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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
We have been having a discussion (under "Ruffled my Feathers"), above, which has turned to meaningful interactions- the kind one wouldn't forget- between our therapists and ourselves. I posted two - one fun and comforting, the other alarming and scary, and so won't post another, but would anyone else like to join in and share something that meant a lot to you? I would personally love to hear others' experiences, as no two therapist-client pairs are ever the same, and the things that mean a lot to us are unique to each of us, and to the unique relationships we develop with our therapists.
I write down my "best moments" and turn to them often when my T. goes on vacation. Since so many T's seem to be away at the moment, maybe it would be a comforting topic!
Posted by Dinah on August 14, 2004, at 23:20:50
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
I'll give it a shot. It's probably silly little things tho. Nothing really important.
There was the last day at his old office. He was moving the furniture the next day, so this was it. The weather was bad, and the office shut down about the time I got there. They had been calling and cancelling the sessions. And I asked him if he wanted to go home. He told me that he knew how important his office was to me, and that he wouldn't do that to me on my last day there. So I think I was his last appointment in his old office, because he went home after too.
Around the same time, I suppose he was feeling emotional too, and probably was well disposed to me because I understood that his office wasn't just a space. But he really relaxed around that time. The drawl that he has pretty much eradicated appeared quite a bit. And I know when he drawls that I've reached him as a person.
There was the time when we were hammering out a difficult spot in our relationship. I was insisting that I could feel something negative from him. He was insisting that was my perception, not reality. Then all of the sudden, he broke and admitted he had always had trouble with dependent women. That my dependence did put him off a bit, but it was his issue and he would work on it. And he did. His negative attitude did get better and he never referred to it again. I referred to it again a few times, and he never denied it but he never said anything else about it. Not too long thereafter he stopped fighting my dependence, which helped me cling less to him.
I had been pretty awful to him the first five years of therapy, and I had finally admitted my attachment to him and decided to trust him. But during those five years I had berated him, quit several times, told him he could rent his office to me without him in it because it was the office that helped. I didn't need him. Several months after I had changed, I noticed that he was still bringing up things I had said and done before and was waiting for me to act the same way. I sat him down and asked him to look at the me that sat across from him. I told him my attitude towards him had changed, and that the things he was saying had no bearing on what I might or might not do any more. I asked him if he could ever stop seeing the me that had been and start seeing the me that was in the room with him right now. And he started trying. He admitted that I had hurt his feelings in the past, but that he would try to start rebuilding his trust in me. And he did try to start rebuilding his trust in me. I think he *does* trust me now as much as I trust him.
There was the time just the other day when I was trying hard to explain something that didn't make a lot of sense. My eyes were closed but when I said one phrase I could feel him breathe in and lean back. I realized that he understood. He really understood! Not because I was explaining myself so well. But because of the years of work we had done together. Mind you, he didn't agree, but he was able to work from that understanding which helped the conversation a lot.
Then there are the little times where he teases me like my daddy does. He knows the psych phrases I hate, and sometimes he uses them lightly with a laugh, so that I smile too and over time they become less hurtful.
Nothing big or momentous. Nothing earth shattering.
I suppose the biggest moment was the first time I spoke. He was totally cool. Didn't miss a beat. Knew what was happening but didn't make a big deal of it, because that would have scared me off. And he's been that way ever since. No big deal at all. Just the way things are. Totally matter of fact. I was rather disconcerted and shaken. But his manner made it a lot easier for me.
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 15, 2004, at 0:29:24
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2004, at 23:20:50
Thanks so much for sharing those times with us, Dinah. Yours aren't *smaller* than anyone else's (mine, for example). Don't you think all these meaningful moments, even though *small* by any standards, are amazing forces for change over time?
I remember the wonderful story of his wanting you to have one last time in the old office- he just knew how much it meant to you! It seemed as if he has been so understanding and respectful of you throughout. A big factor in the success of all of this did seem to be various misunderstandings, irritations, ruptures and REPAIR- the things that probably didn't happen with your mother. From your posts, I've gotten the idea of a therapist who is willing and able to change and grow along with his client- just like all the exciting things one can read about in the "relational"psychiatric literature. And, at times when he was a bit behind- like when you began to connect and trust, five years in, and you knew it before he did- he listened, and changed his own approach so as to be effective for the new part of you which was emerging. What accomplishment could be more wonderful than becoming a person who really wanted to be securely attached, and would keep fighting for that- and then actually becoming able to do it!
