (although I'm sure it would be very hard to hear and accept). I would like good things for you. Take care.
Posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 23:16:31
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » muffled, posted by LittleGirlLost on April 14, 2007, at 22:34:32
I know its hard LGL but I laughed to myself cuz I remember one time I left a voicemail for my T when she was away for 2 wks a little while back, and I said something to the effect that 'well maybe i kinda maybe missed you some when you was gone, NOT that I am attached or anything', OMG and it was like pulling my nails out to say it, or I think I kinda squeaked it out. And I wanted SO bad to take it back. I AGONIZED over having said it. Anyhow my T was SO delighted!!! You'd have thot I'd bought her a new porsche.
Sigh.
It DOES get easier....
Take care
Muffled
Posted by LittleGirlLost on April 15, 2007, at 0:08:22
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on April 14, 2007, at 22:34:50
> I could be wrong, but it sounds like in a way you are waiting for you T to make it better for you. In this post it sounds like you are sitting and pining away for your T until the next time you can phone/see her. Note that I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just asking if that's what your actions are.
>
> I can't tell you what to do, or even what would best help you. But I know that for me things only improved when I learnt to accept that my T can't do this for me. That *I* have to comfort and nurture that young part.
>Hi littleone,
You may be right... not all the time, but tonight yes, I do have the feeling of wanting my T to rescue me and make it all better. I think I mostly feel that way when I feel the younger parts more strongly. And I know you are right in saying that I am the only one who can really comfort and nurture that young part, but honestly there are times when I really just don't want to; times when I feel nothing but jealousy and resentment towards it. Is that bad? Honestly though, I do have a hard time being nurturing (sometimes) to that younger part, when really I just feel jealous because noone was there to nurture me. Or maybe I just don't know how to? (I'm good with the fun stuff though!)Thank you for sharing your story with me littleone. I like what your T said about how easy it would be to give your the comforting and nurturing that you need. Yet I can see how him not doing it, rather having you learn it instead, is better for you in the long run.
So it's quite late here and I have to be up early for work tomorrow. Funny how whenever I have these (or any) terrible/uncomfy feelings, I stay up late with them; I probably should have gone to bed hours ago! Thank you babble friends for helping me through this; tomorrow is a new day (and one day closer till this vicious cycle starts all over again. sigh.)
g'night.
LGL
Posted by LittleGirlLost on April 15, 2007, at 0:13:56
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » LittleGirlLost, posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 23:16:31
> I remember one time I left a voicemail for my T when she was away for 2 wks a little while back, and I said something to the effect that 'well maybe i kinda maybe missed you some when you was gone, NOT that I am attached or anything', OMG and it was like pulling my nails out to say it, or I think I kinda squeaked it out.
LOL Muffled! Yep, that sounds like something I would say!! And really, I want to be able to be comfortable enough with my feelings that I can just say, "I missed you" (or whatever). Ya know?
Thanks for the chuckle. :)lgl
Posted by scentedgarden on April 15, 2007, at 10:13:46
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on April 14, 2007, at 22:34:50
HI little one...
you say the following >>>>>>.
It took a long time and a lot of learning and trialing and investigating to learn what sort of things help my young part and what don't. I'm still learning now.<<<<<<<<<<<<<May i ask if you will share with us what sort of things you hav found that helps your inner child...or the younger parts of you...? Im in the same position and i feel very lost at the mo...as my theerpaist hasn't really helped me to care for myself...i just donno what to do really except take baths..!!!! my friend calls me 'the bath monster'...lol but i cant sit in the bath all day!! soemtime si have 2 a day...!!
please if you dont think it is asking too much,,,, will you sahre what things you have found which helps..???
