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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by andromeda on January 15, 2006, at 20:03:00
Hi,
I have been doing this med chase and therapy talk for 14 years now. Lets see I have been told I have bipolar II, social anxiety, dissociative disorder, and you know a little of everything. I am the DSM. Have done all kinds of therapy, have tried over 50 medications, worked on spirituality, tried alternatives etc. Been through numerous psychiatrists, therapists and spiritual experiences. Guess what? I am still screwed up. I have been hospitalized once and that was 14 years ago when this all started. Was a med induced mania, some post partum and memories surfacing. When I do try to go off meds it has gotten harder and harder over the years to do so. The reason I go off meds(which isn't often) is because they really don't work that well and I am depressed most of my waking life on them. I wasn't on any med for 35 years. Got by without them all of that time.
So here's my plan. I am only on 150 mg of Lamictal at the moment. I have been on plenty combos too so I don't want to try something else. I am sick of meds. I want to slowly go off Lamictal, at 25 mg per week.
See what happens. If I can't take it I will go in the hospital. I will be able to recognize it and will also tell my support people to also watch out for me.
I know I will probably go into this crying mode which 14 years ago there was no way you could even get me to cry. If hospital tries to make me take meds I will fake like I am and won't take them.
Reason why I am doing this is because I want to go through feelings/memories that have been buried from my abusive childhood. Seems like the drugs just mask my feelings and memories. I have heard that your memories will surface when your ready to deal with them. I think the drugs keep me from remembering. If I am in the hospital I would feel safe to remember/feel. I would not feel safe to do that at home. I just want to go through it instead of around it. If I still need meds afterwards well then I would know I needed them. The way it is now I just think a lot of it is repressed crap and I am just drugged to survive. Has anyone here tried this? I am seriously considering it.
Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2006, at 20:18:38
In reply to How's this for a plan?, posted by andromeda on January 15, 2006, at 20:03:00
Is Lamictal really enough to numb you? I'm not on all that much, but I haven't noticed that it does that.
If the memories didn't come in the thirtyfive years you weren't on medications, are you sure they will now?
I think we all want to go off medications now and again, and if you're careful and under medical supervision, and with medical approval, it shouldn't be all that dangerous. But I wouldn't try to pretend to take medications that your hospital tries to give you. I imagine there are medical repercussions to having them think you're doing one thing when you're really doing another.
Posted by Phillipa on January 15, 2006, at 20:37:50
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? » andromeda, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2006, at 20:18:38
They usually watch you swallow your meds. Nurses are very careful of this. And unless you are suicidal, homicidal, manic, I really don't think they will admit you. As insurance won't pay for it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by James K on January 16, 2006, at 0:13:37
In reply to How's this for a plan?, posted by andromeda on January 15, 2006, at 20:03:00
Hi, I don't know you yet, but since you asked I'm going to go ahead and discuss this.
I agree with above that 150 lamictal isn't really that strong.
I really sympathize with the lack of "sucess" over the years. I'm just now beginning to deal with my stuff. I've used to fuel my anger, but I've never done whatever it is we're supposed to do about it.
I don't know what country you are in, or what part of the country, but before you have going into the hospital as part of a plan, or contigency, You need to make sure there are still some therapeutic hospitals in your area. The sad fact is I've had to go in too many times, and you don't really know what you're in for until it is too late. It just isn't like it used to be. There is often much less seperation between street people, drug addicts, men, women, neurotic, psychotic, violent,catatonic etc....
I just get scared of the idea of people who don't know what they're in for getting near some of the hospitals I have ended up in. I personally after last year don't consider it an option anymore. Meaning I will never go in voluntarily again. It is that bad. I'm in a major USA city.
Take this for what it's worth. If it doesn't apply to you, or you already know about it, thats cool, I just want the warning out here for you.
I've gone of meds. so many times. Meds suck, but unless you have access to a world class hospital, the current state of mental care sucks worse.
