![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 17, 2005, at 8:13:08
This is a tough topic...but one that needs addressed.
First let me say, not ALL Mental Illness is caused or influenced by the spirit world.
The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus drew a distiction between those who were vexed with evil spirits...and those who needed physical healing.
This is an example of the Lord dealing with BOTH physical and spiritual issues at the same time.Mt 12:22
Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.Mr 1:34
And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.Here is an example of purely physical healing
Mt 14:14
And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick.Mt 15:30
And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:Lu 4:40
Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.My opinion is that some mental iilness is used by the devil to make spiritual issues tougher to deal with...and visa versa.
The good news is that the God we serve is able to minister to the Whole man, boy, mind and spirit.
BF
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2005, at 21:06:31
In reply to Mental Ilness....and Demonic Oppression, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 17, 2005, at 8:13:08
BF,
You wrote,[...the Whole man, boy , mind and spirit...].
Do you mean, [...the Whole man, body , mind and spirit?...].
Lou
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 18, 2005, at 9:31:17
In reply to Lou's response to Buckeye Fan's post-doyumen » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2005, at 21:06:31
> BF,
> You wrote,[...the Whole man, boy , mind and spirit...].
> Do you mean, [...the Whole man, body , mind and spirit?...].
> LouYes .....slip of the typing finger~
1Co 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Posted by Greenhornet on February 18, 2005, at 11:43:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Buckeye Fan's post-doyumen, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 18, 2005, at 9:31:17
As a practicing Catholic and mental health professional I have seen the difference and I am not a strange or superstitious person. Trust me, you will know it if one is "possessed by an evil spirit" as opposed to "oppressed by mental illness".
And once you have seen your first exorcism you'll come away as I did -- no longer a skeptic
Posted by Spriggy on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:20
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Buckeye Fan's post-doyumen, posted by Greenhornet on February 18, 2005, at 11:43:38
I am going through this very question myself right now. Is this spiritual warfare? Or is this a real, chemical/physical problem in my body?I don't know. I feel more confused than ever.
I know the Word of God says we have authority given to us (by Jesus) over the principalities of this world. So if this were simply an attack of satan to oppress me, if I rebuke Him and plead the blood of Jesus, is he not required to leave me alone?
And if I do that, and this oppressive, darkness/confusion remains, what does that mean?
Does it mean this is physical? Does it mean I don't have enough faith to "believe" myself well? Does that mean I'm defeated.
I don't know anymore. I know I love God with everything I have within me. I've never cried out to Him more or sought His direction more than I have through this horrible mental torment.
And yet, I am still here. This pit is just as dark and I feel so hopeless.
I know my God is big enough to deliver me from this.. so why is He chosing not to? Maybe He is refining me through this, maybe I need to experience this so I can have compassion for other's in this shape.
I don't know.
All I do know is that God is still God despite the pain I'm going through. This heartache does not change the core of who God is.
He is loving, good, all powerful, and somehow, I believe He will eventually deliver me from this. Whether it's through His supernatural healing hand or His sustaining Hand. I just have to trust Him.
Posted by rayww on February 18, 2005, at 13:09:17
In reply to Mental Ilness....and Demonic Oppression, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 17, 2005, at 8:13:08
I experienced demonic oppression once, and have wondered about false spirits. I have gone the course on this topic because at my bipolar extremes people who are very close to me thought I was possessed. They did not understand the extremes. I do, and I accept them and try to harness them and use them for good. No matter who we are and what disorder we suffer from, there is an element of belief and submission that unless understood, can be overlooked.
God can and does heal mental and physical illness if it is according to His will. He can also lead us to our own understanding and solutions. Many times healing cannot take place without fasting and prayer. http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=matt+17%3A+14-21&search.x=4&search.y=14. There is usually an element of submission on our part. All are capable of a belief in God. All are capable of submission at whatever level.
