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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
I learned something important in therapy today: I'm not normal. It really makes it worth getting up in the morning when you can learn something new. Here I've been deluding myself for years, thinking I was normal!
I had a rough weekend. Lots of anxiety. So I employed a bit of distraction. On Saturday I spent (a number of) hours playing a computer game. On Sunday I spent (a number of hours) watching TV. I told my therapist about this because I figured that these behaviors were an indication that something was wrong. We spent just about all of the session with him asking me in myriad different ways "Do you think that it is *normal* for people to get anxious and not be able to go on with their lives?" "People get anxious all the time, but do they stop being able to function?" etc.
If I thought it were normal behavior, I never would have told him about it. Duh!!!
It was like he was going to keep pushing until I said in exactly these words "My behavior this weekend wasn't NORMAL".
If my behavior was always normal, I wouldn't have to go to see him 3/week.
He didn't suggest anything that I *should* have done. He just wanted me to speak in a full sentance and tell him that what I *DID* do was "abnormal". He was definately not a CBT therapist today. They love to tell you what to do. All he could say was "Why do you think you did that?"
It has been a long time since I've felt criticized by him. But I feel criticized today. It feels like he said "Stop being such an idiot, and just do what everyone else does. Just be NORMAL". Gee, and all this time, I thought the goal was to be abnormal.
Why am I so angry about this? Is it because he wasted a whole session trying to get me to see something that I saw before I entered the room? Is it because he wouldn't accept it when I suggested that perhaps there was a better way to deal with my anxiety - he kept pushing until I said it clearly enough that he was sure that I wasn't missing it. Is it because I felt like he kept suggesting that I wasn't understanding something that was so blatently obvious? Is it because I feel like I've failed, when I was just trying to hold it together? Is it because when I play the computer game now, it just makes me angrier - it doesn't soothe me anymore? Is it because I won't see him until Thursday, and by then I won't be angry anymore - so I will have wasted all this good anger and all I'll have to show for it will be that I'll be eaten up inside?
Posted by Poet on June 20, 2005, at 21:32:03
In reply to Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
Hi Fallsfall,
Tell your T that I PBC him. He said or implied something that made you feel put down.
I think being able to concentrate on a computer game or sit/lay and watch TV while feeling extremely anxious is a positive way to cope. When I am having an anxiety attack, concentrating on anything for long is a major task. Your distractions were positive ones- not harmful emotionally or physically. That seems pretty normal to abnormal, actually I prefer, antinormal me.
Maybe your T was trying to play devil's advocate and get you to say that what you did was (very quiet) normal behavior in response to an anxiety ridden weekend? My T sometimes tries that with me. She'll agree with something negative I say about myself to try to get me to argue and contradict myself.
Eat some ice cream before your next session for strength. That's pretty darn normal behavior, too.
00> (that's supposed to be a double scoop ice cream cone)
Poet
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2005, at 21:35:13
In reply to Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
Hi sweetie, I'm not normal, btw, either. :). Wait, that normal curve does include outliers, too. Shoot, I think we both ARE normal.
Your session reminds me of one when I was lamenting that I still do avoidance behavior and procrastination, even though we've made progress in therapy. The example I gave was going to the dentist. I had been really good about following up with all the work I needed done, but for some reason I cancelled the last round of work (we had to space it out over 3 years due to insurance caps). So his response was to say "Nobody wants to go to the dentist!".
He really didn't hear what I was saying. I was saying I actually did want to go to the dentist, that I was proud that I had been following up with all of it, because it was a bit overwhelming a couple of years ago to go back to the dentist after more than six years away and to hear all that needed to be done. I was very proud of that, and I was frustrated that I had then cancelled. It is classic GG avoidance behavior. I wish he could have seen this aspect and maybe asked me in what other ways I am avoiding...like oh, say, my dissertation? Instead, I get this flip answer and we move on.
I think maybe you wanted your T to talk more about the anxiety? Your behavior, as you see it, is a symptom of that. Now if you really were not feeling anxious, and rather were just "normally" spending your time that way, I suppose he could "normalize" this behavior. But it sounds like the anxiety is what you were trying to get at.
Grrrrrrr. Why can't they get what we are saying all the time? Oh wait, that would mean I have to do that, too. sigh
Take care,
gg
Posted by LadyBug on June 20, 2005, at 22:16:36
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2005, at 21:35:13
Why is it that we are so sensitive to what comes out of their mouth????? I know I am. Is it because we care so much about what they think of us?? Sometimes I think they use their BUZZ words to engage us into changing the way we are thinking about something. My T. said something to me in my last session about my gourp of friends. I was hurt by it, but didn't say anything.
I think you ARE normal. If isn't normal to play on the computer one day or watch tv, then many of us are in big trouble!!!!
Don't let him get away with that, tell him how it made you feel when you see him next.
LadyBug
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2005, at 22:41:07
In reply to Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
That's not normal?
I dunno, Falls. I think you're asking the wrong group of people.
