![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 44. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 13:34:04
This weeks session was very different. I wasn't going to go and then decided I needed to work on deciding what I was going to do. My T told me he thinks I am stuck and that I have taken a step back (Duhhh...not calling back makes me question trust) and I agreed. I said maybe I have done all I can do with him...he said he doesn't think so. He has no clue even though I tried to explain that I don't trust that we are a team as he puts it when I can't depend on him. The csa is tortursum enough without having to wonder if he is really there for me or just analyzing me. I know myself enough to know, that him just observing me though this isn't enough...I have to feel like he cares about me not just the process of therapy. He asked me if I feel like I have an person there for me in this stuff and I said no...before I always refered to him as the teamate he said we would be but I don't feel that way anymore so I was honest. He didn't suggest that he was there for me or even that he is on my side. I know it's either there or it's not but I wonder if I am stuck and maybe I'm making a bigger deal about this than needs to be.
Posted by Daisym on February 26, 2005, at 14:09:27
In reply to Session - Stuck?, posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 13:34:04
There are a couple of possibilities, I'm sure you've thought about them.
Without feeling cared for and completely accepted, retelling old stories can be retraumatizing. You need to trust that he will stop you when it gets too awful, that you can call if you can't contain your feelings and that he cares about you and won't hurt you like you were hurt before.
But...you can be using this (not on purpose of course) to avoid going into the stories and your feelings about csa. I know I do this. I have a good friend who is a retired therapist and her favorite line with me is "and how much time did that take away from the REAL issue?" I have a pattern of testing him -- then telling him something awful -- and testing him again.
The other possibility is that there is a part of you that knows that by bringing out this painful stuff, therapy is going to get so very hard. And you are going to want to run from therapy and your therapist ('cause he is the source of the pain, our twisted selves say) and you need to trust that he cares enough about you to not let you run from him. I've said to my therapist, "There are times I want to quit, to cancel, or to talk about the weather. Please don't let me do that." He always says he won't, and he hasn't. When I've tried, he will remind me, "you've asked me to not let you back off. I think you should keep coming, etc." I know it is ultimately my choice. But I also know I have that in place when I can't do it for myself.
I've been meaning to ask this for awhile...how much experience does your therapist have working with trauma clients? We can be so hard! :(
Hang in there. I know this is really hard. I feel for you.
Posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 14:25:33
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » Speaker, posted by Daisym on February 26, 2005, at 14:09:27
Daisy,
Your right I have thought of much of that and know I do the avoidence game at the beginning of each session. However, I think of how much I'm paying and try not to waste time.
My T is suppose to be the expert with PTSD in our area. I do think he is great at knowing the process just not good at picking up on me. I know I'm different since I have had many trauma's and been very successful at dealing with them...you know the strong one like you :). I think I trump him at times and that's ok if I really feel like he is there for me. I can't tell if this is ALL me or there is some valid reasoning here.
I did read one of your posts today that was such a good reminder for me. "Our feelings are our feelings...and logic doesn't change them" I shouldn't have put that in quotes as its not exact but it really helped me. I have set aside my feelings to get through so much that now that they are present I still try to use the logic and get VERY mad at myself when my head knows it and my heart does what it wants. Well, I'm getting off my soapbox for now. Let me know if you have any other thoughts. Thanks!
Marie
Posted by pinkeye on February 28, 2005, at 15:37:15
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » Daisym, posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 14:25:33
Could you change to a more caring therapist who would be more willing to show you with his/her words that they care about you?
Your therapist does seem to lack empathy and I am wondering if that would do you any good, even if he is the expert on that subject.
My current therapist is little like that, she doesn't show too much empathy or kindness.. But I don't need it now, so I am ok with her and she has other strenghts. I wouldn't have been ok with that approach two years back when I was not so strong. I needed someone more caring and empathetic and affectionate and needed to know I could trust. IF your therapist is not providing that for you when you need it, then go and find someone else who would.
