![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
I just want to let everyone know how much I appreciate all the support I've gotten on this forum.
There were so many times during therapy that I was just distraught and you all helped me get through those times.
You are all amazing strong caring people and I'm so glad to have met you.
I'm done with therapy now so I probably won't be posting much but maybe I will poke in from time to time to say hello.
Take care.
Posted by B2chica on October 26, 2005, at 11:28:28
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
love having you here cricket, hope you can post once in a while. but getting on with your life is great proof of accomplishing what you wanted to in therapy!
best wishes for you always.
b2c.
Posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 14:42:32
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
> I'm done with therapy now so I probably won't be posting much but maybe I will poke in from time to time to say hello.
I’m inferring that you decided to stop seeing your therapist. After the things you posted about last week I’m not terribly surprised.
But I know you tried so hard to keep making it work when it things were rough. And I’m sorry that despite your best efforts you were so very hurt at the end.
I do hope you’ll keep posting from time to time because I've really enjoyed talking to you here.
Look after yourself.
Tamar
Posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 15:06:23
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone, posted by B2chica on October 26, 2005, at 11:28:28
Thanks Chica.
It is definitely time to get on with my life.
Posted by Dinah on October 26, 2005, at 15:22:49
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
Cricket, what's going on? I know we were awfully rough on your therapist last week. Did you talk to him about your concerns? Did he have any sort of explanation?
I understand wanting to get on with life. I sort of feel that way myself right now. Well, maybe not precisely that way. It's hard to figure out my melange of emotions.
Posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 15:26:38
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » cricket, posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 14:42:32
> I’m inferring that you decided to stop seeing your therapist. After the things you posted about last week I’m not terribly surprised.
>
Yeah. Not an easy decision.> But I know you tried so hard to keep making it work when it things were rough. And I’m sorry that despite your best efforts you were so very hurt at the end.
>
Yes, at this point I think that we both tried really hard. So maybe that helps and I don't feel so hurt right now. Just sorry and sad.> I do hope you’ll keep posting from time to time because I've really enjoyed talking to you here.
>
Thanks Tamar. I enjoyed talking to you too.
Posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 15:47:20
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » cricket, posted by Dinah on October 26, 2005, at 15:22:49
Hi Dinah,
Thanks for your concern. If you can all bear to hear it again, here's what happened.
I told him that I didn't think I should continue therapy.
He asked why.
I said, "Well I don't think you would ever say to anyone that sees themselves as a single person that they are like the people who abused them. But because I'm in parts it's okay to say it to me. I don't see how it's helpful to me."
I actually managed to look at him as I said this and I am so glad because he immediately flushed bright red, his eyes rolled back slightly and he
glazed over. Actually I thought he was going to pass out for a second.He blurted out, "But I was talking to you."
I said, "But I can't just leave them at home. I wish I could but it doesn't work like that. They are here listening."
Then he went on his usual mile a minute spiel about child development(blah, blah, blah). At one point he said, "All I am saying is that a bird
uses twigs they find in their environment to make a nest."I thought yeah you're really grasping at straws (twigs) here.
He didn't apologize. That would have gone a long way for me. But I guess he thought that some inane comments on birds was worth more than an
apology.So I am sitting there planning what to do with all the extra money I will now have.
He's going on about recriminations and things going sour between us. He's contradicting himself like crazy. First saying he just wanted to protect one of my parts so she would feel comfortable speaking and wouldn't flee. Then saying all the problems started because this one part (the one he wanted to protect)put a gag order on another part (the tough one who would have had the abortion according to him).
I actually started to feel sorry for him at a certain point. He was all over the place. He kept on saying, "otherwise this is nothing but torture for you." I'm not sure what he was trying to say was the point of the torture. I didn't understand that. But he got the torture right at least.
Then he said, "Do you really feel like you have to make this decision today? Can you take one more week to think about it?"
I agreed. I'm not sure why.
Other than I do have the part that feels like she will die without him. I don't know what I will do with her.
And I guess I do feel sorry for him. I definitely did at that point.
But I am also closed down and when I think about it being over with I just feel relieved.
Posted by Damos on October 26, 2005, at 16:58:57
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
Dearest Cricket,
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to be a part of your life. I'm so glad I had the chance to talk with you on Babble and get to know you just a little.
You're a strong, amazing and caring person too don't you forget that. I'm sorry therapy ended for you the way it has. But I do hope you'll pop in to say "Hi", just so we know you're okay. You'll be missed sweet Cricket, and you'll never be far from my thoughts.
