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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Poet on December 18, 2004, at 12:18:02
In reply to Oh thanks, but..., posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 10:06:24
Hi Toph,
I don't accept compliments very well. If anyone says I look nice today, I question what I looked like on other days.
I have zero self esteem, and I think people with low self esteem just can't accept that something about them is praise worthy.
I have too much self hatred to let myself believe and accept that they like something about me. It's hard to just smile and say thank you, when I really want to say *liar or no way I'm (attractive, good at something, smart, etc.)*
Poet
Posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 12:55:26
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but..., posted by Poet on December 18, 2004, at 12:18:02
Hi Poet,
We haven't talked before but I've seen your name. I know you've had a tough go of it over the years. I hope you've mastered the disorder you've described. You have a similar dichotomy as I, I try to stay away from depression but have to look out for excess happiness (can there really be excess happiness?), while you have to avoid binging, but if you loose your appetite it means you're depressed. No wonder we're confused. Anyway, I'd like to compliment you on bravely sharing your struggle with us and being kind to others in the process.
-Toph
Posted by Shortelise on December 18, 2004, at 16:39:07
In reply to Oh thanks, but..., posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 10:06:24
Toph,
It took me ages to learn to simply say "thank you" to a compliment.
When I compliment someone and they stand there, awkward and blushing, I will often say, just say thank you, that's all you need to say.
Giving someone a compliment is a form of kindness. It's not necessary, it's not obligatory, it doesn't pay. It's just kindness. So thanking a person for a compliment is not anything - to me - but a thank you for the kindness they are showing. Whether or not I do look fabulous or whatever they are complimenting is worthy of a compliment is inconsequential.
((((Toph))))
ShortE
Posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 22:07:35
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by Shortelise on December 18, 2004, at 16:39:07
ShortE,
If I'm really honest about it, every time I post I guess I'm hoping that someone will find my ideas to be funny, intelligent, clever, kind or whatever. At work I speak in such an impassioned tone that I sure they think I'm nuts (actually, I've only told my best friend there about my illness and I pray that she hasn't shared this confidence with anyone else). But I'm really sensitive to whether people like me. I remember this one coworker who wanted me to remove this severely brian injured woman from her husband's home. She had had an ameuryism and could only utter a few words. Her husband was kind of an @ss, he brought women home with him surely hurting his wife. But when you asked her if she wanted to be cared for in a nursing home, if you looked into her eyes she would tell you in a way that was clear that she wanted to stay with her family and watch her children grow even if it meant watching her husband's betrayal. The other worker did everything to sabotage the funding for this family and I called her on it to the entire department. We didn't speak for years. But I knew she was a good person and it began to bother me that we weren't talking even after the client had died. What does this have to do with compliments? I'm not sure but it took a while to write so I'm leaving it. I guess I was saying that I hate it when anyone dislikes me and yet, for whatever reason, I have no confidence in accepting any praise. Maybe that's related in some way to why I have many friends but no really close ones, but that's another topic for another day.
-Toph
Posted by gardenergirl on December 18, 2004, at 22:08:12
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but..., posted by Poet on December 18, 2004, at 12:18:02
>
> I don't accept compliments very well. If anyone says I look nice today, I question what I looked like on other days.Oh my! I think the same thing! That's why I try to leave off the "today" part when I say something like that to someone else. Just: "you look nice."
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on December 18, 2004, at 22:11:36
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by Shortelise on December 18, 2004, at 16:39:07
>
> It took me ages to learn to simply say "thank you" to a compliment.I'm still working on this. I tend to minimize whatever they are saying. Kind of like the "oh, this ol' thing? I just threw it on." Only that sounds a bit manipulative to fish for additional compliments. I guess I spent a lifetime trying to prove I'm not all that, cause my dad always set such high expectations.
Hmm that doesn't make much sense to me. I guess I am still working on this issue.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on December 18, 2004, at 22:12:52
In reply to Oh thanks, but..., posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 10:06:24
Toph,
I have the same trouble, and really not much to offer in insight. I think ShortE's way of dealing with it, just say thank you, may be a good start.Warmly,
gg
Posted by 10derheart on December 19, 2004, at 0:03:18
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Shortelise, posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 22:07:35
Toph -
I know I've just started posting a lot, but I've been lurking nearly a year and reading your posts for a long time. I often think they are funny, intelligent and clever. Not to mention honest, witty, supportive and helpful. So there!
And I TOTALLY have had this problem. The past few years it's gotten much better. For me, it's practice, practice, practice saying "thank you" and stopping myself from minimizing and discounting the compliment. After a while, it gets more natural. But it's tough. Just last week I was wearing makeup, which I only do a few times a month when the impulse hits me, and several female friends literally stopped in their tracks to say, "Wow! You look great!" These are lovely, warm folks who aren't known to be superficial or fake. But it was a huge struggle NOT to say, "Oh, so how horrid do I look all the rest of the time without makeup?!" Very similar to the dilemna people have when they want to compliment you about weight issues. These are minefields where it's hard to win, don't you think?It's a really interesting thread. Thanks for posting it!
Posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 5:14:38
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by 10derheart on December 19, 2004, at 0:03:18
Thanks. You're kind, like your name.
About this make up thing. I notice with my clients that age is the great equalizer when it comes to beauty. Yet, it appears that women whose persona when younger greatly involved beauty are more likely to continue to wear make up as an older adult. Not that they shouldn't be able to wear it, its just that for some it seems like they are fighting back the wrinkles. I would think in some way it would be a relief not to have to put on all that stuff. Though I guess it's like that sucking in the stomach thing that guys do.
Oh, and 10, you look, mahvalous.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 9:28:32
In reply to Oh thanks, but..., posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 10:06:24
I think I am uncomfortable with compliments, although I like them just fine. I realized not too very long ago that while I don't reject them exactly, that I tend to ignore them completely. Probably even worse than rejection. Perhaps it feels immodest to acknowledge them, or I feel like they aren't deserved.
I'm not sure. I have all sorts of idiosyncratic personal ideas (eye contact and name usage being two others that spring immediatedly to mind) of what's polite that totally violate societal norms and lead me to be impolite. My therapist thinks that's very schizotypal of me.
I need to work on my thank you skills.
(My son says "oh" when someone says something nice to him. I'm kind of wondering if we both have the same problem. We were both complimented rather too much when we were little, only child and all that, and I think it leads to an uneasy recognition that no one's that wonderful.)
Posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 9:57:17
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 9:28:32
Dismissing a compliment from a mother is a genetic imperative developed over tens of thousands of genrations of adolescent boys, Dinah. As a teen I used to walk far from my mother in public and would magically reappear when her purse would open. It's a developmental separation thing, I suppose.
Again, I am intrigued by my want for recognition and the apparent disbelief if I get it. I think I get a sense that it's from years of having to be hypervigilant against mania. It's almost like a comedian or comedienne who thrives off laughter as compensation for painful shyness and insecurity, who is then rendered unfunny by their success.
BTW, I'm sorry for you loss, Dinah (excuse the segue).
-Toph
Posted by anastasia56 on December 19, 2004, at 16:20:33
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 9:28:32
dinah,
i am curious what your feeling is on eye contact. you mentioned it and i am awful at eye contact. my father, i believe it was, wasn't good at it either.anastasia
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 16:26:48
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but..., posted by anastasia56 on December 19, 2004, at 16:20:33
I know intellectually that eye contact is considered polite in this culture. Lack of eye contact is seen as a bit strange.
But in my gut, I feel that it is rude to make eye contact. That it is intruding upon someone else, forcing them into closer contact than either of us might wish. It seems very intimate to me, and something that should be reserved for those we feel intimacy with. I don't even make eye contact with my therapist.
I have real difficulties overriding what my gut feels with what my brain knows, so I rarely make eye contact.
Since my beliefs are so out of keeping with our culture, and even though I understand this, my therapist considers it one of my schizotypal, "eccentric" to put it more politely, traits.
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 16:30:45
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Dinah, posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 9:57:17
Looking back, when do you think you started having trouble accepting compliments gracefully?
If it has been a trait of yours since childhood, would bipolar explain it sufficiently? I'm not sure what age bipolar begins to manifest itself.
Were you complimented a lot as a child? My mother was free with extravagant compliments. My dad never complimented. I got more than my share from teachers and other adults (surprise, surprise huh?), and not enough from peers.
Posted by anastasia56 on December 19, 2004, at 17:58:06
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Shortelise, posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 22:07:35
toph,
as is true with any of us, some of our posts are more revealing than others. To me, your post here speaks volumes of you. You had the empathy to see what the woman who could not speak for herself was saying. You made a tough choice...one that had the potential for you to lose a co-workers alliance and yet you made it...what better evidence of strength of character.
You sound like a sensitive soul and that makes what you did even more impressive. Sensitive souls feel negativity more strongly than most people which makes risking someones anger doubly hard. Personally I worry that the bad karma of someones anger will jinx my car, job, family. Natural instinct screams out "fix it before it's too late!" Am I being rational? Doubtful ! Plus there's the whole "if I were perfect and everyone loved me (everyone loves a perfect person?) this would never have happened".
acceptance and approval? you have both from me.
anastasia
Posted by anastasia56 on December 19, 2004, at 18:08:31
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » anastasia56, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 16:26:48
dinah,
very interesting. I simply cannot seem to make consistent eye contact while i'm speaking. If I am listening to someone I can look at them easily but not if I am speaking. I guess my father may have imbued that in me subconsciously as I don't recall him saying it but my mother tells me he believed it was impolite to make eye contact. however, he did stress the importance of making eye contact while shaking hands.
thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess I always felt it was a shortcoming of mine, this inability to meet someones eyes...this makes me feel more like it is a choice.
be well...
my condolencesanastasia
Posted by Shortelise on December 19, 2004, at 19:20:33
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Shortelise, posted by Toph on December 18, 2004, at 22:07:35
Toph,
Maybe friendship in itself is a sort of praise.