Posted by Speaker on February 28, 2005, at 16:54:44
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » Speaker, posted by pinkeye on February 28, 2005, at 15:37:15
I think he does try in his own way but it seems very difficult for him. I have been wondering what to do? I have just invested so much with this new guy I hate to start over. My first T was very caring but moved after 6 yrs. I have been with this guy a year...it is hard to know what to do. Thanks for you input I will think about it.
Posted by pinkeye on February 28, 2005, at 16:59:13
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck?, posted by Speaker on February 28, 2005, at 16:54:44
Ohter option is to try your best to outreach to this guy.. Tell him what you feel in a polite way, and maybe even give him suggestions on what he could do to make you feel better.
If you have invested a lot of effort already with this person and you think he is honestly trying his best, maybe if you give him tips on how to work with you better, he might be receptive and change.
IT is like a teamwork.. when one person fails a little bit, if the other person picks up the slack, then the outcome is not affected. It doesn't matter who does more.
Posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 12:08:44
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » Speaker, posted by pinkeye on February 28, 2005, at 16:59:13
Pinkeye,
That is a very good suggestion. I always feel if I have to tell someone its like "asking your husband for flowers and then getting them" it's just not the same. However, in this case it may be what I need to do. I'll try to adjust my thinking. Thanks!
Marie
Posted by pinkeye on March 1, 2005, at 13:15:46
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » pinkeye, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 12:08:44
It is perhaps not the same to ask and get it - but I would rather ask and get it than sit in silence and do nothing about it and get frustrated.
> Pinkeye,
>
> That is a very good suggestion. I always feel if I have to tell someone its like "asking your husband for flowers and then getting them" it's just not the same. However, in this case it may be what I need to do. I'll try to adjust my thinking. Thanks!
>
> Marie
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 14:44:20
In reply to Session - Stuck?, posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 13:34:04
> This weeks session was very different. I wasn't going to go and then decided I needed to work on deciding what I was going to do. My T told me he thinks I am stuck and that I have taken a step back (Duhhh...not calling back makes me question trust) and I agreed. I said maybe I have done all I can do with him...he said he doesn't think so. He has no clue even though I tried to explain that I don't trust that we are a team as he puts it when I can't depend on him. The csa is tortursum enough without having to wonder if he is really there for me or just analyzing me.
That was I think why I started phoning my last therapist between sessions and when he wasn't there I was leaving all kinds of emotional thinking behind on the machine. I was wanting to build the trust. You're really strong for not doing that, not even considering it. I just want to stand up and cheer for you, Speaker - you know exactly what your feelings are, and you're communicating with your T even though you haven't fully trusted him yet. Yay. I think, from my personal therapy experiences anyway, that you're right on target in needing to make this a big deal AND in being able to tell your T how you feel.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 14:47:58
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » Speaker, posted by Daisym on February 26, 2005, at 14:09:27
Wow. You leave me in awe, absolutely. Together you and your T are an incredible team.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 15:04:05
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck? » pinkeye, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 12:08:44
I agree with everything Pinkeye said, speak up and let your needs be known and hopefully if he's a good enough person he'll be honest about whether he can meet your needs or not. Or even if he can try, that would be good. Only by him being available to meeting your needs for you initially will you learn to be able to meet them for yourself eventually. IMO, from what I read and interpret anyway. You may end up not needing him the way you think you do now, if he lets you know he's available. But you wondering is not good.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 1, 2005, at 15:18:09
In reply to Session - Stuck?, posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 13:34:04
I'm going to be very blunt, and you are free to shoot holes in my post or at me because I admit up front that I am responding through the filter of my own experience.
That said . . .
My T has a working diagnosis with me of complex PTSD, repeated traumas like you have had. It is not the same as PTSD; it's very different and complicated (hence the word "complex"!) An expert in PTSD is not an expert in complex PTSD.
I could not work with a T who lacked the empathy in the way you have described your T. The fact that he did not respond effectively at the death in your family is a huge red flag to me. Events like that trigger so much in a trauma client.