Take good care of you.
(((((Cricket)))))
Posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2005, at 17:46:49
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » Dinah, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 15:47:20
> At one point he said, "All I am saying is that a bird uses twigs they find in their environment to make a nest."
yeah. i think thats the bit about how none of this is your fault, you internalised stuff from your environment. your troubles aren't of your own making. sounds like... miscommunication is a major problem. and that isn't anybodies fault. but it is a major problem. one that you guys really don't seem to be able to see your way around.
> So I am sitting there planning what to do with all the extra money I will now have.
:-)
> He's going on about recriminations and things going sour between us. He's contradicting himself like crazy. First saying he just wanted to protect one of my parts so she would feel comfortable speaking and wouldn't flee. Then saying all the problems started because this one part (the one he wanted to protect)put a gag order on another part (the tough one who would have had the abortion according to him).you have the power. you have the power back.
:-)
what he says... is probably right enough. but because of the miscommunications... it hasn't really helped. i mean. and i want to say this as gently as possible... but i don't know the circumstances around your pregnancy. i think it would be understandable to have some nervousness etc. it would be understandable for a single person to contemplate abortion. and so one part saying thats what she would have done, well... thats the same thing as saying that a single person contemplated that. or had that thought occur to them. there really... isn't anything more to it than that. i do think... that that is understandable. it doesn't make you like your abusers. it doesn't mean you have a 'bad' part or 'bad' feelings. and you have your son now and you clearly love him very much. hold on to that and don't beat yourself up. really.
> Then he said, "Do you really feel like you have to make this decision today? Can you take one more week to think about it?"
> I agreed. I'm not sure why.i think thats probably a good thing. to make sure that you are really happy with this decision and you aren't making a hasty decision because you are upset about something that is going to blow over.
> And I guess I do feel sorry for him. I definitely did at that point.see, you aren't cold and heartless. you really are very caring. really very caring to be concerned about him.
> Other than I do have the part that feels like she will die without him. I don't know what I will do with her.
look after her. she is the little part that just needs to be loved and cared for and respected. and you are a loving, caring, and respectful person. you can care for her. really. and in a way... i think that what she most needs is your acceptance. treasure her. she is beautiful cricket. a very precious little part of you.
and as for the other one... i guess she might be harder to accept. because she has rage and frustration. but i guess... she just wants to be heard too. and reconceptualising stuff can help... appreciating that yes she is there and yes she has those feelings. and that that is okay. but there is more to you than that. there are other feelings too. other thoughts. and once you take them all into account... (like with the abortion thing) yeah, part of you thought about that. but what the body decided was to have the kid. and now you have him. and i'm sure you treasure him.
you are a good person cricket.
Posted by Shortelise on October 26, 2005, at 22:17:07
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
Posted by Tamar on October 27, 2005, at 4:41:14
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » Dinah, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 15:47:20
Gosh, cricket, that sounds like an incredibly difficult session.
I don’t understand why he didn’t apologise. I think I understand (after Alex suggested an explanation) about the birds and the twigs. But I really think in the circumstances an apology was in order.
I think this is very interesting:
> I actually managed to look at him as I said this and I am so glad because he immediately flushed bright red, his eyes rolled back slightly and he glazed over. Actually I thought he was going to pass out for a second.It sounds as if he had no idea that you would be so upset at what he said, and he spent most of the session trying to explain himself to you. Did he ask you at all what you were thinking and feeling about it?
I admit I don’t know much about parts. And perhaps it’s interesting to hear him say what he thinks has been going on with your parts. Do you think he’s right? Do you think it’s relevant? I think what he’s saying makes some sense: he tried to protect one part, but then she wouldn’t let another part speak and when that part did get to speak she had problems with your T’s authority (not surprisingly, if he’s protecting a part that silences her)… Maybe I didn’t understand correctly… But I guess my question is: what’s he going to do for the tough one? Because she needs a lot of patience and understanding and she really needs to be heard, and maybe she’s less easy to get along with than the little girl who needs him. And I’m not sure he understands at all where the tough one is coming from, so maybe he just needs to shut up and listen to her and not try too hard to interpret. I don’t think he’ll understand how sensitive she is unless he spends some time just listening. Right now, on the basis of what you’ve been posting recently, that would be my question to him. How is he going to help with the tough part? (If I’m talking complete rubbish, please either ignore me or put me right.)
> Then he said, "Do you really feel like you have to make this decision today? Can you take one more week to think about it?"
