![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 7:29:00
I've been avoidant...
Two weeks ago I got a message on my answer phone from my t's administrator saying that my appoitment was cancelled and I should call them so they knew I got the message.
I didn't call them.
The next day I got another message on my answer phone...
I didn't call them.
The next day...
I didn't...
The next day...
I didn't.
Then... I didn't charge my phone. Its been dead for over a week now.
There is probably a message...
I hope nothing bad happened to her.
I hope she doesn't feel bad about my not calling.
I just...I don't know.
I don't know.
Why am I saying this?
Why don't I care?
I don't understand :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 7:58:48
In reply to I've been bad, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 7:29:00
there isn't any connection.
nice lady trying to help
but there isn't any connection.i say hi and we manage to banter a little...
then we sit down...
then there is a bit of a silence.
she asks me how my week / month has gone.
i say 'fine' or 'fine thanks' or whatever.
then there is a bit more of a silence.i try and think about something to say...
something that will be meaningful to me
to help me feel connected.
so i start trying to set the scene for something that has happened during the week...
and she sort of follows along but asks strangish questions and tries to help by rephrasing etc but doesn't really get it...then i get to the kind of crucial part.
and i guess she tries to help me reframe it.
but...
she doesn't really get it.she doesn't.
i don't know what to say.
i'm sorry
i get this a lot
with lots of different t's.
i don't think she knows what to do with me.
sometimes she jumps up and starts drawing little models and stuff on the board.
but...
there is no connection really.i feel bad
bad about that
she is nice lady trying to help
so...
why isn't it helping?
why can't i talk to her?
i mean... connect with her?
she doesn't understand.
i mean she really really doesn't.i tried to talk to the uni councellors about how this situation wasn't really working for me therapy wise. they said i should contact her supervisor. her supervisor was the lady who did the intake interview. i remembered thinking... we might just be able to work together... we might just... but then she said she would hand me over to another therapist. apparantly... i need to talk to her. it is just... i don't want to offend my current t. i know it isn't supposed to be about that but in many respects i don't feel like she is my t anyway. it is hard to explain.
so...
i guess i need to get the courage to go see my t... and to say 'i'm not sure that things are working'. because i'm not sure that they are. it is hard because i really do think that she is trying really hard. maybe it is that... she did undergrad philosophy and sometimes she seems interested in my work and stuff and then i realise... its like i'm giving her a tutorial. i don't know. lots of my students were older than me. i don't know. my last t... was the same. i used to go chat with her but... i refused to think of her as my t. she wasn't a t. just someone i went and chatted to every now and then. i've got the same again.
what am i supposed to do with all the sh*t inside of me?
(i don't think they can handle it i don't think they can handle me if i get triggered... i'm scared of me and i'm scared of hurting them and i can't tell them this because... they wouldn't understand and they would probably feel bad):-(
Posted by happyflower on September 16, 2006, at 8:26:10
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 7:58:48
(((((alex))))))
How long have you seen this T? If you are feeling like it isn't working (if you feel it, she probably does too), maybe a new T could be the right one for you.
Most T's have had to refer clients because it wasn't clicking or had clients who were referred to them because it wasn't clicking . So really it is okay, if that is what you need to do.
And remember she might be nice and trying, but if it isn't working, it isn't. You are not going to hurt her feelings by telling her this, I am sure she has heard this before. Plus who knows maybe confiding in her about this, might change the relationship you have with her .
I don't really know, what to do, other than think of yourself first.
Posted by muffled on September 16, 2006, at 9:41:09
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 7:58:48
***Hey Alex,
Proly yout inside kid the one not phoning. I find whrn i have upset my inside people start comming around more.
Its ok.> there isn't any connection.
> nice lady trying to help
> but there isn't any connection.***Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
> i say hi and we manage to banter a little...
> then we sit down...
> then there is a bit of a silence.
> she asks me how my week / month has gone.
> i say 'fine' or 'fine thanks' or whatever.
> then there is a bit more of a silence.***Sounds like the beginning w/my T.
>
> i try and think about something to say...
> something that will be meaningful to me
> to help me feel connected.
