![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 14:23:46
In reply to special request? Second the motion, Dr Bob (nm), posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 14:20:50
Posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 15:32:35
In reply to My therapist sometimes refuses to answer me, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 9:11:53
(Since I haven't been to this Babble Board long, you all may not know I ramble and rant. After this, though, you'll be forewarned.)
I've read all the posts, think there's a lot of good thought in this thread. It's hard to think of what I really want to say, so I'm going to cut and paste and respond to some of what's already been said. More rambly, but maybe more clear? We'll see...
From gardenergirl:
I think fallsfall made a lot of good points. I just wanted to add something. This is a self-selected group of people on this board. We are here to ask and answer questions. It makes sense that there would be a lot of questions about boundary crossings, because when it happens, it's confusing. You wonder if your sense of it is correct, and you want other opinions. When T's maintain boundaries, there's really nothing to question.
Response:That makes a lot of sense. All of us here belong to a specific subset of the larger group of All Those In Therapy. We're the ones who're willing to discuss these things on a public bulletin board behind our board names, and disclose personal details to strangers in the safety of semi-anonymity, and we're all computer literate enough to have found this board and figured out how to use it. We may also be more introspective, and thus more likely to question boundary crossing and other therapeutic issues.
From Karen_Kay:
You can make believe that you have some sort of "friendship" or relationship and you divulge all of you feelings to a stranger. A stranger who helps you sort things out. But in reality, there really isn't a friendship or realionship at all. Sure, you may be the favorite client, but there really isn't hope for much else in the future.
Response:
I don't see it that way. I see my relationship with my therapist as a real relationship, within preordained boundaries. I'll never invite her to dinner or a movie, I'll never babysit her kids, we won't get together for lunch, but it is a real relationship nonetheless. It's just that it exists within a limited set of boundaries to which we've agreed in advance. Does that make sense?
OOOH! It's a Formally Structured Relationship, how's that? I think that's what I'm trying to say.
More from KK:
And what's the harm in feeling special? Isn't that what everyone wants? I hope that he makes all of his clients believe that they are his favorite clients.
R:
Absolutely! And here's something from my Real World Experiences, that I think supports it. I used to teach computer classes, and I used to teach horseback riding lessons. Both involve a student-teacher relationship that somewhat parallels the therapist-therapee relationship. I know that a lot of my students wanted to believe they were special to me, my Favorite Student. And you know what? You wanna hear what makes it so peculiar? Most of them really and truly and sincerely and genuinely *were* my Favorite Student. Simultaneously, each of them was my favorite, I couldn't possibly have chose between them. I hope that's true of most good therapists, too.
From terrics:
We often talk about her family [many times she ties the discussion in with a problem I am having???], her hobbies,her mother [which again she ties in with problems I have with mine,]her past problems with drugs[I do not have a drug problem.] She has hugged me without my expecting it, and she has said she loves me.[that was when I was considering suicide.]
RR:
I absolutely possitively think that that's both boundary crossing and unhealthy for any sort of therapeutic relationship. It shocks me so much I can't even think of anything else to say about it, beyond that.
From fallsfalls:
I think that the profession has absolutes (i.e no sex). I think each therapist should know their own personal absolutes (For one, don't tell patients their marital, parental, sexual orientation status or age. For a different one, all of those may be OK to talk about, but they don't want to talk about things that happened in their childhood). Once those rules are established, I think that the therapists need to use their judgement every single day with every single patient to see if a particular response will be helpful to the client.
RR:
Absolute agreement from the peanut gallery, and a kudo for expressing it so well.
Thank you.
From Dinah:
But is it in our best interests? Really? Does it lead us to think that we have a different sort of relationship with our therapists than we really do? Does it affect our behaviors with them in an artificial way? Does it burden us with knowledge that we shouldn't be burdened with in a relationship that is entirely for our own benefit, with monetary compensation as the only benefit to the therapist. Are the rules really bad? Is it really good for therapists to bend them, or do we just like it?
RR:
Heheheh, that really is the question, ain't it? It's a good question, and one I think is worth exploring directly with our Ts. Are we both on the same page regarding this issue, at least, and what is the benefit to the patient from using this boundary or that one?
