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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on November 10, 2004, at 8:25:34
Hello
I want to know if you find something good about the Cognocitve Behavioral Terapy .
I can´t understand how this could help a person
I does not make any sense in me.I went to see a doctor who give this terapy , and he asked me : What do you feel in front of people ? .... I said , I feel observed and that everybody is commenting about me....
Ok the doctor said , he opened a book and told me ,"read this"...The book had a chart with the kind of problems and its respective solutions
Problem :
I think people talk about meSolution :
Do no think that people talk about youwhat ???? are you kidding me ?? is this the solution to my problem ?? o great Im screwed , I thought
You got it? the doctor asked me , and I said "yes" . I can´t argue with a doctor or any person so I better stayed quiet
I don´t understand , I have tried to avoid thinking that people is watching me and talking about me about 8 years , what could the CBT do??
This is not a matter of logic of intelligence , my brain is chemically unbalanced , I can´t just think that they are not thinking me aboutAny comments?? do you have something good to say about CBT ??? I´ll really apreciatte your help
Posted by yznhymer on November 10, 2004, at 8:25:34
In reply to Who has used CBT ? experiences.. please, posted by Tepiaca on November 9, 2004, at 15:29:48
> Hello
> I want to know if you find something good about the Cognocitve Behavioral Terapy .
> I can´t understand how this could help a person
> I does not make any sense in me.
>
> I went to see a doctor who give this terapy , and he asked me : What do you feel in front of people ? .... I said , I feel observed and that everybody is commenting about me....
> Ok the doctor said , he opened a book and told me ,"read this"...
>
> The book had a chart with the kind of problems and its respective solutions
>
> Problem :
> I think people talk about me
>
> Solution :
> Do no think that people talk about you
>
> what ???? are you kidding me ?? is this the solution to my problem ?? o great Im screwed , I thought
>
> You got it? the doctor asked me , and I said "yes" . I can´t argue with a doctor or any person so I better stayed quiet
>
> I don´t understand , I have tried to avoid thinking that people is watching me and talking about me about 8 years , what could the CBT do??
> This is not a matter of logic of intelligence , my brain is chemically unbalanced , I can´t just think that they are not thinking me about
>
> Any comments?? do you have something good to say about CBT ??? I´ll really apreciatte your helpI don't know where to start. That is a terrible application of CBT... in fact what your therapist did with you was not CBT at all. I'm sorry you had that experience.
CBT would involve your therapist taking you through a PROCESS where you LEARN to think differently about a problem, in fact, to think more realistically about it, and change your feelings as a result. There are actual strategies you can learn to use, and there is often "homework" involved. It works and its very effective for a lot of people. It may not be for you but until I tried it with someone competent I wouldn't dismiss it.
Also, I want to encourage you to say NO when you need to. You deserve the best treatment you can find and your doctor was shortchanging you. Or maybe, if he knew you weren't getting it, he might have tried a different way of helping you. Still, a good therapist would have probed a bit deeper to get a handle on what he was trying to accomplish with you.
I hope things improve for you.
Posted by sooshi on November 10, 2004, at 9:34:06
In reply to Re: Who has used CBT ? experiences.. please » Tepiaca, posted by yznhymer on November 9, 2004, at 20:03:52
Hi Tepiaca,
I would highly suggest you seek out another CB therapist. And get David Burn's book "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy", and find a therapist who will work along in the book with you. CBT will help you tremendously with your problem! Also, it looks like there is a thread at the top of Psycho-Babbly Psychology devoted to the Feeling Good book and therapy...go there and see what everyone has to say, too.
Good luck,
Sooshi
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 10, 2004, at 10:09:40
In reply to Who has used CBT ? experiences.. please, posted by Tepiaca on November 9, 2004, at 15:29:48
This guy sounds like a total quack to me. Run, don't walk, from this person! I've had great success with CBT. It does however require A LOT of work in order to change your thought patterns. However, once you invest the time, it falls together. But, I know I'll have to work hard at it the rest of my life.
CBT teaches that it is your thoughts which cause depression, anxiety, fear, etc. If you constantly berate yourself, etc. you WILL feel depressed. When I first started CBT, I thought no way in the world it would work for me, I hated myself so much. But, with time and hard work, it has worked. And I have done this all without drugs.
