![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:13:10
I'm sorry. I was thinking after I posted that my post was more a rant about my own frustrations than it was about support, and I apologize for that. But it's a major source of distress for me and I've battled it for some time in therapy.
> Wow, Dinah! You haven't told your husband. Isn't that difficult to bear alone? I definitley feel more shameful about this dx than I did when I got the BPD dx years ago. But I also have been in the "system" so many years that there is less and less of a need to conceal it from those around me, it only makes my pain and suffering larger for me to bear.
I only openly admit to OCD and depression at work, etc. They know about my "hypomanic reactions" to certain medications, because they had to. It was too obvious. But introducing the idea of DD-NOS would have everyone thinking Sybil and I just don't want that. For one thing, that doesn't adequately describe my condition. My therapist has had several DID clients and worked with them in an inpatient setting as well, when there used to be wards for the condition. And he says he never knows what box to put me in because I'm definitely not DID. But I'm more than the normal splitting of work self from home self from playing with my son. So that puts me in the wastebasket DD-NOS. The only book I've fond that describes (even close) my own experience is "The Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout.
I don't find it difficult at all not to tell anyone. The fallout from telling would way outweigh any support I might get. I'm even afraid to tell anything here. Even doctors who should know better react with a bit of.... I don't know what to call it. But no where near as matter of factly as my therapist. It makes me feel bad.
>
> > I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
>
> I noticed you used the phrase ego state before. What does that mean actually? So you don't have any alter personalities and never did, or they have all integrated after you achieved co-consciousness?I have no desire for integration. I resent the very idea. The "emotional" side of me would think it would really mean letting the responsible, grown up, rational, emotionally limited shell of a human who everyone thinks of as "Dinah", who goes to work, and who interacts the world take over. The "rational" side of me wants nothing to do with the messy emotions. I'm pretty firm on not wanting integration and my therapist is respectful of that.
I dislike the word alter because the "emotional" side of me would claim that that was the original Dinah and the "rational" side was merely a "front" that developed the illusion of separate consciousness - like Data on Star Trek? The "rational" side would insist that since that's the part that largely that interacts with the world and is present most of the time, the "emotional" side is just a troublesome leftover of what it chose to leave behind. So each side claims core personality status and neither wishes to be called an alter. The term ego state is much preferred. Separate centers of consciousness would be even better, but more unwieldly. Separate levels of consciousness is what my therapist would say. And that works out just fine with me too.
> > And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.
>
> What do you mean that he never asks to speak to some "other" part of you? How would he do that? I feel like my T treats me with respect and absolutely like a normal human being but he naturally wants contact with my alters too.
>
My emotional self was only able to communicate by bolts of emotion for many years and I would just find myself doing things I didn't understand or having reactions that made no sense to me. I spoke in terms of me and me back then, but the emotional self just started directly communicating a year or so ago. My therapist never asked before then, because he didn't want to encourage an iatrogenic phenomenon. My therapist never asked after that because he never really makes a big deal about it, and asking would make a big deal of it. He just talks to whatever ego states presents himself. He talks to them in a different way, in the way that each is likely to respond to by appealing to, say, logic or emotion (or self interest) as needed. But he would never dream of asking to talk to whoever wasn't there. For one thing, I would probably resent that. For another thing, it's just not that easy to comply. I can't shift back and forth on request. My emotional self usually shows up for therapy. My rational self, of course, feels no need for therapy.> I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions, I was just a little confused by some of the things you said and really want to understand what you meant!
>
>
I don't blame you for being confused. I don't think I'm the typical presentation of anything. Hence the DD-NOS rather than DID. But I hope I didn't offend by venting my own frustration.
Posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
I want to jump in here, if I can.
I don't have DID but I since being in therapy I definately have a couple of voices going off. The biggest differentiation for me is my "adult" voice and my "child" voice. They are co-conscious but really hate what each other wants. I would liken this to Dinah's emotional/rational states.
