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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 11:16:52
While I enjoy discussion and debate on the more esoteric aspects of spirituality, I do want to spend some time focusing on my recovery from depression and addiction. So I'm starting this new thread just to keep a record of my progress over time and within a spiritual context. Others are welcome to join in. What I am most interested in learning about is how anti-depressent drugs effect my experience of God and the spiritual world.
As a bit of background. I am a nicotine and alcohol addict. I smoke a pack a day, and am what you might call a functioning alcoholic. Both addictions date back at least 10 years. About 6 years ago, I sought treatment for depression and was prescribed Effexor along with behavioral counseling. Prior to this period you might say that I had only one firm belief about God or religion. I knew that our lives extended beyond the physical world. I knew this because after the suicide of my mother (I was 13 at the time) she came back to visit me on several occassions. Now can I prove this in a court of law? No. And I certainly understand how others might doubt that what I experienced was real, but I know it was...and that's all that matters to me. And so, I moved forward in my life knowing that there was something going on here that I didn't understand. Anyway, on I went through college, partying, drinking, fighting, whoring, doing drugs and smoking cigarettes. Not really thinking about what I was doing and why. Always expecting that somehow, at some point in the future I would stop and become a normal healthy person. And the years rolled on, it became so much a part of my life that now I realize that I have no idea what its like to be a healthy adult. Anyway...back to the effexor. I started taking this drug in June of 97. The effect on my personality was almost immediate. Within 3 weeks I had spontaniously quit smoking. And my drinking habits turned into, what I can only describe as that of a normal person...a couple of drinks every once in a while during a social function. The nights of sitting alone in my apartment drinking cheap scotch 'till I passed out were gone. But there were even more dramatic changes happening. Fundamental shifts in my worldview were taking place. My friends changed, I met my wife, I changed jobs, made more money, and discovered a wonderful book called Conversations With God. This book helped me to crystalize my understanding of the universe in the most profound way. I became part of the body of God. I began to develop a relationship with Him. I spontaneously began self publishing books of poetry. And I began to reach out and seek others who were having similar experiences. This led me on-line and into a whole new world of rich and deep relationships. And interestly, I started to develop a sort of alter-ego an angel named "Mercury - the God of messengers". I remembered that I am an immortal, multi-dimensional being. A most loved child of God. I could talk to the angels, and they would talk back. I felt like light a light unto the world. Everything had changed. Everything was different. Ans all of this happened in a matter of only a few months.
And then I stopped taking the effexor.
I stopped because it occured to me that I couldn't be 100% sure that my experiences were authentic and not part of some drug induced delusion. And so gradually, I slid back into my old habits. I started smoking again almost right away. The drinking took longer, but came back eventually too. And the depression returned. Along with anxiety and deep regret. I changed from being an inspiring person to always being negative. From loving to scornful. I stopped seeing angels. Stopped reading books. Stopped talking to God. Stopped listening to the universe. My wife asks me all the time...where did that man I married go?
Well, here I am. Trying it again. This is my 4th day on Lexapro. I've started therapy again, and am thinking about trying AA. (no decision yet). I will be posting my experiences in this forum. Trying to document the changes, (if any) that result from this therapy. We'll see if Mercury returns.
I'm happy to accept any questions or comments.
One Love,
Mercury
Posted by rayww on June 30, 2003, at 12:35:48
In reply to Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 11:16:52
If you are going to entertain a belief in God, you must also accept the reality of Satan. God respects our agency (the right to choose and accept consequenses) while Satan's stand is force. He will force us to do evil if he can, and he uses the disorders to enter our will. If we intoxicate ourselves and lose control, Satan will rush in and try to take over our reasoning, pushing us as quickly as possible over his edge and into the life you describe so well. Though God also lives in those same trenches, his purpose is to lift man out of them, to help us become better, and to support us and love us along the way.
I understand your question very well when you wonder exactly what is spiritually real. I believe you did see your mother and commune with angels. Some of the mental disorders are gifts that allow us to perceive things not seen or understood by others.
The dilemna lies in learning how to regognize when we are swinging too far out in them. If we are way far out and know it, medication is likely the only way to reign in a little.
I still consider one of my highest moments to be right before my bipolar diagnosis. I was very high on a spiritual swing. Later Epival shut down my spiritual feelings, yet others could still feel of my spirit, so I wasn't dead, I just couldn't feel it. But my family was very uncomfortable with the high swinging.