I fall face forward into a forgetting sleep when I'm anxious. Or upset.
I can't do my work on my best days.
It just doesn't sound all that abnormal to me. It sounds like basic human nature.
Now... My husband would haul himself up and do whatever needs doing despite his anxiety. Then he'd yell at me or my son, or scare the dogs.
So I guess there are people who go on with doing what needs to be done regardless of their feelings. Yank themselves up by the bootstraps, yada, yada.
But they've got their own ways of letting that anxiety out.
There are worse ways of coping than distraction, Falls. Maybe there are better ways too, like getting all involved in work. But there are also worse ways, like yelling at your family.
But as gg said, maybe the significant thing was your anxiety and why you were anxious. Rather than how you coped with that anxiety.
Posted by daisym on June 20, 2005, at 23:53:36
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2005, at 22:41:07
I think we all wonder if our coping mechanisms are "normal" -- I think society likes some things (baking, cleaning, working) and not others. As a society we are quick to label things good or bad based on their perceived productive value. I think therapists fall into this too, sometimes.
There might be a bunch of reasons why he was pushing you. I guess next time you say, "I was anxious this weekend" and leave it at that. It makes me think of what my son's therapist says all the time to me: "the goal isn't that he doesn't experience anxiety, it is that he copes with it and it doesn't keep him from living his life."
I hope you write all this down so it doesn't get lost by Thursday. Until then, cool the anger with ice cream.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by All Done on June 21, 2005, at 1:06:43
In reply to Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
(((((Falls))))),
What is normal? Sounds like your T must have his own set of coping mechanisms and the ones you employed this weekend didn't fall into his definition of "normal". That's *his* stuff.
I constantly need alone time where I don't do anything productive other than clearing my mind for a while (which I would argue can be very productive). My T understands my need for this time. He's never indicated to me that this isn't "normal". I also have friends who aren't dealing with mental health issues and they do the same.
I'm a little surprised that your T is labeling any behavior of yours as normal or abnormal. That must feel pretty lousy for you. I think it's important that you talk to him about it even if by Thursday you aren't feeling angry.
I hope you can get through this quickly so you can get to the bottom of your anxiety.
Take care of yourself and until Thursday do what you know works - lots of ice cream, games, and TV.
Big hugs,
Laurie
Posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 2:23:48
In reply to Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2005, at 20:48:38
I spend hours everyday on the computer. But, I think these days it is normal, sure beats the heck out of drinking, or smoking pot or something. If it made you feel better then what's the problem. Are you going to bring up to him how he made you feel? Seems pretty crappy to me.
Jazzy (((((hugs())))))
Posted by happyflower on June 21, 2005, at 2:25:30
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls » fallsfall, posted by All Done on June 21, 2005, at 1:06:43
I think I like to zone out epecially after my session with my T. I either like to sleep or play solatair on my pc while listening to love songs on the pc radio. I drive my family nuts with this because I am in totally zoned out.
I remember as a kid when I played video games it worked to zone me out but eventally when I got tired, I would become frustrated with them. Do what you need to do, as long as it isn't drinking too much or doing drugs. :)
Posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 7:16:33
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls, posted by happyflower on June 21, 2005, at 2:25:30
> I think I like to zone out epecially after my session with my T.
Do you get caught up thinking about your T for hours and hours on end? Are ya in "that" zone?
I've been thinking a lot, and realizing I gave some real knee jerk reactions at my last session, have to not do that, they weren't really accurate.Jazzy
Posted by happyflower on June 21, 2005, at 8:36:29
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls » happyflower, posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 7:16:33
> > I think I like to zone out epecially after my session with my T.
>
> Do you get caught up thinking about your T for hours and hours on end? Are ya in "that" zone?
> I've been thinking a lot, and realizing I gave some real knee jerk reactions at my last session, have to not do that, they weren't really accurate.
>
>>
> I do think about him but not that much, at least not now. When I talk about being in the zone, I try not to think of anything, basically go blank.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 14:50:32
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by Poet on June 20, 2005, at 21:32:03
I love the ice cream cone!!!
He complains because it is another instance of me "dropping out". Sort of like the depression in general is an instance of me dropping out of life.
I told him I saw the behavior as not productive - but not counterproductive either.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 14:58:00
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2005, at 21:35:13
We did talk about the anxiety. And he agreed that I had cause to be anxious. And that there wasn't much I could to affect that cause. And he wouldn't give me any *better* coping techniques - he just didn't like mine. Or, to be fair, he was pointing out what mine was, and pointing out that other people handle it differently (see, I'm getting angry again!!!)
I hate the dentist, too. And they should figure out when we are saying "I'm doing better but not perfectly" that the response should be "I can see you are doing better."
Thanks, GG.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:01:47
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by LadyBug on June 20, 2005, at 22:16:36
I'll reread this thread before I go in the next time so I can remember the anger. I think it is important to let our therapists know our reactions to things they say.