The biggest difference for me is around the expression of need for nurturing. The child part has been unleashed by therapy and she *demands* a lot of my Therapist. She wants to be heard and has a lot of hard things to share. The adult wants to contain her, 1) because her stuff is too hard to hear 2) her stuff is so old, it isn't relevent to the adult's life anymore and 3)her emotions make it really hard for the adult to function so that nobody notices the suffering. Plus the child is frightened that sharing the old, bad stuff will overwhelm my therapist, resulting in abandonment, so she wants a lot of contact. The adult deals with the abandonment fears by keeping an emotional distance and talking about practical problems that need solving.
So, not two diffent personalities, but two different states and ages. I find it all very disconcerting, especially talking about myself in parts. I try not to do that too much but it is impossible to describe the circular arguments that go on in my head without talking about the two voices. I definately don't talk about different voices outside of therapy...or here.
My Therapist has asked directly to talk to the child part. Before that, I talked about "her" or what she wanted but the adult always edited out most of the needy stuff. The first time he asked, it was really awful for me. "She" spilled out all this stuff and "I" couldn't get her to shut up. At the next session I asked him "why did he do that?!" He told me she was "right there." He could feel her in the room with us and thought it was important to let her talk. It took me weeks to forgive him. But I did not feel disrespected at all. And I doubt I would have let her out if he hadn't asked and then worked hard afterward to let the adult part know that what the child said was OK.
I guess everyone's experience is really different and maybe therapy naturally has us examining ourselves in parts and stages. I'm sure having "true" DID is much harder than what I've experienced. I appreciate this thread and I've learned a lot.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
I guess it's possible that at some distant past point in therapy he asked to speak to the part who... whatever. But if so, it was so long ago I can't remember.
Now he would no sooner request to speak to a different part of me than he would ask me to leave the room so he could speak to another client. :)
And I would view it just about the same way.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
Or think I'm deranged? Or my therapist's favorite word (tho not about this), troubled? Or as an oddity or as a freak? It really isn't a big deal, or at least in my case it isn't.
I was scared to tell, but I didn't think I should continue be ashamed of me.
Posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
> Or think I'm deranged? Or my therapist's favorite word (tho not about this), troubled? Or as an oddity or as a freak? It really isn't a big deal, or at least in my case it isn't.
>
> I was scared to tell, but I didn't think I should continue be ashamed of me.I'm sorry, Dinah, I just read your posts. I'm certainly not scared of you at all. I don't think anyone would, should, or could be! I feel very vulnerable myself right now because I've written so much about some really personal things, that I'm starting to let my imagination get carried away with why some people haven't replied to this thread. I think about the people who believe that there is no such thing as multiple personalities, and worry that someone thinks I'm lying or making it up for attention.
Anyway, the main reason I haven't responded is because I couldn't process anymore information about it. I just became afraid especially because not a lot of people had posted in the thread. I am just sitting on the sidelines to see what happens and who else pops up with something to say.
You should definitley not continue be ashamed! I shouldn't either. It's a long road but I think that it is acheivable with a T you can trust.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:10:38
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
You're describing exactly the same fears I have, Tinydancer. I *know* I shouldn't be ashamed, yet there seems ample reason to be scared to death. Even my therapist doesn't think I should disclose to my family or at work. He thought Babble already knew. He thinks I should tell my psychiatrist, but no way am I doing that. My psychiatrist is one who believes in ignoring "dramatic" behavior so that it goes away. And he mistakes not mentioning it in front of him as "going away". Anyway, it's not a medication issue so there's no need for him to know.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:11:18
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
Posted by gardenergirl on April 11, 2004, at 11:21:15
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:10:38
Dinah and tiny,
I'm not scared of either of you now or before. I'm awed by how much you have shared, as I can imagine it would feel like a huge risk given the stereotypes and lack of knowledge people have about dissociative disorders.I haven't added anything to the thread, really because I am just sitting back, reading, and learning so much. Plus, the thread seems to be flowing well.
