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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saw on November 16, 2004, at 3:05:36
I have not done a lot of research on the genetic side of depression, though I know it is commonly listed as a cause of depression.
I learned on Sunday that my late father was diagnosed as manic depressive when I was just 6 years old. My mother told me, so it was a shock to her too. (Apparantly, his mother, my gran suffers too).
Even though my breakdown and inital depression was situational, knowing that there is evidence of this illness in my family made me me feel a little bit normal. Does that make sense?
I would appreciate all views on the genetic psychology of depression.
Sabrina
Posted by partlycloudy on November 16, 2004, at 5:43:28
In reply to Depression and Genetics, posted by saw on November 16, 2004, at 3:05:36
My nephew has been having a hard time at school. When my brother took him to the doctor, he asked the rest of the family about our experiences, if any, with depression. So far the tally is
my nephew
my brother
my sister
me
and I found out our dad had been hospitalized in the 50's for depression, something I never knew but doesn't surprise me in the least.
Posted by sunny10 on November 16, 2004, at 8:34:31
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » saw, posted by partlycloudy on November 16, 2004, at 5:43:28
My grandmother suffered through life
My mother caused suffering to everyone she came in contact with.
My sister has been missing for the last four years- last time she was heard "about" a policeman apparently called my mother and told her that my sister, aged 35, had been found unconscious in her car a whole state's length from her home- and she didn't know how she got there. It was dx'd as a "fugue state". But she was 35 and not under arrest, so they let her go. No one has heard from her since.
My sister's daughter was in juvenile detention from 15 to 18 yrs of age.
My brother will never let anyone in emotionally ever again. His wife lives with a depressed stranger now, and she suffers because of it.
I have suffered since about 14- I am 37 now.
You tell me... genetics?
My vote is yes...
Posted by Joslynn on November 16, 2004, at 9:43:35
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » partlycloudy, posted by sunny10 on November 16, 2004, at 8:34:31
What about the link between depression, alcoholism and genetics? I think I read somewhere that where there is alcoholism in families, there is usually depression, and vice versa. My Dad I am convinced has had depression most of his life, untreated, except for his attempts at self-medicating with alcohol. Depression and alcohoism there. Both his brothers were also alcoholics and in fact one died in his 40s because of it.
I have a sibling with some depression, usually situational but then it gets bigger than that. Not as serious as my bouts have been.
No depression on Mom's side of family,
Posted by antigua on November 16, 2004, at 10:01:57
In reply to Depression and Genetics, posted by saw on November 16, 2004, at 3:05:36
Well, let's see, who in my family hasn't suffered from depression, achoholism and/or drug abuse? I worry about my children so much because these issues are ALL on both sides of my family and my husband's family.
I know the gene won't skip over my family, but I've been really open w/my kids all along in an attempt to make them more aware. I don't know what else to do except for getting them help when they've needed it and letting them know it's not their fault and help is always available.
antigua
Posted by Froso on November 16, 2004, at 11:12:27
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » partlycloudy, posted by sunny10 on November 16, 2004, at 8:34:31
>
> My mother caused suffering to everyone she came in contact with.
>
It doesn't sound genetic to me. Forgive me if I have to disagree. I believe in the old psychoanalytic school.
Posted by JenStar on November 16, 2004, at 12:00:02
In reply to Depression and Genetics, posted by saw on November 16, 2004, at 3:05:36
hi Sabrina,
I think it's sort of calming to find out that your illness isn't some kind of innate flaw -- having it be genetic lets you sigh in relief and say, "Whew! This isn't all my fault!"Of course you can still conquer it, and should -- but you know that it's not some mysterious virus-like ghostly disease, it's actually a nuts&bolts disease.
I felt stronger knowing that I had a history of depression in the family. I realized the disease had roots in genes and not just "in my head." Although I know depression IS "in the head", so it's a kind of strange distinction! But I know what you mean about feeling better anyway.
good luck!
JenStar
Posted by Daisym on November 16, 2004, at 13:04:15
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » saw, posted by JenStar on November 16, 2004, at 12:00:02
I think this is a very complicated Nature vs. Nurture debate. There are genetic links to most diseases and depression is a disease. On the other hand, there are situational causes and cumulative stressors that can result in psychological issues and depression. Depends on what and how you learned to cope, if you did at all, and who you have to turn to.
