![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
At least, I THINK she did. It feels like she did.
In early July, I gave her a large envelope of things I'd written...mostly during the first time I saw her. There were several things in there about csa (wish we could change the font size b/c I'd like to make that really, really small). It was something I'd alluded to that first go round; but I could never really talk about it and would clam up and go mute any time she brought it up. So, once I'd been seeing her again for a while, it seemed like it'd be o.k. for her to read about it, even if I couldn't talk and I gave her the envelope. The next session, she mentioned that she'd started looking through it and what she'd felt was the sense of aloneness. That's all she said...ever. Never mentioned it since.
Fast forward to today. We were talking about sleep and she was starting in about studies that say we shouldn't use our bed for anything other than sleeping. I teared up and she asked why. I said, "That's not what not being able to sleep is about. Bed isn't a safe place." She asked if I remembered new things in the time we weren't working together. I told her I'd remembered things when we were working together the FIRST time, had written about a lot of it, and asked if she'd read what I'd given her.
She admitted that she hadn't. I figured as much, yet hearing it was very painful. In giving it to her, I felt I was offering something big and she didn't even bother to look at it. Not REALLY look. She did apologize and said that because I gave it to her I must have really wanted her to know. I squeaked out an "it's o.k." But it really isn't o.k. and the more I think about it, the less o.k. it feels.
I've been trying so hard to keep her at a distance. So, I'm completely horrified that I'm reacting to this so strongly. She got in there somehow and I didn't even see it coming. She said she'd read it all this week and it freaks me out to know that. Part of me hopes she'll call before my next appointment...to not wait in affirming that there are some BIG things she had and ignored. And part of me just wants to be done with her completely.
I really, really hate this.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 24, 2006, at 16:58:08
In reply to My therapist really screwed up, posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
I'm so sorry. This sounds really, really hard. I know I'd be devastated if my T did this to me. But (as my T reminds me frequently) they ARE human, as much as we wish otherwise. So if this is one mistake and otherwise she does good work with you, I'd try to get past it.
I hear that you want to keep her at arm's length, but maybe that's not the best way to deal with this? Or maybe at least admit to her that it doesn't feel safe? to let her in.
I'm sorry it's so hard.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 19:24:24
In reply to Re: My therapist really screwed up » jammerlich, posted by TherapyGirl on October 24, 2006, at 16:58:08
Jammerlich,
That's so awful. You feel betrayed.I'm reassured by one thing, though. Your T didn't open the envelop prematurely. She held on to it, and didn't try to get a jump-start on your stuff before you were ready.
Now that you're ready- you gotta get it out. You please keep her close to you, even though you want to get far far away of reminders of that betrayal.
Please try to remember that you've lived through the hardest stuff. You are here, and that's proof that you can survive this discomfort too.
Your T screwed up big time. She will be there for you though, when you're ready. If you've decided to wait a little longer until therapy is "safe", that's perfectly reasonable.
If you bring up how disappointed and hurt you are, you can work on it with her. You can show yourself that she's okay, unlike other people that have hurt you.
safe cyber hugs for you jammerlich-- please hang in there, and ask for help if you need it, okay? Even if you have to ask the person who hurt you for the help. That's a powerful opportunity to learn to trust your T again.
-Li
Posted by SatinDoll on October 24, 2006, at 22:32:45
In reply to Re: My therapist really screwed up, posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 19:24:24
(((((jammer)))) I hope you can find it in you to tell her how you feel, maybe show her your post. You will be okay.
Posted by Daisym on October 24, 2006, at 23:45:47
In reply to My therapist really screwed up, posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
It is sad and scary and a bunch of other things that don't feel good to figure out how attached you are because of how hurt you feel.
But she didn't lie to you. And that is really huge.
And now she is going back and working on fixing this by reading your stuff and catching up. It is always hard to be reminded that it is up to us to bring up the hard stuff -- even if we've given it to them to read.
I hope you feel better soon. Waiting is too hard.