ShortE
Posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 21:17:53
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 16:30:45
Good question. I've been racking my brain trying to remember early compliments from my parents. Sadly the first significant compliment was in third grade, what 8 years old, when I finally had a special teacher. This is when I started clowning to get attention. I was punished a lot and the punishment was to have to stay in with Miss Schultz during recess. Are you kidding, a little one on one time with Miss Schultz was no punishment. She caught on and held me after school causing me to miss the bus. My mom started thinking I would grow up to be a serial killer at this point, but I didn't care, guess who drove me home? I was a terrible reader-absolutely froze when it came my turm to read out loud infront of the class. Miss Schultz thought I was a good writer and put me in the writing group. I didn't like it because we went to Mrs Mustoe's class. In the end Miss Schultz read one of my stories out loud to the class (I'm sure because she knew how much trouble I had reading even my own writing). I've told this story and other elementary school stories to both shrinks I've had and both have remarked about how significant it is that when I was small I had many traumas but I mostly suffered in silence or prayed alot instead of turning to my mother for solace and comfort. I still haven't figured out why because she wasn't especially cold. Maybe a birth order thing. My brother was 1 1/2 when I was born and then I was only 1 when my younger brother was born. I don't know if my mom had enough time for me. I'm sure glad I had Miss Schultz or maybe my mother's fears might have been realized.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 21:24:29
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Dinah, posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 21:17:53
I'm sorry, Toph. :(
I suspect that accepting compliments may be a learned skill. I think all children should be given plenty of opportunities to learn it.
It's a delicate balance with kids, I think. I remember the montessori teaching was that compliments should be directed to effort more than outcome, shouldn't be overly profuse, and should be specific rather than general. I think I tend to overcompliment. But he's an only child. Three in that short succession, and I'd probably be lucky to dress and feed them all.
So you had too few compliments, I possibly had too profuse compliments.
I wonder if those who accept compliments well could weigh in with their experiences as a child.
P.S. My son was very slow to learn to read, compared to my husband and I at least. But he was very precocious about learning to write. He has a drive to express himself. I always said he would probably learn to read by reading his own writing. Are you by chance lefthanded or ambidextrous?
Posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 21:29:25
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by anastasia56 on December 19, 2004, at 17:58:06
Thanks anastasia. I only wish all my interventions were beneficial. I'm getting a little uncomfortable with a thread being about me. I was lost for years until I accepted my illness. I can't tell you how lucky I am to have a major mental illness that is mostly under control. But what I want to confess is that social work saved me. It's not the most lucrative job, but I like the fact that for 25 years I have met thousands of interesting people who needed help. For some, the only thing you can do is tell them there's help if you want it and walk away. But I digress again. The sad part is that many times I am more civil, considerate and attentive to my clients than to people I love. I wish there were a pill that could fix that.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 22:18:40
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » anastasia56, posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 21:29:25
> The sad part is that many times I am more civil, considerate and attentive to my clients than to people I love. I wish there were a pill that could fix that.
> -Toph
>I don't think they make pills to fix being human. That's a pretty common failing. My husband's coworkers think he's the most easygoing person alive. My cousin emphasized in my father's eulogy how patient and even tempered he was. My therapist often answers my positive remarks about his patience and even temper with remarks that his family might not agree. And I suspect he's right - I always wonder why anyone would want a personal relationship with their therapist when we've got the best part of them.
I think I'm one of the few people who isn't much different at home than at work. And I'm not sure that's a good thing at all.
Posted by verne on December 20, 2004, at 19:33:00
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » anastasia56, posted by Toph on December 19, 2004, at 21:29:25
"I'm getting a little uncomfortable with a thread being about me."
didn't you want this thread to be about you?
verne
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 21, 2004, at 0:50:40
In reply to Re: Oh thanks, but... » Toph, posted by verne on December 20, 2004, at 19:33:00
> > I'm getting a little uncomfortable with a thread being about me.
>
> didn't you want this thread to be about you?Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by verne on December 21, 2004, at 1:11:17
In reply to Re: please be civil » verne, posted by Dr. Bob on December 21, 2004, at 0:50:40
I thought I could sneak that bit of uncivility under the radar. You caught it.
You are sharp, no doubt. Thanks for reminding me.
verne
Posted by Toph on December 21, 2004, at 9:21:37
In reply to Thanks for Reminding Me. » Dr. Bob, posted by verne on December 21, 2004, at 1:11:17
I'm just reading this now and I thought verne's question was a good one. I was puzzled with Bob's interpretation until verne agreed with it. Well, even if verne was calling me dishonest, I don't thing he's uncivil by asking my motives about something.
That aside, most babblers make their posts public and not private babblemail because they want others to view their post's, a kind of "someone look at what I'm thinking right now." I wanted people to know the irony I find in wanting praise and having a difficult time accepting it (that is about me). Then people replied and I began to share more about myself than I originally intended. Some posters said nice things about me that made me uncomfortable (kind of the theme here), so I commented it was becoming to much about me. verne's question was a good one nonetheless. The truthful answer is, yes - every post that I make is a vain attempt to have someone else validate me. I think I'd really be sick if I thought I'd get it every time.
-Toph
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