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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
Hi all,
There is a question which has been on my mind for some time and is somewhat difficult to phrase.
I know some of you are dealing with difficult issues in therapy and are coping with problems such as dissociation and different child parts, etc.
Do you find that it is possible to do this kind of work while dealing with everyday demands of work or school? I know, for instance, that some of you are students. How is it possible to remain functional, retain the ability to concentrate and do all the work, and during the same period access different child parts and repressed issues and emotions?
It has always seemed to me that this would not be possible, since doing this kind of work in therapy results in temporary (or longer) regression, depressed moods, anxiety and other problems. And how does one concentrate on schoolwork at the same time?
On the other hand, taking things "slowly and carefully" simply leaves all the defensive walls as they are.
This is all so confusing for me and I would really like to hear what you all think.Wishing you all strength to deal with whatever difficulties you face,
Whirl.
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 15:30:58
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
If you are familiar with computer science, there is a term called context switching. Where in the computer deals with different applications by quickly switching contexts.
To a good extent, human beings are capable of it. That is what helps in dealing with different demands by different people at the same time - be a mother to someone, be a wife to someone, be a daughter to someone, be a boss to someone, be a coworker to someone, be a direct report to someone.
To a good extent, human beings are capalbe of dealing with different kinds of demands (both logical and emotional) and being in a different emotional state at the exact same time, just like a computer can run a word program, display an video game, allow you to browse etc at the same time..
I believe this inherent capacity is what helps such regreessions and healing to occur side by side, while we operate at a more functional adult level in other areas.
Posted by Tamar on May 1, 2005, at 16:20:37
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
I liked pinkeye’s description of it. That’s pretty much how it was for me. When I was at work, I was able to concentrate fully on work. The stuff I was facing in therapy stayed in the background. But driving to and from work I thought about therapy a lot.
I think the question of work/therapy balance is very important and something that should be discussed with your T if therapy takes over your life. I expect they have ways of helping us to keep the intensity at an acceptable level.
Tamar
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 1, 2005, at 16:25:54
In reply to Re: question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger) » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 15:30:58
Maybe I shouldnt answer becasue the things you mentioned are not things I deal with per se. But I have dealt with depression and recent anxiety and as a student I find it very difficult when Im depressed and have a large school load. So to answer the question how do people keep up with things etc...for me and my depression and at times the anxiety I dont always. It has resulted in dropping out of school for a time, or dropping my load of courses. The frequency of this happening isnt that often but my little 'holidays' are sometimes longer than Id like. That is why I am older than most people in my year :-). But I agree, when I read some of the things people here are going through I think it is amazing how they manage to keep up with their daily responsiblities. It sounds very difficult.
Take care
rain
Posted by daisym on May 1, 2005, at 17:04:40
In reply to Re: question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by rainbowbrite on May 1, 2005, at 16:25:54
The easiest and hardest answer is sometimes you just can't keep up or keep going. You have to let down. Or you are forced to let down.
I think pinkeye is right, humans have an amazing capacity to switch gears and convert their energy into something else. But I also think that many folks who experienced abuse, whether as a child or any other time, become very good at hiding their emotions and walling off that part when they need to. They are the greatest actors or pretenders ever. And it is so ingrained that it becomes automatic.
I think one of the critical parts in therapy is to have a way to manage melt downs so that you can contain things between sessions. My therapist is forever reminding me that sometimes this can't be helped. When you are raw and hurting, you might need to take a sick day or skip something stressful. This is part of learning to take care of yourself. But he wants me to function in-between so we've spent time talking about what works. It was trial and error and sometimes we have to add in new things and delete others.
I think that is why Babble is so important to me. It helps me contain things. And I can be as vulnerable, as weepy, as overwhelmed and as young as I am really feeling, without having to make it better for anyone else.
And that is a real gift.
Posted by sunnydays on May 1, 2005, at 18:24:39
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
I find that it is often really hard for me to switch back and forth right away, but especially for me because I'm a student and live in a dormitory, I try to surround myself with people when I'm feeling bad and they usually draw me back into "the real world". I tend to go very far inside myself when I am stressed or am scared, and this is something I have been struggling with in therapy because a lot of times I can't talk about very difficult things because I go so deep into myself that I get very quiet and can't talk.
Usually for me, though, being around people and talking about completely superficial topics helps to get me back to functioning and to "put away" the stuff I've been dealing with in therapy. I may not remember what I talked about after the conversation, but as long as it was superficial, it usually helps me get back into a more superficial mindset so I can function. I guess the short answer, for me, is, that it's very hard for me to switch back and forth, but that it happens.
