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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
Hate it!
More to follow...
gg
Posted by sunnydays on October 20, 2006, at 19:20:32
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
Me too, me too.
sunnydays
Posted by Declan on October 20, 2006, at 19:58:03
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
On depression, do you all think that depression is (shall we say) a sign of something seriously wrong, like a canary in the coalmine thing, or do you think it's a kinda discrete on its own thing? People say 'I have depression'. Well, what's wrong with that? After all you can say "I have syndrome X (metabolic syndrome)."
Am I right in thinking that apart from having drugs to treat it we don't know much about it? One day we will, which will lead to better treatments.
Posted by sunnydays on October 20, 2006, at 20:23:06
In reply to Re: God, I hate depression!, posted by Declan on October 20, 2006, at 19:58:03
Nothing wrong with having it, it just is something that can be hated because it feels so horrible. And I think it can be just a discrete thing because it has definite biological components.
sunnydays
Posted by annierose on October 20, 2006, at 20:44:20
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
((((((((GG)))))))))))
Could the depression be linked to therapy? I know it's scary (at least I would be). Can you continue a while longer to see if this depressive episode subsides?
I was thinking of you this afternoon on my drive home from work. It's funny how people pop up in my brain and then I look on the net and there they are.
I hope things will improve soon. It's been a long summer for you.
Will this bring a smile?
Let's play CARDS!! Go TIGERS!
Posted by wishingstar on October 20, 2006, at 21:01:43
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
Posted by Racer on October 20, 2006, at 21:13:36
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
Yeah, depression is not our friend. I hate it, and I hate it's bosom buddy, anxiety, too.
Good thing we've got other friends, especially the redheaded ones, to help protect us, huh?
xoxo
Posted by mair on October 20, 2006, at 22:07:47
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
Yeah, it's a pretty tricky adversary. When I feel really depressed, I feel powerless to fight it. When I don't have those physical sensations i associate with depression (anxiety, for one), I spend half my time trying to convince my T that I don't have depression at all and that all the incredibly negative things I'm thinking about myself are just realistic assessments of an inept and incompetent person.
mair
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2006, at 22:54:43
In reply to Re: God, I hate depression! » gardenergirl, posted by mair on October 20, 2006, at 22:07:47
I don't hate depression. Just the enormous weight of carrying around the world...and the need to cry at every little thing...and the lack of energy to do anything useful...I hate all those things.
But the depression itself - ah...Ok, maybe.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
First, thanks to all who've replied. I wish I could reply individually, but I don't have the energy or brain power tonight. But I appreciated each and every one of your replies. And I feel for all of you who are also struggling with this.
So here's the thing as I've got it figured out so far (thanks in part to a special redheaded woman's patience, caring, and wisdom).
I'm depressed. Again. It's been building (or would that be destroying?) for awhile, but it's pretty much here now. God, I hate hate hate recurrent depression. The recurrent part in and of itself is depressing.
Today I saw a new pdoc and then had therapy right after. The new pdoc is in the same clinic as my T, so it's a very good arrangement, although two appts in two hours was probably a bad idea.
I liked him. I felt heard and understood. I felt validated. He had suggestions for med changes, which is good, though I'm having all kinds of freak outs about it. As far as that goes, though I know better, and I know that it's no shame, etc., I'm having a very difficult time with how many meds I'm on. I never ever imagined that I would be on so many psychotropics. Up til about 3 years ago, it was pretty much always a single antidepressant. Somehow in my stupid (not really, but ya know...), rejection-sensitive, give too much weight to what "society says" even if "society" is wrong world, I feel terrible for "having to" take so many meds. It feels demoralizing and something to be ashamed of. I know that's not true. My rational side knows that, but I've just been weeping all day. Pdoc had a very good response to that, though. He said that when folks are more depressed or more anxious, there are more receptors in need of attention or "stuff" (neurotransmitters), so ya need more "stuff". Makes sense, and he said it in a kind and comforting way. But still, I feel awful. And I know better about all these associations and thoughts about meds and so on, which really bugs me.
I'm going to take some time to process what he said and decide what I want to try adding (low dose Lithium, which is also freaking me out due to the stigma, even though I know better; Wellbutrin, or a low dose atypical AP.)
