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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:06:57
Ok. here is some thing. I have rheumatoid arthritis for the past 11 years, and have had quite a bit of joint pain and suffered a lot because of it.
However, even though I felt down most of the time due to it, I never let that get its way with me, and really somehow managed to block all that pain from upsetting me too much (except when it became totally unbearable, I would cry or ask for help from my husband).
But now, my mother has got it too (yeah, it is kind of genetic in my family). And she is finding it painful. And she tries to explain it to me, and being emotionally weaker than I am, she finds it harder to cope up with her pain, even though, statistically, hers have been a much milder form than mine was (not much swelling, redness etc). And she tries to discuss her medications and how she feels about it with me.
And I just don't want to hear about it. I just totally switch myself off, whenever she tries to talk about anything to do with RA. I know she needs some wise words or perhaps understanding from me, but for some reason, it triggers me too much. And I can't just bear to hear from her about this issue. (She has diabetes too, and I dont' find myself triggered when she talks aobut it).
But I feel I should be able to console her the most, since I have gone through RA, but I just can't bear to even hear her.
Am I being really too selfish? I have to say, that she has offered me lots of comfort before when I used to feel pain.
Posted by curtm on June 22, 2006, at 13:18:47
In reply to Am I being too selfish, posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:06:57
I don't think you are being selfish. I think hearing her is making you relive a lot of pain that you don't want to. You will have to find a way to cope with that and support her. Hope that helps.
Curt
Posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:23:53
In reply to Re: Am I being too selfish » orchid, posted by curtm on June 22, 2006, at 13:18:47
> I don't think you are being selfish. I think hearing her is making you relive a lot of pain that you don't want to. You will have to find a way to cope with that and support her. Hope that helps.
>
> CurtThank.. I don't think I can though. I am almost terrified, that *it will get me* if I try to listen to her - almost as if I am afraid of even acknowledging the pain - and if I acknowledge it, I will feel depressed.
Posted by B2chica on June 22, 2006, at 13:54:11
In reply to Re: Am I being too selfish » curtm, posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:23:53
dear, can you tell her that?
can you just say, i understand what you are going through but i'm afraid i just can't be of much comfort to you right now, as it *effects my health, triggers me, upsets me-(whatever phrase may fit best for you).is there anything about her in particular that makes this worse...ex. if it were someone you worked with coming to you about this would it make it any easier?
i guess i was just wondering if its the illness that triggers you or your mother coming to you that's doing more harm...
either way you've come so far. you need to do what keeps you healthy.
-cares
b2c.
Posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 16:13:53
In reply to Re: Am I being too selfish » orchid, posted by B2chica on June 22, 2006, at 13:54:11
Thanks B2C. I don't know if I ever can tell her that. And I think she is too submissive all the time and too meak anyway, and if I say so, she will just say that is allright and will continue to suffer in silence. I can't do it to her. I have to atleast give her the hearing ear and say whatever words of comfort comes to me, no matter what is costs me. But boy, it is costing me too much, and I don't know how I can cope up with it.
And I am not sure if it is because she is my mom, but her being my mom makes it even worse, because I know when I used to hurt, she used to pray to God everyday to take the pain away from me and give it to her. And now my pain has lesseed and she has got her RA and it feels so very guilty, that somehow God granted her wish.
It just makes me feel even more guilty, as if I gave it to her. And it is extremely guilt provoking.
And I am so worried about passing it on to my child too. In fact, my mother in law also has it, from what I suspect, even though she says it is osteo arthritis, and I am so worried of the child inherting it from both side of the family.
Posted by Tamar on June 22, 2006, at 18:59:47
In reply to Am I being too selfish, posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:06:57
Hi Orchid,
I don’t think you’re being selfish at all. It is very difficult to be like a parent to your parents. And this is clearly distressing to you. If you didn’t want to hear about it because you thought it was boring, that might be selfish. But that isn’t the case. You are experiencing real anguish when your mother talks about her pain.
I’m not sure why you feel that way. Maybe you’re right about the sense of guilt, although I don’t think God gave your pain to our mother. But I can imagine that you might feel guilty even though you’re not guilty. Guilt is a strange thing.
I suppose the biggest question is how to deal with it. I imagine she will be hurt if you simply ignore her. So I guess it’s a matter or trying to find a way to listen to her, or trying to find a way of telling her gently that you don’t have the emotional resources to listen when she talks about her RA pain.
In order to listen to her, you may have to desensitize yourself a bit. You might find it helpful to do some reading about RA pain, or to talk about RA with someone else (someone you feel comfortable with). Sometimes just getting used to seeing and hearing the words can help a bit. I know you know all about the pain, but that’s not quite the same thing as being able to listen to someone else’s account of it.
If you think you can tell her gently that it’s a difficult subject for you, I think it will probably be quite hard. I don’t know how close you are to your mother; I suspect not as close as she would like. And maybe her RA pain seems intrusive to you; maybe you feel she’s using it (however unconsciously) as a means of getting closer to you. I don’t mean this in a bad way, of course, and indeed I may be completely wrong. I’m just extrapolating from stuff you’ve said before about your family dynamics when you were growing up. But if there’s anything in this possibility, it might require quite a lot of hard work from you to try to renegotiate your relationship with your mother.
Sorry that I don’t have any good answers. I hope you manage to work things out with her.
Tamar
Posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 19:42:41
In reply to Re: Am I being too selfish » orchid, posted by Tamar on June 22, 2006, at 18:59:47
> Hi Orchid,
>
> I don’t think you’re being selfish at all. It is very difficult to be like a parent to your parents. And this is clearly distressing to you. If you didn’t want to hear about it because you thought it was boring, that might be selfish. But that isn’t the case. You are experiencing real anguish when your mother talks about her pain.---Orchid
Thanks. That makes sense.