Posted by cubic_me on May 1, 2005, at 18:30:04
In reply to Re: question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by daisym on May 1, 2005, at 17:04:40
One thing that I found really helpful when going through difficult things in (and outside of) therapy was to allow myself to 'melt down' every so often. I'd make myself do university work for, say, 45minutes, then give myself a break, where I could be depressed or cry or journal or whatever for 15 minutes. It was a pretty strict regime because I'd got so behind with my work that I needed to work work work to catch up. Sometimes I'd cry when I was doing my work, but I made myself do it because my career means so much to me. My friends were really good too, sometimes even giving me their work to get ideas from/copy bits of.
I know this is not the same for everyone, for some a break from college is the best thing, while others prefer the distraction. If you are a person that can compartmentalize parts of your life, then more sessions of therapy may help, where you can completely 'let go'.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 18:56:38
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
Context, yeah, context is important. But I still find it really hard to keep the balance right sometimes.
When all goes well then I have certain 'cues' that get me into work mode. Things like carrying a copy of my writing with me - a copy of that and a pen. That signals to me and to the other people around me that I am thinking about my work currently - and am in work mode. Or I have a box that I carry around when I am in tutoring mode. My office used to act as a cue, and it does to a certain extent. When I am there then I am self contained and in control. But not working necessarily, cause I babble from there too.
Most of the time things go okay.
Sometimes when things are hard for me because I am ruminating about stuff... It can be hard to switch into work mode or writing mode or self-contained mode. Usually I need a deadline then. Something that I simply HAVE to do. Most of the time that is enough - it works out for me okay.Sometimes I have a meltdown. For me that means missing time. So that I don't take a class or don't get my writing in or don't get to that seminar. That does happen occasionally. I guess that that happens when I simply can't put stuff away adequately.
But most of the time things go fairly much okay.
Posted by B2chica on May 2, 2005, at 11:31:46
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
well i think its been pretty well stated about the switching gears.
for me it helps to focus on work at work, sometimes keeping therapy 'at bay' makes things easier. Does it ever interfere?? of course, sometimes makes it quite hard to concentrate on work, but i think i'd be a lot worse off if i took a leave of absence from work.
about school, that's been more difficult. cuz i work full time my last semester of classes i had my first hospitalization (last spring) and had to take incompletes and took my time to complete them that summer. i put my final project on hold and only recently started to work on it again. For me work is a must and school...as i can. luckily i don't have 'class work'. so i can set deadlines and give way as needed for hard therapy.
And anyone who thinks therapy isn't hard work, is nuts! (hehe).it's all a balancing act.
my2c
b2c.
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 13:25:00
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
I am beginning to understand the difficulties you face and am glad that most of you have found what works for you in keeping the balance. It is so admirable how you all manage to function despite everything.
I guess there must be something strangely different about me. I have never been able to compartmentalize different parts of my life. During my school years I felt so overwhelmingly bad and wasn't really able to be aware of anything else around. Getting through each day was a struggle, and I didn't even notice that there was a world out there, that the other kids had friends, and that it wasn't normal to go through each day the way I did.
Now, even when medication is used to make things a little easier, it is just a coverup and the disturbing feelings are always there. Less overwhelming, but bothersome and inhibiting.
For some reason I have always felt that doing intensive regressive therapy would help, though what that would involve is unclear. What is clear is that there is no way I would be able to work or study during that period (not that I can't afford not to). As of now I am not doing either, and haven't been for several years. My fear is that telling my T, or any T for that matter , how I feel, will result in his mocking me and insisting that the important thing is to function in the "real world". I agree with that but have felt for many years that something really needs to be worked through which can't be done in the usual framework.
This is so embarrassing to me and for some reason it is impossible to tell anyone how I feel, or even to reply when asked frequently why I don't go back to school, for instance.
Does this all sound out of touch with reality? Maybe I am simply crazy...
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 13:29:30
In reply to Thanks a lot everyone! and more ..., posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 13:25:00
Do you have a T right now? T's in the US seem to want to help you work through your childhood issues - more so than Ts in other country. (from my limited experience). In ohter countries, the emphasis is more on operating in the real world - now, rather than going back and digging everything up from childhood. Where are you located as of now?
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 13:41:06
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 13:29:30
Hi Pinkeye,
I don't live in the States, and you are right about the emphasis in other places being different.
I was in therapy for several months with someone who seemed to be able to understand, but I couldn't talk to him about anything. After trying e-mail therapy and finding it just as impossible, I left him a message about taking an indefinite break until I can bring up what I really want to rather than making up things I feel everyone would want to hear.
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 13:49:07
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » pinkeye, posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 13:41:06
Great. You have come to the right person for help.
Ts in other countries are great as well - in their own way. But doing email therapy is very difficult. Don't do it. Find someone nearby locally, where you can go and see face to face. Email just makes things much more harder than it should be, and it leads to lots and lots of communication gaps.
