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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 16:57:56
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:08:49
Posted by Daisym on November 7, 2006, at 17:05:30
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:08:49
I think the downside can be making comparisons between your therapy and someone else's. I am so jealous when I hear how someone else moved themselves forward, did something brave or got a hug from their therapist. I find myself upset at my therapist because he didn't do the same thing, or didn't say something or did say something! It doesn't happen very often, but it has happened. He reminds me that my therapy is "MY" therapy - and that we are creating it together. He has made certain decisions about his boundaries but he explains why or how he reached these decisions. And we usually learn something when I react to a post.
We talk about the Board a lot, actually. He is interested in what I'm discussing and how it effects me. We've had a number of discussions here about dissipating intense emotions by writing about them, instead of talking about them during sessions. But I think for most people, going 1x per week, the emotions would dissipate anyway. At least by posting, you have feedback, dialogue and a record of what you were feeling. If you can take it with you into sessions, it can be a useful thing. And I think a week can be a long time to wait with all that angst.
The other downside could be keeping Babble a secret from your therapist. Not that you have to give them the actual name of this place (I haven't) but I think you could potentially feel bad about having to keep a secret from the one person you are supposed to be able to be totally honest with.
Posted by madeline on November 7, 2006, at 19:17:27
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04
Posted by canadagirl on November 7, 2006, at 19:21:59
In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58
>>What I am thinking is maybe since us babblers are so much more informed than a lot of clients, I wonder if the knowlege we have can be used as a resistance as well against our T's.<<
Well this site has been a real eye opener (reading all the stuff that's posted on babble) and I recognize when he's using a "technique" on me (hate that anyway - rolling of eyes here ) or when he's using a typical "therapy phrase" (hate that too. Ugh. I'm too resistant.) I think this type of site makes us more aware as "therapy consumers" , don't you?
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 20:55:07
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Daisym on November 7, 2006, at 17:05:30
Interesting point about keeping this place a secret, Daisy. Because for some reason I haven't told my T about it. I had actually thought for the last few days that I would tackle that this week. Not sure why I've waited so long -- I can't imagine she won't be supportive of it. Part of me is afraid that she will come here to check what I'm writing about her. But I know that is from my past and not because I can't trust her.
I actually printed out one of my posts about her to take to her tomorrow and I'm going to try to give it to her and explain how helpful this place has been. All of you have given me the tremendous gift of knowing that my attachment to her is not totally weird.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 22:02:20
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04
Yes, I guess knowing more about their arts does make us both more confident but also more complicated clients.
At least they know that when we agree with them, we are agreeing because we KNOW that they aren't just pulling some b.s. out of their you-know-where's.
I'm going to take this statement, and perhaps make it my voice-mail greeting
"You're trying to problem solve. I need some unconditional acceptance right now."
(Dinah, ...*/babble/psycho, 2006)
With some special emPHAsis on the RiGhT NoW!! bit.
*grin*
Posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2006, at 23:32:53
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 22:02:20
It's like taking classes we're here to learn. To be able to separate the good and bad therapists. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jost on November 8, 2006, at 2:16:18
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2006, at 23:32:53
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking if you want to resist and Pbabble is at hand-- you'll use Pbabble. If you've never heard of Pbabble-- you'll come up with something that does the job.
for example:
You sound just like my father! No-- I don't feel like talking about my father.
Or:(silence....) ...... (piecing stare at the wall)
...
Maybe Pbabble adds a weapon to the arsenal of resistance; but I'm not sure that makes it more--or less-- possible to resist.
Jost
Posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59
In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58
>I just wonder if I knew less about the therapy process, if I would concentrate on the therapy in the room and not on the outside stuff.
This was definately true with me. I read a ton of Psych books at one time. I have figured out that I did that because I didn't trust my therapist to be smart enough to figure out what to do. I thought I needed to know what was going on, or therapy wouldn't work.
But when I started to trust him, and just be present in the sessions. When I stopped trying to make sure the therapy was doing what I "wanted". This is when the therapy started to work.
Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 9:17:33
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59
Hi Falls,
I think I need to let go too, and let it happen. I think I also read as much as I could about therapy because I didn't know anything about it and because of trust.
I believe I have learned to trust him and that took a long time, a little trust at a time, and now I trust him completely. But I believe I will always be on guard a little.
Do you think Falls, that your therapy is working better now that you trust him and are using him instead of the books to help you?
