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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 14:27:23
I had my first session in my new group. This is my 3rd attempt at these things-- the first time it was nothing but conflict, then ended when several people dropped out. The 2nd time was disaster-- I was kicked out. That was in 1999. I think I understand what went wrong then, but it was very painful. So I went into this group expecting possible repeat disaster, and very guarded hope for any benefit beyond having a weekly event to attend (which is no small thing, given my lack of social activity right now).
I came out feeling happy and perky, but embarrassed. The group seemed like nice people. The age range seems right. Several are therapy veterans. Three admitted being on medication (I didn't yet).
Yet I struggle so much with the lack of structure in the format. I feel like I don't know what's appropriate to say, or when to say it. I can't tell when it's OK to change the subject. I can't figure out why the therapist intervenes sometimes and not others. I'm afraid I'll either remain silent, and not get my share of time and attention, or else blurt out things inappropirately and others will feel interrupted or stomped on. I feel utterly graceless. And afraid I'll just go on being at odds with the natural rhythm, and get rejected. And exposed as a socially graceless, immature reject. General humiliation.
I mentioned being in an online support group, and one woman said she wouldn't believe people over the internet. I was a little offended. Like people would want to make up the stories we post here. It's not like we're trying to make ourselves look good!
Posted by Penny on September 24, 2003, at 14:38:51
In reply to Started group therapy, posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 14:27:23
I've only been in group therapy once, but in my group it was left up to the therapist as the moderator to keep folks in 'check' - to ensure that everyone's rights were respected, that no one person was doing all of the talking, that others were encouraged to talk when they weren't participating (encouraged, not forced), and so on. It seems to me that if the therapist is doing his or her job, then that is something you shouldn't have to worry about.
Also - try to stick with the initial positive thoughts you're having about the group - nice people, good age range, etc. - and remember that they are probably thinking many of the same things you are - they are probably afraid of not fitting in. That is a natural fear for people in a new group situation.
It will be okay. Keep telling yourself that! It will be okay. :-)
Good for you for going!!!
P
Posted by fallsfall on September 24, 2003, at 16:13:51
In reply to Started group therapy, posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 14:27:23
Good for you!!!
I have been in two groups. One was very confrontational and I left after 6 months. The other was completely non-confrontational. I stayed in that one 1 1/2 years (?) - until going skating on that night was more important. So it just depends on the group and the therapist.
I think that each group has a rhythm. If you watch the group for a couple of weeks you will begin to see how topics switch and things like that. You might want to bring a topic in each week so that you do have something to say. You could even talk about how you don't know how the group is working. Each of them were new in the group once, they will all understand.
There really are things that we learn better from our peers, and that is what group is for.
Good luck!
Posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 19:41:16
In reply to Re: Started group therapy » Tabitha, posted by Penny on September 24, 2003, at 14:38:51
Thanks for the encouragement.
I can't fault the therapist though. She's made it clear part of the process is learning to negotiate for time and attention from the group, by whatever means. It's uncomfortable for me-- but I can see how learning to do it will be better than having her do it for me.
Posted by noa on September 25, 2003, at 20:04:52
In reply to Re: Started group therapy » Penny, posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 19:41:16
I was in 2 different groups, too--one a good experience, one a bad experience.
The first for almost 4 years. It had rocky moments for sure but was mostly supportive.
The second was extremely confrontational and didn't feel safe and everyone kept dropping out. There was way too much shame felt by everyone in the group. In this harsh group, which was held in the outpatient dept. at a public hospital, the therapists were two psychiatry residents and now that I'm an older person in the world, I wonder now if they had any idea what they were doing.