The key is being able to work with your T and tell him/her what you really want to work on, and even if they insist on coping up with real life right now, keep bringing back stuff that you need to work on.
I was in a similar situation, and was doing email therapy for a long time with my T in India. It helped me upto 80 - 90 %, and corrected several several issues I had. But it was little inadequate in dealing with stuff like transference, and discussing father issues. So these two issues, I corrected only by going to a T in the US. But I realize, if I had insisted and brought up these issues to my ex T in India regularly, he would have been able to pay more attention to it.
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:03:11
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 13:49:07
Are you still going to the T in the US? Have you found that both of them would have been able to handle anything you brought up?
I did e-mail therapy with a local T, the same one I tried to go to and was too embarrassed to talk to. I haven't tried writing to someone in the States. Ironically, that might be the answer. It is so difficult to tell him what I want to work on, since I fear being totally off and that my feelings may be misguiding me.
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:08:20
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » pinkeye, posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:03:11
I live in the US. My home country is India, so that is how I knew my T in India. I did a brief face to face therapy with him, and then continued via email for a lot longer period. Now I go to a US therapist regularly (face to face - once a week).
I don't think it is legal to start doing just email therapy to someone in the US. I think they may not agree to it without some form of initial face to face sessions, and after that they will only offer some support (minimal) over email.
Why did you do email therapy with your local T? Why didn't you go face to face? Would finding someone else (maybe of the same gender/older/younger) help you? Are you a woman or a male? Sometimes if you are a woman, opening up to a male T is more difficult.
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:16:55
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:08:20
I am a female (and so is almost everyone else on this board, as you have noticed :))
I began going to this T after seeing his website and liking what he wrote there. It's true that a female T would be easier, but the funny thing is that he did understand many things without my telling him and if there is a T around that might help, it would most likely be him (I have tried others).
Don't know why I am so embarrassed to tell anyone what I really feel.
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:23:06
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ..., posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:16:55
So what are your options? I think you need face to face interaction above everything else. It is hard to feel connected to a person over the email. Email needs too much of writing capacity and being able to express what you feel explicitly, and if you are embarassed to admit things to start with, then email is not good for you. I would think you defintely need to see someone face to face. Can you try contacting the same person who you did email therapy with, to see if he would agree to see you face to face? That might be a start?
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:27:23
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:23:06
You are right, there aren't many options. I thought that sending emails would be less embarrassing than speaking face to face, but it only created other problems.
Thanks for you advice, pinkeye.
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:33:05
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » pinkeye, posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:27:23
Besides, lot of us do feel concerned about what we put in emails - even if it is to our therapists. We might hesitate lot more to put stuff down in words in a written format which could be saved, more than just saying things in a total privacy.
As a person who has done email therapy for nearly 2 years, I know how hard it is to do. Don't resort to it, if you can help any other form of therapy. Even a telephone session is 100 times better than email therapy. I had no other choice for a long time, and I liked my therapist. That is why I chose to keep doing it. But if you have any other choice, prefer that first.
Posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:41:34
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ... » whirlpool, posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:33:05
Yes, sending written matter which can be saved is a real concern, even though I sent emails without my real name in order to minimize the risks.
Do you feel your current therapy is helpful?
Posted by pinkeye on May 2, 2005, at 14:57:31
In reply to Re: Thanks a lot everyone! and more ..., posted by whirlpool on May 2, 2005, at 14:41:34
Yes it is.
Posted by pinkeye on May 4, 2005, at 22:01:45
In reply to question for psycho-babblers (possible trigger), posted by whirlpool on May 1, 2005, at 15:21:38
Anyway, I just realized that my context switching algorithm is little corrupted as well. It doesn't switch contexts as efficiently it should.
I don't seem to be able to concentrate too much on my work. Babble and this kind of healing is taking more of my interest now than my work does.
It feels guilty.. but then part of me feels that I can afford to not concentrate on work and get lousy reviews for a year.. but this is more important to me. Otherwise even if I earn tons of money, if I am not emotionally happy, what is the use?
So I think it does lead to regressions, and anxiety and more stuff out and it is hard to kind of do it both (this kind of therapy stuff) and work/school at the same time.
But many times, it probably helps to deal with stuff like this early on in your life, so when you are 70, you don't look back and say "what a waste", because when you are 70 and have run the rat race and reached the cliff, you realize that there is nothing after the cliff - that all you got is to die, and it makes you feel so bad that all along you had been running for a career and school and money and didn't stop to look at whether you are really happy doing what you are doing.
I did that for so many years now, but thankfully I stopped doing it a couple of years ago - thanks to my ex T.
This is the end of the thread.
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