Personally, I want to know enough about my therapist to get a sense of what he/she will understand. Most of the information I perceive myself as needing to make that assessment can be found in the T's body language, clothing, speech patterns, etc. The few remaining, I may ask, or I may not, but if I do ask them I always preface it with a lead in like, "You know, I'd feel better discussing this issue with you if I were sure you had some experience or background that would allow you to understand it from my perspective. In order to reassure me that you will understand, I'd like to ask you [insert question here] If you're not willing to answer the question, that's OK, as long as we can discuss why I asked it and why you don't feel it's appropriate to answer." That way, when I do ask a question outside the boundaries we've established, something productive still comes out.
On the other hand, when I'm in the worst of a depression, often I just hold back without asking the questions or discussing the issues at all. Then, getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth.
(Digression: one therapist I saw briefly did tell me a personal story once, though: it was our last session, because I was moving away. One of the topics we'd worked on was my self image problems, and that I look so different from the rest of my family. One of those differences is that I have small feet for my height, and everyone else has enormously long feet. The T told me about her father owning a shoe store, and bringing shoes home for her. He knew that women with small feet were considered more attractive, and that most women wanted to have smaller feet, so he'd switch the labels in the shoes for her. She didn't know what size shoe she really wore until after college, when she discovered her feet were two sizes larger than the labels in the shoes from her father. That crossed the boundaries by my standards, but I'm still glad she told me!)
Back to Dinah's original post:
Did Clinton answering the boxers vs. briefs question really inspire trust?
When our son asks how much money we make, we answer that we make enough money to take care of him properly. That's all he needs to know. To know more is to put grown up things on his shoulders. And I think there is something trustworthy about a therapist who can do the same. Who can realize that there are things that we may want to know, but that might burden us if we knew. Even if it's not positive they'd burden us, even if we don't think they'd burden us, if it's possible they'd burden us, it's their job to have the strength to refuse to answer.
RR:
I agree and disagree. The Clinton observation is a direct hit. That part not only hits the mark, but it also gives a very, very concise illustration of the debate: does knowing something totally unrelated to the matter at hand add anything to the process?
The part about not wanting personal information from a T or pdoc, that one I struggle with -- fortunately I can come here and tug at it with you guys -- because some of my own unique pathology really is unique, aside from being unique in a larger sense. I have some physical problems that impact the psychological problems, and that makes it harder to define the limits of treatment in a lot of ways. On top of that, I have a lot of information that I want placed in context for reassurance, and that leads to larger issues of my need for reassurance, and all of it needs to be done without allowing my fluency to deflect the real emotions. For example, I've worked with animals on and off most of my life, give shots, question everything any vet tells me, loved Bio in school, and have read a great deal about science and biology and medicine and especially about issues surrounding depression. When I walk into a doctor's office, I want to get at least as much information as I'd get from a vet. In animals, the first rule is engraved in stone: when a behavior changes, FIRST rule out physical causes. If a doctor denies that as a good idea for people, too, I have a really hard time trusting that doctor. (OK, that's going off target, so I'll get back on track. Suffice it to say, I'm a real pain in the @$$ as a patient!)
So, I do want some reassurance that the T or pdoc is someone I can trust, and sometimes the only way I feel safe is asking a personal question. I try to frame it within the larger context, and I try to remain open to the idea that I may not really need to know the answer. Sometimes that's enough.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't ask my pdoc if he fantasizes about me, because I think it would be quite damaging to both of us. (You only know me through my typing skills or lack thereof. A lot of men find me very frightening in person.) I might, however, be inclined to discuss the question of disclosing to each other our fantasies. Does that make sense?
Oh, dear me, look what I've gone and done. Ranted and Raved for way too long. Here it is, for what it's worth. If anyone has any questions, please submit them in triplicate using the official form...
Posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 15:33:36
In reply to My therapist sometimes refuses to answer me, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 9:11:53
This is a great topic for discussion. Thank you for bringing it up.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 16:21:13
In reply to Rant in Response to All (very long), posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 15:32:35
Wow! That was quite some rant! But, I did enjoy it :) And I hope very much to see more in the future, if you don't mind.....
The thing is, that we, as clients, tend to see the relationship for more than it really is. Or am I wrong?? Or am I the only one? Is there something wrong with me??