Please try to find another therapist!
Posted by alexandra_k on November 10, 2004, at 15:56:36
In reply to Who has used CBT ? experiences.. please, posted by Tepiaca on November 9, 2004, at 15:29:48
I agree, that is a terrible thing to say to somebody. In fact, I had this discussion with my DBT therapist a few years back, try this one:
DO NOT THINK ABOUT ORANGES.
You can't do it because in order to understand what you are supposed to do you have to think about oranges! It is called an ironic process, it is when trying to do something just makes the problem worse.
I think you should find somebody else.
Posted by Tepiaca on November 12, 2004, at 0:55:44
In reply to Re: Who has used CBT ? experiences.. please, posted by alexandra_k on November 10, 2004, at 15:56:36
Thanks for your responses guys .
Honestly I think this is not a bad doctor . He seems to have knowledge on the field . He studied at Harvard .
The main problem in my point of view , is that he is so busy and have so many patients that he can not pay attention to every one in the way we deserve it . Or at least this was my problem . I really felt uncomfortable and ignored about him.
Maybe what he told me was just the beggining of the CBT and he wants to spend many more appointments to teach me this terapy. By the way the book was written for him.Guys.... do you really believe CBT work better than AD ????
I simply can not understand how am I supossed not to think that somebody is watching me or talking about me . I sounds impossible to me ...
Do you use the CBT together with medicine or only the CBY ??
Thank u again for taking your time in answering my post
Tep
Posted by alexandra_k on November 13, 2004, at 2:26:54
In reply to Thank you guys =), posted by Tepiaca on November 12, 2004, at 0:55:44
> Honestly I think this is not a bad doctor .
You read that from a book that he gave you rather than him telling you that - is that right?
> The main problem in my point of view , is that he is so busy and have so many patients that he can not pay attention to every one in the way we deserve it . Or at least this was my problem . I really felt uncomfortable and ignored about him.My current p-doc (who is my t) is also really busy, and I know how it feels to be kind of passed over. Also CBT (with its focus on changing cognitions) can be experienced as invalidating.
> I simply can not understand how am I supossed not to think that somebody is watching me or talking about me . I sounds impossible to me ...
Can you admit that it is possible that sometimes you might be mistaken about people watching you or talking about you?
> Do you use the CBT together with medicine or only the CBY ??I find both together is helpful. Some of the medications may make it easier for you to change your thinking.
Posted by Tepiaca on November 14, 2004, at 1:25:39
In reply to Re: Thank you guys =) » Tepiaca, posted by alexandra_k on November 13, 2004, at 2:26:54
> > Honestly I think this is not a bad doctor .
>
> You read that from a book that he gave you rather than him telling you that - is that right?
>
mmm , nope ,actually he was the one that told me that , but It was also in his book when I read it
>
> > I simply can not understand how am I supossed not to think that somebody is watching me or talking about me . I sounds impossible to me ...
>
> Can you admit that it is possible that sometimes you might be mistaken about people watching you or talking about you?
Yes , I always try to think that they are not looking at me , I know I´m in a mistake. But I can´t avoid it . It´s like telling a squizophrenic that do not listen to the voices he hears.>
> > Do you use the CBT together with medicine or only the CBY ??
>
> I find both together is helpful. Some of the medications may make it easier for you to change your thinking.
>
>What if I use an Anti-anxiety medicine with CBT . How would I know if the responsible of an improvement is my mind thinking correctly now or maybe it is just the effect of the anxiolitc.
Thanks
Tep
Posted by JenStar on November 14, 2004, at 14:11:48
In reply to Thank you guys =), posted by Tepiaca on November 12, 2004, at 0:55:44
hi Tep,
I think it's cool that you logically KNOW that people aren't talking about you. That's a great start. I know it's hard to make the leap from KNOWING it to FEELING it...hopefully therapy can help!Here's what I do when I feel that people might be staring at me. I know this is a much more minor complaint, but it works:
I remind myself "I'm not THAT interesting, different or exotic to look at...chances are those people won't even remember seeing me tomorrow!" That helps.
