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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 85 to 109 of 117. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:10:38
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
> >You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
>
> Dr. Bob, I realize from past interactions you do think this.
>
> But I really, really, really, really do not think I or others have this power. I really, really, really, really do not think so.
>
> Oh...and I don't mean just TL, of course, I mean in relation to anyone.*yeah, the implication would be we think TL(or anyone) is too dumb. She is so NOT. If she wants to reword, she is more than able to do so. That is her choice.
Sometimes, yes, a person can help a poster who is struggling emotionally. But here TL is just making sense and speaking her piece, thats all.UGH, WHY do I post?????
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:20:16
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
> >You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
>
> Dr. Bob, I realize from past interactions you do think this.
>
> But I really, really, really, really do not think I or others have this power. I really, really, really, really do not think so.True, you may not. I can't know for sure. But I wouldn't assume you don't. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone can compel anyone else to do anything. But I do wonder if posters sometimes underestimate how much they can influence each other. I've seen it happen, it's part of support and education.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
In reply to re: chat, posted by muffled on December 10, 2009, at 11:18:11
> So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:39:47
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:20:16
"But I do wonder if posters sometimes underestimate how much they can influence each other. I've seen it happen, it's part of support and education."
For me its about respecting what TL is trying to say and do.
I don't wish to 'influence' her. Mostly I agree w/her LOL! I respect what she is trying so hard to say and do. That she is making an effort to TRY. That she has put much thot into what she has written, and unsuprizingly...she is getting frustrated.
To me, thats OK and understandable. Now IF she WANTS to reword, that is HER choice to do. She may feel some remorse and wish to say something, or she may still feel that what she said is bang on. That is HER choice.
Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up! But see, here people are trying to make a point, this is admin board, not psychology, so gonna be more plain speaking. This is trying to be AUTHENTIC communication, not b*llsh*t.
So saying sorry for something you genuinely felt and were trying to communicate MUST come from whoever SAID it, not cuz I 'influence' them too. We are adults here, not children.(though yes, I can only agree that we adults often act like children!)But in this case I think its very adult communication.
yeeshhh, why I bother..??
I need to get back to work.
Posted by Deneb on December 15, 2009, at 17:42:57
In reply to re: chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
> > So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
>
> I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
>
> Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
>
> BobOMGosh! That would be great!!! Ahhhh! I'm so excited! So happy! I love having you in chat! Thurs. at 10:30 PM Eastern is terrific! OMG!
I don't celebrate Xmas, but this is a great early Xmas present!
((((((((((((((((Dr. Bob))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks for chatting with us!!
So happy!
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 17:49:06
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:39:47
> yeah, the implication would be we think TL(or anyone) is too dumb. She is so NOT. If she wants to reword, she is more than able to do so. That is her choice.
IMO, the implication would be you want her to be able to continue to participate instead of being blocked. If it's her choice to be blocked, and it's respectful not to try to influence her, does that mean it's respectful for me to block her?
> Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up!
Then why do you even bother asking them to say they're sorry?
Bob
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
I have read over what I wrote, and it reflects what I believe to be true. I can't compromise my integrity in order to placate someone else who holds different views, and who wants to force me to agree with him by means of the power differential which he possesses.. I have already been blocked for about 37 weeks this year.The first time, I readily agreed that I had been uncivil; the other three times, I did not consider the blocks fair or appropriate, as I was objecting to very long blocks given to other posters in what I was sure was a civil manner. Many others joined in objecting to my blocks, Some asked for them to be rescinded, and some even asked for an apology. He is now going to block me for a very long time. He has not blocked anyone since he blocked me for 5 months in July- for courteously objecting to the automatic forwarding of posts to social networks. That action on his part created a huge firestorm here, with many people crossing the line into extreme incivility. He has been sworn at, threatened, insulted and vilified since my last block in July, but he did not block any of those posters, I think that anyone who reads his post to me will not fail to notice the provocative nature of it. But, if I speak up, as I did, in order to assert my right to protection from what definitely felt like subtle abuse by the administrator, he threatens another even longer block. I find it particularly "off" that he is trying to get other people to get me to apologize or retract. They all know I am speaking what I believe to be the truth, and that I would not lie or change my words to prevent punitive actions, no matter how severe they turn out to be. So...I'm a little curious to see how he adds up the math for this next one...
Posted by PartlyCloudy on December 15, 2009, at 18:53:22
In reply to Re: yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
Twinleaf,
Could you email me?
I can be reached at partlycloudy at gmail dot comThanks
and
((((TL))))
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 19:31:35
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 17:49:06
> IMO, the implication would be you want her to be able to continue to participate instead of being blocked. If it's her choice to be blocked, and it's respectful not to try to influence her, does that mean it's respectful for me to block her?
