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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:21:24
I've not gone to temple for a while. Have been reading Thich and some other stuff. Listening to Podcasts to get my Dharma.
Tomorrow I'm going to go to a real talk. I'm kind of excited, because before when I've heard talks/lectures/sermons (whatever you want to call it when a monk/enlightened one shares) well, it hasn't been in my native language. Or, it HAS been in my native language, but just barely...!
I'm kind of excited. I hope I'm courageous enough to go. I don't have a social group that participates in my faith. I don't even think most people are aware of my faith (I only became aware of it when I started listening more, and learning more... kind of like "yeah, that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah, I've been saved".
My finding faith is kind of like a walk on a beach. at first the sand was so hot and unbearable. I thought I was in the desert. after a while, I look down and my toes are wet, and now I'm up to my ankles, but only during high tide.
I may never be able to swim, but a walk in the wet sand is nice. :)
Will I have the courage to stay for meditation? What if I feel like I'm a loser/faker? What if I feel that social anxiety that comes on sometimes when I'm out of my comfort zone.
Oh well. I hope high tide comes at the right time tomorrow?
-Li
Posted by gardenergirl on November 15, 2006, at 14:08:54
In reply to Going to go to get me some Dharma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:21:24
I hope high tide comes at the right time, and I hope you stayed for the meditation and that it was good.
I loved your metaphor about finding your faith. And I'm glad you posted about this because I'm just beginning to explore kundalini yoga and meditation with chanting. I'm feeling very hopeful and excited about it, but also sort of nervous. It's comforting to think of someone else who's reaching out and continuing to explore and is nervous about it.
Warm wishes and energy to you...
gg
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 21:24:07
In reply to Going to go to get me some Dharma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:21:24
Thanks for your warm wishes gardenergirl,
There were some nice moments during the talk, when I was like aha. I get it, and that was a nice feeling. And I DID stay for the meditation. It was okay. I didn't feel socially awkward, but I had a really hard time finding my breath.
I also remember the disorientation and terror that made me stop meditating in the first place. I had been practicing daily meditation for about 2 months- sometimes guided, sometimes on my own, sitting at home. I got to a place where I had to acknowledge overwhelming emotions. The kind of meditation I practice is not about self-hypnosis (although I do tend to go in that direction!) or repression. So, I am forced to recognize and acknowledge. To hold this feeling like a baby and just watch it and see what it is trying to tell me. And it was really scary. I think it takes a lot of bravery to really learn to pay attention to oneself.
I remember the teaching that was so useful to me at times- when I feel pain, I should shift the focus of my awareness to the pain. To really examine it, listen to it. Watch it. Be with it. Sometimes the pain is wrapped in so many layers that when we lay it bare, it's really nothing more than raw nerve fibers.
Your Kundalini practice sounds interesting- remember that you can participate at many different levels, and to pick what feels right for you. Faith is a way to make your life richer, more meaningful. It should not be a source of pain and stress more than a way to heal it.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 18, 2006, at 9:15:12
In reply to Going to go to get me some Dharma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:21:24
Lindenblute,
I would like to offer you support from my perpective in regards to your post here and if I could have clarification of the following, I think that I could better respond to your post.
You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation. If you could offer more intonational cues of speech, then I think that I could better be able to tell as of which intended meaning you are presenting. If your use of quotes is for emphasis, your clarification of that could help me to be able to offer you support from my perspective.
If you could clarify this for me, then I feel that I could post my response and offer more support from my perspective accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 18, 2006, at 15:34:04
In reply to Lou's request to Lindenblute for clarification » Lindenblüte, posted by Lou Pilder on November 18, 2006, at 9:15:12
> You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.Hi Lou,
The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.-Li
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 18, 2006, at 20:01:27
In reply to Re: Lou's request to Lindenblute for clarification » Lou Pilder, posted by Lindenblüte on November 18, 2006, at 15:34:04
>
> > You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> > The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> > In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.
>
> Hi Lou,
> The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.