I just hope he will still work with me, we were going to start termination at the end of the year with spreading out my apppointment, but now I feel like I probably need to go weekly. It has been almost 2 years and I know he normally doesn't go this long with most of his clients, so I am scared of him leaving me. He once told me that he trusts I will know when time will be right, he said he might push me a little, but the decsion will be mine. He also said I don't have one little clog in single house, he said I have a condo building of many clogs to clear up.
How long did it take you falls before you just let therapy happen? How long have you been with your T? I think I might be ready.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 10:01:55
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59
My experience of just trusting him and expecting him to lead me where I should go is that I get enormously frustrated and so does he.
He doesn't like that at all.
My experience of trusting the therapy and expecting that it will go where it needs to go, is that the therapy drifts.
Maybe it's because he normally does short term therapy and is treading in new waters with me. But he likes me as an active partner who asks for what I want or need.
Which doesn't mean that he does whatever I want or need. He's clear with who he is and what he does. But he wants me to ask anyway. The answer may be no, but he's teaching me it's ok to ask for what you can't get. And that getting a no doesn't mean that you're a terrible person.
I think it really depends a whole lot on the individual client and the individual therapist and what people are working on.
My basic relationship style is to be passive. I don't long for control, I avoid responsibility at all costs. I play the little girl, and ask that someone else take care of me, and while I might whine about how they do it, I don't much really care whether they're great at it or not, as long as they accept responsibility. I stayed in a toxic environment until I was thirty because I *liked* being a daughter.
Maybe he does have a plan. Or maybe he just doesn't like dependent women. Or maybe it's pure dumb luck. For whatever reason, I'm getting better (gasp!). So there are lots of ways to get better. Each person needs to find the "right" way for themselves.
But I'm not sure it's a bad thing to be informed about whether a therapist's behavior is ethical, or assessing whether you're getting better.
I don't think it would come as a shock to anyone to learn that not all therapists are competent, not all are ethical, and certainly not all are the right fit for any given client.
Trust? Sure. But trusting and locking the door anyway isn't a bad thing.
Posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 10:01:55
I'd like to add that I think there is a big difference in researching things and Babble. Babble, for me, normalizes things, offers support and things to think about. Researching, for me, is my way of looking for a shortcut. Or a way to channel the freak out of asking one person to hold so much stuff for me.
I love sessions where we debate theory and I figure out how it applies to me or our work. And he never lets me stay there for long -- it is always back to those darn emotions. I think he figure this out about me a long time ago - I have a huge need to intellectually understand things. The down side is that in my angry, stubborn tantrum period I'd resist the technique on purpose. Especially the repeating the last few words that I said (like it was a question) to get me to say more -- I'd start to elaborate and then catch myself and say "right." (Arms folded, glare, glare.)
I'm laughing at how I must have looked. I'm sooo glad no video tapes are allowed in my therapy!
:(
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 12:26:58
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18
I'm still glad that there's no record of my current therapy. I can be stubborn and unreasonable and whiny and all the less attractive qualities. :)
Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 13:09:04
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18
Dinah, you said something that sort of resonated with me. That your try to intellectly understand things in therapy, I do that too. But now I feel like okay I know the stuff, heck I am studying in school, but I need to do the actual work now of healing which is an indivdual thing. I have healed a lot during this time, but I need to go deeper I think. Maybe some EMDR.
Posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 19:38:41
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 13:09:04
I'm not criticizing -- I'm asking this in a soft, curious tone -- OK?
Isn't EMDR still employing a "technique"? Isn't it still selecting what you are going to work on, instead of just seeing what comes up?
I'm not taking issue with whether this is a good idea or not. Just that if you want to "sink" into therapy and let it just happen, doesn't EMDR interfere with the spontaneity of that? I know you have to trust a great deal to agree to this technique. But...
Just asking the question...
Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 19:38:41
I am not sure exactly what you mean, but I will try to explain EMDR.
You do pick a distrubing memories(usually the worst one) and while you are doing the EMDR, it helps with the memory you pick, and it also can take some hidden forgotten or surpressed ones along with it. Or it can (not usually, but it did it for me) bring out a lot worse memory than what you were working on and kept it at the surface. (this is unusal though, out of 300 or so people my T used this on, it only happened to me and one other women. It sort of unlocks your brain and lets you process the memory that is frozen.
So for me allowing him to do EMDR again, with the possiblity of a worse memory coming out, scares me because I did dissociate when during the abuse. (even this is not as common as we think because most people remember bad things that happen to them. ) But with repeated abuse and torture, it can happen especially as a child.
I guess what I was talking about just letting it happen, was letting my T direct and control more of the session instead of me. I think I need to let myself trust him to do his job and let things fall where they do.