But I guess we are usually better at offering support. So thank you. I can tell this was difficult. And it certainly hasn't changed how I feel about either of you. Except perhaps to add to the awe I have for the ability to adapt to and cope with trauma.
(((Dinah))) and (((tiny)))
gg
Posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 14:40:24
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by gardenergirl on April 11, 2004, at 11:21:15
Dinah and Tiny,
I also haven't responded to this thread because I don't feel like I have the knowledge base to add much. I am not scared of either of you and I certainly don't think either one of you has anything to be afraid of. You have both been very brave in opening up here the way you have. You are both to be admired in the ways you handle you internal lives.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 14:40:24
And I apologize. I realize that my question put people on the spot and I didn't mean to. I was just feeling vulnerable and scared and wanted to get any fallout over with quickly.
Silly of me, I know.
Posted by antigua on April 11, 2004, at 15:49:27
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
Absolutely not. I know how hard it is to share and I'm really impressed that you felt comfortable to do so. You are a wonderful person.
antigua
Posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:37
In reply to Thank you, GardenerGirl and » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
I don't think you were silly at all. You took a chance by sharing and then got nervous about it. Looking for reassurance is perfectly natural, IMO.
Posted by Jai Narayan on April 11, 2004, at 19:00:23
In reply to Re: Thank you, GardenerGirl and, posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:37
I think my mother had the same dx. She seemed like so many people wrapped into one. We, her children, saw a different person.
I am so thankful that you answered so many questions and created clairty where there was confusion.
I am glad that you approached the topic with such grace and ease. I feel more comfortable because of that.
What an outstanding dialogue between DaisyM and Misshoneycrunch....I am still in awe.
And Dinah, it took courage to share....I totally honor that.
I love the honesty on this site and the incredible sharing.
Thanks
Posted by pegasus on April 12, 2004, at 14:03:03
In reply to This has helped me immensly...thank you, posted by Jai Narayan on April 11, 2004, at 19:00:23
I also want to say thanks for everyone experiencing DID or related phenomena who shared here. I just now read this thread (sorry, I've been swamped and reading things only spottily), and I'm blown away, in a good way.
Part of me is a little jealous of you having these different personalities or states that handle different things. It seems so much more organized than what I experience, which is so often contradictory and jumbled up. I don't mean to minimize your suffering, by any means. I just wanted to share that positive piece of my reaction, because it sounded like you were worried about people having negative reactions.
All of me is in awe of you guys and how brave you've been to explain things in so much detail! I've learned a ton, and am not scared or turned off or anything bad. I feel bad that you worried about that! I think it'll be helpful in understanding folks in the future, and being supportive to you all. I have immense respect for your honesty and openness here.
pegasus
Posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
In reply to Thank you, GardenerGirl and » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
I am in a nasty litigation and the employer has gotten access into all my psych info (hospitalizations, psychiatrist notes, and therapist notes). My attorney has sense acted very funny. He keeps cancelling my appointments and said to me, "I understand you are going the a rough time." Anyway, I feel like I am being blown off and even his staff look at me differently. I have in my hx dx of MPD. The opposing atty talks to me really soft and slow. I feel like I am being treated totally differently since they have accessed my charts.
I feel emotionally violated. I feel like they are treating me like they think I am crazy. I am not crazy. I am really angry as Hell. My records had detailed of sexual abuse. Folks, if you think your records are confidential, think again. In the work comp system, all records are open game. It is the worst treatment I have had since being an adult. It seems like the only people who understand my pain are those who regularly see a therapist.