A spiritual test that helps increase our sensitivity to spiritual matters is to try to be obedient to it. Try for 15 minutes to obey the good promptings in your conscience, then try for an hour, and work up to a day, then make it a habit. Once God can trust your obedience you will be surprised at the spiritual gifts you will receive. But with those gifts come responsibility to fiercely protect them, or they will dissappear.
If you follow God, He will enable you to be good. Many people do not want that lifestyle so they choose not to follow Him. They fear. To fear God is good, to fear man is not so good.
Having said all this, there is still the real problem of discerning the spirits and trying to tell the good from the bad, (spirituality from spiritualism, etc.) I trust my religion to guide me in that arena.
I trust God, and even though life is tough, I accept that everything will work out for the best as long as I have faith in him and try to keep his commandments. That's faith and the simple truth my mother taught me that has kept me safe from harm throughout my life.
Posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 13:02:30
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by rayww on June 30, 2003, at 12:35:48
Thanks rayww,
I appreciate your support in this matter. And your belief in my experiences as authentic. I should point out however, that while I do Love and follow the teachings of Jesus, I am more Gnostic than Christian. I have said in prior postings that I base my beliefs on a few very fundamental pilars and extrapolate out from there. For example, I believe that God is infinite. And as such is, by definition, All things. Which means that I have to disagree with you primary assumption that if I believe in God then I have to accept the reality of Satan. In fact, I do not. Still, those qualities of experience that you attribute to "satan" do seem to be self-perpetuating. In other words, I agree that, in our reality, darkness appears to have a "life of its own". An agenda if you will. But I see this "force" as a tool, or a gift, one of many with which we can use to define ourselves in relation to our ever growing understanding of God and our relationship to Him. As far as our continued dialogue is concerned, I think these differences are of little importance. We both trust in God, and we both seek to turn away from those things that would interfere with our relationship with Him. And so I will try your advice and seek to obey the "good promptings in my conscience" more each day.
Thanks,
Mercury
Posted by rayww on June 30, 2003, at 13:29:45
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 13:02:30
I would be interested in the play by play (if you care to share) as you try to be more obedient to God's promptings in your conscience.
I liked how you described darkness. I have never heard it put quite like that, but you are so right.
Posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 3:41:53
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by rayww on June 30, 2003, at 13:29:45
Ray and Mercury,
Sheesh, this is a great topic. I wonder if Dr. Bob will move it to the psycho-babble board more drug oriented?????
At any rate, never having taken Effexor or been an alcoholic or heavy smoker - I can't relate specifically to your dilemma, Mercury ( I thought you were a woman up until now )
It's interesting that you bring up Conversations with God though - since I took you to task earlier for not giving Neale credit for that story. As I was lying in bed, having no success at sleep but finding my mind very stimulated by these threads ( ray - hints of hypo-mania perhaps ) I was thinking of how Neale NEVER refers to himself as a channel or medium, which is how I think of him and the words he has transcribed. He prefers to call himself a messenger, as you do, using the nik, Mercury. I think that word (messenger) is a euphemism for (shhhhh, say this very quietly ) prophet.
I think this is an ego inflation that comes with touching the divine and infinite and unknown and unseen. It ‘s also given Mr. Walsch lots of shelf space in Big Box Book Store Chains in the Religion and Spiritual sections, saving him from the back wards of the Occult and New Age. He’s gained incredible popularity this way.
Having cleared yourself of the alcoholic and nicotine fog, while you were on psycho-pharmaceuticals, you were able to feel these things more clearly. Having felt them, perhaps for the first time, a rush like never before filled your being. It is a high, but really, it's the higher self. You transcended the lower, more animal self, which really isn't clear upon first encounter.
My sense is that high, run amok with delusions of grandeur scared you - so you got off the Effexor which helped you get there, and went back to your more base instincts - to hide from yourself and God. Hide and Seek. That is the Earth game. Now your hiding, waiting to be found. But it never works like the children's game. We must seek, not hide. God doesn't hide, it's everywhere. We are only blind to it if we believe we have to go and find something that is hidden. Silly humans, how we fool ourselves so well.
My guess is if you tried the prescription again - you wouldn't find phony enlightenment, you'd find your balanced self. Higher and lower, even steven, or be closer to understanding just what that true balance feels like.
In All Love,
Habby
Posted by Mercury on July 1, 2003, at 11:01:25
In reply to Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 11:16:52
Ok, day 5 on Lexapro. According to experts, its too early to notice any changes in moods. However,, I think there are a few things to note. First, and perhaps the most obvious, I've spent more time writing about my spiritual beliefs in the past 5 days than in the previous 5 months. I'm not saying that the drug triggered this, its just a matter of fact. On the more mood oriented side, I feel a manic episode coming on. During these periods I can be quite reckless. In fact, I'm finding myself fighting certain urges that I know have the potential to be quite destructive. I don't know how that's going to turn out yet. Again, I don't know if that's related to the Lexapro. On the other hand, I feel pretty relaxed about other things. Of course, I should be working now...but I really couldn't care less about it. What I really want is to find some trouble to get into.