>
> I agreed. I'm not sure why.I’m glad you agreed because even if you decide you don’t want to continue therapy with him, it’s probably a decision best made over the course of a little time.
I’m usually very optimistic that people can work things out with their therapists. And I do think you can work through this with yours, even though it will be very painful. My real concern, though, is that you’ve been working very hard recently to get through session after session of crossed wires or misunderstandings or hurtful remarks. And you can’t go on like that for months. But I don’t know whether you can plan for a couple of light and easy sessions…
My other concern is my sense (based of course only on a few posts you’ve made and on no significant knowledge of the situation) that although he wants very much to help you, he’s either not feeling confident enough of his skills, or he’s making mistakes for other reasons.
Well, you’ve agreed to think about it for a week. And I really think that’s a good thing. How are you going to decide? Will you sit down and make a list of reasons to stay and reasons to go? Will you think about how each of your parts will respond to your leaving therapy? Will you just go with your gut?
I can imagine the relief of the idea that it’s over. It’s been very hard. I hope the deciding part goes as well as can be expected.
Tamar
Posted by cricket on October 27, 2005, at 13:44:53
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » cricket, posted by Damos on October 26, 2005, at 16:58:57
Thanks Damos. I really appreciate the time you take to support me and everyone else here.
I think I am going to be okay. A little weepy and sad right now. Just grief I guess, but nothing unmanageable.
I really do need to get a life though. :-)
Posted by cricket on October 27, 2005, at 13:55:51
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone, posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2005, at 17:46:49
>
> yeah. i think thats the bit about how none of this is your fault, you internalised stuff from your environment. your troubles aren't of your own making. sounds like... miscommunication is a major problem. and that isn't anybodies fault. but it is a major problem. one that you guys really don't seem to be able to see your way around.
>
Yes, that's how I feel now. The anger I felt last week is gone but I also know that we'll just keep dragging each other down going around in these circles.
>
> what he says... is probably right enough. but because of the miscommunications... it hasn't really helped. i mean. and i want to say this as gently as possible... but i don't know the circumstances around your pregnancy. i think it would be understandable to have some nervousness etc. it would be understandable for a single person to contemplate abortion. and so one part saying thats what she would have done, well... thats the same thing as saying that a single person contemplated that. or had that thought occur to them. there really... isn't anything more to it than that. i do think... that that is understandable. it doesn't make you like your abusers. it doesn't mean you have a 'bad' part or 'bad' feelings. and you have your son now and you clearly love him very much. hold on to that and don't beat yourself up. really.
>
Thanks Alex. I'll try not to.> i think thats probably a good thing. to make sure that you are really happy with this decision and you aren't making a hasty decision because you are upset about something that is going to blow over.
>
Yes, just letting day by day go by and see how I feel. Right now just a little more peaceful, but sad.> > And I guess I do feel sorry for him. I definitely did at that point.
>
> see, you aren't cold and heartless. you really are very caring. really very caring to be concerned about him.
>
Thanks Alex.
> look after her. she is the little part that just needs to be loved and cared for and respected. and you are a loving, caring, and respectful person. you can care for her. really. and in a way... i think that what she most needs is your acceptance. treasure her. she is beautiful cricket. a very precious little part of you.
>
> and as for the other one... i guess she might be harder to accept. because she has rage and frustration. but i guess... she just wants to be heard too. and reconceptualising stuff can help... appreciating that yes she is there and yes she has those feelings. and that that is okay. but there is more to you than that. there are other feelings too. other thoughts. and once you take them all into account... (like with the abortion thing) yeah, part of you thought about that. but what the body decided was to have the kid. and now you have him. and i'm sure you treasure him.
>
> you are a good person cricket.
>
Thanks Alex. Tears and hugs. I will try to come here and post whenever I forget that.
>
>
Posted by cricket on October 27, 2005, at 14:47:23
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » cricket, posted by Tamar on October 27, 2005, at 4:41:14
Tamar,
You are always so helpful and I feel like I haven't ever helped you with your issues. I might have to stick around Babble just to do that :-)
But I really think in the circumstances an apology was in order.
>
Yeah, I kept on waiting for it but I think his physical reaction was so much an "omigosh I've blundered" reaction that he didn't want to draw more attention to it as a mistake.> It sounds as if he had no idea that you would be so upset at what he said, and he spent most of the session trying to explain himself to you.
