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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
I'm such a fool. I can't do this any more. It's such BS, all of it, the "relationship," the "work," none of it means anything and it all hurts too much. I'm not cut out for this. I quit. :-(
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 11:26:40
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
I can understand wanting to grab some control over the course your therapy is going to take, given that you'll be forced to terminate relatively soon. And maybe it will feel like you're short circuiting some of the pain.
Heck, I've told my therapist that as soon as he tells me we're terminating, however far in the future, whenever he sets the date, therapy is over and I'm walking out and there will be no termination phase because he's already quit being my therapist.
So I understand completely.
On the other hand, I don't think my stance is necessarily the one I'd advise anyone else to take.
Are you sure this is something that you really want to do?
Posted by Aphrodite on February 18, 2005, at 16:12:14
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
Did you just return from a session? I often have these same sentiments the moment I walk out the door and I have all kinds of negative kickbacks.
Have you had a discussion about the gift yet? Did that go awry?
I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I've quit a handful of times in moments of feeling like I couldn't take it anymore. I know how you feel. When I did quit, the isolation of doing so was so much worse than the pain of the moment.
Hang in there. Keep posting.
Posted by lonelygal2 on February 18, 2005, at 17:04:13
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
awww sv. :(
i'm sorry it's so hard. many of us can really relate. but i know that doesn't make it any easier.
your t cares about you so much and i do think it's real. and i think you've made a lot of progress just by letting her in.
therapy can never really be easy b/c then it wouldn't be therapy.
i know it's so hard to have someone care about you.. and that it can make you feel all funny and do weird things.
i dunno what else to say (especially since not sure what happened today), but i care and hope you are feeling okay.> I'm such a fool. I can't do this any more. It's such BS, all of it, the "relationship," the "work," none of it means anything and it all hurts too much. I'm not cut out for this. I quit. :-(
>
>
Posted by littleone on February 18, 2005, at 18:38:24
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
> I'm such a fool. I can't do this any more. It's such BS, all of it, the "relationship," the "work," none of it means anything and it all hurts too much. I'm not cut out for this. I quit. :-(
Wow, I could have just written this. I have no hope about me or therapy or whatever. I really want to throw in the towel.
I guess I'm feeling torn because now I have more insight into how screwed up I am. How screwed up my life is. But I'm in a limbo area. I can see all this stuff that is wrong, but I can't see how to fix it or even how to tolerate it. I can't see how to dump therapy and yet continue to live my screwed up life in my screwed up self.
Is that a problem for you too? I'm not exactly sure why you're in therapy to start with. If your life could continue quite happily without therapy.
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment. I take it that if you're graduating soon that you have a heap of exams or assignments or whatever coming up? It must be a terrible time for you to change T's or dump therapy or anything at the moment.
Sending you warm thoughts.
Posted by Susan47 on February 19, 2005, at 1:48:14
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
Posted by rainbowbrite on February 19, 2005, at 11:02:22
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
awww...Im sorry
I just posted about this, so I guess I sort of can relate. It is such an awful feeling to feel this way. I really sympathize with you. I hate therapy!((shrinking violet))
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:43:32
In reply to Re: I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy » shrinking violet, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 11:26:40
>> I can understand wanting to grab some control over the course your therapy is going to take, given that you'll be forced to terminate relatively soon. And maybe it will feel like you're short circuiting some of the pain.
Hi Dinah,
Thank you. Perhaps...but something happened during that session yesterday which shook what little therepeutic foundation my T and I had to work with. I keep thinking about the session (I'll post more detail in this thread at some point) and it's possible I'm unsconsciously looking for excuses to terminate early, so it's *my* choice and in *my* control to do so *on my terms,* but the other part of me isn't so sure.....I do think I have valid reasonings, but who knows....it might be interesting to hear what others have to say about it.>> Are you sure this is something that you really want to do?
--As of right now, I think so yes. I'm not sure if "want" plays a role right now, I think it's something that needs to be done. I don't think my T and I can work together anymore after what happened and how I feel right now.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:46:57
In reply to Re: I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy » shrinking violet, posted by Aphrodite on February 18, 2005, at 16:12:14
>> Did you just return from a session? I often have these same sentiments the moment I walk out the door and I have all kinds of negative kickbacks.
--Am I that transparent? :-) Yes, I did just return from session yesterday when I posted this, and I do very often have the sort of knee-jerk reaction that you describe (and sometimes there is fallout from those kinds of reactions), but I think this time, it's all irreversible.