There is a strong link between diabetes and depression. Is it the chemicals in the brain, due to the up and down sugar levels, as glucose is the only thing that feeds the brain? Or is the constant strain and threat this disease puts on a person as the self-care is so high? I think it must be both.
I guess I want to argue that even if you are the only person in your family to have depression, it isn't better or worse than someone who can point to 10 people. No one would actively choose this, gentically predisposed or not. It is a disease that needs treatment.
Posted by mair on November 16, 2004, at 13:54:19
In reply to Depression and Genetics, posted by saw on November 16, 2004, at 3:05:36
I definitely know what you mean about being almost reassured that there is a genetic predisposition.
There is no documented depression or mental illness in my family to my knowledge, although I have suspicions about my father. This lack of family history has always bothered me. It's not that I feel like I don't deserve my own depression in the "why did this have to happen to me" sense. To the contrary, the chronicity of my illness, given the lack of family history (and the lack of genuine childhood trauma), has always made me feel like I must not want to get better, or that maybe I'm a malingerer. It's sort of like I'm not entitled to my illness, so it's hard for me to excuse it and to forgive myself for having it.
These are strange distinctions I know, but important ones to me - I've really struggled with this for awhile.
Mair
Posted by sunny10 on November 16, 2004, at 13:59:02
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » sunny10, posted by Froso on November 16, 2004, at 11:12:27
Ah, but she was formed that way by being raised by a depressed person, and having depression herself.
There are two types of people, those in whom depression is internalized, like most of us here, posting; then there are those who externalize it, they are the psychopaths. Just because they are not victims doesn't mean they don't suffer from the effects of depression. Why do you think the insanity plea was instituted as a viable defense?
Posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 0:38:06
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics, posted by Daisym on November 16, 2004, at 13:04:15
<<There is a strong link between diabetes and depression>>
Reading that caused a strong physical reaction. I learned last Tuesday (the day before my dad died) that he had diabetes. His kidneys failed a couple of hours before he died because of diabetes. Nobody knew about the diabetes that had been diagnosed about 3 years earlier. I wonder if I'll become diabetic??
Sabrina
Posted by daisym on November 17, 2004, at 1:23:46
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics, posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 0:38:06
Diabetes has a strong genetic component but if your dad had Type II, which he probably did if he was older when he got it, you can avoid getting it by keeping your weight down, exercising, drinks lots of water and eat relatively healthy. It is by no means automatic.
I didn't mean to scare you. I was just trying to use it to make a point.
Posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 4:01:02
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » saw, posted by daisym on November 17, 2004, at 1:23:46
You didn't scare me, it just gave me food for serious thought. He would have had type II because of his lifestyle. I have, however just learned, that he may have been incorrectly diagnosed and that he had Lupus (?) disease. My uncle has it, my brother may get it. I will have to do more research to find out where I stand genetically on this one.
Thanks for your input Daisy.
Sabrina
Posted by Froso on November 17, 2004, at 5:44:41
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » Froso, posted by sunny10 on November 16, 2004, at 13:59:02
I wonder how your mother would have been if she had been raised by a healthier person or someone that had undergone therapy.
I said that meaning that you can break the cycle (grandmother-mother-siblings and you and your children sorry I don't know if you have children).
It's the question of whether someone who has been abused will be an abuser herself. There are other factors as well. I don't know what I'm saying. Sorry.
all the best
froso
Posted by sunny10 on November 17, 2004, at 8:07:33
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » sunny10, posted by Froso on November 17, 2004, at 5:44:41
Yes, I have a son. He is thirteen. He now lives with his father (as of one month ago). He's dx's with ADHD and depression. I've been reading up on all of this stuff and finding out that a lot of kids (especially boys) are misdiagnosed with ADHD when they are really bipolar.... scares the cr*p out of me... I'm hoping that I'm being paranoid and overly critical.
If his father ever told the truth, he would be dx'd as NPD. I have major depression (some say with bipolar/ hypomania tendencies). The poor kid doesn't stand a chance.
I'm not sure that I would have given birth to him if I had known then what I know now. I wish that my son was willing to work on his issues, but he's not, and he chose to live with the parent with no rules (but a wicked temper- go figure...)