Or maybe we don't? I am his favorite client, after all. And that's where I get throw off. Because I feel I run the risk of being needy. [And I am truly sorry if this is off target, but it has to do with the "relationship"] I fear that I don't have a healthy attachment to my therapist. That I am far too attached to him than I should be. That I have more invested in this relationship than he does (well, of course I do, this is only his job, and IT IS my life, for crying out loud!!!). So, I try to counter that with aloofness during sessions. And I think that perhaps he tries to counter my aloofness with his openness (???? possibly, maybe). So, it's a constant struggle. A tug-of-war of sorts. I continually keep him at arms length because I feel I have more invested in this relationship than he ever will, so I have so much more to lose than he does. All he has to lose is my beautiful face, my charm, and a paycheck of course. I have my sanity at stake. That's a pretty big risk to be putting in the hands of someone I've only known for a short amount of time.
His openness has a lot to do with my inquisitiveness. I'm rather known for asking endless questions. I'm also known for setting people up to fall into my traps, which he does. And I delight in the fact that he does it. But, it also makes me realize that he's human. He makes mistakes. He's entitled to. He also calls me on the fact that I'm rather manipulative (who? me?).
I do have a question though... Why not tell a client their age? I asked Bubba his age, but only because he kept mentioning that we were close in age, yet I'm so bad at guessing ages I finally said, "I can't tell if you're 25 or 40. How old are you?" What's the harm in answering if asked?
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 18:29:15
In reply to Rant in Response to All (very long), posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 15:32:35
Ok, I knew I had this information somewhere. K.S. Pope is the person who does a lot of research in this area, and he has a website. The following survey results comes from:
http://kspope.com/ethics/research4.php
Question Number 15. Telling client "I'm sexually attracted to you"
Results:
Occurance in your practice:
Never: 78.5%
Rarely: 16.2%
Sometimes: 3.5%
Fairly often: .2%
Very often: .2%
Is it Ethical:
Unquestionably not: 51.5%
Under rare circumstances: 33.1%
Don't know/not sure: 5.5%
Under many circumstances: 6.8%
Unquestionably yes: 2.4%Question #75. Engaging in sexual fantasy about a client
Results:
Occurance in your practice:
Never: 27.0%
Rarely: 46.3%
Sometimes: 22.4%
Fairly often: 2.4%
Very often: .7%
Is it Ethical:
Unquestionably not: 18.9%
Under rare circumstances: 15.1%
Don't know/not sure: 26.8%
Under many circumstances: 13.2%
Unquestionably yes: 21.9%Of course, 4.2% of those who answered the survey thought it was at least occasionally ok to disrobe in the presence of a client (question 78).
My research also shows that there is no ethical prohibition against telling a client that you are sexually attracted or fantasize about her.
I still have to question whether or not it's as therapeutically valuable, or if just would be nice to think it was.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2004, at 18:54:19
In reply to Re: Rant in Response to All (very long), posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 18:29:15
Dinah,
This guy sends out stuff on a list serv I'm on. It's nice to recognize the name. And he is a very good compiler of research. Now to the real reason I'm posting a response...
>
> Of course, 4.2% of those who answered the survey thought it was at least occasionally ok to disrobe in the presence of a client (question 78).OMG! I would run screaming from the room and straight to the telephone to report him to the ethics board if Bear should do this. I would also wonder what the heck is wrong with him as I can't imagine him EVER doing something like this, but still...4.2%?????
That's frightening. do they practice some kind of special nudist therapy?
Holy cow!
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 19:04:39
In reply to Re: Rant in Response to All (very long), posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2004, at 18:54:19
Well, it's a self report survey, so I doubt there would be any incentive to overreport. To be fair (?), 3.3% of that number thought it would only very rarely be ethical. Still.....
Posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 21:03:34
In reply to Re: Rant in Response to All (very long) » Racer, posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 16:21:13
> The thing is, that we, as clients, tend to see the relationship for more than it really is. Or am I wrong?? Or am I the only one? Is there something wrong with me??