I also talkl to my child inside...and she talks lots to me...... in a child voice... but when i do that with my T she says ,,," you're talking like a little girl again,...i want you to come back to your healthy adult head" This inturn makes me feel like she ins't interested in taking my inner child seriously aas she wont talk to her really and this pisses me off as i feel she doesnt nuture the child enough...I mean i hear what your saying about learning for yourself, but sometimes we need to be shown fisrt.!! don't we? ... if she could demonstarte then i caould follow on... but how can a lost person lead a lost person! the blind leading the blind....?? !!!!
please if you will share Id be most very grateful, but if you dont want to I understand and respect that too...!!!!
smiles
scentedgrden
Posted by littleone on April 15, 2007, at 20:45:23
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » littleone, posted by LittleGirlLost on April 15, 2007, at 0:08:22
I’m so glad you were okay with what I wrote. I was worried that it might come across the wrong way or too harsh. I really do know how awful it is to hear the message I was trying to get across.
> You may be right… not all the time, but tonight yes, I do have the feeling of wanting my T to rescue me and make it all better.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you are stuck in that feeling all the time. I have seen other posts where you are trying to help yourself. I just meant that post had that feeling around it.
> but honestly there are times when I really just don’t want to; times when I feel nothing but jealousy and resentment towards it. Is that bad?
No, it’s not bad at all. It’s just another side to listen to and respect. Recently I had a lot of bitterness and anger and resentment over the fact that I was having to do this myself. That I hadn’t gotten it as a child. That I’m still not getting it now. I don’t want to do it. I want someone to care for me and hold me and show me I’m special. I want them to make me feel warm and cozy and loved inside.
It feels like a sham if I have to give that to myself. It’s pathetic that the only place I can get it from is from me.
There is a lot of grief behind that. Grieving for what I lost or was never mine to lose. Grieving for those things I was never given. I think grief is scary to face. I bought a special journal to start a Grief Book. So those scary admittances and feelings and thoughts can be very carefully contained. But it’s still very scary just to open the Grief Book and let myself put things in there.
Do you think there’s grief behind your jealousy and resentment?
I think it’s important to accept and respect your little girl feelings for your T. It’s important to allow yourself to have them and to express them (to your T, your journal, babble, through poetry, artwork, etc). Likewise, it is important to allow yourself to have and express the jealousy and resentment. Identify what causes that and what role it plays, eg if they are covering grief, they have been filling a very important role in protecting you from that grief. That needs to be respected.
But over the top of all that, there is the important role of giving yourself that nurturing. To hear your little girl expressing her loss and sadness and yearning and to cradle her and let her know you hear that and tell her that she is very special (and show her that too in your actions).
> Honestly though, I do have a hard time being nurturing (sometimes) to that younger part, when really I just feel jealous because noone was there to nurture me. Or maybe I just don’t know how to? (I’m good with the fun stuff though!)
I find this hard too. I found it easier to learn what fun stuff helped. Harder to talk to the part and show my caring for it. That goes against everything in my nature.
I bought some Willow Tree figures. For me, those little statues portray so much feeling. I’m a very visual person, so by seeing the nurturing in the little statue, it helped me to feel that for my younger parts. I also have some soft toys of various sizes. One of them is a really good size and fit. I can cuddle it close and murmur to it and it feels like I’m nurturing the part that’s upset.
I bought a very sparkly broach for my 10 year old part. I wrote a letter with it and gave it to her one day when she was very miserable and alone. The broach served several purposes, but one of them was to remind her of how special she is and to remind her that she is not alone. That she can call on me or the young part at any time and we will talk to her. I have more parts than that, but those were the only ones I was confident could be kind to her when she needs it. The letter is very nurturing and affirming and reminds us of some important things, so it helps a lot when she’s upset.
I find it helps to talk out loud to her (when that is possible). I find that the caring words seem more solid when they’re said out loud (they seem to get lost in the jumble in my head if I just think them). Even now I find it really hard to know what to say. I am probably still really bad at this side of things. But I think the tone and the feeling behind the tone is important, so they makes it a little easier when the words themselves are hard to find.