The other part is that he said that changing more than one variable at a time makes it difficult to figure out what's effecting what. And starting with a new pdoc and making a med change while terminating therapy at the same time might not be the best course. And that terminating therapy when you're much more depressed might also be a bad idea.
So since I had therapy right after, we talked about this--how it may or may not be connected to my current depression, why we decided to terminate in the first place, etc. At the end of the session, my T recommended we continue at least for awhile. That certainly seems very reasonable. And given how painful termination has been, and how far removed I feel from how good I was doing when we first discussed it, you'd think that would feel like a big relief. That I'd feel happy about it, or at least good about. But I have mixed feelings. Or rather, I feel sort of numb. I know that I don't feel a big relief, as in "Oh thank God, now I don't have to stop." And I don't feel like, "Oh, I must be awful. Look at me, I can't even stop." I just feel numb. In fact, I didn't even give him an answer about it, but instead said that we didn't have to make any decisions about it just then. I did say that I didn't know what else we'd talk about. He didn't say anything to that, but we both laughed a tiny bit when I said, "Guess that's never been a problem, eh?"
Bleah! I suppose I'm just numb and sort of flat, well, if you don't count all the weeping. So that may be part of why I just don't feel any reaction that I can pinpoint. Similarly, I had the same sort of flat reaction when my T asked me how it went with my pdoc. You could tell that he was very interested. And he thinks very highly of him. He also knows what the last pdoc was like (Oy!). And though I feel good about how it went, I just couldn't muster up much in the way of enthusiasm or positive energy. Which didn't so much seem to disappoint him, but I don't think he was expecting it. I honestly don't know that he was aware of how much I really am depressed. Heck, until this week, I guess I wasn't aware.
Major heavy sigh.
God, I hate this. And I hate that I'll always have depression to some extent. It's always going to be lurking, and I could have another depressive episode even if I'm doing "everything right." For the last couple of years, I've had them, but I seemed to be able to recognize them much quicker and get back out of it sooner. Not this time. Which just sucks. Sucks sucks sucks.
This must be similar to what my husband faces each day in dealing with his Type I diabetes. Which sucks.
Feeling very blue, very negative, and very pitiful right now....
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:22:47
In reply to Re: God, I hate depression! » gardenergirl, posted by annierose on October 20, 2006, at 20:44:20
My only Tigers attire these days is a ratty old button down short sleeve pinstriped "jersey", which I wear when coloring my hair. So it's um, tiger colored around the neck.
Hmmm, maybe time to invest in something new?
Looking forward to getting out my broom. ;)
Now it's off to take a hot bath and go to bed. Marriage counseling tomorrow. After that, I expect to be toast. Too much therapy in two days.
'night
gg
Posted by Racer on October 21, 2006, at 1:48:44
In reply to More. And more. Wound up long, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
>
> So here's the thing as I've got it figured out so far (thanks in part to a special redheaded woman's patience, caring, and wisdom).If she's reading this, I'll bet she's feeling pretty special right now. What a sweet thing to say.
>
God, I hate hate hate recurrent depression. The recurrent part in and of itself is depressing.I do know something you might find worse, though: the new pdoc I saw this week -- guess it's the week for it, huh? -- told me he really isn't sure that I have recurrent depression at all.
He thinks it might be chronic depression, possibly chronic double depression. Talk about emulating a Hoover!
But you're right -- it's horrible to think in terms of having what is likely a lifelong disease, whether it's mental or only physical. (See? ;-) We can turn the tables on those who would dismiss our conditions.) What I found hardest with the arthritis was adjusting my self-image to someone whose joints were being destroyed. It's hard to incorporate these things into our self-concepts, even without the sort of stigma that can be attached to mental illnesses.
>
> I liked him. I felt heard and understood. I felt validated. He had suggestions for med changes, which is good, though I'm having all kinds of freak outs about it.Funny -- I had a panic attack, too, despite some positive things about the guy I saw. And it was over meds, too.
Here's a question for you to think about: you've had a whole lot of things coming at you for a while now: an invalidating pdoc, approaching termination, the lamictal stuff, all the things going on in the rest of your life. Do you think that you might have been stressed to the point that the meds suggestions acted as foci for those stresses? And that the freak out is partly that steam forcing its way out? Just a suggestion of something to think about...