>You know, I was thinking about this after my long post, and here's what I wanted to get across and I think didn't:
That the therapeutic relationship has defined limits does not make it less *real* than any other relationship. Those boundaries make it different, but not less real. It is still a real relationship in every sense, but one of the limits is that most of the flow goes in one direction. That is, we open up to them, we talk about our pains and our gains, and they validate those pains and gains, but do not offer up their own.
> So, I try to counter that with aloofness during sessions. And I think that perhaps he tries to counter my aloofness with his openness (???? possibly, maybe). So, it's a constant struggle. A tug-of-war of sorts. I continually keep him at arms length because I feel I have more invested in this relationship than he ever will, so I have so much more to lose than he does. All he has to lose is my beautiful face, my charm, and a paycheck of course. I have my sanity at stake. That's a pretty big risk to be putting in the hands of someone I've only known for a short amount of time.
>Absolutely. This is the Carousel of Trust I've been on with my pdoc for some time. Of course, I'm much more Complex than you could ever be, so mine's much more complicated than just the attachment. [blows on nails, buffs nails on lapel] Seriously, I have just started trying to deal with my trust issues regarding the pdoc this past week and it's really, really hard. I finally managed, after a special session with the T, to tell pdoc (why do I keep trying to type pdiddy?) that I mistrusted him. Nearly cried, nearly wet my pants in terror. It's a big issue, because T or PD, we're putting ourselves at risk. In fact, we are putting our SELVES at risk. That takes a leap of faith, and it takes a lot of courage.
>
> I do have a question though... Why not tell a client their age? I asked Bubba his age, but only because he kept mentioning that we were close in age, yet I'm so bad at guessing ages I finally said, "I can't tell if you're 25 or 40. How old are you?" What's the harm in answering if asked?
>
>OK, I cut out the manipulation part, for a couple of reasons, but I'll take this one on. It's another one about my pdoc, though not my T: my pdoc looks about 12. I know he can't be, know when he graduated from med school, but he looks very young. I've overheard conversations about him at the clinic, other employees giggling together about him, and one saying to another, "{{giggle}} you'd never believe it, but he's not nearly as young as he looks..." When I said something about thinking he was "significantly younger" than I, he looked at my age on the chart, and said, "um...no." (Wha?? You're insignificantly younger? Infinitessimally younger? You can't imagine ever having to admit to being as ancient as I am? Wha?)
That said, I don't necessarily think that knowing the answer to a question like that would be damaging. I just think that reviewing your reasons for asking the question in the first place can be of more long term value. (And I wanna know so much how old my pdoc is, you just don't know. Problem is, I know why I really want to know, and it goes back to the fantasy thing, and since I know that the fantasy is only a fantasy, that he will never in this universe lay an erotic hand on me, I really don't need to know the answer. See what I mean? I know why I want to know, and that helps me see that not knowing is OK -- especially since it gives me so much more flexibility in creating fantasy situations... yummmy!)
>Now for the short version of my manipulation rant: manipulate -- it only means to shape by hand. Shaping by hand can mean craftsmanship, artistry, many good things. There's a negative connotation attached to the word, but try to look at what it means constructively: you're trying to shape the world into what you need it to be. Whether that need is real or perceived, you are trying to improve your ability to function within your world. The point of being aware of manipulation is to learn to see when you're being constructive and when you're not, so that you can shape your world for your longer term benefit.
There. Good luck, and another Rant will be along soon, no doubt... (Since this isn't out loud, it can't really be called "verbal diarrhea," can it?)
Posted by terrics on February 1, 2004, at 21:51:14
In reply to Rant in Response to All (very long), posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 15:32:35
Hi Racer, Your ranting was very interesting. I enjoyed it. I do have opinions on this stuff, but am usually to lazy to post them. p.s. I know my therapist breaks all the rules, but I like her. She is hetero and I am not so we won't have that problem. Well thanks for the ramble. terrics
Posted by DaisyM on February 2, 2004, at 0:32:18
In reply to Re: Therapist honesty » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on February 1, 2004, at 13:22:32
I've read through this twice, trying to put into words what I feel. I'm not sure if my Therapist holds "tight" boundaries...he is not a blank slate and does answer questions like: yes, he has kids, he told me his sign (we were talking about my birthday) he told about an author he met that we both have read, etc. He has refused to answer questions though, but we explored why I asked and he tells me why he won't answer. We start and stop on time, but he encourages calls in-between as needed and extra sessions (these are paid for, of course.) But it feels to me like he knows how to be personable without being too personal -- does that make sense?