I just don't know what to say, but this is triggering rage in me. I feel like they are treating me like a freak, because they know I was sadistically abused as a kid. It just makes the abusers powerful again in my eyes. **** on them. I am totally enraged about this violation of confidentiality. I feel like I am being treated like a felon.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 12, 2004, at 20:18:57
In reply to Re: being treated like I am crazy, posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
I'm so sorry you are going through this. How awful to have someone you are relying on start treating you different. No wonder you are angry. I wish I had the opportunity to set your lawyer and his staff straight about people with mental illness. I wish there was more I could say.
(((shadows)))
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2004, at 20:55:54
In reply to Re: being treated like I am crazy, posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
There ought to be a law.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on April 12, 2004, at 22:36:16
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, Shadows. :( » shadows721, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2004, at 20:55:54
Hi everyone.
Fallsfall just told me this thread was going on, and I thought I would come over and check it out.
I'm especially interested because I also have DID/MPD. My heart goes out to all of you with legal problems, problems convincing T's, problems with families, etc.
In my case, the one person in my life that needed the most convincing was me. It took alot of waking up to things that had been going on that most other people would never have happen to them. It needed to be pointed out to me that most other people don't have people call them by other names; that most people don't have over a dozen distinct handwritings; that most people don't find things they didn't write in their journals; that most people don't have money dissappearing from their checking account and wind up with things they didn't buy sitting in their homes.
The pieces of 'evidence' that tipped the scales were evidence of severe injuries I suffered as a child. My parents know nothing, or so they say, about them. There were also a number of incidents with friends, things in my journals that couldn't be explained by other means.
As near as I can tell, there are 29 people in my mind. I haven't met half of them. Some of them have been scary at first. It's never fun to find out that you have no idea of who you are, what happened to you as a child, that things that you thought you understood in your past were really quite different from the way you believed.
I still sometimes have doubts about having DID, but when I do, all I need to do is talk to my daughter, and she'll leave no doubt.
It's hard on people around you. It's frightening to those who might have hurt you or let it happen. It is tough to learn that people who you needed to trust could have done unthinkable things to you when you were most vulnerable.
I guess that the best thing though is knowing that things can get better. There is hope. I'm looking for that hope.
Thanks for starting this thread.
Dee.
Posted by rs on April 13, 2004, at 5:49:31
In reply to Re: Just found this thread., posted by deirdrehbrt on April 12, 2004, at 22:36:16
Thanks so much for sharing. Like said do not post much but here often. Your post was very supportive here. Especially the denial and finding out about others and the pain we all went through. Again thanks.
Posted by tinydancer on April 13, 2004, at 7:56:07
In reply to Re: Just found this thread., posted by deirdrehbrt on April 12, 2004, at 22:36:16
Dee, does any of what I describe sound familiar? Sometimes I feel so alone in my world, I feel like I must be the only one. I would really be interested in hearing how you reacted to my posts about describing day to day experiences.
Posted by Penny on April 13, 2004, at 13:44:00
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
(((Dinah)))
Never ever ever would I be scared of you, or think you are anything other than the wonderful person I know you to be.
As you know, I haven't been frequenting the board too much lately, and so just noticed this thread. Wasn't following it as I don't feel I can contribute to the overall knowledge - I know next to nothing about DID or DD.
I can understand your not sharing with your family, and I'm most glad your T 'gets it', b/c that's what's most important for you. And I'm glad you have decided to not be ashamed of you, b/c I can't see a single thing you should be ashamed of...
{BTW - a little aside - I was thinking about you the other night at my grandmother's, when I was watching a dog show on Animal Planet and saw some that reminded me of your babies... :)}
I learn so much from you, Dinah, and from the other posters on this board. I am glad to see so much response to tinydancer's post. I knew I had seen others (Dee being the main person who comes to mind) post about DID, so I knew tinydancer wasn't alone. By sharing your experience, Dinah, and others, you have (once again) helped someone else...
And I love you for it.