I feel guilty every day
Posted by Susan47 on November 18, 2004, at 1:51:28
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » Froso, posted by sunny10 on November 17, 2004, at 8:07:33
I just read your post. I didn't know you felt this way, kind of like I do. I'm overwhelmed right now, want to talk to you some more about this. I have three children my oldest is 21 he left home at the same age I did, seventeen.
Posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 9:01:39
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on November 18, 2004, at 1:51:28
It's all a vicious cycle, Susan. I always try to put a strong, positive response out here- to try to help other people.
Maybe mostly because I feel so guilty that everyone around me has to deal with the "me" I turned out to be. I am desperate to "become" something/someone better.
My interpersonal skills are lacking- mostly because I never experienced anything "interpersonal" at all with my single/divorced mother of three children. My stepfather married her when I was nine ( I'm the youngest). He beat me whenever I had the temerity to "debate"- I have always enjoyed playing devil's advocate just for the sake of continuing a conversation. I guess it was the "looking for attention" side of growing up with an emotionally uninvolved mother. Now there was a "Dad" for the first time in my life; and he beat me whenever I opened my mouth to express myself. I learned to fear confrontation and fear being me- complete with opinions. Opinions get you beaten.
The rest has been textbook "looking to repeat the experience, but win this time- MAKE them love me" situation.
But during me trying to be loved, my poor son was born into all of this. And I feel guilty over him, I feel guilty that I cannot "love or leave" my elderly father, emotionally. I feel guilty that it is now my very kind SO that has to deal with my guilts and preconceived reactions to "interpersonal relationships"- which always paints him as the "bad guy" at the time. I make sure that I discuss with him afterwards what was going through my mind, and that I LOGICALLY know that he was not trying to hurt me- but he has to suffer through the moment that these reactions occur and the moment that I feel "safe" enough to discuss them... He is, thankfully, a fast learner and is getting better at not taking my reactions personally, but I still feel guilty for having them.
What to do? How to "change" ? And the age old question, "can a leopard change its spots?" at all?
So, there was just a bit of the story... but it is the beginning... the rest are just "not exact" replicas of that, with each relationship worse than the one before as different types of abuse started entering the picture.
I don't want to be "me".
That's why I can't find the right therapist, truth be told. They all want me to "cope with" being me. I don't even want to BE me.
-suuny10
Posted by Froso on November 18, 2004, at 12:49:14
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » Froso, posted by sunny10 on November 17, 2004, at 8:07:33
I'm sorry I didn't know. You probably know more about genetics.
Thirteen is the most difficult age. I'm sure once he grows up a bit more he will work on his issues.
You shouldn't feel guilty. You have the courage to face your problems now, you 're more aware and you can help your son.
I don't know how to define my illness. I had an acute psychotic episode and depression. Mine had mostly to do with unresolved conflicts. It isn't hereditary so I don't know about these things. Therapy is helping and I hope some day I won't need the medication.
But it's different with you. I wish you all the best.
Are you in therapy now? Are you sure your depression isn't related to your difficult childhood? I'm very confused about these issues.
please forgive me if I have offended you in any way.
If I had the chance when I was thirteen I would have chosen to stay with the parent with no rules as well. But he never expressed any desire to have me.
Posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 14:55:58
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics, posted by Froso on November 18, 2004, at 12:49:14
What I believe is that I suffer from my chemical depression BECAUSE of my upbringing. There are a lot of people out there who have chemical depression, and once medicated correctly, they are FINE. I don't. I suffer because it was ingrained deepdown inside me that I was no good- not worth a damn, can never do anything right no matter how much or what kind of meds they give me.
I know consciously that I am not completely horrible, but during day to day interactions with other people my emotional reactions are visceral- straight from the subconscious.
That's why I always express myself better in writing. Pause, think, type...set aside for later when I want to deal with it.... think, type, pause. You can't do that during a conversation with your SO, your friends, your co-workers, even a stranger at the local convenience store. Those are situations that mess me up, emotionally. I usually (read: not always) do the right things/say the right things, but I carry that subconscious anxiety away with me always, which drifts into depressive thoughts.
Does that make more sense?
