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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I think that training must make a difference on whether a T will make any kind of physical contact. For instance, I have dealt with an LPC who hugged quite a bit. Particularly if I was very emotional. I'm not talking about some huge embrace - just arm around the shoulders for a couple of seconds. Plus, she also had tons of family pictures in her office.
Now, I'm seeing a social worker who gives absolutely no contact and there is not a single personal item in her office. While she is a very nice person, I just don't think she's very warm. I mean, I'm not wanting to be held or anything - but sometimes if I'm distraught, the reassurance of a simple hand on my shoulder would be nice.
Why the difference? Anyone know if the training is different?
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 1:52:11
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I don't know that it's specific to one licensing authority or another. It probably has more to do with an interplay of a therapist's particular training (school, supervisors, professors), personality traits, experiences, and theories of how therapy works.
My therapist says he used to hug quite a bit, but the changing climate made it unwise to do much touching with clients. So with him it's probably experience.
I've gotten really comfortable with emotional holding. So much so that his occasional touch (shaking hands, hand on arm on way out door) means far less than the holding he is able to do with his voice and his posture, etc.
Posted by shrinking violet on August 31, 2004, at 11:32:02
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » Skittles, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 1:52:11
My T is a clinical social worker, and we've hugged about 3x in the past year that I've been seeing her. The first two were quick semi-hugs; the first after a particularly hard incident after which I felt betrayed by her, and on my way out she called me back and held out her arms. The next was a full-embrace after I broke down in session for the first time, and the next one was similar to the first. Each hug was initiated by her; I would be afraid to ask for one, even now knowing that she does tend to give them.
I think it depends on the T (personality, training, style, etc) and the client, and the client-T relationship; each of those factors are vastly different from person to person and relationship to relationship.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 11:57:18
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
If my T even hugged me once I would look for it always. And if I didn't get one I would wonder what I said or did wrong. And probably have much anxiety over it. I would be distracted during sessions either waiting for the hug or thinking about the hug.
It's best he doesn't hug. Too many transference and daddy issues involved with me and probably for many clients. That and the sexual harrassment thing.
Posted by shortelise on August 31, 2004, at 12:05:54
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I shake hands with my T and that's it. I would be shocked if he touched me. It would cross boundaries.
He's a psychiatrist.
ShortE
Posted by wheeler on August 31, 2004, at 12:59:48
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I have been seeing my T for 3 years. Last year when I was having trouble 'holding' on to our connection between sessions she thought it would be a good idea if we came out with a ritual that we would do at the end of our sessions. Basically that meant that we would hug at the end of the session.
For a while it was an automatic thing, but now, for the most part, it only happens when I initiate it. Although there are still times, like when I have a pariculaly difficut session, she'll initiate it.
It still is hard for me to hold on to our connection in between sessions, but I'm usually able to look back on the hug and feel a little better.
- wheeler
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 18:43:11
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by wheeler on August 31, 2004, at 12:59:48
My T has never touched me at all. No handshakes, no hugs...it would be weird if he did it now. I think some of it is training. Not a particular school of though per se, but rather the faculty's own ideas. I remember arguing with a faculty person about self-disclosure. She was adamant that you not even reveal whether or not you are married, but duh, I wear wedding and engagement rings...it's pretty obvious. Of course she wears something that is not necessarily so obvious, so I suppose she could get away with the "what would it mean if I were married? question, which I said would offend me.
Anyway, I think a huge majority of it is the clincian's own boundaries and beliefs. I have hugged a client once or twice, but I don't make a habit of it. Once was initiated by the client, once by me, if I remember correctly. When I worked with older adults in a nursing facility, I hugged a lot. It just depends....