Posted by pegasus on October 25, 2006, at 9:26:05
In reply to My therapist really screwed up, posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
Oh, wow, yes I think your therapist screwed that one up. I have a hard time understanding how she could have not read what you gave her. I mean, not if she accepted the envelope full of stuff in the first place. If she wasn't going to have time to read it, she should have told you that when you gave it to her. Which would have hurt, but probably not more than this, and it would have been more honest.
Although, I do give her credit for not lying about having read your stuff when she didn't. At least she's admiting her mistake (she is admitting that it was a mistake not to read what you gave her, isn't she?).
Oh, it hurts, though, doesn't it? My ex-T used to not give me enough response when I gave him things to read also. I guess the idea was that I was supposed to bring up what was important. But it's confusing, because I thought I *was* bringing it up by giving him those things to read. It always felt like he dropped the ball when he didn't then respond. Was I supposed to give him all my writings and then *also* bring it up in sessions? I guess so. That hurts; it feels like disinterest from the T.
Anyway, do let us know how it goes when you talk to her after she reads your stuff. I hope things get a lot better from here for you.
p
Posted by jammerlich on October 26, 2006, at 18:25:26
In reply to Re: My therapist really screwed up, posted by pegasus on October 25, 2006, at 9:26:05
Today has not been good and I just don't have the energy to respond to everyone; but, I wanted you all to know that I am reading and appreciate your words of support and advice very much.
It does hurt quite a lot, whether it should or not. I'm just not sure I can bring myself to tell her that. I am so ashamed of my response. And telling her would seem too intimate and I'm scared of having that with her.
Posted by muffled on October 26, 2006, at 22:03:11
In reply to My therapist really screwed up, posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
> At least, I THINK she did. It feels like she did.
***Yes she did
>It was something I'd alluded to that first go round; but I could never really talk about it and would clam up and go mute any time she brought it up.
***And a good T won't put ANY ideas into your head. They will wait until you say it yourself.
So, once I'd been seeing her again for a while, it seemed like it'd be o.k. for her to read about it, even if I couldn't talk and I gave her the envelope.
***Now THAT was brave. good for you.
The next session, she mentioned that she'd started looking through it and what she'd felt was the sense of aloneness. That's all she said...ever. Never mentioned it since.
***Well, once again she may have been waiting for you to start stuff. I run into that with my T.
But what irks me, is that she quite possibly lied bout starting to read it. Was the ca stuff in the early parts or not until later? If it was later, it may be that she hadn't got to it yet.
>
> Fast forward to today. Bed isn't a safe place."***(((Jammer)))) :-(
Did she respond well to that statement? Was she kind?>nd asked if she'd read what I'd given her.
>
> She admitted that she hadn't. I figured as much, yet hearing it was very painful. In giving it to her, I felt I was offering something big and she didn't even bother to look at it. Not REALLY look. She did apologize and said that because I gave it to her I must have really wanted her to know. I squeaked out an "it's o.k." But it really isn't o.k. and the more I think about it, the less o.k. it feels.***That must have hurt alot. Cuz just saying it to someone else is so huge.
You must have been on tenterhooks wondering.
At least she apologised. She realized she screwed up. She IS human. But whydo T's have to screw up important stuff??? My T screwed up something important once too. She apologised. I said its ok....sigh
>
> I've been trying so hard to keep her at a distance. So, I'm completely horrified that I'm reacting to this so strongly. She got in there somehow and I didn't even see it coming. She said she'd read it all this week and it freaks me out to know that. Part of me hopes she'll call before my next appointment...to not wait in affirming that there are some BIG things she had and ignored. And part of me just wants to be done with her completely.***Well, if it was my T, she wouldn't call. She NEVER calls unless I ask her to.
I dunno, mebbe its some T thing that you don't phoneclient, even if they written something pretty bad.
I dunno?
You got alot on your plate already w/o T screwing up at this time, and adding anger and fear and resentment and who knows what all triggery stuff to your plate.
But imo you need to straighten this out w/her, and it will help. Running away will not help. The greatest act of courage is to keep going even when something like this happens.