> The other part is that he said that changing more than one variable at a time makes it difficult to figure out what's effecting what.
And that's GOOD. You know my bias, but that's a good thing, despite any possible delay with getting full relief. I won't say more.
>
And given how painful termination has been, ... you'd think that would feel like a big relief. That I'd feel happy about it, or at least good about. I feel sort of numb. In fact, I didn't even give him an answer about it, but instead said that we didn't have to make any decisions about it just then. I did say that I didn't know what else we'd talk about.Wow, almost seems as though you might be depressed...
Actually, what it sounds like to me is that you had already triggered all your emotional action potentials, and you were still in the refractory period. Does that feel right to you?
>
> God, I hate this. And I hate that I'll always have depression to some extent. It's always going to be lurking, and I could have another depressive episode even if I'm doing "everything right."Yep. It does feel kinda hopeless when you look at it that way, and it's easy to want to shake your fist and curse whatever brute and blackguard made the world.
So, do it! Even go outside and scream it if you have to. It really is OK -- you will not be struck down by the whirlwind on the spot. Get all that built up energy about it out -- and then see how you feel.
>
> This must be similar to what my husband faces each day in dealing with his Type I diabetes. Which sucks.
>
> Feeling very blue, very negative, and very pitiful right now....
>
> ggYou're feeling all those bad things -- do you also feel loved? Is a certain small female helping? A certain husband? A certain friend? A certain mailman? (Whoops! I hope not on the last one ;-P )
Posted by All Done on October 21, 2006, at 4:19:49
In reply to More. And more. Wound up long, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
(((((gg))))),
I'm glad you're going to continue therapy for a while. It sounds like it would be a very difficult place to stop.
I'm sorry you're feeling lousy. I wish I had more to offer, but at least know I understand and I'm here if you need me.
(((((gg)))))
Love,
Laurie
Posted by sunnydays on October 21, 2006, at 10:12:50
In reply to More. And more. Wound up long, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
Hi gg,
That sounds really hard. But thanks for posting that. It helped me, because I still struggle with the fact that feeling really numb can be part of depression, since the way it's always portrayed doesn't usually include that. Just when I'm so flat, I don't see even why I'm depressed, just that this is how the world must always look to me. And then I blame myself. And then my T suggests maybe my depression is getting worse, and it all sort of clicks. I have the same problem with meds -- the thought keeps popping into my head that really I'd like to stop taking them, not add more, and maybe they're causing the depression. Looking for something to blame, you know.
But anyway, sorry to make this all about me. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now. It's good you're not going to terminate when you're having such a hard time.
Hang in there. I hear it's supposed to get better.
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2006, at 11:37:17
In reply to More. And more. Wound up long, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
I know it doesn't sound great right now.
But I *feel* really good for you. You have a new pdoc who not only doesn't have irrational policies on changing meds, but appears to have thoughtful and innovative policies on meds.
And while it might have been a good idea to quit therapy in July, there's no reason to cling to a decision when the variables in your life have changed. It's good to reevaluate it, whichever way you decide.
Overall, it sounds like good news.
I'm sorry you're feeling rotten though.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 21, 2006, at 11:47:05
In reply to Oh yeah, Go Tigers! » annierose, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:22:47
> Hmmm, maybe time to invest in something new?
Yes, new attire is DEFINITELY indicated for acute blues!
> Looking forward to getting out my broom. ;)
Anticipation is WONDERFUL! cherish it!
> Now it's off to take a hot bath and go to bed. Marriage counseling tomorrow. After that, I expect to be toast. Too much therapy in two days.Definitely too much therapy in 2 days. Even if you WERE stable on meds and moods!
Does this mean that you're going to be challenging my Princess of Polypsychopharmacy title?Stigma- well I guess it's a tradeoff- but remember that voice belongs to the Big D. When Big D is talking, it makes it hard to do things you KNOW are good for you, or to do things that promote hope.
