![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 77 to 101 of 117. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on December 10, 2009, at 11:23:28
In reply to Re: editing posts after submission » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2009, at 9:16:02
LOL LOL LOL!!!!
Hey mebbe I say a baddie huh?
Hey is d*nkhead a baddie? See I fixed it now.
If so forgive me cuz i be uncivilized!!!!
hate it when I can't figger stuff.
Dunno.
Kinda makin me laff anyhow :)
when in doubt laff yer frikken head off.
Its a good way of thinking :)
I like it anyhows
:)
I like laffin, but I don't want me head to fall off, but DEFINATELY I LOVE laffin!!!
K? Everyboddy can laff and we all be happy :)
Posted by Justherself54 on December 10, 2009, at 12:19:14
In reply to Re: editing posts after submission, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2009, at 5:05:32
> I am hoping he could get some help in running this site. Non babbler help. It is not fair to ask babblers to be admin, deps maybe, but not admin.
> IF he would be willing to let them be a full partner and not override their decisions etc.
> Maybe someone else would be willing to take over this site if Bob was willing to let go of it, just kinda be a silent partner or something...
> Then we can get rid of the darn buttons.
>
> MYou'd like a parent on your side?
When you read what Muffled wrote how did you come up with "you'd like a parent on your side?"?. I really would like to know as it makes no sense to me.
Posted by twinleaf on December 10, 2009, at 15:44:57
In reply to Re: editing posts after submission, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2009, at 5:05:32
When I posted yesterday, I was trying to put into words what I felt the reasons for 100 or more posters leaving Babble were. They nearly all cited feeling "unsafe". I may well not have gotten their exact feelings right, but, overall, they have been pretty clear about their reasons for leaving, as well as their sadness at having to do so.
I was hoping, (still!), that, together with Dr. Bob, we would find a way back to making Babble a vibrant, safe and helpful mental health community.Because of my clear focus on community-wide, rather than personal concerns, I was quite amazed to find Dr. Bob directing my suggestions back at just me, and adding something that I did not say- that I might "feel unsafe if I was not understood by other posters". I have never had the slightest problem with anyone here, other than Dr. Bob! I have shared many personal things which have found resonance with other posters, but, at times, they have felt and thought differently from me- no problem! There has always been a basic trust and respectful tolerance of differences in experience and opinions, combined with a wonderful, warm appreciation of our common experience. If it had not been like that, I would not still be trying to find a way to make it work again. I, and everyone else, would quickly forget Babble.
By responding to me as if only I have problems with him, Dr. Bob is not only trying to put me on the defensive (he will not be successful in that no matter how hard he tries), he is also, for about the thousandth time, avoiding the real problems on this forum, which he has played a major part in creating. I have spent almost all of 2009 being blocked, three times for objecting to the long blocks themselves, and once for objecting to the automatic forwarding of our posts to social networks. I have been blocked, not for incivility (although Dr. Bob has always managed to find some third-party individual whom I "might have hurt."). I have been blocked because I said what I believed and what my moral principles were. During that time, pretty much all of the posters with whom I interacted here, and who grew to mean a lot to me, have pretty much left. In varying ways, they all say the same thing: they do not feel heard or respected, and therefore, they do not feel safe. I am just giving a tiny fraction of the list of posters who decided during the past year that it was not safe enough to remain ( and I don't want to hurt anyone by not mentioning them- it's just that these people made up my own community here, and now they have all left): Partly Cloudy, Stella-by-Starlight, rskontos, Happyflower, alex. Daisy and Dinah.
If we all keep in mind how much Babble meant to us in the past,
wouldn't it be wonderful to begin recreating it, as it was at its' best? And, if we can make it even better, and welcome new people to a great place, wouldn't that be wonderful? Babble at its best was by far the most supportive. informed, and emotionally profound mental health forum around. So many of us know that, and we are, obviously, going to great lengths to get it back! But even the most dedicated of us will give up eventually if we do not receive understanding and respectful responses from Dr. Bob. I would have expected that he would have easily grasped the fact that i was attempting to address generic problems which hundreds of posters have had with Babble, and not personal ones which he thinks his repeated blocks may have caused me. I was asking him to consider the effects that his actions have had on the entire community (not just on me). Nothing more, but definitely nothing less.
Posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
In reply to trying to untwist Dr.Bob's responses to me..., posted by twinleaf on December 10, 2009, at 15:44:57
I mentioned my son receiving an old psychobabble thread on his Facebook account containing identifying information about me in order to give a concrete, recent example of how linking to social networks increases the chances of all of us losing our privacy. It could happen to any of us- with family members, friends, employers, prospective employers, insurers. I was using my own example to make a point about the increased danger of loss of privacy which his actions have for every one of us. This, the main point, and the only point, was completely ignored by him. Does he think that if he ignores or twists reality that it is going to disappear, or automatically become what he says it is/would like it to be?
Given what appears to be a very negative, and probably sarcastic, taunting frame of mind in his comments to me, I do not at all appreciate any comments about how lucky I am that my son respected my privacy. I am not lucky. I know how to raise a son who will feel loved and respected; he;s just treating me the way I've always treated him. I do not appreciate patronizing comments about this from someone who, contrary to all reasonable expectations, has steadily treated me with an extreme degree of lack of respect
Posted by muffled on December 12, 2009, at 19:25:02
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
Sorry peoples been hurt.
I was kinda hopin babble could be Ok, one last time...
but ya, mebbe it too late Bob. You really blew it.
Sorry you can't understand.
I go now.
I sorrys people gots hurt :(
I hate seeing peoples get hurt :(
TGC all.
Life is Ok, we be OK.
Everybody be OK. Life hard but it be OK.
I go now.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 14:07:36
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
> This, the main point, and the only point, was completely ignored by him.
I'm sorry you felt ignored. I do intend to return to that other thread, about the buttons, but haven't had a chance yet.
> what appears to be a very negative, and probably sarcastic, taunting frame of mind
Would anyone like to try to show twinleaf how she might interpret things more charitably, encourage her to apologize, or suggest she not address those she can't get along with? You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 14:46:14
In reply to Re: editing posts after submission, posted by Justherself54 on December 10, 2009, at 12:19:14
> You keep repeating that amending it will lessen hurt feelings, so that wouldn't really explain things to me. Could you expound on that to say what precisely you think a poster would think if they saw the original and then the subsequent post?
First, sorry about not replying sooner. I can't predict what posters would think, but two possibilities that have been suggested are:
1. The poster reads the original and feels hurt. Then they read the revision, see it as an implicit apology, and feel less hurt.
2. The poster reads the original and feels hurt. Then they read the revision, see it as an attempt to avoid administrative consequences, and feel more hurt.
Lots of factors could influence which it would be, but IMO posters have some power to choose their cognitions.
> I get that the amendment of reality doesn't matter enough to stop this change to Babble, even though you understand that it is crazymaking.
>
> DinahEven though I understand it could be crazy making for some people. And similarly, I get that my explanations may not matter enough to change your mind.
--
> When you read what Muffled wrote how did you come up with "you'd like a parent on your side?"?. I really would like to know as it makes no sense to me.
>
> Justherself54I'm not sure, but it made sense to Muffled! :-)
Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 14:07:36
>You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
Dr. Bob, I realize from past interactions you do think this.
But I really, really, really, really do not think I or others have this power. I really, really, really, really do not think so.
Oh...and I don't mean just TL, of course, I mean in relation to anyone.
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:10:38
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
> >You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
>
> Dr. Bob, I realize from past interactions you do think this.
>
> But I really, really, really, really do not think I or others have this power. I really, really, really, really do not think so.
>
> Oh...and I don't mean just TL, of course, I mean in relation to anyone.*yeah, the implication would be we think TL(or anyone) is too dumb. She is so NOT. If she wants to reword, she is more than able to do so. That is her choice.
Sometimes, yes, a person can help a poster who is struggling emotionally. But here TL is just making sense and speaking her piece, thats all.UGH, WHY do I post?????
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:20:16
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
> >You have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
>
> Dr. Bob, I realize from past interactions you do think this.