Both good and bad habits can be developed in our disorders. There is a light side to the disorder that can be tapped into. It is very creative and imaginative. But usually it is the bad habits we have fallen into in the disorders that requre the most effort on our part to overcome.
How does demonic posession happen? One way is the moment we lose control of our own falculties Satan is right there at the door waiting to come in and take over without our realizing it. He watches all forms of chemical imbalance, especially things we have no power or control over. There is every degree of posession because Satan is very clever. He knows our areas of greatest vulnerability, but so does God.
God will especially protect us in our area of greatest vulnerability, because those are our inherant weakensses. But Satan often disguises himself as love and as helping others and carefully and cleverly leads us to a slightly wrong fork in a road that is very close to the right one. Suddenly this road we are travelling can make an abrupt turn, and that is the point at which we become lost.
What tools are available for our healing and use? Belief and Faith are mentioned the most in scripture.
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=mustard+seed&search.x=26&search.y=5&newsearch=ok&OT=1&NT=1&BM=1&TX=1&SM=1http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/32/30#30
It's a struggle to barely survive, and when chemical imbalance is present, the struggle is extreme. After I was numbed with medication to the point that I couldn't connect to my own thoughts or feelings, I decided to try a nutritional supplement. Desperate people noticed that aggression in hogs was calmed by a certain nutritional supplement in their feed. They decided to try it on one's daughter who was going to suicide. Within two days her suicidal thoughts and aggressive behavior subsided and her personality returned.
The scriptures teach us that Satan's goal is to destroy us, and as quickly as possible lead us to death before we have a chance to repent. He thinks by so doing he can claim us, but that's a lie. Christ set in motion THE plan for a way back. We are so much better off if we stick it out here. Keep looking for solutions. Apply correct principles. Experiment with the seeds of faith. Try to figure out the basics of life for yourself. Cling to basics.
How do we know if we have a problem with evil spirits? The scriptures teach that if we cannot pray to God it is a sign there may be a problem. I mean we CAN NOT pray. We kneel down and our mind gets flooded with other thoughts. I love this chapter: http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/32/8#8 and for me, this is the bottom line.
I am fasting and praying today that any and all who are troubled with demonic posession may be relieved according to their faith and belief.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 6:39:08
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Buckeye Fan's post-doyumen, posted by Spriggy on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:20
Dear Spriggy,
Allow me to use an analogy here.
A well known believer and author Joni Eareckson Tada was permantely paralyzed in a diving accident as a teen-ager.....http://www.joniandfriends.org/
She prayed without ceasing that God would heal her...or allow her to die.
The Lord chose neither.
Instead...she has now helped thousands of christians struggling with vaious trials and tribulations through her testimony, books and workshops.
She could have given up.
She could have renounced her faith...and taken the position that since God didnt heal her...He must not be real, so why be a christian.Instead she perservered...living a very difficult life as a quadraplegec...and yet in the last 25 years has been a beacon of hope and inspiration to thousands.
My point is that even if God does NOT heal you supernatually of your depression....you ARE still important to Him and the Body of Christ.
Since you seem to have sought healing through your prayers and cryings to Him ( rest asurred He HAS heard you) then perhaps it is His Will for you right now, at this point in your life...to continue to serve Him in spite of the very, very difficult depression you are in.Seek help through the many medicines that are avaliable to us today...find a trusting person and/or professional christian counselor, and attack your depression through all of these ways.
Hope this helps~
your co-laborer in Christ & mental Illness..
Buckeye Fan
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 6:58:54
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Buckeye Fan's post-doyumen, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 6:39:08
BF,
You wrote,[...seek help through...find a ...person and/or professional {christian} counselor...].
Are you saying that the counselor should be a Christian? If so, are you also implying that if the counselor is not a Christian that the poster should not go to him/her? If you could clarify this, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 8:45:04
In reply to Lou's request for clarification to Buckeye fan- » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 6:58:54
> BF,
> You wrote,[...seek help through...find a ...person and/or professional {christian} counselor...].