I felt your pain when you said that the parent without rules didn't want you, I'm sorry. If it makes you feel better, my divorced mom didn't want any of her three children. Unfortunately, no one gave any of us a choice whether we'd prefer to live somewhere else. (My brother and sister's father was a physical abuser whom she divorced- my father didn't marry her when he found out she was having a third child, this one by him)I did give my son that choice. Hopefully, somewhere down the line he will see that.
I'm sorry if I upset you, Froso. As I look back on my life, and the things I did while mired deeply in depression, I can see that people have been right to call them "psychotic", too. I have just never been diagnosed that way.
-sunny10
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2004, at 18:40:34
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics, posted by Joslynn on November 16, 2004, at 9:43:35
My father suffered depressive episodes all his life, self medicating with alchohol. How I wish he would have sought help. :( All his family except his alchoholic depressed brother was dead by the time I was born. I don't know the history except that whoever didn't die of heart disease or cancer died of cirrhosis. That was one of the big killers in the family. So his family on both sides was heavy on alchoholism. I'm guessing at least a percentage of those were self medicating depressives.
My mother's side doesn't have unipolar depression. They either have manic depression with psychotic episodes or schizophrenia. My mother doesn't like to elaborate.
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2004, at 18:46:00
In reply to Re: Depression and Genetics » saw, posted by mair on November 16, 2004, at 13:54:19
Mair, as you know, I struggle with those same thoughts. Even though I know that they aren't good thoughts for me to be having.
The type of problems I have are ones that almost always come with sexual or severe physical abuse. I feel like I don't deserve to have mine because I had neither. I think I should just pull myself together and quit being such a baby.
Of course there is the family history, but that worries me even more. The people in my mother's side of the family who had psychotic episodes were the ones under the most life stressors. That reminds me a bit too much of the way I don't handle stress well *at all*, and makes me worry.
Posted by Froso on November 19, 2004, at 5:07:40
In reply to Re: No offense » Froso, posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 14:55:58
I'm usually nice to people, never getting too close but I get stressed when socialising so I'm avoiding it lately. I'm staying at home all the time having depressive thoughts, I'm scared to go and find a job, too scared of people, scared they 'll find out I'm no good. Therapy is making things clearer but I can't put myself together and move on with my life. I'm staying in this position of the little "daughter" and hate my self for that. I can't grow up and forget about my parents and how they've been to me and keep finding myself crying over spilled milk. I haven't seen my therapist this week and feel worse as if she is a panacea. Medication is working in the sense that it keeps me sane. It has been reduced now and I'm wondering whether I will manage. I'm stressed for everything.I'm sure your son will see that you gave him a choice. But you know how it is and how children misapprehend their parents' behaviour. It might be good to talk to him sometime in the future.
I'm sorry for what you've been through and hope you find peace of mind at some point.Fani
Posted by sunny10 on November 19, 2004, at 8:16:01
In reply to Re: No offense » sunny10, posted by Froso on November 19, 2004, at 5:07:40
Please don't hide in the house. Socialising is important. Everyone needs time AWAY from their own thoughts from time to time. Not just people who are depressed; all people.
I understand about the spilt milk. We all have it. We are all working on cleaning it up. It's NOT as easy for some of us as others. People utilize different parts of their brains to think. What portion we use could be caused by chemical inbalances you are born with- sometimes it is a learned response. If we are insecure, scared, et cetera, around those who have raised us (or during severly traumatic experience), we withdraw within our own brains and hide there, learning to use that portion to survive. But it's not the portion used in logical thought processes. It's the primal part used in "fight or flight" responses.
Just because you are having a difficult time getting from one portion of your brain to the other doesn't make you a "spoiled child" who should "just get over it" ! It's a lot of work !
I had a friend who was hit in the head by a commuter train (she tripped on the first set of tracks, and was hit by a train on the other set).
She was in rehab for over two years. In rehab, they had to re-teach her how to think, how to walk, how to talk, et cetera. She came out different. But she had solid 24/7 therapy for 730 days !
We don't get that- insurance and government programs won't cover the cost. And it's THAT hard to re-teach someone to think.
So, please, give yourself a break. And at least socialise here because we are sure not to judge you. We will give you whatever support we can.
This is the end of the thread.
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