> so i start trying to set the scene for something that has happened during the week...
> and she sort of follows along but asks strangish questions and tries to help by rephrasing etc but doesn't really get it...***I have found that I write my T a fax the day before and send it, and usu she has time to read it before I get there. We usu. do a devotional reading(she's a christian counsellor) after the inane-'how was your week' thing.
I find the devotional reading really helps cuz for one thing , sometimes they are good, but MAINLY , it gives me a chance to surreptitiously peek at my counsellor and remember what she looks like, and notice if she looks different, and what she's wearing etc. So I suppose I *sses her, just like she proly assesses me as I walk in the door! I feel that mt T OFTEN doesn't 'get it'. I guess its hard to try and understand anothers experience exactly...
>
> then i get to the kind of crucial part.
> and i guess she tries to help me reframe it.
> but...
> she doesn't really get it.
>
***My T talks LOTS and its GREAT. Cuz she'll talk, and do the writing thing on the board, and it helps to try and define stuff more, cuz she'll keep asking me 'does that make sense?'. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes I off in another land!> she doesn't.
>
> i don't know what to say.
>
> i'm sorry> i get this a lot
> with lots of different t's.
> i don't think she knows what to do with me.
> sometimes she jumps up and starts drawing little models and stuff on the board.
> but...
> there is no connection really.***Mebbe she never will....guess some don't.....sigh.
My T hasn't dealt with alot of what I present, so I kinda feel like I'm training HER, so she can understand and then help others like me more effectively. So I push on.
>>
> i feel bad
> bad about that
> she is nice lady trying to help
> so...
> why isn't it helping?
> why can't i talk to her?
> i mean... connect with her?
> she doesn't understand.
> i mean she really really doesn't.
>
> i tried to talk to the uni councellors about how this situation wasn't really working for me therapy wise. they said i should contact her supervisor. her supervisor was the lady who did the intake interview. i remembered thinking... we might just be able to work together... we might just... but then she said she would hand me over to another therapist. apparantly... i need to talk to her. it is just... i don't want to offend my current t. i know it isn't supposed to be about that but in many respects i don't feel like she is my t anyway. it is hard to explain.***now interestingly, at this point in reading your post, I had to go off to make breki for my kids. But I was kinda mulling this over in my mind.
***and I thot about this above
>
> so...
>
> i guess i need to get the courage to go see my t... and to say 'i'm not sure that things are working'. because i'm not sure that they are. it is hard because i really do think that she is trying really hard. maybe it is that... she did undergrad philosophy and sometimes she seems interested in my work and stuff and then i realise... its like i'm giving her a tutorial. i don't know. lots of my students were older than me. i don't know. my last t... was the same. i used to go chat with her but... i refused to think of her as my t. she wasn't a t. just someone i went and chatted to every now and then. i've got the same again.
>
> what am i supposed to do with all the sh*t inside of me?
> (i don't think they can handle it i don't think they can handle me if i get triggered... i'm scared of me and i'm scared of hurting them and i can't tell them this because... they wouldn't understand and they would probably feel bad)
>
***And, funnily enough, I thot to myself..'Alex is such a sweety. I wonder if she is trying to protect her T's, cuz she got alot of really intense stuff inside. I wonder if she is afraid to let it out???'
What a strange thing that I would think of just the same what you wrote.....
DON'T worry bout your T's, if they can't handle crazy sh*t chucked at them, then they in the wrong business!!!!
Iused to woory bout my T, cuz she SO nice and pleasant, and not very big and strong. I used to ask her regularly (and be on tenterhooks bout what she might say) whether she was scared of me. She would just say 'should I be', while showing absolutely no fear.
I even (in faxes) cussed her out good. She still didn't run away. In sessions I would get all tough sometimes, she still didn't run away. We (I) have this 'game', where I let her a little closer, then I get freaked and run like hell. STILL I play this stupid game..
But she's never quit on me, and while mebbe she don't really 'get' alot of my stuff totally,just the fact that she hasn't bailed on me, is HUGE to me, HUGE.