> Are you saying that the counselor should be a Christian? If so, are you also implying that if the counselor is not a Christian that the poster should not go to him/her? If you could clarify this, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> LouLou --
I do not want to answer for Buckeye Fan, however It is a very good idea to counsel with some whose "world view" is the same as your own
(ie Christian,Buddest etc) In my experience it makes the theraputic relationship both much easier to establish and facilites interaction/therapy. Also Christian Counsellors will pray with clients. Hornet
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 8:49:22
In reply to Lou's request for clarification to Buckeye fan- » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 6:58:54
Glad to oblige Lou....
I have been to several counselors over the years...both saved (christians) and non-saved (not saved)As a believer...a professional counselor who is also a Bible Believing christian, is far better to counsel another believer as a patient.
So the short answer is yes....while both saved and unsaved counselors may be equal in their education, ability and expertise....a CHRISTIAN
counselor will usually have a better chance to more fully understand the whole man...and thereby
be more effective when counseling another believerIF there is no christian counselor avaliable in a persons area...then I would most always recommend the best available non-christian counselor in their particuliar area.
Hope this clears it up...if not Id be happy for more dialogue.BF
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 10:29:35
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification to Buckeye fan-, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 8:49:22
BF,
YOu wrote,[...been to ...counselors...both saved(christians)and non-saved (not-saved)....].
In the gramatical structure of your statement above, could you mean that the christian counselors are saved and the non-christian counselors are not saved?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 10:34:17
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification to Buckeye fan- » Lou Pilder, posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 8:45:04
GH,
You wrote,[...Also Christian counsellors will pray with clients...].
According to your gramatical structure of your post, could you mean that non-Christian counselors will not pray with their clients?
Lou
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 11:38:10
In reply to Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd? » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 10:29:35
Dear Lou,
Not quite sure what you seem to be fishin for...
as Hornet and I seem to be on the same page, so to speak.I believe the Bible is God's Word.
I belive the Bible teaches that until a man or women is born-again....they are lost, and cannot fellowship with God.
Jesus as Gods Son showed in His teachings and by example how we are to seek,find, and follow God.A christian's worldview is that ALL must come to the Lord on His terms...as given to us in the Bible. In other words...God really only "see's" 2 types of people on Earth.
Saved born-again followers of Him compromise one group....and then those who have not yet found Him as their Lord & Savior compromise the other.
I could certainly list many passages from the Bible that clearly bear out this basic fundamental christian belief.Therefore......back to the Counselor/Counselee
relationship, as Hornet said..a christian counselor would have a better understanding of how to counsel all the needs of another christian...where as a Counselor who was NOT a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, could not fully counsel a christian patient.All of this hinges upon whether or not you believe the following verses in Gods Word ( The Bible) to be true and accurrate:
Jesus said,
John14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way , the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.John 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born againJohn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.That is why I state the difference between a "christian" counselor..and an unbelieveing counselor.
Here is a link to my Church webpage to better aquint you with Evangelical Christianity
Hope you take alook when you have the time.http://tcftalk.suddenlaunch.com/
God bless
BF
Posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 13:38:58
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd?, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 11:38:10
> Dear Lou,
> Not quite sure what you seem to be fishin for...
> as Hornet and I seem to be on the same page, so to speak.
>
> I believe the Bible is God's Word.
> I belive the Bible teaches that until a man or women is born-again....they are lost, and cannot fellowship with God.
> Jesus as Gods Son showed in His teachings and by example how we are to seek,find, and follow God.
>
> A christian's worldview is that ALL must come to the Lord on His terms...as given to us in the Bible. In other words...God really only "see's" 2 types of people on Earth.
> Saved born-again followers of Him compromise one group....and then those who have not yet found Him as their Lord & Savior compromise the other.
> I could certainly list many passages from the Bible that clearly bear out this basic fundamental christian belief.
>
> Therefore......back to the Counselor/Counselee
> relationship, as Hornet said..a christian counselor would have a better understanding of how to counsel all the needs of another christian...where as a Counselor who was NOT a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, could not fully counsel a christian patient.