I also appreciate his humor and wit - and the fact that he appreciates my intelligence. I don't want someone who treats me either as immature or as unobservant. (He told me once that he was aware that I missed NOTHING.) But he doesn't tell me his problems, ever, and I wouldn't engage in "his sexual fantasy" conversation with him for a number of reasons but mostly because I want to keep him in the role of someone I respect professionally. Otherwise I would quickly move into the authority role, taking over as the one in charge, as the one teaching and leading and remove any vulnerability that might be present. Maybe the best way to put it is that he seems very mature and secure with himself so we can focus on me.
So, I guess I think that while each Therapist should be flexible about disclosure, they should know themselves and their personally selected boundaries very well and be consistant about adhering to them. I think a lot of the pain and confusion I've seen posted has to do with boundaries that move-- either suddenly tighten up or get too loose.
Dinah's right -- Disclosure should be done when it is either inconsequential or theraputic to do so -- but never lightly and without fore-thought. And it might be that we don't like it, it might be painful (Racer's analogy of hand-therapy - painful but necessary to get better) but ultimately it is what we need.
It makes me think, in some ways, of being the boss. You want everyone to like you, you'd like to be their friend but most of the time you can't be. You have to "enforce" the rules. This doesn't mean that we don't apply the rules individually but most of the time the rules were created to protect both of you. Ignoring the rules in favor of "being nice" usually backfires...lessons learned the hard way.
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2004, at 14:44:58
In reply to Re: Therapist honesty, posted by DaisyM on February 2, 2004, at 0:32:18
That was so well stated and clear, and I agree absolutely. This is something that I struggle with a lot: I'm the trainer, I'm the one with the answers, I'm the one in charge, I'm the one who can't delegate because it wouldn't be done right if I didn't do it myself. In order for the therapy to be successful, I have to be willing to accept my vulnerability to the therapist, thus allowing her to play her role in the process. And that's damned hard for me to do, because I am The Boss and In Charge.
Ironically, that's what my last session was about: being able to cede control, and the fears involved.
So, here's my developing theory on this matter:
Ethical standards mostly fall into a sort of bell curve, where many things are appropriate under many circumstances, and a few things are always appropriate or inappropriate no matter what the circumstance. That means that for some of us, the PowerChargers amongst us, the therapist might be most effective by enforcing the boundaries quite strongly. For someone more inclined to be passive, stretching the boundaries might be more productive.
I liken it to child rearing. A child who is given strictly enforced boundaries, with immediate and substantive consequences for crossing them, will learn to feel secure. That's because the parent is acting as a sort of external conscience, exerting control in order to help the child learn to control himself or herself. Not control in the micromanaging sense, but control in the good sense -- like having working brakes in a car. A good parent gradually widens the boundaries as the child grows, so that the security the child has learned can grow into self confidence and an ability to adapt to new circumstances, out of which process comes autonomy, and a healthy adult.
A good therapist, in a sense, is being a Good Parent. For the individual who is locked in the helpless stage, the therapist helps define boundaries and assists the patient in learning to live within them comfortably; moving towards reassuring the patient when the time comes to start getting more independant. For another individual, someone who's learned not to trust anyone else, and that our needs can only be met by our own actions, the same Good Therapist might be more inclined to act as a safe depository for our trust, while strictly enforcing the boundaries in order to minimize our instinct to push on every potential weak spot.
OK, that got longer than I intended, and much more convoluted than I had intended. Boiled down, I agree with what you said, and see in it a starting point for defining a good therapeutic relationship.
Phew, I'm out of breath...
Posted by terrics on February 2, 2004, at 16:06:16
In reply to Excellent! » DaisyM, posted by Racer on February 2, 2004, at 14:44:58
Daisy and Racer seem to have rapped up what a good therapeutic relationship should be like. Yet in a strange and very loose-boundry way I think my therapist is good at what she does, but she sure as heck does it differently. terrics
Posted by DaisyM on February 2, 2004, at 16:19:49
In reply to Re: Excellent!, posted by terrics on February 2, 2004, at 16:06:16
And, we are back to Fallsfall's point of something for everyone is what we need, not the "one-size fits all."