This group had existed about 6 months before I got there, and had already had a 60% turnover! In the year I was there, 100% of the people that were there when I got there left, plus a couple more people who came after me and left before me. I stayed way longer than I should have--about a year, but then couldn't take it anymore and dropped out just like all the people before me had--precipitously. The therapists never made eye contact with us, were sometimes silent for long periods, and when they did speak, their comments were rather hostile. Sometimes they were trying to be pithy with these rather grand "group process" comments but these just came out as incredibly hostile or cryptic and clearly not therapeutic because to be therapeutic you gotta at least be able to keep the people in the room, right??? And they would not ever relate directly to us or any comments we ever mustered up the courage to make about how the group felt or how the therapists' comments felt, etc.---they constantly framed any of this as being transference and about our pasts and coming from our illnesses, and not at all about what was really happening right there in the room. It was positively CRAZY-MAKING!! When anyone had ever brought up that they were thinking of leaving, the therapists basically said they couldn't leave until they accomplished their goals. This was basically based on this contract we got when we started. But give me a break! They were so literal about it and besides, you can't make anyone stay! So, the comments of the therapists made people feel like leaving was a sign of sickness, etc. It was such a catch-22 because it felt like it was horribly uncomfortable to stay but felt horribly shameful if you wanted to leave. Geez--it was way too much like the sick families we had all come from and not therapeutic. So everyone just started disappearing when they wanted to leave. I ended up doing that, too, tho, like I said--I stayed too long because of my own self doubt about trusting my own instincts. Ironically, the decision to leave that group was very therapeutic for me!I'm glad I had had the previous group experience to know that group therapy doesn't have to be a bad experience! The first group ended because of a change in the agency where it was run, but we ended on a positive note.
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2003, at 21:00:25
In reply to Started group therapy, posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 14:27:23
Congratulations on taking such a brave step, Tabitha! I think Fallsfall is right. You made a one year commitment to this group, right? So taking two or three weeks to watch and get to know the rhythm of a group that has already been established doesn't seem all that long. I don't know about you, but that's sort of how I started posting on Babble, too.
However, I must confess that I am one of those people who can't get social rhythm to save my life. I can be part of a group for years, and the only way I get accepted is if they mascot me. And very few groups even do that. Knowing when and how to speak in a conversation, seeing when a topic is changing, all those things are not only a foreign language to me, but not even written with my alphabet and symbols. I'm hopeless at it.
I often think of a small example to demonstrate how awful I am at it. The liturgy at church is all read together. And somehow people seem to read it at the same rhythm. But not me. My voice meanders on its own, with different cadence and inflection. :(
However, if I had any social skills whatsoever, I still think I would watch for a while before joining wholeheartedly.
Posted by Tabitha on September 25, 2003, at 22:01:42
In reply to Re: Started group therapy » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2003, at 21:00:25
tonight I had my individual session, half of which was spent processing my reaction to the group. She suggested I just share with them the stuff about not feeling sure how things work. That's fine. But then she wanted to process my reaction to one guy who shared pain about a recent breakup. I just felt like I didn't want to listen to the guy, and had lots of critical thoughts about him. By the end of the session, she had prodded me to see I was avoiding pain over my own recent breakup, so I was finally crying over all this stuff that seemed to come out of nowhere, and left exhausted and depressed.
She's not usually so pushy with me. She was pretty confrontational about some of my other reactions to the group too. I have critical ideas about men, and I know this is a problem I need to work out, but she was just more confrontational than usual. I usually get lots of coddling!
This is how it went before when I was in group. The individual sessions just changed so that I felt like she was forcing me to progress at a rate that would benefit the group.
I know, I'll have to bring all this up with her in my next session. But by next week I'll have a whole load of new issues with the group, too. It's like tripled my therapy workload. I have to process me, my reactions to the group, and the change in the individual relationship.
Disclaimer: I'm griping plenty, but I'm committed to getting something out of all this. It's all supposed to be more healing, right? I just gripe when therapy seems to be adding more stress. When will it feel good? I've been working on my stuff forever!
Posted by O'Ryan on September 26, 2003, at 7:00:20
In reply to Started group therapy, posted by Tabitha on September 24, 2003, at 14:27:23
I see you're going to this group - what is it supposed to achieve for you personally? What problem are you supposed to handle by attending it? Does the group or rather its therapist have the know-how to actually achieve this goal?