>
> All of this hinges upon whether or not you believe the following verses in Gods Word ( The Bible) to be true and accurrate:
>
> Jesus said,
> John14:6
> Jesus saith unto him, I am the way , the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
>
> John 3:7
> Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again
>
> John 3:16
> For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
>
> That is why I state the difference between a "christian" counselor..and an unbelieveing counselor.
>
> Here is a link to my Church webpage to better aquint you with Evangelical Christianity
> Hope you take alook when you have the time.
>
> http://tcftalk.suddenlaunch.com/
>
> God bless
> BFAMEN ! and just to add a bit here, I am fairly certain that Buckeye and I are of different branches of Christ's family..GH
Posted by greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 15:29:52
In reply to Lou's reply to Greenhornet-~pry?, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 10:34:17
> GH,
> You wrote,[...Also Christian counsellors will pray with clients...].
> According to your gramatical structure of your post, could you mean that non-Christian counselors will not pray with their clients?
> LouIt's doubtful, and as a Christian, I dont think counselors of some faiths would pray -- at least not in Jesus name. GH
Posted by greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 15:32:27
In reply to Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd? » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2005, at 10:29:35
> BF,
> YOu wrote,[...been to ...counselors...both saved(christians)and non-saved (not-saved)....].
> In the gramatical structure of your statement above, could you mean that the christian counselors are saved and the non-christian counselors are not saved?
> LouLou,
By the very nature of the name "Christianity" requires Saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. GH
Posted by rayww on February 20, 2005, at 1:02:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd?, posted by greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 15:32:27
How did this end up in the demonic oppression thread? As long as we're here, I have a question. If someone exercises a spiritual gift and it is fake, is that like demonic oppression? Like the gift of tongues or healing, or loud outbursts, rolling on the floor, etc? Is there a true and a fake spiritual manifestation? There are so many, from excorcism to prophesying, in your opinion how does one know which to trust?
The list is so long of the real and fake spiritual gifts. Fake love, fake caring, fake faith, fake belief. Basically everything that is true also has a fake trying to mimic it. It's like that road beside the right one that goes on for so long, but then makes an abrupt turn. It could have gone on for centuries even. My thoughts are just exploring new territory, so I hope you can respond with an open mind, as I am. The real big one would be fake saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. How do we know which saving knowledge to trust? Mine is certainly a different Christianity than yours. Are we both on the same road, or side by side? I suppose only the future will tell.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 20, 2005, at 6:26:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd?, posted by rayww on February 20, 2005, at 1:02:19
> How did this end up in the demonic oppression thread? As long as we're here, I have a question. If someone exercises a spiritual gift and it is fake, is that like demonic oppression? Like the gift of tongues or healing, or loud outbursts, rolling on the floor, etc? Is there a true and a fake spiritual manifestation? There are so many, from excorcism to prophesying, in your opinion how does one know which to trust?
> The list is so long of the real and fake spiritual gifts. Fake love, fake caring, fake faith, fake belief. Basically everything that is true also has a fake trying to mimic it. It's like that road beside the right one that goes on for so long, but then makes an abrupt turn. It could have gone on for centuries even. My thoughts are just exploring new territory, so I hope you can respond with an open mind, as I am. The real big one would be fake saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. How do we know which saving knowledge to trust? I suppose only the future will tell.
*************************************************Well we got on this topic because of a question posed by Spriggy - http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20050111/msgs/459211.html
You are correct in your statement that for most everything that is genuine...there is a counterfiet. That is because the devil is a copy-cat...not a Creator. He loves to mimic and provide mankind with a counterfiet for all that is good and holy, which has been given by God.
His insatiable desire to "be like God" is well documented in the Scriptures;Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.14:15
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Note how many times the word "I" is used.