I have a slightly different situation from you: the adult me really trusts and adores my T, but the child parts didn't at all in the beginning, and are just starting to even be willing to open their mouths- they are so distrustful that I tend to be ashamed of them. He often reminds me that I, too, need to be compassionate towards the child parts who endured so much abuse and loneliness. I am learning, kind of slowly, that it's very important for me to respect and honor their views- they have good reason to feel the way they do.
Thanks for getting the thread off to such a good start!
Posted by gardenergirl on August 15, 2004, at 8:18:07
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 15, 2004, at 0:29:24
Wow, I had to really think about this one. I think maybe because I feel a bit disconnected from him while he's gone. But I also am not very good about remembering sessions after. I talked to him once about that, and he didn't seem concerned. He didn't think there was anything signficant about it. But then again, it seems like it takes repetition of insight before I believe it. I wonder if that would improve if I remembered more?
Anyway, what I *did* remember was the session after I passed my cinical competency exam. I told him that I had been tempted to call him, because I knew he would be happy for me. And that at that moment I realized I wanted to call him, I thought "holy transference, Batman!" (literally, that's what I said to him!) He laughed at that, but then said he was so pleased because it was a sign that my "authentic true self" was coming out from behind defenses. That felt really good. Although I also wondered what defenses he sees, because he doesn't point them out.
There was another time I don't remember so well. But I was upset about something and talking and talking. He offered an insight that just shut me up. It felt so profound and so right in that moment I was speechless. That doesn't happen very often. :) Now here's an example of the memory thing. I think sometimes I process in the session on such an emotional level that what I get out of it is really non-verbal. I couldn't even tell him what he said immediately after. I couldn't really even describe how I felt. It was just such an intense non-verbal emotional momemnt that it was like it stopped time.
Dang I wish I could remember what he said!
Good thread,
gg
Posted by rubenstein on August 15, 2004, at 10:23:44
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by gardenergirl on August 15, 2004, at 8:18:07
I am rarely at a loss for words in therapy. But there have been those times when I am totally unprepared for what he has to say and am left speechless with much to think about. I am a die-hard perfectonist and I can still remeber the day that he asked me what Grace meant to me. It is the only time that I almost came closs to crying and was at a clear loss for words. I mean I thought I knew what the word meant... but my mind wouldn't let me express it as I was unable to allow myself that presence (religious or not) in my life.
The subject was brought up last week in a different context. He asked me how I would be different if I could forgive myself and allow grace in my life. It was the only time that I have come close to crying. It was a great moment for me, and even though painful at the time I am so thankful for his never-ending quest to make me express myself in other ways than through my music.
Posted by Aphrodite on August 15, 2004, at 10:24:02
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
It was five months into therapy, and I had yet to say what was really wrong -- I just went in each week, chipper and strong, like it was another schmooze meeting at work. I was his last appointment that evening, and it started to gently snow, and I kept gazing out the window. It relaxed me and altered my state of consciousness. Looking out the window, tears started pouring down my face for the first time, and I said quietly that I was profoundly sad and alone and often wished to die. When I looked over at him, he had the most sincere and sympathetic look, and he said, "Yes, I know. I can feel the suffering when I'm around you like every breath must be painful." So, I knew he had been seeing through my act all along. It was a huge relief to know I could drop the act although it took another few months for me to actually do so.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 15, 2004, at 10:30:22
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
Hi all! Have been on vacation and am finally back. Feels good to be back home!
I have had many wonderful therapeutic moments. And they all involve the same elements - handshakes and laughter. There are times where it seems all we do is laugh and when you are laughing with another person, you feel so connected to them. And every once in a awhile I'll get a handshake in the middle of a session as a congratulations for accomplishing a therapeutic goal. These very unexpected handshakes are the best, especially coming from him who has very strict boundaries.
My last few sessions before I left for vacation were pretty great as well. He told me that he cares for me (as his patient)and he told me that he is interested in ME. I have grown up exagerrating many things in life, fearful others will find me boring or uninteresting. This hyperbole was the only way I got attention from my parents. HE sees right thru this and assures me that he is interested in the real me, no exagerration required (this all stemmed from my innocuous comment of "I hate hot weather."). I left that session on cloud nine. I couldn't believe it.