I mean, I'm not trying to dis myself (I AM interesting, of course!) -- but from the outside there's nothing to gawk at, really. Unless you're a supermodel or you wear a 2-ft-high mohawk hairdo, or unless you're wearing a cloak made entirely of green grass, or unless you're wearing a darth vadar mask to the grocery store....you really will sort of blend in.
Even people with disabilities, wheelchairs, broken arms, bad hair days, ratty clothes and nervous tics, super-high heels, spinach-in-teeth, too much perfume, just the right amount of perfume, pretty faces, nice hands, shiny hair, great butts, and B.O. fit in. I can't remember anyone I saw at the post office or grocery store this past week, although I know I saw tons of people.
I know that paranoia can be very disabling...and I hope that your doctor can recommend a medication that might help. Good luck to you! :)
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2004, at 19:46:21
In reply to Re: Thank you guys =) . CBT experiences » alexandra_k, posted by Tepiaca on November 14, 2004, at 1:25:39
> mmm , nope ,actually he was the one that told me that , but It was also in his book when I read it
Hey Tep. Sometimes CBT is experienced as invalidating because it seems as though the message is that the problem is all in the way that you are thinking and so if you would just change the way that you are thinking then you would be ok. While there is clearly some truth in that it is not terribly helpful to be told that, it is far more useful to learn some skills around HOW one is supposed to go about changing ones thinking. I have found that CBT is most invalidating when the clinician is busy and or rushed. Could you tell him your take on what he said and what you read? He might find it helpful to see your take on it. He also might be more helpful in the future because of it.
> Yes , I always try to think that they are not looking at me , I know I´m in a mistake. But I can´t avoid it . It´s like telling a squizophrenic that do not listen to the voices he hears.
Yep, I hear you. While there isn't really much that one can do about hearing voices, there is a lot of work that one can do on how one interprets the SIGNIFICANCE of those voices, however. For example, whether one believes that the voice is infallible, whether one must act on what the voice is saying etc.
I dare say that people do look at you and talk about you at least sometimes. But whether you think that they are constantly judging you or mocking you or plotting against you is on a par with how one interprets the significance of the voices.
> What if I use an Anti-anxiety medicine with CBT . How would I know if the responsible of an improvement is my mind thinking correctly now or maybe it is just the effect of the anxiolitc.
You won't really. I would say that an antipsychotic may be more beneficial. That together with CBT may help you interpret the significance of others looking at you etc. in a more positive light. Both together may have a more dramatic effect than either taken individually.
Posted by Tepiaca on November 16, 2004, at 1:49:28
In reply to Re: Thank you guys =) » Tepiaca, posted by JenStar on November 14, 2004, at 14:11:48
> hi Tep,
> I think it's cool that you logically KNOW that people aren't talking about you. That's a great start. I know it's hard to make the leap from KNOWING it to FEELING it...hopefully therapy can help!
>
I hope so too ! , I really want to make an effort to this could happen
> Here's what I do when I feel that people might be staring at me. I know this is a much more minor complaint, but it works:
>
> I remind myself "I'm not THAT interesting, different or exotic to look at...chances are those people won't even remember seeing me tomorrow!" That helps.
>I have tried that too , but I can´t say it helps in my case :(
> I mean, I'm not trying to dis myself (I AM interesting, of course!) -- but from the outside there's nothing to gawk at, really. Unless you're a supermodel or you wear a 2-ft-high mohawk hairdo, or unless you're wearing a cloak made entirely of green grass, or unless you're wearing a darth vadar mask to the grocery store....you really will sort of blend in.
>
> Even people with disabilities, wheelchairs, broken arms, bad hair days, ratty clothes and nervous tics, super-high heels, spinach-in-teeth, too much perfume, just the right amount of perfume, pretty faces, nice hands, shiny hair, great butts, and B.O. fit in. I can't remember anyone I saw at the post office or grocery store this past week, although I know I saw tons of people.
>
> I know that paranoia can be very disabling...and I hope that your doctor can recommend a medication that might help. Good luck to you! :)
>
> JenStar
It is so disabling :( , It has taken my life away. However I don´t want to give up , I wanna try everything . There must be something that can give my life more sense . At least to be at the 60% of my social capacity.