So I dunno Alex, is there any chance you could put some thots for an agenda for your session on paper? Keep it simple! And tell your T that she's not to be diverted from this sgenda. Stick to it?
I find the best sessions where I learn the most, are often cuz I have behaved badly, and then we try and figger why!!!!!
So good luck to you.
Don't worry bout your T's feelings(TRY not to anyways!). She is there to help you process stuff. And if she hasn't had sh*t chucked at her yet, then its time she did! Cuz she may as well learn now. It comes with the territory, thats why T often have their own T's or debrief with others in their practice. Your T has her own outlets, she is supposwed to be yours, LET IT RIP!
Luv ya Alex,
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Gee on September 16, 2006, at 12:40:01
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by muffled on September 16, 2006, at 9:41:09
Alex, you really haven't been that bad. You don't feel like going, you don't feel like going. I've ran away more than once. Maybe you should tell her the truth that you don't feel like you can work with her. That it's just not clicking. I really hope you figure out something because you are so nice, and you diserve only the best!!!
Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2006, at 10:19:17
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by happyflower on September 16, 2006, at 8:26:10
Hey. I guess I've been seeing her for about five months now. I think... It isn't working. I wonder sometimes if it is about running away... But I really don't think it is. I don't think it is. I think it is more that there isn't a connection. That we can't communicate very well.
I'm not sure how she will take it... I don't think she typically sees people for regular therapy. I think she is used to more once off stuff around birth control and womens health issues type stuff. Maybe some longer term stuff around abortion or rape crisis or something... But I don't think she is used to regular clients... I just don't know.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2006, at 10:29:17
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by muffled on September 16, 2006, at 9:41:09
> I feel that mt T OFTEN doesn't 'get it'. I guess its hard to try and understand anothers experience exactly...
Yeah. Sounds like you are figuring out how to communicate with your t though. My t doesn't seem to want to talk about feelings except insofar as trying to reframe them...
And she doesn't want to talk about the past either...
And she doesn't seem to understand about transference (I broached it in a fairly safe way talking about 'other peoples' behaviour).
She doesn't seem interested in process issues either...
I think maybe we are just mismatched.
> ***My T talks LOTS and its GREAT. Cuz she'll talk, and do the writing thing on the board, and it helps to try and define stuff more, cuz she'll keep asking me 'does that make sense?'. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes I off in another land!Thats good.
My t talks... And sometimes I feel like... She is digging herself into a bit of a hole. Maybe she is nervous. I try and help her out... But we just can't seem to connect.> ***And, funnily enough, I thot to myself..'Alex is such a sweety. I wonder if she is trying to protect her T's, cuz she got alot of really intense stuff inside. I wonder if she is afraid to let it out???'
I'm mostly afraid for me. That it will come up and won't be able to be put away again. For her too... But mostly... Selfish. Because of me. And some things... I can't communicate to her. I've taken risks. Really. Tried to tell her things that were really very important to me. And... She tries to reframe... She tries to interpret what is going on. I think she misses the mark mostly... But she is trying... And I try and help her... But... It just isn't going so well... When the risks don't pay off... I just leave feeling misunderstood and disconnected. But hardest is knowing that she really is trying...
She must sense this too?
Mustn't she?
Maybe she will be relieved if I mention about seeing someone else if that is possible...> So I dunno Alex, is there any chance you could put some thots for an agenda for your session on paper?
I think we need to have a chat about what we are doing and where we are going. Because she seems to think of it as brief supportive but you know... I can talk to friends for brief supportive. What I really need is a t.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2006, at 10:30:44
In reply to Re: I've been bad, posted by Gee on September 16, 2006, at 12:40:01
Thanks Gee.
I guess I'll have to figure out something.I worry...
Maybe...
Maybe...
I did reject my mother.
And maybe...
I reject some of my t's as well.
I think that is why I'm feeling so bad about this.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2006, at 14:01:24
In reply to Re: I've been bad » muffled, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2006, at 10:29:17
>
> I'm mostly afraid for me. That it will come up and won't be able to be put away again. For her too... But mostly... Selfish. Because of me. And some things... I can't communicate to her. I've taken risks. Really. Tried to tell her things that were really very important to me. And... She tries to reframe... She tries to interpret what is going on. I think she misses the mark mostly... But she is trying... And I try and help her... But... It just isn't going so well... When the risks don't pay off... I just leave feeling misunderstood and disconnected. But hardest is knowing that she really is trying...