I hope something in here helps you a little. I know that acceptance is very drawn out and hard. I circled around it and back and forth for so long (and still am). But it does get easier if you learn to accept it and to help yourself and give yourself the love that you need. It’s still sad though. The type of sad that’s deep inside. But it does help you to cope with the overwhelming feelings.
Posted by littleone on April 15, 2007, at 20:46:31
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » littleone, posted by scentedgarden on April 15, 2007, at 10:13:46
I have a few younger parts and I’ve found that different things help different parts.
My youngest part loves to take close up photos of bugs and flowers and things. I have a couple of picture books and one of them came with a tape of it being read. She likes to find special leaves and feathers and watch birds for ages. I have a hanky from my T to help comfort her. I have lots of different types of art stuff (like felt pens, crayons, pencils, etc). I have built a special safe place to hide out in. I have my little soft bird to hold. I have my special Comfort Book which has been very very good and is filled with pictures and stickers and leaves and quotes and things to remember when I’m struggling or feeling bad. It helps the young part to read it and also to add things to it. Very soothing. I have some story books that are really good, like "A Fox Called Sorrow" by Isobelle Carmody. Her little fur series is really good. I have made a big long list of things to do. It’s broken up into things to do when I feel upset or distressed or lonely or bored or other things. Places to visit, things to do. I have some of those little kid sticker books and I know that colouring in helps some people.
At present I am trying to learn to help my 10 year old parts. They like different things. Older books like Harry Potter (although the later ones in the series got scary). We’ve been visiting a special place that has lots of really interesting and educational stuff for kids. This part is very alone and desperately needs friends, so a lot of work with this part has been taking her to the places I like and telling her about them and showing her things I like to do. This is hard to do, but it has helped. She has the broach and a bigger soft toy. She has the little dinosaur. I got a couple of these one person kid games. Kind of like logic games, but they are good for kids. And we just got this thing which is like a block of plaster and it comes with a digging tool and you dig away at it like an archaeologist and find dinosaur bones in there to make up a skeleton. I’m going to do that with her maybe next weekend. The bought stuff isn’t really that important, it’s more about finding a way to be her friend and show her things and pay attention to her. I just find that a little easier by using these games and things.
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 16, 2007, at 5:09:03
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » scentedgarden, posted by littleone on April 15, 2007, at 20:46:31
WOW.! thank you for sharing...thank you soooooooooo much.
sorry this is short, but it doesnt take away from how much I appreciate you, and you lovingly sharing those very special things you do with the younger side of you.. It means alot that you went to the bother to answer me...THANK YOU *THANK YOU *THANK YOU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>God bless you...and all the preciousness about you! Take care... and thank you once again...just incase you missed it the other half dozen times I said it....( im just fooling around now as I have a little girl inside of me too... and she likes to play and be full of fun....hahahahaGratefully
Sg
Posted by LittleGirlLost on April 17, 2007, at 21:19:33
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on April 15, 2007, at 20:45:23
> Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you are stuck in that feeling all the time. I have seen other posts where you are trying to help yourself. I just meant that post had that feeling around it.
**Oh no, I totally understood what you were saying. :) Actually I was totally feeling that way the other night; just a combination of feeling little, scared, helpless, missing T, all that not so fun stuff, which from time to time becomes a little too intense... which is what prompted me to post... kinda feeling like I'm drowning in the feelings and they will never end, but I know that people here can relate and have been through it.
>
> > but honestly there are times when I really just don’t want to; times when I feel nothing but jealousy and resentment towards it. Is that bad?
>
> No, it’s not bad at all. It’s just another side to listen to and respect. Recently I had a lot of bitterness and anger and resentment over the fact that I was having to do this myself. That I hadn’t gotten it as a child. That I’m still not getting it now. I don’t want to do it. I want someone to care for me and hold me and show me I’m special. I want them to make me feel warm and cozy and loved inside.> It feels like a sham if I have to give that to myself. It’s pathetic that the only place I can get it from is from me.