I know there is a combination of medicines that can help me . This together with terapy . I hope my quality of life improves one dayThank you , really thank you for your thoughts :)
Tep
Posted by Tepiaca on November 16, 2004, at 2:08:13
In reply to Re: Thank you guys =) . CBT experiences » Tepiaca, posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2004, at 19:46:21
> > mmm , nope ,actually he was the one that told me that , but It was also in his book when I read it
>
> Hey Tep. Sometimes CBT is experienced as invalidating because it seems as though the message is that the problem is all in the way that you are thinking and so if you would just change the way that you are thinking then you would be ok. While there is clearly some truth in that it is not terribly helpful to be told that, it is far more useful to learn some skills around HOW one is supposed to go about changing ones thinking. I have found that CBT is most invalidating when the clinician is busy and or rushed. Could you tell him your take on what he said and what you read? He might find it helpful to see your take on it. He also might be more helpful in the future because of it.
>
> > Yes , I always try to think that they are not looking at me , I know I´m in a mistake. But I can´t avoid it . It´s like telling a squizophrenic that do not listen to the voices he hears.
>
> Yep, I hear you. While there isn't really much that one can do about hearing voices, there is a lot of work that one can do on how one interprets the SIGNIFICANCE of those voices, however. For example, whether one believes that the voice is infallible, whether one must act on what the voice is saying etc.
>
> I dare say that people do look at you and talk about you at least sometimes. But whether you think that they are constantly judging you or mocking you or plotting against you is on a par with how one interprets the significance of the voices.>
I accept it Alexandra , I´m a very stubborn person . Maybe this time I´m thinking that CBT does not work based on the fact that during 8 years I have tried to control this erroneous thougths with every positive idea that have come to my mind but It has been useless . So I feel like If I had already tried CBT using all the positives thought . And if this did not worke , then CBT won´t . This is the way I think , but I also know CBT has to be something more complicated than just having positive thoughts .
> > What if I use an Anti-anxiety medicine with CBT . How would I know if the responsible of an improvement is my mind thinking correctly now or maybe it is just the effect of the anxiolitc.
>
> You won't really. I would say that an antipsychotic may be more beneficial. That together with CBT may help you interpret the significance of others looking at you etc. in a more positive light. Both together may have a more dramatic effect than either taken individually.
Why do you think an AP could help me ?
do you think Psychosis is involved in Social fear ?I must mention that the first drug that help me
was Zyprexa . And believe me, I tried many many drugs before .
>
Posted by alexandra_k on November 16, 2004, at 19:32:55
In reply to Re: Thank you guys =) . CBT experiences » alexandra_k, posted by Tepiaca on November 16, 2004, at 2:08:13
> I accept it Alexandra , I´m a very stubborn person . Maybe this time I´m thinking that CBT does not work based on the fact that during 8 years I have tried to control this erroneous thougths with every positive idea that have come to my mind but It has been useless . So I feel like If I had already tried CBT using all the positives thought . And if this did not worke , then CBT won´t . This is the way I think , but I also know CBT has to be something more complicated than just having positive thoughts .
Sure. I think that there is some stuff around thinking through the worst possible scenario as well. I am not sure what the problem is, whether you think it is that you are being negatively evaluated by others or what. If that is it then you could do some work on why it is so bad if people do negatively evalauate you etc. I think that it may be helpful for you to discuss your concerns about CBT with your p-doc. It may also be the case that while CBT alone couldn't help, CBT in conjunction with an appropriate medication may.
> Why do you think an AP could help me ? do you think Psychosis is involved in Social fear ?Anti-psychotics aren't only prescribed for psychosis, they also assist with sleep, anxiety etc. I am on one, but I'm not psychotic (far as I know) :-) I guess I said that because I am very wary of anti-anxiety medications that are potentially very physically and psychologically addictive. There isn't that problem with anti-psychotics, on the other hand and so it is just my personal opinion that one would be better off with an anti-psychotic if possible.
Any way, I hope things improve for you. Keep in touch.
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