>
> I think we need to have a chat about what we are doing and where we are going. Because she seems to think of it as brief supportive but you know... I can talk to friends for brief supportive. What I really need is a t.
>I had a t who had a completely different agenda from me, and we could never get to being on the same page. At first I thought I was too sick or too stupid to be able to communicate well with her; then I thought she was REALLY stupid for misreading/mishearing me so badly; then I thought that she was just a bad therapist. Then I discovered that her primary experience was in providing crisis support, and that long term therapy was really not her, uh, millieu.
I looked for another t while I was still seeing this one. When I found a t I wanted to switch to, I just stopped making appointments and she never called me to ask why. I'm glad I left (after about 4 months) when I realized that her interests were not the same as mine. I actually think that any failure was on her part, as she was the professionally trained expert, and should have been addressing my concerns instead of trampling over them with her own. Listening and hearing - some people just aren't skilled at those things, you know?
I think I've had more bad therapy experiences than good ones. I also think that if I'd stopped and talked about where we were in the therapy process, that most of those bad experiences could have been curtailed.
There's no shame in deciding that your therapist is not a good fit. Having a talk to find out if you are both working at cross purposes would probably lessen the frustration all around.
Posted by Jost on September 17, 2006, at 22:53:16
In reply to Re: I've been bad » Gee, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2006, at 10:30:44
> Thanks Gee.
> I guess I'll have to figure out something.
>
> I worry...
>
> Maybe...
>
> Maybe...
>
> I did reject my mother.
>
> And maybe...
>
> I reject some of my t's as well.
>
> I think that is why I'm feeling so bad about this.
Yeah, you never know-- maybe it's your past; maybe you're not ready; maybe there's someone else who would be better (most Ts want to talk about feelings? anyway? don't they?)--and, as Freud said, sometimes a T is just a T.
Sorry that doesn't help, but sometimes I wonder, does anything-- other than some drug they're going to find 100 year from now?
Jost
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2006, at 0:22:20
In reply to Re: I've been bad » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2006, at 14:01:24
Yeah. I think bad fit. I think that is it. But I'm not sure...
I fixed my phone. Which involved charging it and putting credit on it. She left a message. She was very apologetic. Said she would put me down for last Thursday at our regular(ish) time. But I only got the message over the weekend. I called her up today. She sounded a little bit peeved. Fair enough.
I'll try and talk to her this week.
About what we are doing and stuff. Suggest that... There might be someone else who I could work with?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2006, at 0:26:46
In reply to Re: I've been bad » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 17, 2006, at 22:53:16
> Yeah, you never know-- maybe it's your past;
Maybe. Because... This happens with me and t's quite a lot...
> maybe you're not ready;
Maybe. But I don't think that is it. Because I DO want to work I DO. And I remember going to t's and thinking I DO want to work I DO and then I talk to them... And when I leave I think I DON'T want to work I DON'T. But that means... They pushed me, you see. And I'd come right. And we would figure out a pace. But these people don't push me :-( And I try to get the ball rolling myself but they don't seem to be able to...
> maybe there's someone else who would be better (most Ts want to talk about feelings? anyway? don't they?)--
I'm sure. Just a matter of whether I can get to see one :-(
> and, as Freud said, sometimes a T is just a T.lol
> Sorry that doesn't help, but sometimes I wonder, does anything-- other than some drug they're going to find 100 year from now?Aw. They found the drug but unfortunately it is illegal, works a little too well, and is highly addictive ;-)
Seriously though...
I don't know either...
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 18, 2006, at 1:18:18
In reply to Re: I've been bad » Jost, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2006, at 0:26:46
Even if it's true that you wanted (for good reason) to push your mother away, and that the same reaction comes up in your therapy sessions, it's only a part of you. There is another part which clearly wants to be engaged and do the work.