Ending up in an abusive situation won't help you deal with abuse. But I know some of your pain, and I hope you can find your way. I'm trying to find mine.
James K
Posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 0:51:22
In reply to How's this for a plan?, posted by andromeda on January 15, 2006, at 20:03:00
For some people it takes longer than others to get to the real issues, and learn to deal effectively, but I don't think healing will come until you're ready for it, whether you want it or not. It seems that daisy has said many times something about it having it's own timeline.
Why can't you go off the medication under the supervision of your pdoc? I'm sure (s)he'd understand, and would be there to back you up if things didn't go well.
Do you have a therapist that you really like and trust? Maybe once you're off the meds you could do some intensive depth therapy instead of the weekly appts., and then transition into weekly appts. Some therapies have intensives where you get therapy many hours a day, to round the clock in primal. Seems like that would be a bit more therapeutic than falling back on going into the hosp. if things didn't go well, and from what I've read on the boards, the hospitals are not a good place to be.
fw
Posted by andromeda on January 16, 2006, at 10:37:57
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? » andromeda, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2006, at 20:18:38
> Is Lamictal really enough to numb you? I'm not on all that much, but I haven't noticed that it does that.
Depression numbs me. When am on Lamictal I do nothing and care about nothing. When I try to go off I begin to cry all the time and have suicidal thoughts, which ususally scares me and I go back on meds because I don't feel safe to go through memories/feelings. Have two kids at home and they don't need to see that either.
>
> If the memories didn't come in the thirtyfive years you weren't on medications, are you sure they will now?Memory's did start to come after 35 years and then I was put on meds. Memory's have leaked through in last 14 years but without feelings. So it doesn't even feel real to me. I am not sure of anything. I know the feelings will come.
>
> I think we all want to go off medications now and again, and if you're careful and under medical supervision, and with medical approval, it shouldn't be all that dangerous. But I wouldn't try to pretend to take medications that your hospital tries to give you. I imagine there are medical repercussions to having them think you're doing one thing when you're really doing another.I would do this because as soon as your stablized your out. When I was hospitalized before I was a walking zombie and they got me out the same day my insurance ran out. If I refuse the meds outright I will probably be kicked out. Now my insurance will pay for first 5 days and than insurance pays for unlimited days. Its an HMO so they are going to get me out as soon as possible.
Thank you for feedback it helps me work it out.
Posted by andromeda on January 16, 2006, at 10:48:07
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan?, posted by Phillipa on January 15, 2006, at 20:37:50
> They usually watch you swallow your meds. Nurses are very careful of this.
If they do I will change my plan and figure something out. They are also very busy. They didn't watch me before.
And unless you are suicidal, homicidal, manic, I really don't think they will admit you. As insurance won't pay for it.
My doctor asks me on a regular basis if I need to go to the hospital. So I don't think I would have a problem getting in. All I need is a OK from doc.
Thank you for feedback and heads up.
Posted by andromeda on January 16, 2006, at 11:17:28
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? » andromeda, posted by James K on January 16, 2006, at 0:13:37
> Hi, I don't know you yet, but since you asked I'm going to go ahead and discuss this.
>
> I agree with above that 150 lamictal isn't really that strong.Anything above 150 just makes the depression worse and have tried to go up higher several times. I become hypomanic on antidepressants so maybe that is reason.
>
> I really sympathize with the lack of "sucess" over the years. I'm just now beginning to deal with my stuff. I've used to fuel my anger, but I've never done whatever it is we're supposed tdo about it.Thank you. I am sorry you have to deal with it too.