>
> I really, really hate this.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
It does hurt quite a lot, whether it should or not. I'm just not sure I can bring myself to tell her that. I am so ashamed of my response. And telling her would seem too intimate and I'm scared of having that with her***It SHOULD hurt.
You goto tell her or it will poison your relationship with her. If you tell her it can make your realtionship very strong.
My T relationship got most stronger when I had anger at her, and we were able to resolve it mostly, together.
Your response is good. SHE screwed up, she knows it.
I always tell my T hard stuff in writing and then I fax it to her in a brave moment, and then I can't get it back! Which is good.
And then you can talk bout it.
Go for it Jammer. Its hard , but SO worth it.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on October 26, 2006, at 22:04:04
In reply to Re: My therapist really screwed up » jammerlich, posted by muffled on October 26, 2006, at 22:03:11
Posted by jammerlich on October 28, 2006, at 19:30:26
In reply to and if I being stupid, sorry (nm), posted by muffled on October 26, 2006, at 22:04:04
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.
Yes, my T was kind when I said that the bed didn't feel safe. We talked some about how and where I usually sleep and where I slept a lot as a kid. Anyone else out there who likes it better in a closet or corner? I feel like a freak sometimes. I can sit on my bed all day and be on the computer or watch TV; but, I can't sleep there very often.
I wish I were as brave as you are, Muffly. You wanna call my T for me and tell her my feelings were hurt because she didn't read my silly writing? I'm just scared of her. Well, maybe not HER, but definitely of having a real relationship with her. Because it will probably feel good and I'll like it and then, eventually, I WILL have to lose it. I really feel like I've lost quite enough already.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 28, 2006, at 23:27:23
In reply to Muffly is NEVER stupid » muffled, posted by jammerlich on October 28, 2006, at 19:30:26
> I feel like a freak sometimes. I can sit on my bed all day and be on the computer or watch TV; but, I can't sleep there very often.
Oh- you have no idea. I used to love it when the family went on vacation, because I could pretend to be mad that I had to sleep on the floor- actually I was SOOO happy- I could take a comforter and a pillow and cram myself into a hotel closet. once I slept in the bathtub. or in some strange nook. Yes, I understand perfectly. If I put up enough of a fuss, I might even get some little treat from my parents, or some recognition of how hard it was to be the only girl... ha!
Even these days, when husband and I have a fight, or there's a thunderstorm (or a mental thunderstorm), I pick up the comforter and a pillow and I sleep in the nook between the bed and the wall, or perhaps in the walk in closet (if it's been picked up recently). It doesn't have to be big, because I'll be curled up like a shrimp, in my fetal position.
-Li
Posted by jammerlich on October 29, 2006, at 20:32:35
In reply to Re: Muffly is NEVER stupid » jammerlich, posted by Lindenblüte on October 28, 2006, at 23:27:23
Thanks, Li. I've been thinking a lot about my closet lately. I haven't moved much stuff into this apartment, so the closet is pretty empty. My idea is that I could make it a really neat place for myself....a lamp, lots of pretty fabric and some big, fluffy cushions on the floor. Maybe a CD player, too. But, the kicker is that I'd have to hide it from people. It's something I'd just rather not have to explain.
Posted by sunnydays on October 29, 2006, at 21:29:14
In reply to Re: Muffly is NEVER stupid » Lindenblüte, posted by jammerlich on October 29, 2006, at 20:32:35
I think that sounds like just such a great idea. I would LOVE a place like that. I think that if it's at all possible and it would give you a place you could feel comfortable and safe, you should do it. Everyone has their own little quirks -- I really don't think people would think it was particularly weird. I know I wouldn't -- I would love to do that, but I don't have a closet, just a big armoire type thing. Let us know if you decide to do it.
sunnydays
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 22:19:20
In reply to Re: Muffly is NEVER stupid » Lindenblüte, posted by jammerlich on October 29, 2006, at 20:32:35
Oooh! I'm so jealous!