I guess nobody but you can decide whether you have a good enough fit with your present T. I'm just wondering- do you work better with men? I do.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2006, at 1:41:15
In reply to a good match..., posted by Pfinstegg on September 18, 2006, at 1:18:18
> Even if it's true that you wanted (for good reason) to push your mother away, and that the same reaction comes up in your therapy sessions, it's only a part of you.
Yeah. I just got to thinking a month or so ago that I probably did push my mother away. I felt that she was invasive at times. Was she? Objectively? Perhaps... I think the real trouble came of poor fit though. Intense emotions from both sides and if she needed comfort and I needed independence and vice versa... Maybe... We both felt rejected by each other.
(Talking very early interactions there. I guess boundary violations came later with hitting and stuff)
(See I'm trying to transcend the Mother bad Father good thing. I got into the spirit of Father not so good after all :-( But sympathy for my Mother is hardest of all...)
> There is another part which clearly wants to be engaged and do the work.
Yes.
> I guess nobody but you can decide whether you have a good enough fit with your present T.Yeah. I'm trying to figure whether it is a bad fit or whether it is a transference response that isn't letting me feel connected and attached to her.
> I'm just wondering- do you work better with men? I do.
Well... I attach a whole heap easier thats for sure. But that being said... Trust is still a hard one. The attachment doesn't come that easy... But it comes, yeah.
I got to thinking that maybe it is better for me not to work with a guy. Because the transference stuff can get really very intense. I thought it might be better for me to work with a female so the transference wouldn't be as intense. But I don't seem to be able to attach to her. Then I got to thinking that might be a transference response that was preventing my attachment...
So confusing...
But then I have had two female t's who I felt attached to. The first I really liked. I couldn't connect with her. Miscommunications all over the place. But I really cared about her and really very majorly cared what she thought of me. So I was attached to her, yeah. Was devistated when she terminated me. And the second one... We figured out how to communicate (mostly). Mostly... They were both like... Big sisters. They weren't all that much older than me. But I was attached yeah.
So...
Maybe... It is just bad fit. Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2006, at 7:51:18
In reply to Re: a good match... » Pfinstegg, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2006, at 1:41:15
I don't think that you should blame yourself that so many therapists have worked out so far. Because of the heavy theoretical bent where you are, your therapists have usually been either willing but untrained, or trained in CBT/DBT which you've already done and squeezed all the helpfulness you can get from that approach.
I wish you had the freedom of choice to try something different.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 1:38:14
In reply to Re: a good match... » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2006, at 7:51:18
> I don't think that you should blame yourself that so many therapists have worked out so far.
Thanks. It is just hard because... I want to know why. It must be something about me. Something about me that makes it hard to find a good fit. But what? What is it? I don't understand...
> Because of the heavy theoretical bent where you are, your therapists have usually been either willing but untrained, or trained in CBT/DBT which you've already done and squeezed all the helpfulness you can get from that approach.
Yeah. Though that being said I had one therapist who was terrific. Really amazingly terrific. Maybe it was the novelty of the DBT approach... I think it was more than that, though. We were just a really terrific fit. Maybe it is that... I've experienced that, and that is what I want. A really good fit. So I can start to do some work.
> I wish you had the freedom of choice to try something different.
Thank you. There are therapists of other orientations. It is just that I'm dealing with publicly funded systems. I had a look to try and find someone with experience treating DID and cost prohibits. I mean it really does prohibit. Their student rates... Were still cost prohibitive. And they said that was the best they could do. So back to the public health system and short term therapy with councellors or... Now there should be some CBT therapists somewhere... I don't know that I have the strength. I should write something for my t though. I will ask her for her email address. That is my mission for next week. To ask her for her email address. I can get my concerns out that way...
Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 1:51:53
In reply to Re: a good match... » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 1:38:14
I found the courage to say:
'What are we doing in therapy
I mean... What is the point?''That is a really good question
What do you think we are doing?'<cringe. how to be diplomatic>
Patterns... There are patterns
And I keep playing them out
over and over and over and over<cringe. how can she be diplomatic?>
Refocus on how the problem manifests in the present
Throw in the word 'projection'
I'm afraid to go out because I don't have a secure baseOkay.