Good thread,
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 20:07:44
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I think it may come down to personal preference. Some clinicians may not be comfortable with it, in general, or with respect to a particular client. A lot of clinicians are probably a bit fearful they will be sued, especially male clinicians with female clients. Some have ideas about it being okay if the door is open, or it being okay if it is in the hallway or somewhere where there are witnesses. I wouldn't like to be hugged by a male clinician (well, perhaps I would but I don't think it would be good for me at all). I have been wanting to ask my female T for a hug, but I am a bit too afraid to. I have only hugged one clinician before, and that was in our last session together before she left the service. She said, 'do you want a hug'? But I don't think she expected me to want one, and she seemed a lot suprised when I gave her one. Maybe it is because I have issues with eye contact, maybe this is a bit bizzare, but to me eye contact is more intimate than a hug. But then, depends how you hug I suppose.
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 20:07:44
Hey, I have those same eye contact ideas! My therapist has given up for the most part, and only asks me to look at him for specific reasons. I go through most of therapy with my eyes closed, or at best looking out the window or at his shoes. I think I looked at his shoes more at the old office though. At the new office the distance between the chairs is tricky to work out the right angle to look at shoes, and if I'm not careful I wake up from concentrating on whatever I'm talking about to discover that my field of vision includes his crotch. And even though I'm not actually *looking* at his crotch, that's nearly as bad as eye contact.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
Oh, no way!!! My T really hates it that I won't look at her. I ask her why it is so important to her, and she mutters something about bonding.
I would love it if we could get a couch and I could lie down with my eyes closed. Really, I don't want to think of her as a person too much -in the sense that I censor what I say because I am concerned about what she may think of me. I would rather just 'think out loud'. But that is a bit too 'out there' for her, so there it is.
Posted by caraher on August 31, 2004, at 21:31:22
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
Hah! - just commented on hugging in another thread. I've never been hugged by a T and think that it's probably best that way for the most part.
As for eye contact... yeah, that's a huge one with me. One T early on asked me what was so interesting about my shoes. I really wasn't aware of it before that. He didn't really do much with that, though. I moved on to someone with a CBT orientation and we worked heavily on that, both within sessions and outside with assignments to make eye contact, say hello, things like that. I still have to remind myself a lot to make more eye contact with people. It brings up a lot of issues for me - I feel like it's too bold for *me* to look in someone else's eyes. Can we detect any self-esteem issues here? ;)
I think it's worth paying attention to in therapy, especially if you have shyness problems in general
Posted by lucy stone on August 31, 2004, at 22:36:09
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
>
> I would love it if we could get a couch and I could lie down with my eyes closed. Really, I don't want to think of her as a person too much -in the sense that I censor what I say because I am concerned about what she may think of me. I would rather just 'think out loud'. But that is a bit too 'out there' for her, so there it is.
>
>You've just described psychoanalysis. Have you ever considered it? I am doing an analysis and finding it very helpful.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by lucy stone on August 31, 2004, at 22:36:09
> You've just described psychoanalysis. Have you ever considered it? I am doing an analysis and finding it very helpful.
Oh wow, good for you. Yes, in a sense I would be very keen to do it. But I have a history of BPD and someone or other said that we have a tendancy to regress and become psychotic under analysis :-(
I would like to do it one day though, perhaps that could be a goal for me, to get well enough to be able to do that!
I don't mind a bit more direction, though. I like questions because sometimes my mind will just range and I need a question for something to say. Shame I can't answer them with my eyes closed, or with my eyes on the ceiling, though.
How long have you been doing this? I am really interested in what your sessions are like.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2004, at 18:18:30
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
Why can't you answer them eyes closed? My eyes are closed at least half the time during sessions, and I sit up facing him. :)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 18:45:26
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2004, at 18:18:30
Well, I do but this has become a bone of contention between me and my T. I try to look at her briefly and smile when she greets me in the waiting room, but once we are in the office with the door closed that is the end of the eye contact for me. I prefer to close my eyes, but I think that freaks her out rather as she is afraid that I'll dissociate or switch. Can't look at the ceiling without craning my neck up.