The healing for me comes from the relationship I have with him. I *know* and I *feel* his care and concern and his position as my ally. It took awhile to trust and depend on it, but I never questioned it. I just had to work on being able to receive it. But if I ever doubted his fully being "in it" with me and being there when things start to unravel whether that is in session or 3 a.m., I could never do this work. I could never heal. More than his expertise or degrees, it is the fact that he is there for me that allows me to reexperience all this in a way that is different from the first time around. If I felt unsure of this or was insecure about his concern, it would be retraumatizing.
Again, this is my take and what I need. I need a consistent, loving presence to speak and heal and I can barely do it then. Do you think your T can bridge that distance, and be close and connected enough for you to feel safe in this work?
Posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
In reply to Re: Session - Stuck?, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 15:04:05
I went for therapy today and told my T about an event that I have tomorrow that causes great anxiety. He quickly said why don't you give me a call when you are done...(shock, awe, disbelief) and I hadn't said a word. I believe my prayers were answered! However, I will try to bring this up and let him know how I have been feeling so it doesn't continue.
Thanks,
Marie
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 18:21:56
In reply to One step forward, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
That sounds wonderful. Good for him.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 1, 2005, at 18:25:42
In reply to One step forward, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
That's more like it! I'll be interested to know how he responds. (And good luck with whatever is stressing you.)
Posted by Shortelise on March 1, 2005, at 18:29:46
In reply to One step forward, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
So he is hearing you, is he?
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 19:59:59
In reply to One step forward, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
Hey! Maybe's he's trainable after all!
Good luck with him. I think those fixer uppers have a special charm.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 22:29:30
In reply to Re: One step forward, posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 19:59:59
Glad things are going a bit better. Take care of yourself. And do call if you need him.
gg
Posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 0:51:17
In reply to One step forward, posted by Speaker on March 1, 2005, at 18:01:33
I'm glad to hear it! I hope whatever it is, it isn't too stressful.
Hey...maybe he reads Babble?!
Posted by Speaker on March 2, 2005, at 9:04:23
In reply to Re: One step forward, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 0:51:17
Now that's a STRESSFUL thought...but it did enter my mind :).!!!
Marie
Posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
In reply to Re: One step forward » daisym, posted by Speaker on March 2, 2005, at 9:04:23
Is there anyone among us who HASN"T wondered if his/her T reads us here?
I figure mine wouldn't have the time - he's a busy guy.
:-)
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 13:42:48
In reply to peeping T's, posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
the title was so very funny :-) I think mine wouldn't - just for the same reason I try not to go to discussion boards related to my work. Already I spend 8 hours with my work, so why spend more time with the same thing, I like going to other kind of discussion boards because it takes my mind away from my regular work. I know my ex T used to go to discussion boards completely unrelated to psychiatry/therapy - I think he wanted a change.
Posted by annierose on March 2, 2005, at 18:09:34
In reply to Re: peeping T's » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 13:42:48
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a similar psych board for therapists to ask questions about their clients? and for mutual support? Sure would be interesting to read what they say about us? ... although scary too ... especially if we see ourselves.
Posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 19:49:29
In reply to peeping T's, posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
I suspect many don't have the time; most, actually, I'll bet. I think if a therapist wants to be effective, though, and he knows his client is on something like this, he or she would be curious anyway. But finding the time and energy to go beyond curious is a huge stretch, really.
Posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 21:07:05
In reply to Re: peeping T's, posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 19:49:29
Are you guys kidding?!!!
I have three kids, a sick husband, a fulltime job running a business, I consult, teach and train on the side, travel for my job and go to therapy 3 or 4 times per week. I'm on two state level advocacy comittees and three local ones. And I have time to be here.
And yes, my house is reasonably clean, I grocery shop and do laundry each week, cook dinner every night (almost) and bake typically once per week.
And yes, I do sleep. Some.
So...I doubt "too busy" would be a reason to not visit.
Sorry, the too busy made me giggle.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.