Well, that's day 5.
Mercury
Posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 22:50:56
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 1, 2003, at 11:01:25
Hey Mercury, I too feel a hypo-manic episode coming on. Do you distinguish between hypo and florid and the mania dept?
This is the most I have written about spiritual things in a long time as well. I feel that what I am saying is not lost on the folks responding here. Could talking about and thinking about spiritual experience be a trigger to mania? Especially after a long dry spell? I know I was up ALL last night. When I tried to sleep, all I could think about was all the posts I wanted to make on this Faith board and hadn't had the time to write yet. I eventually did write what was going round my brain some time in the middle of the night. I thought perhaps that once I wrote it, my mind would settle and I would get some sleep.
Didn't happen. I went and did yard work at four thirty in the morning, after taking the first of what will be a few days of Klonopin. It was great to hear the Robins start to sing out in the silence of the diminishing night. To see a red planet hovering in the southern sky, to watch the sky grow light in the northeast are things I have not done for a great while. I rarely awaken early these days.
Mercury, I can only speculate what kind of trouble you are looking for. I wonder how old you are and if you are still married. It sounded like it. Is your wife a very spiritual person and did you meet her during your “”Conversations With God”” phase?
Yours truly,
Habby
Posted by Mercury on July 3, 2003, at 10:16:49
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment » Mercury, posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 22:50:56
Ok let's see. Not sure what the difference between hypo and florid mania is. Can you elaborate on that for me please? I will say that what I was experiencing Tuesday was typical of a short term episode where I just get very restless. I don't feel like focusing on assigned tasks, yet I feel a very strong need to be involved in something exciting. Often there won't be anything exciting going on, so I'll attempt to seek it out, or create it myself. Very often the result is that I get myself in some trouble of some kind. Its also associated with bindge drinking. And along with that, all sorts of trouble would arise. Although this time, there was none of that. Right now, I feel rather stable, although I still feel the stirrings of restlessness deep down. And I really just want to be left alone -- not easy when you've got a wife and 3 little boys. But on the bright side, I've not had a drink in 5 days and I've slept pretty well this week. Its strange though, because I've not made any attempt to quit drinking or any commitment to cut back. Its just happened that way. Of course money's been really tight this week, so that might have something to do with it. We'll see how the holiday goes. I've read on other boards that some people on Lexapro just loose interest in drinking. Well that remains to be seen. I did meet someone interesting yesterday. I suspect it was an "aspect". What is an aspect? Well, those who are familiar with the Seth material know the concept of the "multidimensional self". Basically, what that means is that there is a much larger "You" living out multiple lives in different dimensions and times simultaneously. Some of these "others" you would recognize as the you that you see in the mirror, but they don't usually cross your path, while others who you would not easily recognize occassionally exist in the same time and place. And on occassion you will be attracted to each other for the purpose of...well some purpose that only your higher self is really aware of. In short, you are each different "aspects" of the same higher self. Once in a while, one will cross your path. Well, I suspect that just such a person crossed my path yesterday. I suspect this is the case for several reasons...first because the meeting was completely random and unexpected, yet now that I'm aware of it, I realize the meeting has been inevitable for some time. And because it happened right when I was feeling a strong need for "something" to happen. Also because there was a very stong sense of familiarity. And a tremendous number of similarities in life style. In fact, if there was one way to describe this person, it was that they felt very much like my sibling. Or I could just be making this all up. Looking for meaning in an otherwise meaningless encounter. Or not. Either way, I'm wondering now if this isn't something I should investigate further. Anyway, that was day 6.
Very interesting.
Mercury
Posted by Mercury on July 3, 2003, at 12:39:03
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 3, 2003, at 10:16:49
While re-reading my last post I remembered a really great book (relevent to this thread), from one of my favorite authors that might be of interest to people here. Here it is...
Posted by rayww on July 3, 2003, at 20:40:33
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 3, 2003, at 10:16:49
Perhaps the life you live is the one you agreed upon with God in Heaven before you were born, and the people and places that strike familiar chords were part of that heavenly vision.
I like to think that my parting words with my Heavenly Father were in the form of covenants, He would promise me eternal life with him and I would promise to seek Him till I found Him and keep His commandments.
