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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
My T uses wording that keeps him very distant for me. I know its my problem but I don't know if I should bring it up or should I just try to work through my feelings? He will say "I'm willing if you want to check in on Wednesday's" or I hope you know "I'm willing to call you back if you leave a message on my machine". I know I should be able to move past this but I struggle to feel like he is sincere. My first husband was terminally ill for several years and my daughter was chritically injured and had a year in the hospital. I could tell the people that truely wanted to help and they weren't the people that said: "Call me if you need me" and "I'm willing to help if you tell me what to do". I was so tired I couldn't think let alone think of things for other people to do. They were "willing" but the people that were sincere were the ones that mowed the lawn when they saw it was long or the woman that said I'm not very good at talking but I will be by on Sunday to get your laundry and will be returning it on Wednesdays. They weren't just willing they were doing! Is this just my problem or should I believe my heart and know he is just doing his job???
Posted by thewrite1 on February 1, 2005, at 22:51:23
In reply to T's wording keeps distance, posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
I'm channeling my own T on this, so forgive me if I'm completely off base. It sounds like you were disapointed by some people during that time in your life (I'm reluctant to put a label on it). It very well could be that you're experiencing some transference there. It comes up for me way more than I care to admit. My advice would be to be honest with your T and the next time he says, "I'm willing...", maybe you could say "When you say X it makes me feel YZ."
I know that's easier said than done, but if you don't discuss it with him, he's going to keep saying it and you're going to keep those feelings inside. Good luck.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 0:51:35
In reply to T's wording keeps distance, posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
Forgive me for not remembering the basics here. How long have you been seeing him? How is your general relationship?
I agree that laying it out as a When you... I feel... is probably the wisest choice. I often learn interesting things when I do that with my therapist.
He was guilty of similar behavior, BTW. I learned by asking that he had been taken advantage of in the past and was wary of being taken advantage of in the future. It wasn't really personal on his part. It was just his style. When he thought about it, he realized that I *wouldn't* do that, and in fact I haven't. He tries harder now, but he still falls short on occasions, and his phone contact often does as much harm as good, or more.
But he does care, in general.
That doesn't mean every therapist does, for whatever reasons of their own.
If you globally get the feeling that he doesn't care... Oh drat. I globally got that feeling too, and in the end we did hammer out a caring relationship. I am just no good at telling when something is better ditched than kept.
Posted by daisym on February 2, 2005, at 1:04:04
In reply to T's wording keeps distance, posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
I think you should bring it up. He probably doesn't even realize how it comes off to you. I think we all develop ways of phrasing things and we stop "hearing" ourselves.
It seems to me that it is standard for therapists to want us to initiate contact -- leave messages or arrange calls or ask for extra sessions. I guess it is part of recognizing what we need and asking for it, taking responsibility for our therapy.
I think the phrase "I'd be willing" is meant to be nuetral -- not encouraging you nor discouraging you. He probably doesn't want to send the wrong message but wants you to know calling is an option.
I think you should listen to your heart. He wouldn't have brought it up as an option if he thought it was a bad idea, or if he truly didn't want to make the effort. But I would still talk to him about the wording and tell him what a hard time you have with it.
This is all really hard, isn't it? I wish I could make it easier for you.
Posted by Shortelise on February 2, 2005, at 1:04:59
In reply to T's wording keeps distance, posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
Speaker, I am not going to tell you anything you don't already know, and I know that. Maybe I'll say it in a way that clicks for you, because for me, it's when I hear things at the right moment in the right way that I can feel the truth in them.
I'll need to think this through as I write because it's more of a felt thing than a thought thing, so bear with me.
He says, "I'm willing for you to call".
He isn't saying whatever it is you need to hear.
But you don't tell him. You don't say to him, that doesn't sound real, it doesn;t sound sincere.
And you believe you should be able to work through it on your own.
Speaker, if you could work through this stuff on your own, would you be in therapy?