*Bob....OMG, you make me MENTAL! I actually think thats what I like about you as a person to interact with. Your obtuseness just slays me?! At my kids school, I love all the kids, but the challenging ones, I love em too!!! Some are driven crazy by those more obtuse kids, but I find them fascinating human beings. Its like a challenge or something.
So,
How on EARTH did you come up w/THAT reasoning?????? Sometimes I can figure where the h you comming from(more often I cannot), but this one REALLY has me stumped?
I think it would be respectful for you to say that her words hurt you(IF in fact they did) and that you are trying your best (IF you are), and that you accept that you can be very frustrating apparently. You could say you respect her opinion, but cannot (understand?) it.
Stuff like that...
Blocking her summarily is just being kind of a bully IMHO...
Its like you want to communicate w/us as equals( as you should, your sh*t smells too) but then you throw your power around by blocking...
When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...> > Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up!
>
> Then why do you even bother asking them to say they're sorry?*ROFL!!! I KNEW you were gonna ask that!
I say it, cuz its what my Mom said to me! I think its dumb as all get out, but I still do it!
Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 20:09:43
In reply to re: chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
> > So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
>
> I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
>
> Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
>
> BobWell, I could be around, but I not going to chat unless there's others going to be there too...
I don't like idle chat unless we talking about bathroom humour and laffing bout that...
And no friggin blocking if people get upset or cuss some, we can just talk to them...if that don't work, then I guess chats over, thats all.
Simple...
So that where I am at.
And y'know, I don't think I can ever really trust Bob and babble again, but guess I'd just go to chat for old times sake...
WTF eh...lifes short...
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 15, 2009, at 20:13:57
In reply to Re: yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
> I have read over what I wrote, and it reflects what I believe to be true. I can't compromise my integrity in order to placate someone else who holds different views, and who wants to force me to agree with him by means of the power differential which he possesses.. I have already been blocked for about 37 weeks this year.The first time, I readily agreed that I had been uncivil; the other three times, I did not consider the blocks fair or appropriate, as I was objecting to very long blocks given to other posters in what I was sure was a civil manner. Many others joined in objecting to my blocks, Some asked for them to be rescinded, and some even asked for an apology. He is now going to block me for a very long time. He has not blocked anyone since he blocked me for 5 months in July- for courteously objecting to the automatic forwarding of posts to social networks. That action on his part created a huge firestorm here, with many people crossing the line into extreme incivility. He has been sworn at, threatened, insulted and vilified since my last block in July, but he did not block any of those posters, I think that anyone who reads his post to me will not fail to notice the provocative nature of it. But, if I speak up, as I did, in order to assert my right to protection from what definitely felt like subtle abuse by the administrator, he threatens another even longer block. I find it particularly "off" that he is trying to get other people to get me to apologize or retract. They all know I am speaking what I believe to be the truth, and that I would not lie or change my words to prevent punitive actions, no matter how severe they turn out to be. So...I'm a little curious to see how he adds up the math for this next one...
>fl,
You wrote,[...what I wrote...reflects what I believe to be true...I would not lie to change my words to prevent punitive actions...].
I think that there are several good and just aspects of your post here tha deserve comment and exploration by the interested members of the community.
One being that the aspect of what is written is associated with being what is true to you. Now this brings up the thinking as to if something is true to a person, would that allow it to be posted as civil?
If that is allowed, then neo-Nazis could post here what they believe to be true.
Another aspect here is if one retracts what they wrote, could the retraction or apology, then have the punitive action annulled?
The issue though here is that if one apologizes to avoid a punitive action, does an administrative action of allowing an apology to annull a punitive action become in and of itself an unsound mental-health practice? I base this on the historical record where Jews were allowed to avoid expulsion if they converted to another religion. (see for instance the Alhambra Decree)
Now there are other issues here not stated.
Lou
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 20:35:05
In reply to Re: yet another example.... » twinleaf, posted by PartlyCloudy on December 15, 2009, at 18:53:22
nm
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 21:09:31
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
Thank you, 10der and Muffled, for your understanding. This is a difficult situation, so I especially appreciate your words of understanding and support.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:35:47
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
> what appears to be a very negative, and probably sarcastic, taunting frame of mind
Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
I do hope that you choose to remain a member of this community and that this community helps you, if needed, to avoid future blocks.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 20 weeks
period of time since previous block: 3 weeks
severity: 2 (default)
block length = 36.93 rounded = 37 weeks
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 19:31:35
> When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...
I'm not TL's T, however.
> Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
> Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.I try, too.