>> Have you had a discussion about the gift yet? Did that go awry?
--Sort of, but it was a lot more than that. I'll post about it in an updated response to this thread, since I would like to have some feedback on it, if anyone has any thoughts.
>> I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I've quit a handful of times in moments of feeling like I couldn't take it anymore. I know how you feel. When I did quit, the isolation of doing so was so much worse than the pain of the moment.--Thank you. I've had many of those feelings too, and I have quit many times before and always gone back. But I think it's different this time. I think things have been ruined, trust breached, boundaries crossed and confused....and let's face it, I'm not great at therapy anyway! ;-)
Thank you.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:49:19
In reply to Re: I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by lonelygal2 on February 18, 2005, at 17:04:13
>> your t cares about you so much and i do think it's real.
--No, I don't think it is....My suspicion has pretty much been confirmed, at least that's how I heard it. I tried to believe her, and everyone, that our relationship is different, that she cares, etc. But, I've been duped. She's a swell actress.
>>and i think you've made a lot of progress just by letting her in.--I'm a fool, that's all.
Thank you LG, you've been a great friend. I'm sorry I left on our chat earlier today....I just got too upset to keep talking. Hang in there.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:57:52
In reply to Re: I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy » shrinking violet, posted by littleone on February 18, 2005, at 18:38:24
>> I guess I'm feeling torn because now I have more insight into how screwed up I am. How screwed up my life is. But I'm in a limbo area. I can see all this stuff that is wrong, but I can't see how to fix it or even how to tolerate it. I can't see how to dump therapy and yet continue to live my screwed up life in my screwed up self.
--My T (well, probably ex-T now) used to tell me that I can't ever go back to the way things were....that we managed to bring out a little into the open, and I can't go back and hide them again, that at least we did that much. I'm not so sure....I think I could easily bury everything again and go back into neverland. In fact, I'm almost hoping for it. But it sounds like that's where you are, that you made some progress and you're in that painful middle place where you can't go backward but aren't sure how to go forward. I think this is where your T will be the most useful. I'm not even sure I obtained any great insights or knowledge into myself through my T. I analyze things to death anyway, and I'm fairly insightful and "deep" on my own, so I don't even really feel like I need my T for any of those things. I hope you can find a way to allow your T to help you transform yourself into someone you can be comfortable with.
>> Is that a problem for you too? I'm not exactly sure why you're in therapy to start with. If your life could continue quite happily without therapy.
--I went in for mainly anxiety, depression, and an eating disorder (and ok, some unresolved traumas that my T has tried to pull out into the open, none of which I really want to look at or give much credence to). And I'm still anxious, depressed, and my ED has gotten worse over the past 17 months I've been seeing her (not as worse as it's ever been over the 10 years I've had it, but I've declined from where I was since starting with her).
>> I'm sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment. I take it that if you're graduating soon that you have a heap of exams or assignments or whatever coming up? It must be a terrible time for you to change T's or dump therapy or anything at the moment.
--Aw, thank you. Actually, no, I've always been able to manage school well, regardless of how other things in my life are going. I only have 2 courses this semester (well, graduate level, but still both are very manageable), then I take one more in the summer and I take my comp exam then, so it's somewhat spread out. I just think T makes everything worse, and I end up focusing on *it* rather than on my assignments, sometimes. I just don't see the point.
Thank you for your thoughts.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:58:17
In reply to (((Shrinkingviolet))) (nm) » shrinking violet, posted by Susan47 on February 19, 2005, at 1:48:14
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 19:58:51
In reply to Re: I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy » shrinking violet, posted by rainbowbrite on February 19, 2005, at 11:02:22
> awww...Im sorry
> I just posted about this, so I guess I sort of can relate. It is such an awful feeling to feel this way. I really sympathize with you. I hate therapy!--Aw, thank you ((((Rainbow)))) I'm sorry you can relate! Hang in there!
Posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 20:12:41
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
Hi everyone,
I thought I'd post what actually happened to prompt my "ending therapy" post, and hopefully get some feedback as to whether I'm overreacting, etc.
Forgive me if this post is a bit scattered....I'm still emotional over it (and somewhat stunned) and it's difficult to put into words.