If you have to keep coming back to your mistrust of his sincerity, then you have to come back to it. If you stay there for months, chewing on it, then so be it.
If you need more than he is giving, you need to deal with it, because it's the stuff that drives us nuts in our relationships with our T's that is the same stuff that is driving us crazy in our real lives.
That's the important bit there: when we begin to confront the crap in our relationships with our T's. then we beging to heal the crap in our lives.
Bring it up, Speaker, and bring it up again if the feelings are still there or something else happens where you feel uncared for, or unimportant or whatever the feelings are. Stay on it, fight it out. My opinion of course, as always. I write with such conviction, someone might actually think I know what I'm talking about!
ShortE
PS I hope I don't get on your nerves. I can be so strident.
Posted by Nimrod on February 2, 2005, at 5:49:43
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Speaker, posted by Shortelise on February 2, 2005, at 1:04:59
I would say definitely bring it up to him.
I had a wonderful T once, the only reason I'm not still seeing her is I moved out of her range. During our last session she thanked me for everything she learned talking to me.
There's an old saying that the best teachers are the ones who learn from their students. It's extremely likely that your T would appreciate what you have to say.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 7:16:53
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Speaker, posted by thewrite1 on February 1, 2005, at 22:51:23
Thanks...I have been thinking I will need to talk to hime if this is going to work.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 7:21:26
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 0:51:35
Dinah,
I have been with this T over a year and I do really like him. My last T was more like Daisy's and gave the warm fuzzies...this guy is very good but VERY slow on any extra's other than appts. I don't have a problem with his protection of his time (I think that's wise) but when and if he says something it should be sincere or just don't offer. I am thinking he is probably sincere but uses his protective wording and I am overly aware of people protecting themselves. I am making way too much out of this I'm sure.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 7:27:01
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 2, 2005, at 1:04:04
Daisy,
My old T was much more like yours...very affirming and quick to let me know he wanted to be there for me. I know this guy is sincere but just not as warm but he is "willing" to be there for me. I guess I do need to let him know I have another ISSUE :). I always appreciate that you give me your input!
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 7:29:55
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance, posted by Nimrod on February 2, 2005, at 5:49:43
I know but I'm tired of training people that should already be trained...argh! I will bring this up or I think I will continue to keep a distance and that won't work for me. Thanks
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 8:28:11
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Speaker, posted by Shortelise on February 2, 2005, at 1:04:59
You don't get on my nerves at all :)! I know I need to address this with my T. After reading that in every reply I will work on taking care of this so it can be a more open relationship. I'm sure my past is just getting in the way. It just bugs me big time when people offer to help but really don't mean it.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 11:47:17
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Dinah, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 7:21:26
I'm sure you're not.
Words can be used to convey many things not spoken. My therapist's words conveyed distrust, and after we spoke, he realized because he had thought about it consciously for the first time, that his mistrust was misplaced, a leftover of other clients who may have reminded him of me, but who were not me. I'm guessing that that realization spilled over into other situations as well.
Your therapist's words might at best be a determined effort to give you the space and dignity to chart the course of your own therapy. At worst, they may mean what you fear. Most likely they mean something neither best nor worse case scenario.
But talking about it and discovering it together will either remove that barrier between you and make more effective therapy possible, or do the opposite. But it's got to be better than wondering in silence.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 11:58:56
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 11:47:17
Your so Right! I want you to know Dinah I have been praying for you. You have so much going on right now it blesses me that you take the time to answer my posts. Please continue to take care of you. I have no clue what to tell you about your work situation but I know I quit my job in Sept. actually feeling defeated because I just couldn't keep up with the lack of concentration and lack of caring I felt. At first I thought I was such a looser but NOW I'm just so grateful I don't have that stress and I am learning to enjoy my freedom for the first time in 20 years. Take care and I'll let you know what my T says after I take your advise and talk to him.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 12:42:05
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance » Dinah, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 11:58:56
And yes, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. I'm looking forward to hearing.