I'm glad she is good for you. That is what counts.
Posted by fallsfall on February 3, 2004, at 17:31:36
In reply to Excellent! » DaisyM, posted by Racer on February 2, 2004, at 14:44:58
A very wise friend told me the other day:
"Please don't take this amiss, as it is meant in all kindness, but I do think you have a strong tendency to want to "fix the therapist" -- ultimately un-useful, except as it provides clues about you. Who you really want to fix is your parents and the trauma from way back then -- that's the core work. Turns out only thr trauma from way back then can be fixed. Very harsh reality."
Maybe we should start a "Fix The Therapist Club" - the FTTC!
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2004, at 17:48:56
In reply to Who is in charge? » Racer, posted by fallsfall on February 3, 2004, at 17:31:36
I dunno. My therapist has improved immensely under my tutelage. (grin) Even he admits it, though in slightly different terms.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 3, 2004, at 19:59:03
In reply to Re: Who is in charge? » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2004, at 17:48:56
Weeelll. not to brag or anything but if anyone's taking home an award for helping improve their therapist... Well... I WIN... Gimme gimme gimme... He was expaining something to me today and I grunted and he said, "Well, you sound displeased." I said, "Heck yeah I do. You make me sound so clinical. Like you just read 'my case' straight from a text book." He never before realized that he did it. Hello, pin a bow on my head.. I'm going to the county fair..... I've helped future clients today to not feel like some clinical case when he later refers to how they aren't &^^*& able to form emotional attachments... And yes I'm still a bit upset about this... :) (But, to make matters worse, after I pointed it out he tried to retell me in a different way so it didn't sound quite so clinical. Well, I already understood it the first time he said it. He didn't have to tell me a second time... I was just upset that he told me in such a way that I was rather "removed" from the situation, as if we were talking about someone else. But, to retell me again! Oh, the nerve!!! Hello, I understood the first time. I'm not so dense that I can't understand you when you say it in a removed fashion.... Don't give me bad news twice!)
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2004, at 20:27:12
In reply to Re: Who is in charge? » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 3, 2004, at 19:59:03
Ahhh, but I taught mine how to handle clients when they quit so that they feel free to come back.
And patience. Lots of patience. :D
Posted by Racer on February 4, 2004, at 9:31:31
In reply to Re: Who is in charge? » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2004, at 20:27:12
OK, obviously not a T here, but one of my clients "fixed" me once, and I'm forever grateful to her. As a riding teacher, I'm pretty tough. I will tell you you're not working hard enough, and I will tell you that the horse is not a sofa you get to lounge on. Oh, and some days I get so frustrated at getting students who've been allowed to move ahead faster than they should simply because their old teachers never took the trouble to ask them to work harder.
So, one day, one of my students said to me, "You know, you're a really good riding instructor. Just try to remember to tell us what we're doing right..."
That was like the 2x4 to get my attention. It made me a better teacher, and I've been profoundly grateful to her ever since. I'd bet we do the same to our Ts more often than we think, and I'd bet they're grateful for it, too.
(Acting on that theory, I always tell my T when she says something that really resonates for me. Maybe it doesn't help, maybe it does, but at least she gets more clues to working with me from what I point out.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2004, at 2:39:04
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, A special request?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 12:47:38
> Do you know of a guest expert who might be able to throw more light on this subject and might be willing to make himself available?
FWIW, I've been working on this, and there's someone who's willing to give it a try, but we haven't yet worked out exactly when it would be...
Bob
Posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 22:44:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, A special request?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2004, at 12:47:38
As sure as we are all different, so are our Docs and therapists. I find it takes a long time to really tell if your therapist is the right one.
I have had good ones, bad ones. The worst one was one that I made the mistake of sharing some very deeep dark secret that was used to blackmail me into following paths in my therapy that I was NOT AT ALL IN AGREEMENT with. Directions that almost ruined my health physically and emotionally. If I did not cooperate, this therapist reminded me of how damaging this information could be.
I am finally free of this one. I lived in fear for too long though and what I thought was so terrible I see now was not at all what I should have feared so much. I have learned however, don't tell your therapist EVERYTHING.