Did he ask you at all what you were thinking and feeling about it?Exactly. It was non-stop talk from him. It felt like he barely took a breath. I didn't have much chance to say anything at all. If it hadn't been such a despairing couple of weeks I might have even thought it was cute.
>
> I admit I don’t know much about parts. And perhaps it’s interesting to hear him say what he thinks has been going on with your parts. Do you think he’s right? Do you think it’s relevant? I think what he’s saying makes some sense: he tried to protect one part, but then she wouldn’t let another part speak and when that part did get to speak she had problems with your T’s authority (not surprisingly, if he’s protecting a part that silences her)… Maybe I didn’t understand correctly… But I guess my question is: what’s he going to do for the tough one? Because she needs a lot of patience and understanding and she really needs to be heard, and maybe she’s less easy to get along with than the little girl who needs him. And I’m not sure he understands at all where the tough one is coming from, so maybe he just needs to shut up and listen to her and not try too hard to interpret. I don’t think he’ll understand how sensitive she is unless he spends some time just listening. Right now, on the basis of what you’ve been posting recently, that would be my question to him. How is he going to help with the tough part? (If I’m talking complete rubbish, please either ignore me or put me right.)
>
No, you have it right. I guess I had this To Sir with Love fantasy that he would get her to trust him and then begin to expect more of her and she would grow and change.> I’m glad you agreed because even if you decide you don’t want to continue therapy with him, it’s probably a decision best made over the course of a little time.
>
Yes, just taking it one day at a time right now. Today is okay. Yesterday was okay too. Tomorrow I don't know.> I’m usually very optimistic that people can work things out with their therapists. And I do think you can work through this with yours, even though it will be very painful. My real concern, though, is that you’ve been working very hard recently to get through session after session of crossed wires or misunderstandings or hurtful remarks. And you can’t go on like that for months. But I don’t know whether you can plan for a couple of light and easy sessions…
>
> My other concern is my sense (based of course only on a few posts you’ve made and on no significant knowledge of the situation) that although he wants very much to help you, he’s either not feeling confident enough of his skills, or he’s making mistakes for other reasons.
>Yes, and I am afraid that we could both wind up more and more miserable every week. Sometimes I think maybe we could break through if I could be absolutely completely honest with him about both the good and the bad (I think of the way Dinah is with her therapist) and he in turn would be more authentic with me and I think that authenticity would lead to less blunders on his part. His blunders seem to come from relying too much on theory and not enough on knowledge of me and what is happening with me at that moment. I give him too little to go on so he winds up feeling de-skilled and incompetent and then he gets defensive and miscommunication happens. Then I withdraw and give him even less to go on and things get worse and worse. Does any of that make sense?
I think if I wanted to stay in therapy I would try to hash it out with him some more rather than go to someone new but I think I just want to be done with therapy for now.
> Well, you’ve agreed to think about it for a week. And I really think that’s a good thing. How are you going to decide? Will you sit down and make a list of reasons to stay and reasons to go? Will you think about how each of your parts will respond to your leaving therapy? Will you just go with your gut?
>
I wish I could be that rational. If I could just think about it, I am sure I could hold all the conflicting thoughts in my mind and come up with the right decision but all I can really do is feel and once an emotion takes hold it's hard to do anything but go with that emotion. So if one is feeling like she will die without him that's how I feel and if another one feels like he's like every authority figure and expects the worst from her that's how I feel. There are others that are more neutral and some that are skeptical but could probably be won over to tolerate therapy at least. But it really comes down to a battle between these 2 girls.> I can imagine the relief of the idea that it’s over. It’s been very hard. I hope the deciding part goes as well as can be expected.
>
I hope so too. Right now it's okay but perhaps when it gets closer to the next time I am supposed to show up the battle will start again.>
>
Posted by Tamar on October 27, 2005, at 19:55:55
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » Tamar, posted by cricket on October 27, 2005, at 14:47:23
Hi cricket,
> You are always so helpful and I feel like I haven't ever helped you with your issues. I might have to stick around Babble just to do that :-)
I know that you have helped me with my issues! For example, I remember when I discovered I didn’t have the message from my therapist I thought I’d saved. And you said really supportive and helpful things. I just went back and read your posts on that thread and I was thinking again about what you said, and reading it again was very helpful :)
> Exactly. It was non-stop talk from him. It felt like he barely took a breath. I didn't have much chance to say anything at all. If it hadn't been such a despairing couple of weeks I might have even thought it was cute.