Then a half hour lecture to fill in the rest of the time
<cringe. this isn't working. how to be diplomatic?>
I can't say what I need to say because I don't trust that she can contain it. I can't say what I need to say because I don't trust that she can see her way through and over it.
I can't say what I need to say because I don't trust that she can distinguish my sensitivities from my sh*t.
I can't say what I need to say because... She doesn't understand.
I don't mean that she doesn't understand because she hasn't been there.
I mean that she doesn't understand because... Because she needs to talk and she needs me to listen. And I don't need a lecture on the way things are. I don't need her to teach me anything. I just need her to shut the hell up. I just need her to go away. She isn't helping. She isn't helping.I can't attach to her and she isn't helping. And there it is.
And she is oblivious because she doesn't understand about attachment.
About how my heart is cold.
I need to tell her next week that I don't think things are working out.
How to tell her diplomatically in a way she will understand?
I don't think things are working because...
I don't feel attached to you?
I don't trust you can hold my feelings?
I don't trust you can be solid?
I don't trust that you can distinguish sh*t from sensitivities?I can't say any of this... She won't understand. She won't understand. That is the problem.
What can I say?
I would like to work with someone else.
Why?
What can I say?
I need to be diplomatic because... It will largely be up to her reccomendation and whether anyone takes me will largely be up to her reccomendation.
I could ring and ask to talk to the lady in charge. I've met her. She is nice. No sh*t. She is okay. I think I could work with her. Once we have worked through the typical 'I don't do that' nonsense. But if I'm seen to have gone over her head then I could be labelled a 'troublemaker'. You know... Getting staff to split and stuff.
Sh*t.
What am I going to do?
Make an appoitment to see her and try and explain...
What?
Any ideas?
Posted by Dinah on September 24, 2006, at 10:24:16
In reply to A really very bad match..., posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 1:51:53
Hasn't she said that the service she works for isn't really set up for long term therapy? If so, she will be aware she doesn't have the training for it.
Can't you just say that this doesn't seem to be the type of therapy you need at this point? That she seems to be an excellent counselor, but that you really need a psychotherapist? That you appreciate how hard she's been trying and you like her very much, but that it isn't serving the purpose for you?
I don't know. I guess that in a pinch, I always figure the truth works best, but then I haven't left my mental health professionals on the best of terms usually. :)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 11:35:41
In reply to Re: A really very bad match..., posted by Dinah on September 24, 2006, at 10:24:16
> Hasn't she said that the service she works for isn't really set up for long term therapy?
No she never said that. I guess I kinda figured it after establishing that they weren't part of community mental health and figuring their likely clientele. I actually think... They have been fairly misleading of their job description / qualifications.
> That she seems to be an excellent counselor, but that you really need a psychotherapist?
That is good... I could try that one.
> That you appreciate how hard she's been trying and you like her very much, but that it isn't serving the purpose for you?
Can but try....
> I don't know. I guess that in a pinch, I always figure the truth works best, but then I haven't left my mental health professionals on the best of terms usually. :)Yeah. I can't afford to do that. Will be up to her whether she refers me on or not...
Thanks for the suggestions. I figure the best way to go is to get her email and email her my concerns. That way (hopefully) she will forward them on...
Posted by Jost on September 24, 2006, at 14:33:57
In reply to Re: A really very bad match..., posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2006, at 11:35:41
If you can be diplomatic, but unswerving, that would work.
Most importantly, don't get into debate, try not to start enumerating reasons, qualities that you need/don't find helpful, etc That way could lie-- a bad session.
It's not a debate-- you just need to do it.
Why? --- Because.
Why? --- You just do.
Why? --- Because you do. You've thought it through a lot, and you feel that it's not working.
Why? --- Because it's not.
And--thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.
(By the way, there is no way that I could do that-- but the more you can, the better I think. There's a potential morass in these situations, esp. with health service, reduced fees, referrals etc. If you can do it, I highly recommend it.)
Jost
This is the end of the thread.
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