I try to focus on my shoes or a little bit of the floor, or something to her left or right. I do try to smile and stuff, but I don't like to look at her.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 1, 2004, at 18:51:07
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
I'm in analysis, too, and thought I'd just add my two cents' worth of views!. Analysis is the most thorough, excellent treatment that a person with BPD could undertake. The idea that people with that particular diagnosis would get worse in analysis was very widely believed years ago, but analysis has changed tremendously, and in many ways is now designed to really repair the basic defect in BPD, which I believe has to do with difficulties with emotional regulation and interpersonal attachment. The analysts are very interactive now; it's entirely possible to do only part, or even none of it, on the couch. If eye contact is an important issue which you would like to deal with, you might want to use a part of your sessions sitting up and exploring your fears around it in depth. It is true that analysts rarely, or never, bring up topics themselves; however, they are very responsive to what you say. You really have someone right there listening, understanding and responding to you in a way that you have never had before.
If you decided to do it, you could go to a Training Institute, where the cost would be flexible enough for even a student. Like Lucy, I am very glad that I went into analysis- it's helping a lot. ( I have complex PTSD because of abuse).
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:40:37
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » Skittles, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 1:52:11
Dinah,
Holding with his voice is a new concept for me, but it feels right. It seems that's what my T did for me, whether he attempted to do so or not. Is this holding with attitude rather than physicality a real concept, or one that we're engineering with our reactions? I mean, are Ts trained in this psychic holding concept? I'm just confused.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:51:12
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by wheeler on August 31, 2004, at 12:59:48
Sorry for posting again, but reading Wheeler's post I was reminded that last week I had a job interview that ended in a hug. It was wonderful because this person and I just connected, even though it was the first time we'd met. I honestly don't know if that's her regular style, but she initiated it and it felt wonderful. So real human being-like.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:55:34
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
I'm with you guys (girls) on the eye contact. I used to look at my therapist's shoes and his walls a lot. Sometimes the ceiling. I guess he's used to that... maybe that's why he looks wherever he wants and tends to forget that I might have eyes to see too. Funny. Very funny. LOL.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:58:58
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
Eye contact=bonding? Interesting, as I used to look into my therapist's eyes a lot in the beginning, then when I made the decision that this therapy was bad for me, and I had to stop going, I started looking away a lot. I always looked at the rug in the beginning actually. I guess it was somewhere near the middle of the relationship that I actually had the nerve to look into his eyes ... then I completely lost it. Would Calvin say "kaplooie"?
Posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 0:36:29
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:40:37
I think they receive training in techniques that create the effect. I don't know if they call it that. :)
I don't analyze it too closely. It's one of the things that I prefer to think is magic.
Posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » Susan47, posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 0:36:29
I maintain eye contact unless I retelling a memory or reading something. Then I look out the window. I need the eye contact sometimes to stay in the room. I think I'm trying to see what he is thinking.
Here is something weird: I've been seeing him for 15 months, give or take. When he gave me a picture last month, I noticed he was wearing glasses. I thought, wow, he must leave them off during sessions. or wear contact lens or something. Nope. He has had on his glasses (they aren't all that noticable, wire rims) every session. I'm sure he has always had them. I guess I just look into his eyes so straight on that I stopped seeing them. I should tell him that. Except he would probably wonder what it means that I didn't see/remember them.
Laughing at myself -- Again!!
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 3, 2004, at 13:45:53
In reply to Eye Contact, posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
My T would never allow me NOT to make eye contact. The few times I have avoided his eyes, he tells me to look at him, "Laurel, look at me." This doesn't happen often however since I am big on eye contact in everyday life and he has the most gorgeous brown eyes I have ever seen.
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:23:34
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 3, 2004, at 13:45:53
Ew ew ew my therapist had the more gorgeous brown eyes too. Do they all come from a special gorgeous brown-eye factory???
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:25:10
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:23:34
Oh my, a Freudian slip; I should've said "most" not "more" in about post. How hilarious!
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