That’s quite interesting because (if I remember correctly) you used to say that you liked it when he did all the talking. I’ve had the impression you’ve been doing a bit more talking in recent weeks/months and maybe he’s been so used to your silence and his talking that he hasn’t yet managed to get into the habit of letting you talk. I wonder what it would be like if he spent an entire session listening and perhaps asking clarification questions or questions about how you are feeling, without doing a lot of interpreting…
> No, you have it right. I guess I had this To Sir with Love fantasy that he would get her to trust him and then begin to expect more of her and she would grow and change.
Now that would be interesting to talk about in therapy. I wonder whether he would see that as a useful goal, or whether he wouldn’t get it, or whether he’d have a theoretical reason for approaching it differently. But I can certainly understand that fantasy; it makes a lot of sense.
> Yes, and I am afraid that we could both wind up more and more miserable every week. Sometimes I think maybe we could break through if I could be absolutely completely honest with him about both the good and the bad (I think of the way Dinah is with her therapist) and he in turn would be more authentic with me and I think that authenticity would lead to less blunders on his part.
Yes… and it’s hard to be completely honest. Also, I imagine you might want him to go first with the authenticity. And yet… I think the way therapy works tends to require that we go first (ouch). But also, haven’t there been moments when he’s been more authentic? I’m thinking of the time he said he cares about you and worries about you and likes you – which, as far as I can tell, came out of your decision to assume that he cares about you instead of assuming he doesn’t. Didn’t he tell you that he wants you to keep coming and not to go away? That seemed like a good session (one of the few good sessions you described in the last few months).
> His blunders seem to come from relying too much on theory and not enough on knowledge of me and what is happening with me at that moment. I give him too little to go on so he winds up feeling de-skilled and incompetent and then he gets defensive and miscommunication happens. Then I withdraw and give him even less to go on
and things get worse and worse. Does any of that make sense?It makes perfect sense. When I was posting about what I thought might be a lack of confidence on his part, I kept thinking, ‘And yet, he knows the theory. I’m sure he knows the theory.’ But I think you’re right: to make progress he needs to build up a knowledge of you. And it might be scary for you to let him do that, because you’d have to reveal so much of yourself…
> I wish I could be that rational. If I could just think about it, I am sure I could hold all the conflicting thoughts in my mind and come up with the right decision but all I can really do is feel and once an emotion takes hold it's hard to do anything but go with that emotion. So if one is feeling like she will die without him that's how I feel and if another one feels like he's like every authority figure and expects the worst from her that's how I feel. There are others that are more neutral and some that are skeptical but could probably be won over to tolerate therapy at least. But it really comes down to a battle between these 2 girls.Do the two girls ‘talk’ to each other? Does the older one have any sympathy for the younger one? I know you say the older girl is tough, but I remember tough girls from when I was at school and they were fundamentally decent people who could be very generous when they weren’t feeling too threatened by the system.
> I hope so too. Right now it's okay but perhaps when it gets closer to the next time I am supposed to show up the battle will start again.
Yeah, I can imagine there could be quite a conflict. It must be very difficult to try to satisfy very diverse needs. I hope you manage to work things out in a way that makes sense to you.
Tamar
Posted by kerria on October 28, 2005, at 11:02:06
In reply to Thanks to everyone, posted by cricket on October 26, 2005, at 11:22:21
((((((Cricket))))))
Hi. What do you mean, you're done with therapy?
i know that i don't understand so much of what's made you feel like quitting but i think that you should give yourself another chance. Really a lot of more chances because it's hard to be multiple and it's so hard to find a T to work with to get better- less separated into parts.One of the hardest things is to try to have a good self image when you have parts. My Parts are opposites. They're polarized, at extreme sides against each other. i can't look at one part and her thoughts and actions and take my self image from that- you shouldn't either- we are the sum of our parts. Our parts are extreme and it's not our fault - we've been split up because of trauma and not there isn't a nicely balanced person in any one part. i'm so sorry that it's like that. Please realize that all the parts together are you and give your parts grace. You need them all.
When we're multiple we have the chance to have every possible viewpoint on every single thing that happens -one part will always be opposite another , in my system anyways - it's not how we feel- just one part's way of seeing it,
it's so hard to live this way, we misunderstand ourselves and other misunderstand us because of the polarized opposite views we have. Please don't take one without the others. You love and have ALWAYS loved your child.And Cricket, there are other therapists out there. Don't give up therapy because of one therapist not working out. i don't know all of what happened but you can always change therapists and not give up. You're worth it.
(((((Cricket)))))
sending comfort & safe hugs,
kerria
This is the end of the thread.
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