Posted by rubenstein on August 15, 2004, at 10:35:49
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 15, 2004, at 10:30:22
I am so glad you brought up laughter, I forget how much my therpaist and I laugh in session and it brought a smile to my face. (((()))))
Posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 14:21:06
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by gardenergirl on August 15, 2004, at 8:18:07
I haven't been in therapy that long (only one year, which I guess it considered a fairly short period if time), so I don't have many "bests" (more like a lot of little "nices") but one moment stands out above most others.
It's ironic, because this moment stems out of a really horrid time. Back in January I was strongly encouraged by my T and med doc (who are part of my treatment team at Uni for an eating disorder) to check myself IP for a few days. Now, I knew it was because she feared I was suicidal and I had some med issues (abnormal EKGs, blood pressure, etc) from my eating disorder which were found around that time (I was ticked off that she and the doc took the road that would protect themselves and the school first rather than just trusting me to be okay for the 3-day weekend, but that's another issue....). Anyway, I (stupidly?) put my trust in them to know what was best for me (something I NEVER do....I wonder if I was delusional *lol*) and checked myself IP when a bed opened up at a local mental hosp. I, naively, thought it would be more of a medical admission rather than a psych one. But nope, I was locked in a ward, and I freaked right the hell out. I cried for the 3 days I was there (literally) and I refused to eat (no one cared); the only good thing was I lost another 3 pounds. :-/
Anyway, I knew my T had left her home number with the hospital in case they or I needed to call her (assuming they would call her for me). By the second night, I was almost literally climbing the walls with fear (that they'd never let me out) and mind-numbing boredom. So I asked the nurse to call my T. Finally, the nurse wrote my T's number down on a sheet and gave it to me (I felt guilty, feeling like I had info I shouldn't) but apparently she couldn't be bothered to call for me. So, I called my T at home. I bawled....she wasn't aware I had actually gone (I told her I was going, but she said I didn't sound very reassuring, and she told the hosp to call her if I was admitted which they didn't). She took some time out of her evening to talk to me, not upset that I called her at home or had gotten her number. As we hung up, she said to me (and I'll never forget this):
"You're in my heart."
Okay, not much maybe, but it meant so much to me that she'd say that, and something in her voice told me she meant it. I could feel it, sort of, you know? So, I was able to hang up and go back to my room and cuddle under the blankets, wrapping her words around me, so I could fall asleep. The next day, she called there to find out how I was doing (which I hadn't expected either). Later, as we processed the incident, she told me she'd never heard anyone cry so hard on the phone before and her "heart ached," and she was glad I had called because by Sat night she was "crazy with worry."
She said it to me a second time last month, just before I started a partial outpatient ED program. It touched me again, maybe in a way no one has before.
So, that's my (too-long) story.
Posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 15:37:25
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2004, at 23:20:50
Your post was beautiful, thank you for sharing these moments.
I hurt so much from the relationship I had with my T I can hardly stand it at times. Reading your positive stuff brings up a lot of my pain; it was really meaningful. Those moments we see each other as real people, not just T and Client, are really wonderful. I had them, too, in the beginning, and did everything I could to destroy that. Don't know why. Ah well.
Posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 15:43:43
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 14:21:06
Reading your best and worst moments posts, it sounds like they're all closely wrapped together. Remember the good things you feel.
Posted by daisym on August 15, 2004, at 22:30:04
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
This is really hard because there have been a lot of great moments. But the one that means the most, is an interpretation he made for me around one of my responses to being abused. I have carried this particular thing around for years, thinking it was just so...bad, I guess. After finally telling him about it, he calmly looked at me and said, "why would you expect a 10 year old to have words for that, let alone know how to deal with it?" It changed everything. I had never considered my actions in the context of being a child. I had always looked back with the adult overlay. It was like a huge weight being lifted.
Posted by Klokka on August 15, 2004, at 22:50:32
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
I don't remember the details of any of these very well, but here goes anyway, in some sort of chronological order.
The first I remember was about two months after I started seeing my pdoc, after I'd had a rough week. I decided it was about time I started disclosing a bit about my problem with SI and the suicidal thoughts I'd been having lately. I don't remember what exactly it was that he said, but I left feeling reassured and confident that he was there to help and would. He also explained what he would do if he was ever convinced that I really posed a danger to myself, which helped me trust him with the more difficult stuff - the guidance counselor at my old school overreacted and brought my parents into it, which was nothing short of a horrifying experience.
