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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jammerlich on September 11, 2005, at 16:07:00
I didn't want to hijack the crying thread above, but it got me to thinking. Do those of you who don't cry remember some defining moment where you learned that it wasn't an okay thing to do?
For me, whether or not it's ok seems to be linked to subject matter and the amount of power over me I think the people with me have. If it's about my childhood or my parents, the tears absolutely cannot fall. If I feel them starting to well up, terror comes over me and I just KNOW that horrible things will happen if I let them out. But if my husband so much as looks at me funny, I can be reduced to a puddle on the floor. And when I was in therapy, I cried over surface stuff all the time - until I started to feel dependent on my therapist. Then the terror and paralysis set in and I couldn't cry about anything.
And I'm pretty sure I know why. The father got angry that I cried when he hurt me and he finally told me he'd "give me a real reason to cry" if I did it again. Well, I did it again and he was true to his word. I never cried again after that. I thought I'd be able to write here what happened, but I don't think I can. One, because it's the thing I'm most ashamed of and two, because I'm starting to feel the "terror tears."
Posted by alexandra_k on September 11, 2005, at 16:15:55
In reply to *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by jammerlich on September 11, 2005, at 16:07:00
Yeah, I learned not to cry in front of my mother. If I cried she'd just get madder and hit me harder or whatever. I learned to go numb instead but that doesn't generalise very well to other contexts. In therapy... Sometimes I'm just a blubbering mess.
:-(
Not very pretty.It can be hard...
For me to find the balance between shutting it all down and going numb...
And really letting rip with heart wrenching sobs.
Neither of those really help, but I guess I never really learned to cry properly.
To just kind of let it out without clinging to it or winding myself up into a worse state.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2005, at 17:18:31
In reply to Re: *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger* » jammerlich, posted by alexandra_k on September 11, 2005, at 16:15:55
I've got the context sensitive crying thing, too. I can cry over movies with no problem -- you can pretty much tell when I'm renting old movies by Kleenex stock prices -- and I have even had periods when even shows like Law & Order will set me to crying for days. But somehow, crying about things that have happened to me is different. Especially all the "this shouldn't have hurt me" things, like the nightmare I went through last year with trying to get treatment. Somehow, no matter how much that actually did hurt me, I still feel ashamed that I found it painful. Therefore, I'm not supposed to cry about it.
I wasn't beaten as a kid, my mother likes to tell about the three times she ever hit me -- once when I was teething and she just reacted when I used her hand; once with a rolled up newspaper on my thighs (apparently she couldn't keep straight Dr Spock and Barbara Woodhouse); and the last one I forget -- but I did get a lot of ridicule for being "too thin-skinned," for "not being able to take a joke," for "needing to toughen up." All that [expletive deleted] that some people offer up to kids.
And I also find that I'm like a dying animal when I need to cry -- I have to get away from everyone, because otherwise I'm much too vulnerable.
This was on my mind the other day, wondering if the criteria for "atypical depression" fit me better than plain-vanilla. I don't think it does, even though I don't "look" depressed when I have to go out. It's not that my mood actually improves, it's just that I can hide my mood so well that I look fine and pretty well act fine. As soon as I'm alone again, though, I collapse again. I think it's just hiding my vulnerability so well that even I can't really find it.
{shrug}
I dunno. Maybe I"m just full of [you know what] and none of this matters... But I think that's all true, and I think that's how it all works for me.
Posted by happyflower on September 11, 2005, at 18:20:52
In reply to *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by jammerlich on September 11, 2005, at 16:07:00
Yeah, if I cried as a child even during physical abuse, my mother would hit me harder and longer. She threated to kill me if I ever told my dad about the beatings. Sometimes I was beat for no reason at all(not that there is any reason for a beating) and I learned not to cry to get it over with faster.
It was so sad as adult about 12 years ago, when my grandpa died and I was his funeral and I was overcomed with tears and no one offered comfort, even my dad (which i guess doesn't surprise me) I am just glad my mom wasn't there or who know what she would have done. But as an adult if she tried to lay a hand on me, she would regret that she ever touched me. But as a child I was helpless and trapped. Yes, I was trained not to cry or something worse would happen. I only cry in front of my DH and sometimes my kids, because I know I am safe.
Posted by fairywings on September 12, 2005, at 7:23:41
In reply to Re: *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by happyflower on September 11, 2005, at 18:20:52
>> But as an adult if she tried to lay a hand on me, she would regret that she ever touched me. But as a child I was helpless and trapped. Yes, I was trained not to cry or something worse would happen. I only cry in front of my DH and sometimes my kids, because I know I am safe.
I'm wishing now that my dad was alive so i could take all of my anger out on him, now he's dead and i can't. i guess it's a good thing for me because maybe i'd end up in jail, but do you think you'll ever regret not taking your anger out on her in a physical way? i'm not encouraging you, but i just wonder if you want to?and most of the time i can't cry, and i feel disconnected from my feelings that have to do with the childhood stuff. sometimes parents suck.
fw
Posted by jammerlich on September 12, 2005, at 9:08:34
In reply to Re: *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by fairywings on September 12, 2005, at 7:23:41
This is taking the thread in a different direction, but hey, it's my thread so I can!
One thing (of the many) that has me really confused is how I feel about my parents now. My mother - I don't like her at all. She's NOT the kind of person I would choose as a friend. In fact, she's the type of person I would steer clear of if I didn't happen to be related. But my father - the person who actually DID the bad things to me - there are things I really like about him. He's someone I WOULD choose as a friend (given, of course, that I didn't know about the things he'd done). It's hard for me to wrap my brain around that one.