The wonderful thing about a closet hideout is that you can close the doors when people come over. If one of your friends notices, just say that you like to have a "reading nook" but your apartment only has a closet.Maybe your closet doesn't come with doors? you can use a heavy curtain. I think it sounds like a lovely getaway. Sounds like a fun project too!
-Li
Posted by jammerlich on October 30, 2006, at 20:02:49
In reply to Re: Muffly is NEVER stupid » jammerlich, posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 22:19:20
And I am terrified. ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED.
I am in a state of panic. I am going to go in there and she is going to *know* -- know all these bad, bad things about me. I am so ashamed. I don't know how I'll ever be able to look at her....or her me. Can't I just run away from it all? I really, really want to.
I'm also worried that I might get there and she'll tell me she didn't read, for some reason or another. What would that mean about me and what she thinks of me? I guess I shouldn't be putting myself through all these what-ifs, but it's awfully hard not to.
Have I mentioned how much I hate this? Well, I do. I really, really hate this.
Posted by Anneke06 on October 30, 2006, at 20:37:54
In reply to I see her in the morning, posted by jammerlich on October 30, 2006, at 20:02:49
You have no reason to be ashamed....remember that. The bad things that happened to you were not your fault...there are people out there who should feel very ashamed...but not you. I know that's easier said than done, but I just wanted to remind you that you are not bad...just like Muffy is NEVER stupid; Jammerlich is NEVER bad.
The what ifs are killers. I'm sure she's read the stuff you gave her and if she didn't, she's going to have a full complement of Babblers there ready to (virtually) kick her butt. Take that visual with you if it helps get you through the door. You could run away, but I fear "it" will run after you and then you'd be running away from the help your therapist can offer.
Hang in there Jammer....you're precious to many. I hope you're able to get some sleep tonight.
Posted by sunnydays on October 30, 2006, at 21:10:43
In reply to I see her in the morning, posted by jammerlich on October 30, 2006, at 20:02:49
(((((((jammerlich))))))
I soooo understand your fear, and I wish more than I can say that I could take it away from you. But just think - in less than 24 hours you will have seen her, and whatever happens, you will have survived, and be stronger for it. I so hope that she answers positively and supportively for you.
sunnydays
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 30, 2006, at 21:38:23
In reply to I see her in the morning, posted by jammerlich on October 30, 2006, at 20:02:49
Good luck. I know this is scary, but I believe you are doing the right thing. I'll be thinking about you.
(((((((Jammerlich)))))))
Posted by Jost on October 31, 2006, at 0:37:17
In reply to Re: I see her in the morning » jammerlich, posted by TherapyGirl on October 30, 2006, at 21:38:23
Hi, jammerlich.
I'm sorry your T screwed up. You have good reason to feel hurt.
But, you know-- it still could be a really important moment for you both.
As Muffly says-- it could be the turning point, a point at which your relationship begins to become much deeper and more open, and a more profound trust develops. It could also hurt the relationship, if she screws up again, or can't meet you where you need her--
but I am hopeful that she can. I think that you can.
It may sound odd-- but sometimes when Ts screw up really badly, as your T did, for all this time-- without your knowing-- there's a reason-- a meaning-- behind it . And sometimes, when it becomes clear that one's T has screwed up, it's because you're both ready to deal with whatever's gone wrong.
Perhaps this isn't random, or accident-- maybe it reflects something about your history and your way of processing or not processing things-- and hers-- and can show how she can really help you rework some of the old trauma and loss; but it's too soon to think much about that, or to need to move beyond the feeling of hurt--
You've been extremely brave and steadfast this week, which I admire alot.
It is important, as others have said, too, to tell her your feelings-- of being hurt. Maybe you can't tell her that much, right now-- but it's such a very important thing-- your entrusting her with the envelop, and her letting you down so badly by failing to read it.
I'll be thinking about you tomorrow, for certain. --- I hope you know that.
Jost
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2006, at 12:58:24
In reply to I see her in the morning, posted by jammerlich on October 30, 2006, at 20:02:49
How are you doing?