This is significant, because it demonstrates the Lucifer's main problem.....pride. It was not enough for him to be created a Prize Cherum in Gods service....he desired more power,more prestige...and finally, Gods Position itself.Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.You made a statement rayww...you said "Mine is certainly a different Christianity than yours. Are we both on the same road, or side by side?"
I humbly submit that according to the Holy Scriptures there is only ONE christianity. The Bible says :
4:3
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4:4
There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
4:5
One Lord, One faith, One baptism,
4:6
One God and Father of All, who is above all, and through All, and in you All.We are either together as members of the Body of Christ...or we are outside the family of faith.
Regardless of what denomination ( if any),regardless of what race, color or creed....God has One Family, One Faith and One Savior.Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Lastly, concerning how we can tell the true from the fake? Discernment.
Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE fold, and ONE shepherd.Joh 10:27
My sheep hear MY voice, and I know them, and they follow me:Joh 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.Hope this helps. I So love Gods Word..it has the answers IF we are willing to look and believe!
In Him
BF
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 9:59:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd?, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 20, 2005, at 6:26:19
BF,
You wrote,[...We are {either}...members of (the body of Christ)...{or} we (are outside the family of faith)...].
Is this the same doctrine as ,[...Outside of the Church, there is no salvation...]?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 10:27:13
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye fan-~svd?, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 19, 2005, at 11:38:10
BF,
You wrote,[...God only "sees" two type of people on Earth...]and,[...the bible teaches that untill a man or woman is born again...they are lost and can not fellowship with God...]
and you cited a bible verse,[...I am the way...no man cometh to the Father but by me...].
In your thinking, do the statements above mean that those that do not honor Jesus Christ as God are not saved and are worshiping God as they understand God , in vain?
Lou Pilder
Posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 11:16:28
In reply to Lou's reply to Buckeye Fan-invandothywrshp? » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 10:27:13
> BF,
> You wrote,[...God only "sees" two type of people on Earth...]and,[...the bible teaches that untill a man or woman is born again...they are lost and can not fellowship with God...]
> and you cited a bible verse,[...I am the way...no man cometh to the Father but by me...].
> In your thinking, do the statements above mean that those that do not honor Jesus Christ as God are not saved and are worshiping God as they understand God , in vain?
> Lou PilderLou,
I will let Buckeye fan do the long version, but --it is not the same to HONOR Jesus and to ACCEPT Him as Lord and savior."For by no other name than the name of Jesus Christ can we be saved." Acts 12:4
As for worshiping God or a god -- that rather depends which "god" they are worshiping. The belief that we all worship the same god regardless of our earthly religion is simply not the case.
Greenhornet
Posted by Buckeye Fan on February 20, 2005, at 14:42:57
In reply to Lou's reply to Buckeye Fan-invandothywrshp? » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 10:27:13
Dear Lou,
You wrote "In your thinking, do the statements above mean that those that do not honor Jesus Christ as God are not saved and are worshiping God as they understand God , in vain?"
Lou PilderYou also asked in your earlier post if I meant that there was no salvation outside of The Church
*************************************************
I definitely want to be clear on this.
The ONLY church a person must be a member of , is the Church of The Lord Jesus.
Not Catholic.
Not Methodist
Not Anything...other than a born-again believer
and follower of God.It is possible to have a high opinion about Jesus..
consider him to have been a prophet and/or good moral teacher....and still not go to Heaven.These are not my opinions...or my thoughts.
What I am presenting is the clear teaching of the Bible...God Word.
Jesus was a real historical person who lived, and validated His words through many miraculous signs and wonders.
He was observed by hundreds...and after His resurrection from the grave, was seen by more than 500 people at one time.
He walked on water...healed blind eyes....and even gave commands to the wind and sea ( and they obeyed Him)
What makes Him different from ALL other religious leaders of any time period in human History was the fact that He was God in the flesh.
And as I mentioned.....He backed up His claims with verifiable miracles...including raising from the dead.It is up to each person individually..when confronted with these facts, to decide for themselves if they want to be a Christian or not.