>
> I’m not sure why you feel that way. Maybe you’re right about the sense of guilt, although I don’t think God gave your pain to our mother. But I can imagine that you might feel guilty even though you’re not guilty. Guilt is a strange thing.----Orchid.
Yes, logically I know I don't have to feel guilty. There is no way I could have given it to her - it would be reverse inheritance :-) And I know it doesn't work that way. But sometimes she uses this guilt trap to me, and I fall for it too. She says it is because of all the worrying about me that she got her diabetes, and it makes me really mad. I know if I didn't cause her to worry, she will simply find something else to worry about. But anyway, she is a nice person, so I don't really hold it against her.>
> I suppose the biggest question is how to deal with it. I imagine she will be hurt if you simply ignore her. So I guess it’s a matter or trying to find a way to listen to her, or trying to find a way of telling her gently that you don’t have the emotional resources to listen when she talks about her RA pain.---Orchid
Yeah, but the poor thing doesn't really means any harm. She is just very helpless and sad most of the time, and it just breaks my heart to see her in some form of pain or the other all the time.
>
> In order to listen to her, you may have to desensitize yourself a bit. You might find it helpful to do some reading about RA pain, or to talk about RA with someone else (someone you feel comfortable with). Sometimes just getting used to seeing and hearing the words can help a bit. I know you know all about the pain, but that’s not quite the same thing as being able to listen to someone else’s account of it.
>---Orchid
True - one thing I have found out for myself is, as a way of coping with the pain, I avoid it. I don't remember my pain - not even a little bit. If you ask me how much I suffered all these past 11 years, I would be perhaps able to recount it logically, but never emotionally. I just don't feel it, and I don't have any emotional scars left from all that intense pain. I guess when someone tries to bring it out, it kind of makes me very afraid if I will succumb to it.
> If you think you can tell her gently that it’s a difficult subject for you, I think it will probably be quite hard. I don’t know how close you are to your mother; I suspect not as close as she would like. And maybe her RA pain seems intrusive to you; maybe you feel she’s using it (however unconsciously) as a means of getting closer to you. I don’t mean this in a bad way, of course, and indeed I may be completely wrong. I’m just extrapolating from stuff you’ve said before about your family dynamics when you were growing up. But if there’s anything in this possibility, it might require quite a lot of hard work from you to try to renegotiate your relationship with your mother.
---Orchid
I have that feeling too. She tries to gain love through pain and sympathy. I don't blame her for it - that was the way she used to get atleast a little bit of caring from my dad. And maybe if I just give her unconditional love and caring she might not feel the need to use the pain as a way to get close. But my emotional resources are also quite limited, and it is hard to do it.
>
> Sorry that I don’t have any good answers. I hope you manage to work things out with her.
>
> Tamar
>
Orchid
Thanks a lot Tamar. That was quite so very helpful, and I think you are right on about the things. Thanks again.
Posted by ElaineM on June 23, 2006, at 19:25:56
In reply to Am I being too selfish, posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:06:57
Orchid, I don't think you are selfish at all. I can really indentify with how torn you could be with being asked to comfort someone else - even a family member. I don't talk about it much myself (I don't have the exact same thing though) cause it is too difficult. No one can understand what the pain feels/felt like for you. And I've found it really hard when others try to place my experience in relation to some other pain they went through. Even when I know they are trying to relate, or share, or something.
It's gotta be hard cause I bet you'd like to console her. But on the days that I can push the pain from my mind for a moment, I know my own brain instinctively fights to shut-out ANYTHING that would remind me of it. Anything. (That's why I very rarely even talk about it)
But I do think that it would help letting your mom know that you know how consuming it can be, especially with a new diagnosis, and how it makes you grasp for help in all directions. And then tell her how triggering it is for you to talk about it, though you'll always offer as much comfort as you can.
This issue is an emotional one for me too. So much so that I sometimes forget that it is only natural for others to feel that their own pain is the greatest. But it is hard to rationalize with memories of flare-ups and pain in your head. (When the pain is worst I can hardly tell the difference between up and down.)
Please don't be too hard on yourself.
Elaine
Posted by Racer on June 24, 2006, at 18:24:40
In reply to Am I being too selfish, posted by orchid on June 22, 2006, at 13:06:57
Seriously -- if you're being "too" selfish, there's got to be a line dividing "too" selfish from optimally selfish, right? So, where is that line?
Here's a hint: there isn't one.
What you're doing is what you need to do for you. That isn't being selfish, it's something called "self-care," which is something most of us here aren't very good at. So, be proud of yourself for finding good self-care in your life.
As for your mother, yes, she needs someone to turn to for her adjustment, for her pain, for her concerns. Guess what? That doesn't mean it has to be you. In fact, you can tell her that it can't be you. That's called "setting a boundary in your relationship." It's also a good thing.
What's that? You'd feel guilty doing that? OK, so when you tell her you can't be her sounding board about RA, offer her some suggestions about where she can turn: a nurse practitioner, a member of the clergy, a counselor, a taxi driver if that's all you've got to offer. And she's responsible for her own feelings, whatever they are. You're responsible for yours, and yours require that you don't let her lean on your about this one issue.
Good luck.
Posted by orchid on June 25, 2006, at 15:00:29
In reply to Define the optimal level of selfishness » orchid, posted by Racer on June 24, 2006, at 18:24:40
Thanks for your thoughts. But right now, I jsut feel I have to support her no matter what. And I know perhaps I can put some boundaries, but I just don't feel like it. I never have.
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