![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on October 20, 2003, at 20:27:21
Last week I had a sort-of emotional melt down...I got totally emotionally flooded by old memories and was up all night making that "list" of what to do,including opting out of things in a variety of ways. I finally called my therapist in the morning and by the time he called back in the afternoon I felt like I had made it to the eye of the hurricane...I was calm, numb but very aware that there was real pain waiting for me whether i moved foreward or backwards. We spent a good 15 minutes on the phone making a strategy for the weekend ending with him saying, "please call me if you need me over the weekend." Great. Good deal. I needed that.
By my appointment today I felt crummy about calling him, mortified that I had the melt down and I apologized all over the place. In fact, I actually have been more worried about him thinking less of me than the actual events that led me to call him.
Now I am really confused. In my head, my goal is to improve my coping skills so that I never call him again (between sessions). In therapy, my goal is to ask for emotional help when I need it and not feel so friggin guilty about it! I've been watching for transference - I've read a lot about it. This doesn't feel like it, but maybe???
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2003, at 20:37:52
In reply to Getting worse, posted by DaisyM on October 20, 2003, at 20:27:21
You know, if I remember correctly, Marsha Linehan's DBT requires that clients learn to call their therapists. It's hard to learn to do, but they really would rather be called than wait until there is a huge disaster. I have trouble calling mine after hours or on the weekend, and try not to. But he always ends the session telling me to call him if I need to, and assuring me that he really means it.
I think it's pretty common for a large portion of the patient population to feel reluctant and guilty about calling their therapist. It's something you can work on.
I hope you're feeling better, Daisy.
Posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 8:04:47
In reply to Getting worse, posted by DaisyM on October 20, 2003, at 20:27:21
> Now I am really confused. In my head, my goal is to improve my coping skills so that I never call him again (between sessions). In therapy, my goal is to ask for emotional help when I need it and not feel so friggin guilty about it! I've been watching for transference - I've read a lot about it. This doesn't feel like it, but maybe???
I understand the desire to not need to call your therapist in between sessions, but perhaps calling him without guilt - being able to feel that (a) you need his help, (b) it's OK to need his help and (c) he's OK with you needing his help - is a better goal for right now?You are paying him to be there for you. Try to not limit yourself to thinking "Okay, I can only need him during the 45-50 minutes a week I see him." You say, "In my head, my goal is to improve my coping skills so that I never call him again (between sessions)." - perhaps improving your coping skills would include calling him between sessions. *Maybe* if you had a scheduled call - where you could perhaps leave him a message to say, "I'm okay," or "I need to talk to you," - you might find you don't actually need to talk to him as much between sessions as you are afraid you do.
Forgive yourself for needing your therapist. That's what he's there for! It sounds like a healthy coping skill to me...
P
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:57:10
In reply to Getting worse, posted by DaisyM on October 20, 2003, at 20:27:21
If your call was inappropriate, he wouldn't have talked to you for 15 minutes. Nor would he have told you to call over the weekend if you needed to. Your call was not inappropriate.
The goal in therapy is not to NEVER call between sessions, it is to only call between sessions when you NEED to.
Your conflict between asking for emotional help and not calling is very interesting. That would be a good topic for therapy.
Transference? I don't know. I think that you are displaying your hesitance to ask for emotional help. What do you think he is feeling about your call? What did other in your past do when you asked for emotional help?
Posted by DaisyM on October 21, 2003, at 13:22:41
In reply to Re: Getting worse » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:57:10
I told him that I was embarressed that I couldn't work it out on my own and ended up calling him -- and that I felt like a huge pain and that he would end up mad at me. It was interesting because he started out reassuring me that it was really OK, he wanted to know how the weekend went and thought my chosen coping skill (cleaning everything in sight!) was really OK. He did say that he thought I was terrified of needing him (YOU THINK!?) and that I would probably continue to struggle with this...and he would probably have to tell me a hundred times that it was OK to need people, him included. But then I told him I needed a pep talk, I felt like I was getting worse. But, I didn't get a pep talk...I got, "well, it will probably be this way for awhile because we are going into some deep and dangerous places for you. That is why we are meeting more frequently right now, to help contain the flooding." Great. Thanks. I told him there is a hole in my container...at least he laughed.
It was complicated in my house growing up so asking for emotional support, in any fashion, just wasn't done. That isn't too say that I wasn't loved or never hugged but there was a level of unpredictability and then, unavailability, on the part of both of my parents. (There I go again -- my standard, it wasn't THAT bad, so I SHOULDN'T feel this bad, other people have had it way worse...My Therapist has noticed this, commented on it, points it out when I diminish what happend but I've noticed he never actually disagrees that it wasn't that bad.)
I, in turn, do back flips to be available to my children, emotionally and actually physically being here. This has been a recent topic for exploration in therapy as well, how is my present depression going to negatively impact my children -- and how hard I work to keep all this from them. They are not babies (teens/preteen)so they notice stuff.
I also said yesterday that I was thinking if I took a couple of days off, isolated myself and really processed all of these thoughts for 48 hours -- really worked on this stuff -- that maybe I could get through it and be done with it. He told me this was a bad idea, it doesn't work that way and to put that notion right out of my head. Vacation for selfcare is what he is advocating for. How do you vacation from your thoughts?!