The second may have been in that same session, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. The guidance counselor I'd been seeing at school (not the same as the first) was normally very supportive but had recently insinuated that I was exaggerating/making up all of my problems, and I was upset and confused over it. (Especially since that was a very out of character thing for her to say.) I not only felt deep shame for being the way I was, but for not being able to change things and be done with it. That year I was leading a Christian group at school and was trying so hard (and failing) to hold it all together to be there for and an example to the girls in said group, and so I also felt conflicted because wasn't I trying to be okay after all? What was the truth of the matter? I told my pdoc about this when I saw him, and he said something along the lines of, "No, I don't think you're making it up. I think you're suffering far more than you let on." I still felt like I had to justify myself, and said, "When I left this clinic last year (I didn't have the best experience - meds that had unbearable side effects and another pdoc who never talked to me), I never wanted to come back. I wouldn't be here if I was making it up." He replied, "I know." I had been holding so much back in therapy at that point, much moreso than now (which is still quite a lot,) and it was reassuring to know that not only did he believe me when I said I was hurting, but that he saw past the act, too. It helped so much to ease the shame I felt about the original comment.
Another time was after a very rough patch in the therapy. He forgot my phone number at the clinic and so did not call me back when I was in crisis, he was away for two weeks shortly after, and when he returned he concentrated mostly on a list of questions and it all left me convinced that my earlier trust had been wrong; he didn't, and couldn't possibly, care, and I was convinced that I would be better off not bothering with people ever again because I was nothing but a burden and they couldn't even be paid to pretend to care. After the session with the questions, I went to see the guidance counselor (the one in the previous example,) and she managed to convince me to calm down and discuss it. So I ended up writing a letter telling my pdoc how I felt about those two incidents, and a sense I had that I couldn't help but hold back emotionally (this is still the case, unfortunately) in therapy. I was so terrified that he would be furious and yell at me when he saw it, saying of course he couldn't care and I was expecting too much and being manipulative. I almost didn't give him the letter, but managed to force myself to when he asked me to talk about something I wrote about - I couldn't find the words, but knew where they were... I about died when he insisted that it be read aloud by either one of us, and found that time almost unbearable, but he reacted very well. He admitted that things like the missed phone call did happen and I couldn't expect them not to, but also said that he knew it hurt a lot and would try to work well enough so that I could trust him again. He explained the reason behind the questions he asked, and overall was very supportive and most importantly handled it calmly.
The last thing I can think of isn't so much one moment, just something that came up every time I expressed worry that my college schedule would make me unable to see him next year. (I preregistered and had my schedule verified at orientation last week, so although I can only see him half as much for sure, I can be sure that at least that will work out.) It's nothing particular which was said, but just his willingness to do what he could to work around the schedule, even if it was a little inconvenient. I'm so used to having to juggle things like mad to make everyone happy, and often had to go without events I wanted to attend or rest I sorely needed, so it was comforting to know that this time I wasn't the only one who was trying, and I wouldn't have to go without unless circumstances were really unfortunate.
Hm, so much for not remembering much about these, I think. :) There are more, but they're mostly little comments here and there and I don't think I'd be able to explain too well why they were so comforting.
Posted by shortelise on August 16, 2004, at 1:22:56
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
I had a moment with mine where I felt so safe and so calm and in a place where nothing was going to leap out from nowhere and shake me.
Oh, that was nice.
ShortE
Posted by pegasus on August 16, 2004, at 11:26:51
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
I had a lot of good moments with my old T, but for some reason the ones that stick out seem relatively trivial.
One summer we spent a lot of time talking about careers, and "hypothetically" what I could do if I were going to change careers. There was a local Master's program that interested me, and my T suggested that I prepare application. Not to actually submit, but just to see what it felt like. So I did, and I submitted it, and I got into the program (and am currently taking classes). Later he admitted that he was "secretly" hoping that I'd choose to submit the application. I said, "I know". And he replied, "I know." And then we smiled at each other. That connection felt really special.
Another time, after a crazy missed connection, we were talking on the phone about why I hold things back in therapy. I said, "Because I want you to like me." He said, "Don't you *know* that I like you?" I said no, that I couldn't tell. He said, "Peg, I *really* like you." And he sounded so genuine. I think he meant it. :)
pegasus
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2004, at 18:53:33
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by pegasus on August 16, 2004, at 11:26:51
These are all wonderful! Each person's connection has a unique feeling of its own-reflecting the truth that even a therapist never has the same relationship with any two of his/her clients- each one has it's own special life and precious moments and qualities.