I brought in my photo album to share with my T on Friday. I think partly I wanted to try to make up for rejecting the flower she bought me, and I thought sharing my photos with her was a nice and personal thing to do. During that, it was fine: I was kneeling next to her and we were talking about the pictures, it was kind of sweet. As soon as we were finished and went back into "therapy" mode, I closed off. I sat on the chair and hugged the pillow and didn't look at her. She of course kept talking and said some things which essentially amounted to her finally admitting our relationship is BS (that's what I heard, anyway, and that is essentially what she said...the words "transference" and "counter-transference" were used by her and she's never used them before, and how our "relationship" allowed us to bring the eating disorder out in the open, and how I have attachment issues, blah blah). She also revealed something very personal about herself which, even though I suspected, I feel weird actually knowing, and it's throwing me all off. For privacy reasons I won't say what the thing is (I doubt she reads this board or anyone knows her, but one never knows for sure). So what she told me triggered some feelings of jealousy and insecurity (rather immature and silly, though, I know, and I AM happy for her regardless). I also feel like she dropped a bomb on me telling me about this thing NOW, after all of this time with her. It confused me and made me feel badly.
And to top it all off she got a new bookcase, but it has to be moved to where her current one is, so in the meantime it's against the wall where the picture I painted her for Christmas is hung, and it's blocking half the picture. Which is dumb, I know it's temporary, but it just feels symbolic and it made me feel kind of bad. I dont know why, it's ridiculous, I know, but I can't help it.
So at the end of session, she off-handedly asked if she would see me next week. I said no. She was surprised, expecting me to say yes, so then she asked me what just happened, what did she say, and she wouldn't let me leave. I said "nothing" and didn't want to get into it all. Then she made a huge deal like she would have to go to the team and inform them of my decision to not go to my appointment, blah blah. So I said yeah ok, fine, Fully intending to just cancel with her later on. I wouldn't let her come over and hug me. I walked out, and I forced myself to go to work on-campus. Then from work (about a half hour after I left her office) I emailed her and asked if she could ask the team if they would allow me to reduce my sessions with her (the less the better, like once a month instead of once a week, or something), and how I need to cancel our session for next Friday, and for her to let me know next week when she found out.
I just feel like I can't do therapy anymore with her, there's no foundation there. It has become too personal, much too personal, and I think that's why I can't open up to her. At least partly. And she hasn't helped me at all, in fact everything just gets worse. I don't think she has the skills to deal with a client like me. And what little I do manage to tell her I feel she always tends to discount it, or call it riduculous, or how I need to be "Zen-like" and not let it bother me. And I feel like all of the "caring," the hugs, the flower, the emails, it was all a ruse to get me to trust her and form an attachment so I could talk to her. That's all it was, none of it was real. That's the essential message I received from session, anyway.
And no, I can't tell her any of this, it wouldn't be worth it anyway. She'd just say I was being stupid or something, and she'd get defensive and I'd feel worse.
I think everyone was right....she messed this up with me, she was too involved, or too inexperienced, or whatever you want to say. I should have ended with her so long ago...
I'm so angry, and I feel so very manipulated and hurt. :-(
So, yeah, that's the latest in my drama.
Posted by Dinah on February 19, 2005, at 20:17:46
In reply to the session that prompted this post...details, posted by shrinking violet on February 19, 2005, at 20:12:41
I'm afraid I don't really understand what happened. What about that made you feel like your relationship wasn't real? Or was it too real? I'm a bit confused.
Posted by lonelygal2 on February 19, 2005, at 21:20:21
In reply to Re: the session that prompted this post...details » shrinking violet, posted by Dinah on February 19, 2005, at 20:17:46
i'm also a bit confused... you didn't like her using the terms 'transference' and 'counter-transference' in terms of you guys' relationship? that using those terms makes it fake and psycho-babble? is that it?
i'm also sorry about our conversation earlier... you said you didnt' want to talk about it, but then you were talking about it some, so i asked questions, but i guess i shouldn't have. i'm sorry all of this is so hard for you right now. hang in there. we're here for you.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 20, 2005, at 6:48:02
In reply to Re: the session that prompted this post...details, posted by lonelygal2 on February 19, 2005, at 21:20:21
((((SV))))
That sounds like a rough session. I'm sorry it's so difficult right now. And I know how much you care about your T. And that the relationship will have to end when you are done with school. All that is really really hard.
I'm not sure exactly what was said in your session, but I wanted to talk for a minute about transference and counter-transference in hopes of offering some comfort to you. Those terms can be really loaded emotionally. But they really are just psychological terms to describe the feelings that go on between the client and the T. The term is used to describe how those real feelings impact the therapy process.