You know its fine attending groups and such, but unless they know what they're doing and how to achieve it, it's a waste of time.
One of the best therapies you could ever do for yourself is get out doors where you can gain loads of space for yourself and really notice different objects around you.
Do that on a regular basis and you'll very soon change your out look on life and how you handle things.
Posted by noa on September 26, 2003, at 8:35:42
In reply to Re: Oy!, posted by Tabitha on September 25, 2003, at 22:01:42
Wow, I guess this combo of group and individual with the same therapist does have the power to cut right to the chase! But if it feels too rapid and you don't feel ready to handle the feelings that get exposed so abruptly, tell your therapist that! I mean, it sounds great on the one hand to cut through defenses and get all that insight and all, but if it will make you feel like a basket case emotionally in between sessions, that's no good, right?
Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2003, at 10:27:59
In reply to Re: Started group therapy, posted by O'Ryan on September 26, 2003, at 7:00:20
>
> One of the best therapies you could ever do for yourself is get out doors where you can gain loads of space for yourself and really notice different objects around you.
>
> Do that on a regular basis and you'll very soon change your out look on life and how you handle things.
>With my dad, it was just get out and party more with people, and you'l feel just fine. With my mom, it was just pray more and get in touch with God. Nice in theory. Doesn't actually work for the sort of problems that many of us deal with.
Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2003, at 10:28:28
In reply to Re: Outdoors , posted by Dinah on September 26, 2003, at 10:27:59
Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2003, at 10:31:26
In reply to Re: Oy!, posted by Tabitha on September 25, 2003, at 22:01:42
You've been working on your stuff, and you've been achieving, Tabitha. Look how much healthier you were in your last relationship!!!
Moving forward is fine, just make sure you're doing it at a pace to suit your needs, not your therapist's needs or her needs for the group.
P.S. I think you're right. A lot of our attitudes towards others would come up readily in a group setting while they wouldn't necessarily one on one. I can see where you would get a good relational workout here.
Posted by Tabitha on September 26, 2003, at 14:50:16
In reply to Re: Started group therapy, posted by O'Ryan on September 26, 2003, at 7:00:20
the goal is to work on interpersonal dynamics-- for instance, see patterns of defenses that come up in my relationships. Get feedback on how I relate with others. Ultimately become more capable of intimacy, and more skilled.
I like to get outside too.
Posted by Tabitha on September 26, 2003, at 14:59:17
In reply to Re: Oy!, posted by noa on September 26, 2003, at 8:35:42
exactly. I feel better today, but yesterday had therapy-hangover all afternoon. I will bring it up in my next session with her. Heck, I might even bring it up in group.
This arrangement of group plus individual with the same therapist definitely has its pros and cons. On the pros, she can see what's happening, so she can give me accurate feedback about my group experience in individual. The con is it brings up this me-vs-them dynamic in individual. I get upset when I feel she's favoring group as a whole or other group members over me.
I start to fear she'll want me to rely more on group and less on her, and not give me as much support. Not sure I'm ready to leave the nest.
Posted by Tabitha on September 26, 2003, at 15:05:10
In reply to Re: Oy!, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2003, at 10:31:26
Thanks Dinah. I do recognize I did good in leaving the last relationships pretty soon after it seemed clear we weren't a good match. Not the most rewarding result though.
Group sure does bring up all kinds of new stuff, but it's such a blow to the ego. I'm trying to see it as not a blow to me, but a blow to the critical parent in me, which is the part that created all these defenses. So far that's just an intellectual comfort.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 26, 2003, at 22:30:53
In reply to Re: Started group therapy, posted by O'Ryan on September 26, 2003, at 7:00:20
> I see you're going to this group - what is it supposed to achieve for you personally?
When you're blocked, you're not supposed to post, so I'm extending your block.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
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