Posted by joslynn on October 31, 2006, at 13:02:59
In reply to My therapist really screwed up, posted by jammerlich on October 24, 2006, at 16:46:03
I'm sorry that happened.
I have a really good T, but I have noticed that when I do bring things in for her to read, she doesn't seem as interested as when I say things out loud.
I brought in some therapuetic poems I had written, and was expecting that during the next session, we would have this big talk about them, with her writing comments on the poems like an english teacher. But that didn't happen. (To be honest, I don't remember what we spoke about, maybe the content in general, but not speciffics.) Since I am a writer by trade, this hurt me.
Over time though, I have realized that she is more interested in what I say here and now, in that room, or even on the phone. It's just a thing of hers.
She is a really good therapist in every other way, she is just more interested in what I say than in what I write. I think she wants me to find my voice in person. So I decided to let that one go and try to verbalize more things in person.
However, I don't have anything as traumatic as CSA in my background, so it's easier for me to say things in person than it is for a CSA survivor.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be hurt, just offering the idea that it could be that your T is more interested in your words in person, and what you say in the room. Of course, to us here, the written things are just as important, but I don't think they truly get that sometimes.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 31, 2006, at 13:54:54
In reply to Re: My therapist really screwed up, posted by joslynn on October 31, 2006, at 13:02:59
Hi Joslynn,
> However, I don't have anything as traumatic as CSA in my background, so it's easier for me to say things in person than it is for a CSA survivor.
>I'm glad to hear that you don't have CSA in your background. BUT I'm kind of wondering why you said it like this? I'm my own twisted mind, I read your sentence above and my mind creates this meaning:
"You sufferred something far more traumatic than I did, so it's harder for you to say things in person because you are a survivor".
I guess I just wonder if that's what you meant? I'm not sure that it's useful or supportive to arrange our personal experiences into some heirarchy of pains, hurts, sufferings, traumas and horrors.
I think we all hurt in our own special ways, for our own special reasons. There are commonalities, and differences in experience, even for identical twins who grow up with the same genes and in the same household.
I want to be able to support you, joslynn AND jammerlich AND all the other babblers, regardless of any differences in background.
********
I felt that my exT was actually angry at me for writing him e-mails at one point. He seemed hostile, so I only reserved it for very special occasions, like when I felt like killing myself.
And of course, he'd see me at my next session, and say "so, what's up with the e-mails?" I thought he was angry at me, but with a little more distance, I'm really *hoping* to think that he was only frustrated with me, because my e-mails communicated things in a very different way than my face-to-face sessions did. Face to face, with a man who I think has a short fuse-- heck, I even KNOW he's intolerant of certain behaviors!-- I could be a very good actress, even though I told myself that I was being honest. Of course, that's the madness! I WAS being honest, but I wasn't telling him the *whole* truth...
I guess we all have our different reasons for having problems communicating our disappointments in the therapeutic relationship. I'm still trying to sort through what happened with my exT.
I'm sorry if I was a little hard on you joslynn, I think your post was really supportive. I just got that one sentence stuck in my head, and I couldn't NOT respond to it. Please tell me to eat elephant dung, or just imagine it, if you're angry at me.
I'm really happy that you have a good T. The fact that she's most comfortable in a face to face relationship is probably because she's so good! Otherwise, she might have ended up as an author :)
-Li
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2006, at 14:17:35
In reply to ***triggers*** » joslynn, posted by Lindenblüte on October 31, 2006, at 13:54:54
I'm not speaking for Joslynn, but I can imagine saying that and all I'd be talking about is what needs to be said, not who was saying it. There are some topics that are just inherently harder to talk about than others, for most people.
It wouldn't have anything to do with the nature of people who have CSA in their background, since they can't be lumped in a group any more than any other people with similar experiences can be. In fact, I'm lucky I don't have a therapist who works backwards from symptoms. I always feel guilty because a fair number of my problems are supposed to be ones that only people with abuse in their backgrounds experience. That makes me feel like some sort of fake. :( Like I don't deserve to have this cluster of behaviors and I should stop having them at once. So I guess it works in both directions.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.