Transference is about the wishes, feelings, hopes, fantasies, and beliefs the client has about the T. Now really, we have these about everyone in some way. And they are real wishes, feelings, hopes, fantasies, and beliefs. It's called transference because within the therapy relationship, the client "transfers" these feelings to the T rather than someone IRL. This does not make it any less real.
Counter-transference is somewhat the same. It's the feelings and such transferred from the T onto the client. It is no less real, but it can be problematic when it distorts the T's thinking about the client or understanding of the client.
Perhaps your T was talking about your relationship in those terms in order to highlight how your relationship has impacted your own therapy process. Studies have shown that the strength of the therapy relationship is the biggest predictor of outcome in therapy.
It's also quite possible that because you two are moving towards an eventual termination, she is using those terms to try to ease you towards being able to end the relationship? That is just speculation on my part, though.
At any rate, I can hear how incredibly painful this was for you. I hope you can find a way to tell her, whether it's in continuing therapy or during a termination session.
Please take care of yourself, sweets.
gg
Posted by shrinking violet on February 22, 2005, at 16:46:01
In reply to Re: the session that prompted this post...details, posted by lonelygal2 on February 19, 2005, at 21:20:21
I'm sorry I confused you both....I'm very confused myself.
I often have reactions to things and I'm not quite sure *why* I react that way. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. Now I have to figure out what to do in regards to my T.....
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I'm rather embarrassed.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 22, 2005, at 16:48:46
In reply to Re: the session that prompted this post...details, posted by gardenergirl on February 20, 2005, at 6:48:02
((((GG))))
Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it. I know what the terms mean and I know that they are a part of therapy and it doesn't lessen any feeling, but I feel it does invalidate a lot of the connection between a client and T as TWO PEOPLE, as if to say that there *can't* be a random special connection between the two people in the room just because one of them is a therapist, do you know what I mean? (no, huh? lol). I guess I'm too sensitive as well. And I'm sure the looming termination is triggering a lot of uneasy feelings.
Thanks again for your expertise.
SV> ((((SV))))
>
> That sounds like a rough session. I'm sorry it's so difficult right now. And I know how much you care about your T. And that the relationship will have to end when you are done with school. All that is really really hard.
>
> I'm not sure exactly what was said in your session, but I wanted to talk for a minute about transference and counter-transference in hopes of offering some comfort to you. Those terms can be really loaded emotionally. But they really are just psychological terms to describe the feelings that go on between the client and the T. The term is used to describe how those real feelings impact the therapy process.
>
> Transference is about the wishes, feelings, hopes, fantasies, and beliefs the client has about the T. Now really, we have these about everyone in some way. And they are real wishes, feelings, hopes, fantasies, and beliefs. It's called transference because within the therapy relationship, the client "transfers" these feelings to the T rather than someone IRL. This does not make it any less real.
>
> Counter-transference is somewhat the same. It's the feelings and such transferred from the T onto the client. It is no less real, but it can be problematic when it distorts the T's thinking about the client or understanding of the client.
>
> Perhaps your T was talking about your relationship in those terms in order to highlight how your relationship has impacted your own therapy process. Studies have shown that the strength of the therapy relationship is the biggest predictor of outcome in therapy.
>
> It's also quite possible that because you two are moving towards an eventual termination, she is using those terms to try to ease you towards being able to end the relationship? That is just speculation on my part, though.
>
> At any rate, I can hear how incredibly painful this was for you. I hope you can find a way to tell her, whether it's in continuing therapy or during a termination session.
>
> Please take care of yourself, sweets.
>
> gg
Posted by shrinking violet on February 22, 2005, at 16:56:50
In reply to I can't take anymore, I'm done with therapy, posted by shrinking violet on February 18, 2005, at 11:12:11
I'm sorry I keep beating this thread to death. I'm just at a loss as to what to do, and why I'm reacting this way.
I know last session wasn't that horrible.....there wasn't anything about it that should have caused the reaction it did. And if I had/have any question about my T's feelings for me and vice versa, I could just ask her. She knows full well already that I don't fully believe she "cares" for me, etc, so it wouldn't be anything new.