Posted by pinkeye on February 2, 2005, at 13:23:23
In reply to T's wording keeps distance, posted by Speaker on February 1, 2005, at 22:12:47
He is doing his job. Nothing more and nothing less. It would probably feel good if he treats you as a friend and offer help of his own etc or do things for you without you asking for him - but the way he is now, in the long run he is teaching you to be self reliant. I think you should appreciate him for that. And you have others who are what they are - friends - only they need to be proactive in offering you help - not him.
If he comes to your rescue everytime, you will get overly dependant on him and will expect him to do it for you always. Which is good neither for him and nor for you. So even if it is a little hard to take it now, do know that he is doing the best thing for you.
If he were totally un empathetic that would be a different story. But you have said he sounds sincere.
Pinkeye.
> My T uses wording that keeps him very distant for me. I know its my problem but I don't know if I should bring it up or should I just try to work through my feelings? He will say "I'm willing if you want to check in on Wednesday's" or I hope you know "I'm willing to call you back if you leave a message on my machine". I know I should be able to move past this but I struggle to feel like he is sincere. My first husband was terminally ill for several years and my daughter was chritically injured and had a year in the hospital. I could tell the people that truely wanted to help and they weren't the people that said: "Call me if you need me" and "I'm willing to help if you tell me what to do". I was so tired I couldn't think let alone think of things for other people to do. They were "willing" but the people that were sincere were the ones that mowed the lawn when they saw it was long or the woman that said I'm not very good at talking but I will be by on Sunday to get your laundry and will be returning it on Wednesdays. They weren't just willing they were doing! Is this just my problem or should I believe my heart and know he is just doing his job???
Posted by namaste on February 2, 2005, at 16:51:53
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance, posted by pinkeye on February 2, 2005, at 13:23:23
My T says I often make assumptions and that is dangerous because they are not always correct. He might just be sincere??, tell him how you feel that is what it is all about, an opportunity to practice. My T always says call me if you need me,does that sound different to you? I have alot of ancient feelings too, they are hard to work through.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 18:03:42
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance, posted by pinkeye on February 2, 2005, at 13:23:23
I have been with this T for over a year and there is no way he is worried about me becoming dependant. I think he has developed a pat way of saying things and sometimes needs to remember we are all different people. Not all of us are looking to take advantage...I just need to feel like he is really there! Thanks for your input. I do understand it is not his job to be my friend nor am I interested in going there.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2005, at 18:09:30
In reply to Re: T's wording keeps distance, posted by namaste on February 2, 2005, at 16:51:53
Call me if you need to...does sound different to me :)...isn't that funny. I do tend to assume but I am also very discerning about people and their motives no matter how they word things...my T even tells me it is amazing to him how right I am about people.
I have decided to open the session with a question and ask him why he words things with "I am willing". It might be cleared up by his explanation and I won't need to go further. However, I am ready to tell him what I think if I am not settled by his answer. Thanks for your message.
Posted by Speaker on February 5, 2005, at 20:23:32
In reply to Thank you. :) I appreciate that., posted by Dinah on February 2, 2005, at 12:42:05
Dinah,
It was very interesting! I started the session by saying that I think I have created a problem for myself in the way I take a few things he says. He wanted to know how I took that and I said no I asked first. He said he was willing to look at his schedule and set up a time to talk. Then I stated the "your willing" and how I percieve that like being willing to get a shot to get better...I'm willing but if there is another way I'm all for it, or cleaning up the dishes after a meal...willing but not fun. He said I was very intuative and he had never really thought about how he stated his willingness to help. I think it was a learning time for both of us...of course at my expense :). Take care, Marie
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2005, at 18:36:58
In reply to Re: Thank you. :) I appreciate that., posted by Speaker on February 5, 2005, at 20:23:32
I'm glad it went well. And that he got a client's perspective on how what he says comes across. I get the distinct impression from my therapist that many clients don't provide feedback...
This is the end of the thread.
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