Thanks for the support all.
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 23:15:53
In reply to Re: Getting worse, posted by DaisyM on October 21, 2003, at 13:22:41
(((Daisy)))
I'm posting this because I want to respond to what you have said, but it is past my bedtime. This is the best way for me to be sure to post tomorrow.
It is so hard.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2003, at 10:49:28
In reply to Re: Getting worse, posted by DaisyM on October 21, 2003, at 13:22:41
> I told him that I was embarressed that I couldn't work it out on my own and ended up calling him -- and that I felt like a huge pain and that he would end up mad at me. It was interesting because he started out reassuring me that it was really OK, he wanted to know how the weekend went and thought my chosen coping skill (cleaning everything in sight!) was really OK. He did say that he thought I was terrified of needing him (YOU THINK!?) and that I would probably continue to struggle with this...and he would probably have to tell me a hundred times that it was OK to need people, him included. But then I told him I needed a pep talk, I felt like I was getting worse. But, I didn't get a pep talk...I got, "well, it will probably be this way for awhile because we are going into some deep and dangerous places for you. That is why we are meeting more frequently right now, to help contain the flooding." Great. Thanks. I told him there is a hole in my container...at least he laughed.
Therapists don't seem to want to comfort us. They want us to see reality (nice of them, huh?). I did the same thing with my therapist - we spent the whole time talking about how he wasn't upset by things I had said and he was glad that I brought it up, and etc. As I walked out the door I said "So we're OK?" (wanting assurance that he wasn't mad at me). I'm sure he was shaking his head as I walked out the door - I didn't dare look.
His answer to you was that there isn't any easy way out. That you have to fight through the pain. He can't tell you that the pain will go away without a fight - and I think that is what you want to hear (and so do I!!!).
>
> It was complicated in my house growing up so asking for emotional support, in any fashion, just wasn't done. That isn't too say that I wasn't loved or never hugged but there was a level of unpredictability and then, unavailability, on the part of both of my parents. (There I go again -- my standard, it wasn't THAT bad, so I SHOULDN'T feel this bad, other people have had it way worse...My Therapist has noticed this, commented on it, points it out when I diminish what happend but I've noticed he never actually disagrees that it wasn't that bad.)I believed I had a really good childhood until I was 38. My parents each had, in essence, an emotional unavailability to me. Things looked great from the outside (no physical or sexual abuse, attentive parents, no real money worries, etc.). But when I was really, really little and the availability issue mattered to my ability to grow up emotionally, they weren't there. Plus I was hospitalized for 10 days (Meningitis, spinal taps - they were wonderful and my mother wasn't allowed to be there). I think that this kind of neglect - which is in the family from the very, very beginning can be very, very damaging (I have Borderline Personality Disorder).
>
> I, in turn, do back flips to be available to my children, emotionally and actually physically being here. This has been a recent topic for exploration in therapy as well, how is my present depression going to negatively impact my children -- and how hard I work to keep all this from them. They are not babies (teens/preteen)so they notice stuff.My therapist finally convinced me that my school age children NEEDED to know that I cried. And that they NEEDED to know that I had problems that I was trying to solve. Because otherwise they would think that when they grew up THEY would always have to have it together. I still have trouble with this... But I think she was right.
>
> I also said yesterday that I was thinking if I took a couple of days off, isolated myself and really processed all of these thoughts for 48 hours -- really worked on this stuff -- that maybe I could get through it and be done with it. He told me this was a bad idea, it doesn't work that way and to put that notion right out of my head. Vacation for selfcare is what he is advocating for. How do you vacation from your thoughts?!Watch "What About Bob". Distraction - whatever works for you. Sleep. Play with your kids. I think that he is right that you can't do it all at once. The truths have to seep down into your unconscious. I usually have some idea of what I was supposed to learn the day after a session. I thought, maybe I should see him three times a week instead of twice. But if I did that I would not be living, and I would not be trying out the new truths to see if they work. I certainly sympathize with the "Let's get this over with" attitude.
> Thanks for the support all.
Posted by DaisyM on October 22, 2003, at 12:43:14
In reply to Re: Getting worse » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2003, at 10:49:28
What you say makes sense and then I want to say BUT! I NEED to get this over with. So, I'll take a deep breath and keep working on it, in pieces and parts. At least I've stopped thinking every week that I'll quit therapy. Now I just fantasize about running away from home. :)
I never realized how hard it is to sort out the parts of you that were/are "damaged" -- from the surface it looks like an easy job to connect those dots, to figure out the cause of your current distress. And even if you can pinpoint those stressors, "fixing" and accepting are impossibly hard.
Sounds like you are really in a productive place right now, but it does sound difficult. It is cool that your Therapist is open to your needs. Don't you love watching their body language as they struggle to not to comfort us?
I haven't seen What about Bob but I just saw A Girl Interrupted which was really good. I also like Billy Crystal's movies, so maybe I'll rent those. I have to go to LA for a state board meeting for 3 days this weekend. I have this fantasy of hot tubs, Cabana Boys and room service. We'll see!
-D
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.