I don't know if this is what you are asking, LOL My brain is toast, I am studying for an Abnormal Pysch exam and trying to remember all about personality disorders, eating disorders, sucside, and mood disorder while going through my own problems too. LOL
Posted by Jost on November 8, 2006, at 20:18:15
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40
Reading helped me a lot.
For one thing, it gave me some hope, when things were extremely difficult. It gave me hope because I saw that certain situations recurred, that therapists had a vocabulary and emotional process and theoretical framework that could encompass, empathize and work with many things that were extremely intense, and even seemed hopeless.
Plus, it gave me a very good idea of what theories were around about the mind, about the therapeutic relationship, and therefore gave me a way of evaluating what different people had to offer, what their world view was likely to be, and whether I felt comfortable in it.
Finally, I never would have found the therapist I have now, because I became aware of different people to interview and to get referrals from. Eventually, I got a referral to the person I see now, whom I never would have known about or tried to see, if I hadn't done that reading.
Reading or knowing how therapy works, IMO, is like anything-- it can be used for or used against yourself-- in or out of the room.
Jost
Posted by Daisym on November 9, 2006, at 0:45:53
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40
This is what I was talking about. I was just musing that if you pick the memory to work on, which is my understanding of EMDR and you decide to use EMDR, then there isn't "just" a flow of things.
Not that this is bad. I think sometimes framing what you plan to do is incredibly useful. Like you said, other things happen from this jumping off part.
Posted by SatinDoll on November 9, 2006, at 7:02:08
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll, posted by Daisym on November 9, 2006, at 0:45:53
OHHHHHHHHHHH! Okay, I get what you are talking about! LOL Yup, you are right, it isn't exactly going with the flow! ;-)
It is kinda of funny that since I have been in school, I feel more like an idiot than not, because when my brain is full from studying, nothing else gets in . I feel like such a dohdoh bird! LOL
Posted by Fallsfall on November 10, 2006, at 7:25:51
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » Fallsfall, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 9:17:33
I did CBT therapy for 8 1/2 years, and then switched to this therapist 3 1/2 years ago. It took probably 1 1/2 years to trust this guy enough to believe that I didn't have to watch over the therapy. I never did trust my first therapist that way.
When I stopped trying to control the therapy, I was more able to be introspective - to see what was going on with me. It also let me be less judgemental of myself - to accept that whatever I was feeling was what I was feeling and to go from there. Rather than to try to feel the "right" way, because it fit my view of how I "should" feel.
I have made more progess in the last 2 years than the previous 9.
Good luck!
Posted by Fallsfall on November 10, 2006, at 7:31:19
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40
>I guess what I was talking about just letting it happen, was letting my T direct and control more of the session instead of me. I think I need to let myself trust him to do his job and let things fall where they do.
My therapist does NOT control my therapy. He does not direct things at all. When I ask him to, he refuses. The difference with me now is that *I* dont' "control" my therapy, either. It just sort of happens. Maybe that is why it was so scary for me - Nobody is in "control" - we are just living together (!?) and looking at what happens.
Posted by SatinDoll on November 10, 2006, at 8:28:14
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 10, 2006, at 7:31:19
Thanks Falls,
You have given me a lot to thing about! ;-) Which I will do when my exam is over today in 4 more hours, then yippee! my mind is free from required thinking and I can turn into jello!
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 10, 2006, at 12:10:18
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 10, 2006, at 7:25:51
> I have made more progess in the last 2 years than the previous 9.hi Falls,
I'm so happy for you- This might sound incredibly naive, but I kind of worry that I might get habituated to therapy and stop making progress (or at least stop recognizing/appreciating it). So, on the one hand I worry about whether I really NEED long term therapy, and on the other hand whether I can actually USE long term therapy.thanks for your positive outlook,
-Li
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2006, at 17:28:49
In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58
There was something I really wanted to ask my therapist about this thread, but of course I couldn't remember what it was. While I tried to remember, we discussed it generally a bit.
I was right in my estimation of his preferences. He likes the fact that I know a lot about therapy. He thinks that sophisticated therapy users are more able to use therapy effectively.
He's not threatened by knowledge, or even that I discuss him here. (Of course, he doesn't read...)
He doesn't worry that I'll dilute the emotional intensity here. He doesn't really find that I do that, or intellectualize too much, or try to control the direction of therapy. He said, as Jost did, that it's like anything else. Babble can be used to further therapy or to resist it, depending on how it's used.
(((my therapist)))
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2006, at 17:32:57
In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 10, 2006, at 7:31:19
That sounds just right, Falls. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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