>
> I don't know what country you are in, or what part of the country, but before you have going into the hospital as part of a plan, or contigency, You need to make sure there are still some therapeutic hospitals in your area. The sad fact is I've had to go in too many times, and you don't really know what you're in for until it is too late. It just isn't like it used to be. There is often much less seperation between street people, drug addicts, men, women, neurotic, psychotic, violent,catatonic etc....I will ask my pdoc how it is set up and how it is now because 14 years is a long time ago. I will ask who I will be exposed to. I was exposed to all of the above my first hospital stay. I didn't feel unsafe and it was not extreme. I found it kind of interesting at some point. Maybe I was so messed up it didn't matter to me. I was never hurt.
> I just get scared of the idea of people who don't know what they're in for getting near some of the hospitals I have ended up in. I personally after last year don't consider it an option anymore. Meaning I will never go in voluntarily again. It is that bad. I'm in a major USA city.
Was your stay in a private hospital or was it a state run program? I definately would not go in the hospital ran by the state.
>
> Take this for what it's worth. If it doesn't apply to you, or you already know about it, thats cool, I just want the warning out here for you.Thank you.
>
> I've gone of meds. so many times. Meds suck, but unless you have access to a world class hospital, the current state of mental care sucks worse.Your right it all sucks but so does what I am doing now and I am one that keeps trying.
>
> Ending up in an abusive situation won't help you deal with abuse. But I know some of your pain, and I hope you can find your way. I'm trying to find mine.I am assuming since I will go in voluntary I will be able to leave anytime I want. I don't know, will ask my pdoc. I can become just as mean as someone else if I am threatened. I don't know what to do now but I will ask around. I know other people who have been hospitalized and will talk to them too. I hope your journey does not last long. Thank you
Posted by andromeda on January 16, 2006, at 11:34:11
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? » andromeda, posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 0:51:22
> For some people it takes longer than others to get to the real issues, and learn to deal effectively, but I don't think healing will come until you're ready for it, whether you want it or not. It seems that daisy has said many times something about it having it's own timeline.
I don't understand, how do you know the meds aren't affecting your healing?
>
> Why can't you go off the medication under the supervision of your pdoc? I'm sure (s)he'd understand, and would be there to back you up if things didn't go well.I will run it by her but I am pretty sure she will want me to stay on meds. That is what they do.
>
> Do you have a therapist that you really like and trust? Maybe once you're off the meds you could do some intensive depth therapy instead of the weekly appts., and then transition into weekly appts. Some therapies have intensives where you get therapy many hours a day, to round the clock in primal. Seems like that would be a bit more therapeutic than falling back on going into the hosp. if things didn't go well, and from what I've read on the boards, the hospitals are not a good place to be.I don't know what you mean by primal. I have been in a 5 day outpatient group program. It was a small group. Sometimes there would only be two people and other times at the most 4 people. Went from 9am to 3 pm. It mainly consisted of cognitive therapy. I was put back on meds. If I brought up memories it just kind of was pushed down by therapists and back to cognitive. Memories were coming up till they put me back on meds. Since I am on a HMO I have to go to their therapists and they use cognitive therapy only.
I will check with my pdoc and see if she kind find me a therapist that will break the rules. Cognitive goes nowhere and I end up feeling like a failure.
Thank you for info. I will check into other options.
Posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 14:16:49
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? fw, posted by andromeda on January 16, 2006, at 11:34:11
>
> I don't understand, how do you know the meds aren't affecting your healing?For me, I'd say, whether I'm on meds or not, I'd judge my healing by my ability to function, to feel genuinely good about myself and my life, and to be able to deal with my past - knowing I can't change it - knowing it's part of my history. It won't ever go away no matter how well I become or how good I feel.
I'd guess some people will always need meds, like some people will always be on meds for high blood pressure, diabetes, or MS. Sometimes our chemistry is just off. I don't necessarily think that being on meds means you can't heal or learn to deal with the past. I think I will always be on meds, I just pray I always have insurance to help cover them. I feel like I'm able to work in therapy, sometimes better than others. And I'm working on my own, in between appts. to try to heal. For me, the meds don't affect that unless they're messed up, or I'm hormonal, or something. Maybe there's something else that will help you feel better, but not leave you flat or numb.