God does not force our obedience...nor does He deal with us unjustly.
He is good...ALL the time.
He is patient, loving and very concerned about His Creation.
Here are a few more statements that Jesus made:Joh 10:30
I and my Father are one.Joh 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.Mt 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
( ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS)-BF
Joh 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(THE JEWS CLAIMED THAT ABRAHAM WAS THIER FATHER...AND JESUS TOLD THEM THAT HE EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS EVER BORN)-BFREV 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is , and which was , and which is to come , the Almighty.Jesus was either who He claimed to be...or not.
I and millions through the ages have experienced Him to be real and alive Today.
This is Basic Evangelical Christianity.BF
Posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 15:05:23
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye Fan-invandothywrshp?, posted by Buckeye Fan on February 20, 2005, at 14:42:57
> Dear Lou,
> You wrote "In your thinking, do the statements above mean that those that do not honor Jesus Christ as God are not saved and are worshiping God as they understand God , in vain?"
> Lou Pilder
>
> You also asked in your earlier post if I meant that there was no salvation outside of The Church
> *************************************************
> I definitely want to be clear on this.
> The ONLY church a person must be a member of , is the Church of The Lord Jesus.
> Not Catholic.
> Not Methodist
> Not Anything...other than a born-again believer
> and follower of God.
>
> It is possible to have a high opinion about Jesus..
> consider him to have been a prophet and/or good moral teacher....and still not go to Heaven.
>
> These are not my opinions...or my thoughts.
> What I am presenting is the clear teaching of the Bible...God Word.
> Jesus was a real historical person who lived, and validated His words through many miraculous signs and wonders.
> He was observed by hundreds...and after His resurrection from the grave, was seen by more than 500 people at one time.
> He walked on water...healed blind eyes....and even gave commands to the wind and sea ( and they obeyed Him)
>
> What makes Him different from ALL other religious leaders of any time period in human History was the fact that He was God in the flesh.
> And as I mentioned.....He backed up His claims with verifiable miracles...including raising from the dead.
>
> It is up to each person individually..when confronted with these facts, to decide for themselves if they want to be a Christian or not.
> God does not force our obedience...nor does He deal with us unjustly.
> He is good...ALL the time.
> He is patient, loving and very concerned about His Creation.
>
> Here are a few more statements that Jesus made:
>
> Joh 10:30
> I and my Father are one.
>
> Joh 3:36
> He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
>
> Mt 9:6
> But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
> ( ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS)-BF
>
>
> Joh 8:58
> Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
> (THE JEWS CLAIMED THAT ABRAHAM WAS THIER FATHER...AND JESUS TOLD THEM THAT HE EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS EVER BORN)-BF
>
> REV 1:8
> I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is , and which was , and which is to come , the Almighty.
>
> Jesus was either who He claimed to be...or not.
>
> I and millions through the ages have experienced Him to be real and alive Today.
> This is Basic Evangelical Christianity.
>
> BF
Thank you Buckeye fan for once again for your clear, concise and solid statement(s)
I will only add that if there are those among you who need more; there is a whole
body of literature out there, along with the New Testament, that speaks of Jesus, his
divinity and his life on earth. Here is one excellent place to begin.
GH
http://www.iclnet.org/
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/christian-history.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 15:38:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Buckeye Fan-invandothywrshp? » Buckeye Fan, posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 15:05:23
gh,
You wrote ,[...Thank you Buckeye Fan for...solid statements.].
Are you saying that you endorse all that the post in question that you are thanking him/her for including,[...he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him...].?
Lou Pilder
Posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 17:26:47
In reply to Lou's response togreenhornet's post-endrswrthofgd? » greenhornet, posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2005, at 15:38:35
> gh,
> You wrote ,[...Thank you Buckeye Fan for...solid statements.].
> Are you saying that you endorse all that the post in question that you are thanking him/her for including,[...he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him...].?
> Lou Pilder
>
"The whole ball of wax" GH
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