She emailed me today and said I have to see her "no less than every two weeks" starting next week. So, I managed to get less time with her if I want it (instead of weekly, as before), but I'm not sure what to do. Part of me wants to leave it the way it is, and just go there next week because I have to, and sit there and glare at her and drive her nuts wondering what the heck is going on. Or, I could *gulp* email her back and tell her the truth....tell her I'm not sure what happened last session or why these feelings got triggered and maybe it's best if I see her this week and try to air it out in some way since it'll drive me nuts sitting with it for yet another week -- Although then I'd have to then write to her and try to explain my feelings, and send it to her ahead of time....and what would I say? That it's all BS, all of it, that her telling me now of her boyfriend after knowing her for two years is throwing me into a tizzy, that I don't feel like I can open up to her as a T at all, that any little foundation we had as a client/T has been shattered....and that I'm not even sure why?
Maybe it would be easier on both of us to just glare at each other for the rest of the semester......
I don't know what to do. I'm so tired of this.....
Help? :-(
SV
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2005, at 18:40:35
In reply to so do I talk to my T, or let her wonder??, posted by shrinking violet on February 22, 2005, at 16:56:50
Talk to her.
I've had a million responses to my therapist that I don't understand, and he doesn't either I think. But talking about them helps us keep the relationship working.
Posted by rainbowbrite on February 23, 2005, at 1:55:27
In reply to so do I talk to my T, or let her wonder??, posted by shrinking violet on February 22, 2005, at 16:56:50
I can really relate with what you are saying. I am struggling with exactly the same thing lol. you sound like you have a very close relationship with your T and that is something I would try to hang on to. Im not sure what your relationship was like before this session but if it was strong...id keep it.
I have never had those terms brought up before but I hate all that pscho babble cr*p so I hear you!! I understand what you are saying about the realtionship and taking away from it by using those words BUT i bet she was trained to see her therapy realtionships in that way and trained to avoid connections that were too close with patients and explain the close ones away with Transerefence bla bla bla.
>I could *gulp* email her back and tell her the truth....tell her I'm not sure what happened last session or why these feelings got triggered and maybe it's best if I see her this week and try to air it out in some way since it'll drive me nuts sitting with it for yet another week -- Although then I'd have to then write to her and try to explain my feelings, and send it to her ahead of time....and what would I say? That it's all BS, all of it, that her telling me now of her boyfriend after knowing her for two years is throwing me into a tizzy, that I don't feel like I can open up to her as a T at all, that any little foundation we had as a client/T has been shattered....and that I'm not even sure why?
Umm I think emailling her is a great idea! I would just be honest with your feelings and explain that you are confused that you even have the feelings you have.
OR
>Maybe it would be easier on both of us to just glare at each other for the rest of the semester......
You could do that! But I vote for the former
Good luck with it, Ill be thinking about you
rain
Posted by lonelygal2 on February 23, 2005, at 18:36:10
In reply to Re: so do I talk to my T, or let her wonder?? » shrinking violet, posted by rainbowbrite on February 23, 2005, at 1:55:27
Posted by annierose on February 23, 2005, at 21:14:40
In reply to Re: so do I talk to my T, or let her wonder?? » shrinking violet, posted by rainbowbrite on February 23, 2005, at 1:55:27
When you write "or make her wonder?" ... and similar thoughts ... a part of you sounds like it wants to punish your T for caring about you, or wants her to beg to see you. I'm not trying to be mean, just a gut reaction to reading this thread all at once. I think you do want to see her again. You do care for her. And she has told you that she does care for you. Now you need to tell her that you left her office very confused and angry. The more you can put words to these feelings, the better you will feel, however difficult it is .... and it is hard ... I'm not implying that I haven't struggled in my own therapy. Good Luck and I hope you do see her next week.
Posted by shrinking violet on February 26, 2005, at 12:14:19
In reply to sv, how are you doing? (nm), posted by lonelygal2 on February 23, 2005, at 18:36:10
You're sweet to ask LG, thank you.
I'm ok I guess. Less angry than I was last week, but it still returns at times whenever I think about it. I think I'm more hurt and dejected (and confused) than anything else right now. I don't know what to believe, or what to do. I see my T again Friday. I did end up emailing her back and tried to tell her how confused and hurt I was, but it didn't go over well; she sent back a very curt note saying that I need to discuss it in session (and she bolded and italicized those two words) and she'd see me Friday. So the knife was twisted and I bled again.
I don't know if I can do this anymore. I have no idea what's going to happen on Friday. I just don't know....
Thanks for asking. :-)
SV
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