P
Posted by deirdrehbrt on April 13, 2004, at 18:33:14
In reply to Re: Just found this thread. » deirdrehbrt, posted by tinydancer on April 13, 2004, at 7:56:07
Hey Tinydancer,
Lots of what you mentioned seems all too familiar to me. I think that the DID is partly to blame for me no longer driving. I know that the major part is the hallucinations that I have, but there have been so many times that I dissociate in a major way while driving. One time, I set off, dropped some money in the toll, and when I looked out the windshield again, I was 100 miles away, having driven through Boston.
My daughter is quite used to asking me a question, and when 'I' don't know what she's talking about, she'll ask later. Sometimes I don't recognize VERY familiar people, like my kids, my brothers, in-laws, etc. Sometimes I'll be walking down a street, knowing that nothing of what I see is real. Time gets lost often. My journal is full of entries with many different handwritings. I never know if I sign for a credit card purchase if my signature will be accepted.
I've gone into a sandwich shop and been asked if I wanted my regular. My 'regular' was something I would never order. The person behind the counter, who I didn't recognize proceeds to ask me about my family. I've had complete therapy sessions that I didn't remember. I've been told I've been places, done things, said things, and not remembered it. Life is really quite an adventure with DID/MPD. It's hard to have friends being unsure of how you will behave in certain situations.
It also freaks people out when your reactions to situations that are so far out of what they would consider 'normal'. I have a very strange reaction to pain. I often don't feel it. I've been hit by a car, and never felt the pain, except for a slight burning on my shoulder. I just wanted to get away from all of those people looking at me laying in the street. It was hard to believe that the pool of blood I was laying in was mine.
Once, playing softball in the air force, I was hit across the face with the bat. I needed people to tell me that I was hurt. When they told me I was bleeding, I was very embarrassed. There have been lots of other similar situations. I always feel that I am being a terrible imposition on the people who are trying to take care of me. I feel like I've done something wrong by being injured. It's not alot of fun.
On the other end, sometimes things that need to get done without me ever remembering doing them.
Projects would get done at work, and I never remembered doing them. That is kind of the good part.
Well, that's how things are in my 'our' life, or at least some of the things.
Hope this helps.
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on April 13, 2004, at 21:17:17
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » Dinah, posted by Penny on April 13, 2004, at 13:44:00
Posted by All Done on April 14, 2004, at 0:47:41
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
Gosh, Dinah. I just peeked in over here as well. Haven't spent much time on this board at all lately.
I'm sure you realize, but let me remind you who your dealing with on these boards. So many intelligent, understanding, caring, and accepting people. There is no way anyone could be afraid of you and you have absolutely no reason to be ashamed.
I don't care how many personalities/ego states/alters you have, I don't think you're anything other than a wonderful person.
Be easy on yourself and take care.
L
Posted by milahra on April 14, 2004, at 8:00:58
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by gardenergirl on April 11, 2004, at 11:21:15
> Dinah and tiny,
> I'm not scared of either of you now or before. I'm awed by how much you have shared, as I can imagine it would feel like a huge risk given the stereotypes and lack of knowledge people have about dissociative disorders.
>
> I haven't added anything to the thread, really because I am just sitting back, reading, and learning so much. Plus, the thread seems to be flowing well.
>
> But I guess we are usually better at offering support. So thank you. I can tell this was difficult. And it certainly hasn't changed how I feel about either of you. Except perhaps to add to the awe I have for the ability to adapt to and cope with trauma.
>
> (((Dinah))) and (((tiny)))
>
> ggHear! Hear! I *totally agree*! I'm entering this discussion as well, but just this moment I won't take anything away from the chorus of admiration for tiny, dihah and others who have bravely engaged in this discussion.
I am delightged to know you all!
Tiny and Dinah, I too have had moments in the past in which I have felt afraid of others who did not post a reply. I associate it with people "looking on" and ready to mock me. That is what happened during at least one of the traumatic episokes which triggered my own dissociation.
I'd love for this converation to keep in tact, a kind of circle of those who *do* undersand and who can empathize as well as those whose open minds make them dear listeners and friends.
For now,
milahra
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.