>
> -LiLi,
You wrote,[...the voice of the homunculus speaks...]
Could you clarify if then which of the quotes are from the homunculus or not and if the quote, [..."Hallelujah, I've been saved"...]is from the homunculus, and the other is not, or if the quote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense"...]is from the homunculus and the other is not, or both are from the homunculus or niether are form the homunculus? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of what you have posted and be able to better offer you support from my perspective.
Lou
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 19, 2006, at 8:21:23
In reply to Lou's reply to Li's reply to Lou(2) » Lindenblüte, posted by Lou Pilder on November 18, 2006, at 20:01:27
> >
> > > You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> > > The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> > > In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.
> >
> > Hi Lou,
> > The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.
> >
> > -Li
>
> Li,
> You wrote,[...the voice of the homunculus speaks...]
> Could you clarify if then which of the quotes are from the homunculus or not and if the quote, [..."Hallelujah, I've been saved"...]is from the homunculus, and the other is not, or if the quote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense"...]is from the homunculus and the other is not, or both are from the homunculus or niether are form the homunculus? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of what you have posted and be able to better offer you support from my perspective.
> Lou
>Both are from the homunculus. I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 19, 2006, at 10:06:24
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Li's reply to Lou(2) » Lou Pilder, posted by Lindenblüte on November 19, 2006, at 8:21:23
> > >
> > > > You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> > > > The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> > > > In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.
> > >
> > > Hi Lou,
> > > The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.
> > >
> > > -Li
> >
> > Li,
> > You wrote,[...the voice of the homunculus speaks...]
> > Could you clarify if then which of the quotes are from the homunculus or not and if the quote, [..."Hallelujah, I've been saved"...]is from the homunculus, and the other is not, or if the quote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense"...]is from the homunculus and the other is not, or both are from the homunculus or niether are form the homunculus? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of what you have posted and be able to better offer you support from my perspective.
> > Lou
> >
>
> Both are from the homunculus. I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...Li,
You wrote,[...Both are from the homunculus.I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...].
I think that I could give a better reply to you if you could clarify the statement of yours,[... voice of the homunculus speaks..."Aha!" "(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute" etc...] as pertaining to are you saying any of the following?
A. What ,in your opinion, was the reason that the homunculus spoke to you saying something like, [...(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute...}?
B. Do you accept the speaking to you from the homunculus as to be fact?
C. Do you have a background of the writings of Gibert Ryle?
D.(deleted by respondant) you could email me if you like for this
E. In the quote of yours,[..."yeah, that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah, I've been saved."...],if you are quoting the homunclulus, does this mean to you that the homunculus is saying that the concept of salvation that other faiths embrace does not make sense?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 19, 2006, at 10:30:23
In reply to Lou's reply to Li's reply to Lou(3) » Lindenblüte, posted by Lou Pilder on November 19, 2006, at 10:06:24
> > > >
> > > > > You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> > > > > The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> > > > > In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Lou,
> > > > The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.
> > > >
> > > > -Li
> > >
> > > Li,
> > > You wrote,[...the voice of the homunculus speaks...]
> > > Could you clarify if then which of the quotes are from the homunculus or not and if the quote, [..."Hallelujah, I've been saved"...]is from the homunculus, and the other is not, or if the quote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense"...]is from the homunculus and the other is not, or both are from the homunculus or niether are form the homunculus? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of what you have posted and be able to better offer you support from my perspective.
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > Both are from the homunculus. I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...
>
> Li,
> You wrote,[...Both are from the homunculus.I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...].
> I think that I could give a better reply to you if you could clarify the statement of yours,[... voice of the homunculus speaks..."Aha!" "(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute" etc...] as pertaining to are you saying any of the following?
> A. What ,in your opinion, was the reason that the homunculus spoke to you saying something like, [...(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute...}?
> B. Do you accept the speaking to you from the homunculus as to be fact?
> C. Do you have a background of the writings of Gibert Ryle?
