![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on March 25, 2005, at 11:18:03
I have two friends, A and B, who I care about very much. An issue has come up between them, and I have been asked for advice on how B should handle this. The more I hear about it the more I am concerned for A. I am looking for advice on how B can act in a way that will be helpful to A.
A and B have been friends for more than 10 years. A is acting in a very immature manner - essentially refusing to be grown up. This has gotten to the point where B mentioned to A that B finds it difficult to spend time with A because of this immaturity. The message was delivered with love. A has stopped speaking to B.
A's family growing up had an extremely controlling father. Adult children stayed at home into their mid 20s. They were not allowed to learn to drive until 18 (16 is the age in the state). Their social lives were severely curtailed by "family plans" (i.e. "family night" when all stayed home and played board games). I recently found out from B that when A was in Middle School she started to rebel a little (mouthing off etc.). ***trigger*** The father's reaction was to threaten (in a convincing way) that he would put her into Foster care.
So, it makes a lot of sense to me that A doesn't want to be grown up. When she tried in Middle School she was threatened with complete abandonment.
I'm afraid that B's comment about the immature behavior might have triggered A. Here is a time when someone important is telling her how she has to behave. The unspoken threat was that if A continued being immature that B would stop spending time with her (sounds like abandonment to me...). Now A is in a position where she can either obey her father (stay young), or keep her friend (grow up).
A's immaturity is pervasive enough that it is not something that B can tolerate, except in very small doses. B cares immensely for A, and wants the friendship to continue. How can she encourage A to change without retraumatizing her? How can B meet her own needs (i.e. spending time with mature people) without threatening abandonment of A?
This gets back to acceptance vs. change (which is probably why it is upsetting *me* so much).
Posted by Shortelise on March 25, 2005, at 15:47:15
In reply to Encouraging change - abandonment trigger, posted by fallsfall on March 25, 2005, at 11:18:03
Posted by fallsfall on March 25, 2005, at 17:06:31
In reply to how old are they now? (nm) » fallsfall, posted by Shortelise on March 25, 2005, at 15:47:15
I don't want to put too many details on the board... I sent you Babblemail.
I think the overriding question is how do two friends balance their needs? One wants to be immature, the other wants to have mature friends. Is there a way to have this conversation without it becoming an ultimatum?
Posted by Shortelise on March 26, 2005, at 0:11:42
In reply to Re: how old are they now? » Shortelise, posted by fallsfall on March 25, 2005, at 17:06:31
Hmmm....
Throughout my life so far I have found that changes between friends can either cause a friendship to evolve, or to end. At the moment, anyone who isn't interested in talking a lot about gardening, cats, food, mental health, or films is not going to find me a very interesting playmate.
On the other hand, there are certain people I see only when I am in the mood for their particular sort of being. I can only take the bad news bear - aka Eeyore - once every month or two for as long as it takes to eat a leisurely lunch; the vain lovely is fun a few times a month for half an afternoon, but no longer.
Maybe I would also invite this immature to do something like join a book club with me, or a science club, or maybe the philosophy club - I'm exagerating a little but you see what I mean - suggest some things they can do together where silliness is just not possible.
Otherwise I think I would limit my time with the friend who wants to be silly. I'd say, I can't go to your house today because I'm going to do whatever, but do you think you could come over to my house tomorrow and blah blah. Making it about activities, not people.
What seems important to me is that it not feel like a power struggle. The one who is needing to make other friends must do her very best not to let the other feel rejected and powerless. Telling her she is acting like a child probably wouldn't work, but giving her lots of attention when she acts her age, so to speak, might work.
Could it be that it's just like with litttle children - reward good behavior and try to ignore the bad behavior? Maybe that's the secret to life?
Your friend sounds like a good, caring person. Keep me posted!
ShortE
Posted by fallsfall on March 26, 2005, at 8:39:22
In reply to Re: how old are they now? » fallsfall, posted by Shortelise on March 26, 2005, at 0:11:42
Thanks, Shortelise.
Your response, as well as a couple of friends I talked to, says a couple of things to me.
1. B is not responsible for "fixing" A's upbringing. B is not A's therapist, she is her friend (I get these mixed up a lot myself).
2. Friendships wax and wane. Friends change and friendships may end as a result. That is part of the nature of friendships (i.e. they have no mandate to continue the way that relatives "have" to remain related).
3. B has every right to have requirements for other's behavior who she will be friends with. And A has the right to refuse to meet those requirements.
4. B can love A, but not want to spend large amounts of time with her.
5. This "falling out" doesn't mean that they can NEVER spend time together. (I am such a black and white person... sigh)
6. B can by sympathetic to A's plight without accepting A's immature behavior. I.E. she can like A as a person but dislike A's behavior (this is another one that is hard for me - when I was growing up, behavior *was* the person).
7. It is not my job to "save" either one of them, nor to save their friendship.
8. The world will not end if they stop being friends.
That said, I think my role is to help B to understand why A might be acting the way she is, and encourage B to reach out in loving ways within her boundaries. I need to see that this is part of the process of relationships. I can help B to know that her requests and boundaries are reasonable.
This is one of those situations that pushes all of my buttons. Thanks for helping me think it through.
Posted by Dinah on March 26, 2005, at 10:11:13
In reply to Re: how old are they now? » Shortelise, posted by fallsfall on March 26, 2005, at 8:39:22
You just said to yourself all the things I wanted to say to you, but couldn't assemble in my mind. :)
It's hard not to try to fix things, isn't it?
Posted by Shortelise on March 26, 2005, at 12:27:10
In reply to Re: how old are they now? » Shortelise, posted by fallsfall on March 26, 2005, at 8:39:22
I'm glad you were able to figure this out!ShortE
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.