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:17:07
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
> > When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...
>
> I'm not TL's T, however.*no, but you missed the part about her being your equal...
You missed the part about being a bully...> > Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
> > Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.
>
> I try, too.*I honestly think you do, which is why I still talk to you.
One last thot...my kids sometime suss me pretty bad.
Do I wash their mouths out w/soap?
Do I banish them from my house?
Do I hit them?No.
I TALK to them.
I tell them I love them no matter what.
I tell them it hurts me when they talk to me like that.
Yeah, sometimes I blow and yell, but I apologize to them.
But I DO NOT make them feel like they so horrible that they must be banished :( ostracized cuz they so horrible and bad.
I am being slightly triggered.
I will go now.
Posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2009, at 22:17:08
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:41:53
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:17:07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwUKyztI10
The lunatic is on the grass
The lunatic is on the grass
Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
Got to keep the loonies on the path
The lunatic is in the hall
The lunatics are in my hall
The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.
And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:44:53
In reply to Brain damage-Pink Floyd rules!, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:41:53
Sorry missed some of the lyrics..
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwUKyztI10
>
> The lunatic is on the grass
> The lunatic is on the grass
> Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
> Got to keep the loonies on the path
> The lunatic is in the hall
> The lunatics are in my hall
> The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
> And every day the paper boy brings more
> And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
> And if there is no room upon the hill
> And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
> I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
> The lunatic is in my head
> The lunatic is in my head
> You raise the blade, you make the change
> You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
> You lock the door
> And throw away the key
> There's someone in my head but it's not me.
> And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
> You shout and no one seems to hear
> And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
> I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
>
>
eclipseAll that you touch and all that you see
all that you taste, all you feel
and all that you love and all that you hate
all you distrust, all you save
and all that you give and all that you deal
and all that you buy, beg, borrow or steal
and all you create and all you destroy
and all that you do and all that you say
and all that you eat and everyone you meet
and all that you slight and everyone you fight
and all that is now and all that is gone
and all that's to come and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:49:26
In reply to Re: Brain damage-Pink Floyd rules!-full lyrics, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:44:53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEZBtOXgfug&feature=related
Hello?
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone home?
Come on, Come on, Come on, now,
I hear you're feeling down.
Well, I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again.
Relax.
I'll need some information first.
Just the basic facts.
Can you show me where it hurts?There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child I had a FEVER My hands felt just like two balloons.
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain, you would not understand
This is not how I am.I have become comfortably numb.
(solo)
I have become comfortably numb.O.K.
Just a little pin prick.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick.
Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working, good.
That'll keep you going through the show
Come on it's time to go.There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown,
The dream is gone.
but I have become comfortably numb.
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:56:20
In reply to Re: Brain damage-Pink Floyd rules!-full lyrics, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:44:53
*this vid is a little violent*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3sirNkCV7k&feature=related
Hey you, out there in the cold
Getting lonely, getting old
Can you feel me?
Hey you, standing in the aisles
With itchy feet and fading smiles
Can you feel me?
Hey you, dont help them to bury the light
Don't give in without a fight.Hey you, out there on your own
Sitting naked by the phone
Would you touch me?
Hey you, with you ear against the wall
Waiting for someone to call out
Would you touch me?
Hey you, would you help me to carry the stone?
Open your heart, I'm coming home.But it was only fantasy.
The wall was too high,
As you can see.
No matter how he tried,
He could not break free.
And the worms ate into his brain.Hey you, out there on the road
always doing what you're told,
Can you help me?
Hey you, out there beyond the wall,
Breaking bottles in the hall,
Can you help me?
Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all
Together we stand, divided we fall.
Posted by Sigismund on December 16, 2009, at 0:55:15
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
Taunting? Bob, stop it. Everybody knows.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on December 16, 2009, at 7:04:25
In reply to Hey you *trigger*, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:56:20
((((Muffled))) sorry this is triggering you. This is a rough ride.
pc out from under her rock
Posted by muffled on December 16, 2009, at 9:32:52
In reply to Re: Hey you *trigger* » muffled, posted by PartlyCloudy on December 16, 2009, at 7:04:25
thx PC.
You don't belong under a rock..., mebbe you under a nice tree and have a nice home there...
With soft rugs and a fireplace?
Thats where you belong, not under a rock.
I am ok. I am doing much better than I was say a year ago. :-)
Thx.
M
Posted by PartlyCloudy on December 16, 2009, at 12:53:51
In reply to Re: Hey you *trigger* » PartlyCloudy, posted by muffled on December 16, 2009, at 9:32:52
> I am ok. I am doing much better than I was say a year ago. :-)
> Thx.
> M
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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