**I feel horrible admitting to feeling that way, but thank you for saying it's not bad, or more importantly, that I'm not bad. Sad isn't it, that the basic need(s) of a child go unmet and now we have to give it to ourselves?! Yeah, I'd say it feels like a sham! However, I think first I have to work up to believing I am worthy of anyone's caring.
> There is a lot of grief behind that. Grieving for what I lost or was never mine to lose. Grieving for those things I was never given. I think grief is scary to face. I bought a special journal to start a Grief Book. So those scary admittances and feelings and thoughts can be very carefully contained. But it’s still very scary just to open the Grief Book and let myself put things in there.
**((hugs)) I'm sorry you also have so much grieving, much I think your idea of a Grief Book sounds like a good one. A scary thing to face, yes, but a good healing tool to be able to put it all out there.
> Do you think there’s grief behind your jealousy and resentment?
**Tons! And just the thought of it is scary! Grief? I can't even think about being sad! We haven't even gotten to crying yet... :(
> I think it’s important to accept and respect your little girl feelings for your T. It’s important to allow yourself to have them and to express them (to your T, your journal, babble, through poetry, artwork, etc). Likewise, it is important to allow yourself to have and express the jealousy and resentment. Identify what causes that and what role it plays, eg if they are covering grief, they have been filling a very important role in protecting you from that grief. That needs to be respected.
>
> But over the top of all that, there is the important role of giving yourself that nurturing. To hear your little girl expressing her loss and sadness and yearning and to cradle her and let her know you hear that and tell her that she is very special (and show her that too in your actions).**It's hard, but I think I'm at a place where I don't want to feel as bad this week as I did last week, and in order for that to happen, maybe I need to let her in a little more? I just have a hard time talking about (and admitting to) feelings. I mean I still have a hard time with the separation anxiety each week, but I know there are many other feelings involved most of which come from the place of the little girl at various ages/stages. Maybe if I can allow her feelings to be expressed things would ease up for me? Then again, I walk into her office and it's like giving a baby a pacifier... all my worries escape me, this is what I've been waiting for, and all's right in the world once again.
> > Honestly though, I do have a hard time being nurturing (sometimes) to that younger part, when really I just feel jealous because noone was there to nurture me. Or maybe I just don’t know how to? (I’m good with the fun stuff though!)
> I find this hard too. I found it easier to learn what fun stuff helped. Harder to talk to the part and show my caring for it. That goes against everything in my nature.
>
> I bought some Willow Tree figures. For me, those little statues portray so much feeling. I’m a very visual person, so by seeing the nurturing in the little statue, it helped me to feel that for my younger parts. I also have some soft toys of various sizes. One of them is a really good size and fit. I can cuddle it close and murmur to it and it feels like I’m nurturing the part that’s upset.**Oh I like those Willow Tree figurines too and have bought my therapist 2 of them actually. I also have lots of stuffed animals, and also have my favorite doll from when I was a child, but oddly, it doesn't feel like I'm nurturing the part that's upset. It's more like I regress to a childlike state when upset and use the doll to comfort me... unless that's the same thing? (But I don't feel like an adult taking care of the doll.)
> I bought a very sparkly broach for my 10 year old part. I wrote a letter with it and gave it to her one day when she was very miserable and alone. The broach served several purposes, but one of them was to remind her of how special she is and to remind her that she is not alone. That she can call on me or the young part at any time and we will talk to her. I have more parts than that, but those were the only ones I was confident could be kind to her when she needs it. The letter is very nurturing and affirming and reminds us of some important things, so it helps a lot when she’s upset.
>
> I find it helps to talk out loud to her (when that is possible). I find that the caring words seem more solid when they’re said out loud (they seem to get lost in the jumble in my head if I just think them). Even now I find it really hard to know what to say. I am probably still really bad at this side of things. But I think the tone and the feeling behind the tone is important, so they makes it a little easier when the words themselves are hard to find.