Sure people play on the computer. I do that all the time. But this was 6 continuous hours of a single game - no breaks. I agree it was excessive. But it got me through the day...
Thanks for your support!
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:06:01
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2005, at 22:41:07
Right. And I told him that it DID help me to get back into life. That kind of distraction does allow me to feel better (by Monday I was doing much better). I think he sees it as yet another instance of me choosing to bail rather than face something - escapism.
We did talk about the anxiety - it sounded reasonable to him that I would be anxious. He just wanted me to handle it differently.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:09:08
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal, posted by daisym on June 20, 2005, at 23:53:36
Glossing over it doesn't seem like the right approach for me. I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't want some help on it. Somehow, though, being told that I'm "not normal" wasn't what I would include under the definition of "help". And my therapist would say that the anxiety DID keep me from living my life. Sigh.
I've been eating a lot of ice cream recently... But I think I'll eat some more.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:12:19
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls » fallsfall, posted by All Done on June 21, 2005, at 1:06:43
It felt like he was being judgemental - and he's usually SO good at NOT being judgemental. It felt like he was being critical (which I know is a tranference area for me - and I know that I need to tell him that it felt critical, *because* it is a transference area for me.).
Tell the ICK that I'm going for Mint Chocolate Chip this afternoon... And give him a hug for me.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:16:59
In reply to Re: Newsflash! I'm not normal » fallsfall, posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 2:23:48
Thanks, Jazzy.
I spend hours every day on the computer. But I tend to do a variety of things: Read/post on Babble, games, read the news, research things here and there, chat with my kids, email etc. The issue with Saturday was that it was 6 continuous hours of the same one game (I was hungry and I didn't get up to eat).
But you are right, there are much worse things that I could be doing!
I do need to talk to him about feeling criticized and angry. Last time I got angry at him, he was pleased...
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:18:18
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls, posted by happyflower on June 21, 2005, at 2:25:30
Thanks, Happyflower.
I don't drink and I don't do drugs. Maybe I'll mention that to him the next time.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:27:16
In reply to Re: You are normal, falls » Jazzed, posted by happyflower on June 21, 2005, at 8:36:29
I hate it that I can't just let things be without confessing all. I didn't tell my therapist, but I HAVE to tell you guys... And I suppose I'll have to tell him on Thursday. Why do I need to confess this? Because you guys are all supporting me and saying I am OK, but I know that I'm not? I did a little (very little) SI, too. But it is more than I've done in kind of a long time. So maybe I'm thinking that playing that computer game for 6 hours was better than some other things I could have been doing. (GG, this is what you were trying to get at, I think, when you were talking about the dentist?)
So now we can add "shame" to the "anxiety" (though, the anxiety is a bit better now). But, boy, would I rather have public shame that be holding all the shame as a secret myself - so here it is world! Notice my shamefulness!
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2005, at 18:27:15
In reply to Confession (trigger), posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:27:16
Well....
If I consider your actions shameful I'd have to consider my own that way as well.
And I don't, really.
I think we all do what we need to do to get through life as well as we can. As we learn healthier coping mechanisms we can let go of the unhealthier ones. And you're doing that!
Show yourself the same understanding and compassion you'd show others. :)
Posted by Aphrodite on June 21, 2005, at 19:22:28
In reply to Confession (trigger), posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 15:27:16
First of all, I'm so sorry that you've had that urge even if it is "little" as you say. The pain behind it isn't little.
I was confused about the timeline. Are you saying this is new or that you did it in response to your difficult session? If it's the latter, you definitely need to tell him right away because he needs to learn to be sensitive to that. Actually, I think you need to tell him as soon as possible either way. Shame and anxiety are both powerfully destructive forces and together they can interact in a very malignant way that can hurt you and prevent you from reaching out.
I'm sorry this is such a rough time for you. I say play computer games until the cows come home if it stops you from self-destruction. I'm glad you've done a practice run here. I hope it emboldens you.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 20:51:12
In reply to Re: Confession (trigger) » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2005, at 18:27:15
Yes, I am learning healthier ones. Thanks, Dinah.
Posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 20:53:44
In reply to Re: Confession (trigger) » fallsfall, posted by Aphrodite on June 21, 2005, at 19:22:28
The SI was over the weekend in response to the anxiety - not in response to the session. I just neglected to tell him about it in the session...
I will talk to him about it all on Thursday.
Thanks for your concern.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2005, at 7:13:36
In reply to Re: Confession (trigger) » Aphrodite, posted by fallsfall on June 21, 2005, at 20:53:44
Ahhh, no wonder ways of coping with anxiety came up. It sounds like you were "sitting on" one way that maybe you weren't ready to tell him. Were you trying to ease into it with talking about the computer stuff? I would imagine this would be a hard thing to tell a T, especially after a period of doing well.
(((((falls)))))))
I'm so glad you are thinking and talking about this. That's really positive.
Take care,
gg
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