> D.(deleted by respondant) you could email me if you like for this
> E. In the quote of yours,[..."yeah, that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah, I've been saved."...],if you are quoting the homunclulus, does this mean to you that the homunculus is saying that the concept of salvation that other faiths embrace does not make sense?
> Lou
>
> Li,
You wrote,[..."Aha!" (censored by respondent) Lindenblute etc...],[...both (the quotes) are from the homunculus...].
If you , or anyone else interested in this discussion, would like to email with me concerning this before you might become a respondent to this discussion, I could offer you ,perhaps, something unbeknowing to you concerning the thinking here that IMO could be very important to this community.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 19, 2006, at 10:48:49
In reply to Lou's reply to Li's reply to Lou(3) » Lindenblüte, posted by Lou Pilder on November 19, 2006, at 10:06:24
> > > >
> > > > > You wrote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah,I've been saved"....].
> > > > > The grammatical structure of your statement could be of a nature that could not be clear to me and there could be an obscuring of your intended meaning to me because of the use of quotations.
> > > > > In your statement in question, it is unclear to me as to if you are using the quotation marks to denote speech, such as calling attention to ironic words, or as a quotation.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Lou,
> > > > The quotation marks are a device that I used in order to reflect the fact that I often have a voice in my head. This voice of the homunculus speaks. Says things like "Aha!" "stupid Lindenblüte" etc.
> > > >
> > > > -Li
> > >
> > > Li,
> > > You wrote,[...the voice of the homunculus speaks...]
> > > Could you clarify if then which of the quotes are from the homunculus or not and if the quote, [..."Hallelujah, I've been saved"...]is from the homunculus, and the other is not, or if the quote,[..."yeah,that makes a lot of sense"...]is from the homunculus and the other is not, or both are from the homunculus or niether are form the homunculus? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of what you have posted and be able to better offer you support from my perspective.
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > Both are from the homunculus. I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...
>
> Li,
> You wrote,[...Both are from the homunculus.I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this...].
> I think that I could give a better reply to you if you could clarify the statement of yours,[... voice of the homunculus speaks..."Aha!" "(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute" etc...] as pertaining to are you saying any of the following?
> A. What ,in your opinion, was the reason that the homunculus spoke to you saying something like, [...(csnsored by respondant) Lindenblute...}?I'm not sure of the reason. I think that the Buddhist speaker was saying things that I identified with. Things that made a lot of sense to me. But I'm not sure of the reason.
> B. Do you accept the speaking to you from the homunculus as to be fact?
Never
> C. Do you have a background of the writings of Gibert Ryle?
Nope
> D.(deleted by respondant) you could email me if you like for this
No thank you
> E. In the quote of yours,[..."yeah, that makes a lot of sense" rather than "Hallelujah, I've been saved."...],if you are quoting the homunclulus, does this mean to you that the homunculus is saying that the concept of salvation that other faiths embrace does not make sense?
Salvation as embraced by other faiths has made sense to me at times, and at other times not so much. For me, personally, living by Buddhist ethics has come very naturally, and is a good ideal for me to try for. At some level, the teachings of all of the major world religions seem to agree on many basic tenets of human behavior.
For whatever reason, I have found that practicing Buddhism (living well) and meditation gives me stability. I would be very interested to hear from a follower of one of the monotheistic religions who has also had some exposure to basic Buddhism. Perhaps you (Lou) are such a person, or another psycho-babbler is invited to enter this discussion as well.
Are the 4 basic truths of Buddha complementary to faith in a monotheistic religion, such as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism? Could one live according to Buddhist ethics, even while practicing another religion? I'm not at all sure that the Buddhist faith would discourage worshiping another Enlightened One such as Jesus, Mohammad, etc. Although the emphasis may be placed in different parts of the teaching, I often wonder if all faiths share some very common core of ethical participation in a civilized socialized society. One place of divergence is what will happen to followers in the afterlife, but here again, I'm not sure that the world religions are that divergent, at least when interpreted in metaphorical terms.
At any rate, thank you for your interest in this matter.
-Li
This is the end of the thread.
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