Posted by thewrite1 on August 16, 2004, at 23:28:29
In reply to Best Moments in Therapy, posted by Pfinstegg on August 14, 2004, at 22:38:10
It was the end of January. I was having to leave therapy due to a move for what I thought would be forever. I wasn't ready for that. I asked my T to bring in something that belonged to her, a pen from her desk or a photograph or something. I was terrified to ask her, but felt I really needed something. As soon as the words were out of my mouth, she said she would and that she thought it was a great idea. We both have collections of a specific animal. She brought me a piece from hers and even had it wrapped for me.
The last session we had was hard. I was beside myself with grief. I cried almost the whole session, barely about to speak. I had hugged her at the end of tough sessions before, but this time I went to hug her and she held me for a long time and when I finally pulled away, she reached up, put her palm against my cheek, looked into my eyes, and said, "Be Well." That's what carried me through the three months break we had before I found a way to get back.
Posted by Lulula on August 17, 2004, at 19:21:48
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by thewrite1 on August 16, 2004, at 23:28:29
My T knew how much I hated cigarette smoking ... not that she smoked, but some clients would. One day I walked into her office and said "I smell smoke." She launched into this "do you think I would have someone smoke in my office" kind of questioning. "How does that make you feel?" Within minutes, the fire department burst into the office ... there was a smoke fire on the roof.
I laughed so hard. I think she did too (happened a long time ago). I think she learned to sometimes to take my comments at face value.
Posted by tinydancer on August 18, 2004, at 13:13:05
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by thewrite1 on August 16, 2004, at 23:28:29
Wow, there have been so many! I feel like just knowing my T has been such a mind expanding experience that the world I inhabit doesn't look the same to me anymore. But best moments...Well...The first time he saw my self injuries on my arm, he stayed very calm, and looked a little sad and said, "Oh..." He wasn't shocked or disgusted or angry. It was like he understood so well what caused this, and looked upon me with a kind of sadness that said, "I'm so sorry you had to do this to yourself to make it through." That meant a lot to me.
We've had a lot of breakthough discussions, which have been very intense for me. When I'm with him, I feel like I've met my match. He is so damn intelligent and funny and being together with him is like the meeting of the minds. I feel so intellectually level.
Laughing is always a lot of fun. Also if I'm telling a story and I suddenly glance up to him and he's got this huge, encouraging smile trying not to laugh out loud.
He's got a very intense presence, and every single time I visit him, I sort of get whacked in the head with it and my little heart goes pounding. I even told him this much to my delight, he didn't even get embarassed, he just took it in stride, like always...:)
Posted by tabitha on August 20, 2004, at 0:49:17
In reply to Re: Best Moments in Therapy, posted by tinydancer on August 18, 2004, at 13:13:05
She said I look more approachable, brighter somehow. I told her I was inspired to do this by the ginger monkey that was born at the London Zoo. The monkey is born bright orange then turns black after 6 months. It's supposedly so that its mom can find it more easily. So my T said it's a good thing, it's like I'm making myself more visible to potential nurturing. Aw shucks, isn't that sweet?
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 1:34:10
In reply to Re: my T likes my new haircolor, posted by tabitha on August 20, 2004, at 0:49:17
Cool, I'm glad she likes it and said so. My T never comments on my hair or appearance. Probably best or I'd get self-conscious. Now, are you planning on turning it black in six months? ;)
I did my roots finally. woo hoo! Also, left the highlight stuff on for shorter time, and it came out better. More coppery rather than brassy.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2004, at 11:08:42
In reply to Re: my T likes my new haircolor, posted by tabitha on August 20, 2004, at 0:49:17
Ah, sounds like the pod people are starting to release her! And she's got good taste too. :)
Posted by Susan47 on August 21, 2004, at 18:15:15
In reply to Re: my T likes my new haircolor, posted by tabitha on August 20, 2004, at 0:49:17
Tabitha, I really like the way your T described "more visible to potential nurturing". I've always wondered what makes us want to have tattoos and purple hair (I'M NOT BEING DEROGATORY ABOUT THIS, I HAVE A TATTOO). Pssst. We want to be nurtured. That's really quite beautiful.
Posted by Susan47 on August 21, 2004, at 18:15:54
In reply to Re: my T likes my new haircolor, posted by Susan47 on August 21, 2004, at 18:15:15
This is the end of the thread.
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