Posted by cubic_me on September 12, 2005, at 11:44:12
In reply to Re: Why crying isn't okay, posted by jammerlich on September 12, 2005, at 9:08:34
I was conditioned into not crying by my mum. I went for years and years without crying, finally 'letting go' for the first time when I was at uni and my best friend had killed herself. I still cry only very rarely, the hardest part is really wanting to cry and not being able to. I suppose that's part of the reason why I turned to self injury.
The only emotion I show infront of my mum is happiness, and that isn't very pronounced. Any other emotion or emotional gesture is out of the question for me.
Posted by daisym on September 12, 2005, at 20:47:02
In reply to Re: Why crying isn't okay, posted by jammerlich on September 12, 2005, at 9:08:34
It isn't that unusual to like or love the very person who abused you. Because often there is a cycle that involved giving and love and other positive things. The person who didn't save you, well, that is a whole other matter.
I'm sure it is different for every person. I love my dad, he was my primary caretaker when I was little (0-3) and I was "special" in ways beyond the csa. He treated me like an adult and I idolized him. And feared and hated him too. But the tenderness and physical comfort I needed as a child all came from him too, so I was really confused. Now, as an adult, I see many things about my dad I like and I have absolutely separated him into good dad/bad dad.
My mother is someone I totally admire but I don't think she likes me and I know I've disappointed her by not living up to my potential. So I find it harder to be around her than my dad. Go figure...
Posted by sleepygirl on September 13, 2005, at 19:54:51
In reply to *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by jammerlich on September 11, 2005, at 16:07:00
Yes, I remember all to well the "I'll give you something to cry about!" I gotta say: not the most soothing response in the world.
-still waiting to get hit/yelled at
Posted by Racer on September 15, 2005, at 20:17:53
In reply to *Trigger* Why crying isn't okay *Trigger*, posted by jammerlich on September 11, 2005, at 16:07:00
I used to be much more embarrassed by my crying, because of all the times as a kid when I was ridiculed for crying, and told I had to "toughen up."
Then I had some friends who used to tease me about crying at movies. We'd rent movies, pour out a glass of wine, cuddle into out chairs with dog or cat -- and someone would say, "Whoops! Nearly forgot!" She'd come back and plop a box of tissues down beside me, and everyone would laugh. The first time or two, I was uncomfortable with this -- expecially since they'd even get the tissues for things like "The Princess Bride" since it includes historical costumes, which they said was enough to set me off -- but once I realized that they were doing it INclusively, rather than EXclusively, it became quite cozy. I could start to enter into the joke, because it was so clear that they were making it OK for me to cry.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but it really did help me to have my easy crying accepted by others. Made it much easier for me to accept it, too.
Posted by jammerlich on September 15, 2005, at 21:58:02
In reply to Another thought I have about this..., posted by Racer on September 15, 2005, at 20:17:53
Thanks for sharing more thoughts, Racer. I'm sure for some people the thing that keeps them from crying is embarrassment or humiliation. For me, it doesn't happen to be quite like that - it's the terror of one specific situation. I mean TERROR - all those old feelings come back when the tears well up and I feel like my whole world will end if I let so much as one fall.
******MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT******I think the fact that I cried put a damper on the sa experience for my father. He finally got fed up with it and told me if I didn't stop, he'd kill my cat. At that point I couldn't, and he was true to his word, only he made me do it. Never cried after that.
Now that I have sufficiently humiliated myself, I will leave.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 15, 2005, at 23:15:58
In reply to Re: Another thought I have about this**Trigger** » Racer, posted by jammerlich on September 15, 2005, at 21:58:02
oh, jammerlich, I'm so terribly sorry you had to live through that. That's horrific. No wonder you can't/won't cry. No wonder at all. :-(
I wish you didn't feel humiliated. I don't think you did a thing to humiliate yourself here.
You know, I've come to see that there's really NOTHING you can say, write, ask, vent about, or feel here on Babble that would make us want you to go away - ever.
Hope you don't leave for too long.
(((jammerlich)))
Posted by daisym on September 15, 2005, at 23:45:53
In reply to Re: Another thought I have about this**Trigger** » Racer, posted by jammerlich on September 15, 2005, at 21:58:02
You have nothing to be humiliated about. Repeat this 100 times, and then 100 more. You were a child being victimized and threatened.
My dad used to say, "don't worry, I won't tell mom you were bad." When I told my therapist this, he swore. This scared me, but slowly, very, very slowly I've come to realize that he wasn't angry at me but rather at my dad. And I'm trying very hard to work out whose fault it was and what my part in it was. The fall out all these years later is hard to live with.
But i understand. And you don't need to feel humiliated, especially with us. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Posted by Damos on September 16, 2005, at 0:13:10
In reply to Re: Another thought I have about this**Trigger** » Racer, posted by jammerlich on September 15, 2005, at 21:58:02
10derHeart and Daisym said it all. That took enourmous courage to post. Thank you for being so brave.
Please don't go.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2005, at 8:38:18
In reply to ((((((((((jammerlich)))))))))), posted by Damos on September 16, 2005, at 0:13:10
I agree. I know the feeling of wanting to run away after disclosing something so painful and honest. And one that maybe has a bit of shame tangled up in it? That darned shame...it's not ours, you know. It's theirs. People who do bad things to children cannot handle their own shame about it, so they hand it off to the child to carry for them. How cruel is that? And so very confusing for the child.
I'm so very sorry that happened to you. I hope you find that this is a safe place for you to express what you need to.
Take care,
gg
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