I have a great deal of troubling with "feeling" things. I didn't cry for years, I didn't feel much of anything positive, and I got to the point where I didn't find happiness or joy in anything, other than maybe my children and my husband. It is just now beginning to turn around a bit. Although, I have to say I think I have to go off my one med., so I don't know what kind of a crimp that will throw into the equation. It was making me feel better, but I'm having side effects.
>> I will run it by her but I am pretty sure she will want me to stay on meds. That is what they do.
> >I hope she's supportive of you. Mine is very supportive when something's not working, I need a change, or I want to stop taking something. He wants to do what's going to make me feel best because even if his job is to prescribe meds, I know it's more important to him that I feel good. That said, I don't think he'd encourage me to go off of a med. if he felt it was going to be deleterious. But I'm sure he'd be there to back me up if I insisted.
>
> I don't know what you mean by primal.It mainly consisted of cognitive therapy.***Depth therapy wouldn't be cognitive because I think generally cognitive therapists deal with the here and now, and with faulty thought patterns. Depth therapy would be intensively working on things that have impacted you in a negative way. I'm sure an HMO wouldn't cover depth therapy, and I don't think it's done too much anyway. I think most therapies try to help you with the past, other than cognitive. I don't know, my knowledge isn't very extensive. I guess DBT doesn't either.
Seems that psychodynamic, experiential, and things like that tend to do more insight work. Or am I mistaken on that? I don't know. I'd guess every therapist is different too. I think finding one you like and can work with is the key.
>>I was put back on meds. If I brought up memories it just kind of was pushed down by therapists and back to cognitive.*** I went to a cognitive therapist not too long ago. I asked him at one of the first appts. what kind of therapy he did, and he said Cognitive. I told him I didn't want to do cognitive, I wanted to have insight into my problems, and he was fine with that, and awesome at combining the two. He helped me with the past in bits and pieces, but he also very much challenged my thought patterns. He was an incredibly intelligent and gifted therapist, but we had conflicts that didn't have anything to do with therapy, so I had to switch.
>>Memories were coming up till they put me back on meds. Since I am on a HMO I have to go to their therapists and they use cognitive therapy only.**Have you found a T you like and trust? Have you told them you'd like to have more insight and not just deal with faulty thought patterns? I know my daughter's first T wouldn't stray an inch, but the next T was willing to do whatever worked best for her, and let her take the lead.
>> I will check with my pdoc and see if she kind find me a therapist that will break the rules.
** Maybe if you find a T who's more concerned with your healing than their technique or method, you can get the best of both worlds. I'm glad you have a good repoire with your pdoc; I would guess she'd lead you in the right direction. Mine suggested my current T and I'm very happy with him.
>>Cognitive goes nowhere and I end up feeling like a failure.*** I didn't like it either. Purely CBT didn't last for me when I did it years ago It didn't get to what was really eating away at me, and I think it didn't really deal with the anxiety issues that started then and surfaced later.
> Thank you for info. I will check into other options.
>**Good luck, I hope your pdoc is helpful and will steer you in the right direction in finding a good T. And if you trust your pdoc and tell her how you feel about the meds, maybe talking to her and letting her direct you would be good. She might surprize you.
fw
Posted by andromeda on January 19, 2006, at 9:30:49
In reply to Re: How's this for a plan? fw » andromeda, posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 14:16:49
Thanks fw for the information, validation and support. I am going to do some volunteer work and see if that helps. Haven't really tried volunteering on a regular basis. Start training tomorrow with hospice. I made that decision when I was hypo-manic. I am dreading it but I made the commitment so I will try it out for awhile. At least I will understand if they are depressed and I won't have to try to fake happiness either. Maybe it will get me out of my own head. Introspection can be depressing in of itself.
I will run options by my pdoc when I see her and see if she can recommend a good therapist.
Thank you
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