I take med-high dose antipsychotic 300mg seroquel, which has also been shown to be an effective mood stabilizer, sleeping med, and BEST OF ALL!!! effective on bipolar DEPRESSION, not just mania. And my AD, which is cymbalta. To keep me awake, and help me be a productive member of society, I take provigil in the am, and perhaps a klonopin, or a half. I was taking this twice a day when I had a lot of anxiety and when my T said that she was worried that my anxiety was causing dissociation and vice versa.
No acute dissociative crises in 3 weeks, which is pretty good for me.
Remember that making med changes is hard- but you only have to make a few decisions every day.
1) take morning pills. just swallow them!
2) take evening pills. just swallow them!
3) check to make sure it's not time to order more refills or ask pdoc for samples or a prescription.IMO, it's pretty easy to defy the voice of the BigD for a few moments every day to perform steps 1,2,3.
T changes- this is really tricky. I made a T change at the same time that I made a med change and was going through the aforementioned dissociative crises. I know that you've been preparing yourself for termination/switching. This could definitely be a factor in the current mood instability.
You are NOT weak for admitting to yourself that maybe there are some situations in your life that you are not strong enough to face head-on.
You are NOT sicker for having to take more than one or two pills every day.
You are NOT a bad person for having bad thoughts, or bad moods.
You're a wonderful gardenergirl, and I hope you can enjoy your sunday football and the little things everyday that you enjoy just to flaunt in front of Big D and defy it!
hugs,
HRH. PoPpp Li.
Posted by annierose on October 21, 2006, at 15:36:51
In reply to Re: Oh yeah, Go Tigers! » gardenergirl, posted by Lindenblüte on October 21, 2006, at 11:47:05
GG -
The games starts in only a few hours and the sun magically arrived in all its glory (been raining the entire morning/afternoon).
The energy in the city is tangible --- so good to feel our souls awaken despite the constant bad news of one plant closing after another, one downsizing corporation after another ...
I can understand why the conflict exists. This was a goal and you were ready to "advance" (so to speak) to the next step. But now you are in another place and it's a time to re-evaluate. I am glad your t opened the door so easily for you. You didn't have to ask, he offered. I like him. It's okay to continue. The support is cozy, like a warm blanket on a winter's evening. Wrap yourself up in it. It may provide some relief!!
Annie
Posted by Poet on October 21, 2006, at 16:44:57
In reply to More. And more. Wound up long, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 23:07:58
Hi GG,
Sorry that you are feeling depressed. Feeling numb goes with depression. Hard to have the energy to feel anything. I hope new pdoc can find a new med that has zero side effects and lets you drink all the red wine you want to.
The only thing I like about depression is that I don't eat. Last major depression I lost 10 pounds in two weeks. My T and expdoc had a field day with that. Constant how much do you weigh, blah, blah. Geez, I'm bulimic. Not eating is an improvement. Well, maybe not.
Take care of yourself. Air hugs (( GG ))
Poet
Posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2006, at 21:51:50
In reply to Re: More. And more. Wound up long » gardenergirl, posted by Poet on October 21, 2006, at 16:44:57
GG sorry you are feeling so bad. And glad you're sticking with the same therapist for a while. And one med change at a time is the only way to know what is working and what is not. And don' feel guilty for taking how ever number of meds it takes to make you well. Love Phillipa
Posted by rainbutterfly on October 28, 2006, at 3:51:15
In reply to God, I hate depression!, posted by gardenergirl on October 20, 2006, at 18:51:40
((((( gardenergirl )))))
:-( butterfly :-(
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 28, 2006, at 10:18:53
In reply to Re: God, I hate depression! » gardenergirl, posted by rainbutterfly on October 28, 2006, at 3:51:15
Yes, I second that. And third that. and fourth that.
I'm thinking about changing my AD. My depression is like this sewage that starts leaking through some invisible drain in my basement. Everytime there is heavy rain, I find myself standing ankle-deep in sh*t, and I would really like to find the drain and seal it off, block it off. Until then, I'm just going to have to keep on calling in plumbers, and bailing buckets of emotional waste.
Just when everything is sp*c and span and mopped and sanitized... more heavy rain predicted.
-Li
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2006, at 19:47:57
In reply to Re: God, I hate depression!, posted by Lindenblüte on October 28, 2006, at 10:18:53
Li no more rain. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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