He would promise to walk beside me, sustain, support me, shower me with his love, offer me peace in the midst of trouble. He would never betray me, or deny me blessings from heaven, he would guide me if I would let him, and keep me from evil. I think God made me a lot of promises that day. looking back over my 60 years minus a few, yes, he has kept his promises.
This "something exciting" that you wish to live in, would you describe it as the "buzz"? Take away my vices and you take away my buzz. But, by taking them away I am better able to recognize the ugly monster and deal with it. There are ways to overpower even that.
Posted by Mercury on July 10, 2003, at 10:50:24
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment » Mercury, posted by rayww on July 3, 2003, at 20:40:33
Ok, so this is now day 11 (I think) on Lex. I have to admit, I feel pretty good. In the last 24 hours, I've noticed that I'm laughing and smiling more than usual. (Which isn't hard to do) And I'm much less stressed over finances. Its sort of a "cest la vie" kinda attitude. I've also felt a bit closer to my kids. Where normally I try to avoid them, its been a bit easier this week to enjoy their presence.
I also went to my first AA meeting on Monday. Yup, that's right..AA. And let me tell you, had aliens landed in my front yard I would not have been as suprised as I was when I said..."Hi may name is ** and I am an alcoholic". It was surreal! But they are a very kind and spiritual bunch of people. The group is obviously set up to help facilitate a feeling of God's presence in one's life. I think I will allow that, and see what happens.
Anyway, so far so good. I'm not drinking. My mood is beginning to improve. And I've started loosing weight! Bonus!
Mercury
Posted by Mercury on July 12, 2003, at 22:02:44
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 10, 2003, at 10:50:24
Ok, day 16 on Lex. (I counted wrong in my last post).
I've been very tired today and took a long nap in the middle of the day. Of course I played softball until 10pm last night and was wiped (2 dingers BTW), so that might have something to do with it. But I definitely feel a lingering sleepiness now during the day. I also have been a bit short tempered with folks in the past few days. Nothing serious but I've noticed that I've been a bit quicker with the nasty remarks. Yesterday I prevented my father from giving a homeless person some spare change. I said they were probably just scamming us for drug money. And while I was probably correct, it goes against my beliefs to deny others because they might take advantage of your generosity. Unless it's clear that your help would damage another, you help for help's sake. In my book, our intent is all that matters.
I've also now gone 5 days without a drink. While that's not unheard of, its been rare over that last 15 years. Maybe that has something to do with it.
I guess I'm kinda cranky. Otherwise...so far so good.
Mercury
Posted by Mercury on July 21, 2003, at 21:19:56
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 12, 2003, at 22:02:44
Day 25 on Lex. Today I spent half the day in therapy. I saw my psychiatrist, and went to 2 AA meetings. I've not had a drink now in 2 weeks. Overall I feel pretty good, yet there's still a strange feeling that something about me is a bit out of wack. I feel a bit manic. Like when your driving a car with that's out of alignment, as long as you hold onto the wheel you go straight. Let go and...well you know. I still have that strange lingering sleepiness all day long. I find that a mid-day nap when I can take one seems to be a healthy thing. At the shrinks office I was suprised by some of the things I admitted to him. Shocked actually. The 45 minutes seemed like 10. At my AA meetings I've finally begun to share my experiences and I am finding that I had really done a good job in my life building up this facade of a person. But as I begin to strip away my prideful arrogance, I'm not liking what I am finding underneath. I convinced myself that I was smarter than everyone else, better looking, more creative, more talented...it went on and on. But its all just a bunch of bull. I've made a mess of my life. I've been selfish, stubborn, self-centered and arrogant beyond measure.
I have a lot of work to do.
Mercury
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 20:14:23
In reply to Re: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Mercury on July 21, 2003, at 21:19:56
> Day 25 on Lex. Today I spent half the day in therapy. I saw my psychiatrist, and went to 2 AA meetings. I've not had a drink now in 2 weeks. Overall I feel pretty good, yet there's still a strange feeling that something about me is a bit out of wack...
I don't want to disrupt this discussion, but could you redirect follow-ups that don't have to do with faith? To Psychological Babble or Psycho-Social-Babble, maybe? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Mercury on July 27, 2003, at 22:40:35
In reply to Redirect: Prescription Enlightenment, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 20:14:23
Its day 31 and the sychronicity is returning to my life. Or perhaps I'm just starting to pay attention to it again. Without going in to long drawn out details, I'll just stay the universe is speaking to me again. And I'm listening.
Mercury
This is the end of the thread.
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