>
> I hope something in here helps you a little. I know that acceptance is very drawn out and hard. I circled around it and back and forth for so long (and still am). But it does get easier if you learn to accept it and to help yourself and give yourself the love that you need. It’s still sad though. The type of sad that’s deep inside. But it does help you to cope with the overwhelming feelings.**I like your idea of the letter and the sparkly broach :). It sounds like you've really done a lot of work in your healing process. For me, right now it's something I cannot even imagine; things are so hard to look at and accept. But I also think it's time I stop fighting myself and just let things unfold; I can trust T.
Thanks for your help! ;)
lgl
Posted by littleone on April 18, 2007, at 21:35:33
In reply to Re: ......sigh..... transference » littleone, posted by LittleGirlLost on April 17, 2007, at 21:19:33
>>**I feel horrible admitting to feeling that way, but thank you for saying it's not bad, or more importantly, that I'm not bad.
It’s never bad to feel a feeling. It’s how you act on that feeling and what you do with it that counts. You’re not bad for feeling those things. And it’s good that you are able to admit to those feelings.
>> Sad isn't it, that the basic need(s) of a child go unmet and now we have to give it to ourselves?!
Yes, incredibly sad :(
>>However, I think first I have to work up to believing I am worthy of anyone's caring.
I’m not sure about this one, it probably depends on exactly what you are meaning here. I know that for me I had to see and believe my T’s caring for me. It was very hard for me to see things – like I had blinkers on. There have been some very basic things that my T has had to explicity state before I could see them, eg the fact that he accepted me and things I said, the fact that he was building safety, the fact that all his actions over time prove his commitment and caring (rather than just looking at the most recent action/interaction).
Once I could see and believe his caring, I was able to start to accept and nurture myself.
The part I don’t agree with (although I’m not sure if it is what you’re saying or not) is that we need to believe we are worthy of other people’s caring (ie people other than our T’s) before we can move forward.
Once we can feel our T’s acceptance, I think that we need to learn to accept ourselves before other people will accept us (or we can accept their acceptance, if that makes sense). I think that if I felt my T’s acceptance and then went out into the world trying to be accepted by other people, it wouldn’t work. Because *I* still wouldn’t accept *me*. And because *I* don’t accept me, I can’t possibly believe that they would.
For me, I only started to feel worthy of caring once I started to accept and nurture myself. Once I started to have some compassion for myself. But like I said, that could only come after I was able to see and believe my T’s caring and acceptance.
>>**It's hard, but I think I'm at a place where I don't want to feel as bad this week as I did last week, and in order for that to happen, maybe I need to let her in a little more? I just have a hard time talking about (and admitting to) feelings. I mean I still have a hard time with the separation anxiety each week, but I know there are many other feelings involved most of which come from the place of the little girl at various ages/stages. Maybe if I can allow her feelings to be expressed things would ease up for me?
I think this is a very good idea. Pushing her down really does make things worse. If you let her say/write/draw what she needs to, it really does help. And if you find it hard to face the feelings and let them in, just keep trying. Keep trying over and over. Try not to beat yourself up. It does become easier to face the feelings after a while.
Re talking about and admitting to feelings (I’m guessing you mean talking to your T about them?), remember that growth comes through risk. You need to take risks to grow. They don’t have to be huge risks. Just little baby step risks. Like maybe if you try to tell your T one feeling you’re feeling during a session. Then if that goes okay you can take another step forward. Try and remember how safe and consistent your T has been. You can trust her to handle your baby step gently.
>>Then again, I walk into her office and it's like giving a baby a pacifier... all my worries escape me, this is what I've been waiting for, and all's right in the world once again.
Does your T know this? I think it is very important that she is aware of this.
>>** For me, right now it's something I cannot even imagine; things are so hard to look at and accept. But I also think it's time I stop fighting myself and just let things unfold; I can trust T.
That sounds like very good advice :) You *can* trust her. It *is* hard to stop pushing things away and instead just let them come and unfold. But it is worth all the effort in the end. Your T will hold your hand and guide you along.
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