Posted by fallsfall on February 12, 2004, at 10:50:15
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, A special request?, posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 22:44:57
There are evil people in the world, and some of them are therapists. It really stinks when the people we trust the most (therapists, parents...) let us down so hard. I'm truly sorry that you were hurt.
But, at some point, I think we have to make a decision of whether we will protect ourselves from every possible danger. I think that if we do that, we won't be able to live. Sort of like the only way to be absolutely sure you won't get a virus on your computer is to disconnect it from the internet. I think we do need to be wary, but I think that we will only truly live if we take some risks.
I hope that your experiences in the future are more positive.
Posted by Parisss on February 12, 2004, at 14:55:52
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, A special request? » Parisss, posted by fallsfall on February 12, 2004, at 10:50:15
Thank you for your thoughts. I actually wish I could have hit an undo button on that last post. It was very bad advice for most people. You need to reach a point where you can trust your therapist and if you are to be helped, probably the deepist darkest area is what SHOULD be told.
My situation was unique and I should not have used it to tell others to keep secrets.
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2004, at 17:04:18
In reply to Re: guest expert, posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2004, at 2:39:04
We'll try to treat them gently. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2004, at 2:44:56
Hi, everyone,
I'm pleased to announce that Ms. Schmidt, a faculty member at the Institute for Clinical Social Work and the Child and Adolescent Psychotherapy Training Program at the Institute for Psychoanalysis, both here in Chicago, has agreed to be our guest expert here for the next week.
If you have any questions for her, post them here. Just put "Schmidt: " at the beginning of the subject line to let me know it's for her. I'll be the intermediary.
Discussion about the how this works -- or doesn't -- is welcome, but should take place at Psycho-Babble Administration.
OK, any questions? :-)
Bob
PS: The participation of a guest expert is intended to provide information and not advice. Her responses should not be considered diagnosis or treatment. She may suggest an option to consider, but do not infer that her professional opinion is that you personally should choose that option. What specifically to do for yourself or a loved one you should discuss with a knowledgeable professional in person.
Posted by Lyrical13 on February 22, 2004, at 16:22:59
In reply to PBP Guest Expert: Erika Schmidt, LCSW, posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2004, at 2:44:56
I have concerns about my younger sister who is 15. I am 34. (we're technically half sisters... same dad, different mom). Within the past year or so she has been dx'ed with a mood disorder. The first symptoms were panic/anxiety but she has since experienced severe depression. The doc has also mentioned bipolar. (MHx note: Several members of our dad's family have battled with depression/anxiety. After 13 yrs of thinking I was depressed w/ GAD I have recently been dx'ed BPII)
Back in Nov. she was talking/writing about suicide and she showed me her arms... there were scars all the way up to her shoulder where she had cut herself. They looked pretty old. I asked her how long she had been doing it and she said for 2 or 3 years. We have a very good relationship and have "sister night" every week. She is on Prozac and Trileptal. The day she showed me her arms I urged her to call her doctor. I also told her mom that she needed to see the doc immediately. They contacted her doc and he raised the Trileptal.
My concern is that she is still struggling. Falling apart during the week that her best friend was out of town. Still seems down but says she's "OK". She quit going to counseling because the counselor made her mad. She isn't seeing a psychiatrist. Her pediatrician prescribes her meds but she doesn't see him for regular visits. I have expressed my concern about this to her and to my parents. I have urged her to talk to someone else (new counselor) and to think about finding an adolescent psychiatrist. I even researched docs/counselors in the area that specialize in her type of problems. I gave the info to both parents (for some reason my step-mom thought we should keep this all secret from my dad.... I finally told him what was going on b/c a few months had gone by and my s-mom hadn't followed through on anything....she is basically trying to be the "cool mom" and not make her daughter mad. Anyway, I told my dad what was happened with HIS daughter and he thanked me and asked for more info. I gave it to him and haven't heard anything else yet.)
I guess what I want to know is if you have any other advice for getting sis some help. I am afraid she will do something to seriously hurt herself. I think I have done all I can do. I think it is in my parents' hands...and God's hands. I am so frustrated though that they aren't taking this more seriously.
Thanks for any insight or advice you might be able to give.
Lyrical
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