>
> But I really, really, really, really do not think I or others have this power. I really, really, really, really do not think so.True, you may not. I can't know for sure. But I wouldn't assume you don't. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone can compel anyone else to do anything. But I do wonder if posters sometimes underestimate how much they can influence each other. I've seen it happen, it's part of support and education.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
In reply to re: chat, posted by muffled on December 10, 2009, at 11:18:11
> So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:39:47
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:20:16
"But I do wonder if posters sometimes underestimate how much they can influence each other. I've seen it happen, it's part of support and education."
For me its about respecting what TL is trying to say and do.
I don't wish to 'influence' her. Mostly I agree w/her LOL! I respect what she is trying so hard to say and do. That she is making an effort to TRY. That she has put much thot into what she has written, and unsuprizingly...she is getting frustrated.
To me, thats OK and understandable. Now IF she WANTS to reword, that is HER choice to do. She may feel some remorse and wish to say something, or she may still feel that what she said is bang on. That is HER choice.
Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up! But see, here people are trying to make a point, this is admin board, not psychology, so gonna be more plain speaking. This is trying to be AUTHENTIC communication, not b*llsh*t.
So saying sorry for something you genuinely felt and were trying to communicate MUST come from whoever SAID it, not cuz I 'influence' them too. We are adults here, not children.(though yes, I can only agree that we adults often act like children!)But in this case I think its very adult communication.
yeeshhh, why I bother..??
I need to get back to work.
Posted by Deneb on December 15, 2009, at 17:42:57
In reply to re: chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
> > So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
>
> I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
>
> Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
>
> BobOMGosh! That would be great!!! Ahhhh! I'm so excited! So happy! I love having you in chat! Thurs. at 10:30 PM Eastern is terrific! OMG!
I don't celebrate Xmas, but this is a great early Xmas present!
((((((((((((((((Dr. Bob))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks for chatting with us!!
So happy!
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 17:49:06
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 15:39:47
> yeah, the implication would be we think TL(or anyone) is too dumb. She is so NOT. If she wants to reword, she is more than able to do so. That is her choice.
IMO, the implication would be you want her to be able to continue to participate instead of being blocked. If it's her choice to be blocked, and it's respectful not to try to influence her, does that mean it's respectful for me to block her?
> Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up!
Then why do you even bother asking them to say they're sorry?
Bob
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
I have read over what I wrote, and it reflects what I believe to be true. I can't compromise my integrity in order to placate someone else who holds different views, and who wants to force me to agree with him by means of the power differential which he possesses.. I have already been blocked for about 37 weeks this year.The first time, I readily agreed that I had been uncivil; the other three times, I did not consider the blocks fair or appropriate, as I was objecting to very long blocks given to other posters in what I was sure was a civil manner. Many others joined in objecting to my blocks, Some asked for them to be rescinded, and some even asked for an apology. He is now going to block me for a very long time. He has not blocked anyone since he blocked me for 5 months in July- for courteously objecting to the automatic forwarding of posts to social networks. That action on his part created a huge firestorm here, with many people crossing the line into extreme incivility. He has been sworn at, threatened, insulted and vilified since my last block in July, but he did not block any of those posters, I think that anyone who reads his post to me will not fail to notice the provocative nature of it. But, if I speak up, as I did, in order to assert my right to protection from what definitely felt like subtle abuse by the administrator, he threatens another even longer block. I find it particularly "off" that he is trying to get other people to get me to apologize or retract. They all know I am speaking what I believe to be the truth, and that I would not lie or change my words to prevent punitive actions, no matter how severe they turn out to be. So...I'm a little curious to see how he adds up the math for this next one...
Posted by PartlyCloudy on December 15, 2009, at 18:53:22
In reply to Re: yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
Twinleaf,
Could you email me?
I can be reached at partlycloudy at gmail dot comThanks
and
((((TL))))
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 19:31:35
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 17:49:06
> IMO, the implication would be you want her to be able to continue to participate instead of being blocked. If it's her choice to be blocked, and it's respectful not to try to influence her, does that mean it's respectful for me to block her?
*Bob....OMG, you make me MENTAL! I actually think thats what I like about you as a person to interact with. Your obtuseness just slays me?! At my kids school, I love all the kids, but the challenging ones, I love em too!!! Some are driven crazy by those more obtuse kids, but I find them fascinating human beings. Its like a challenge or something.
So,
How on EARTH did you come up w/THAT reasoning?????? Sometimes I can figure where the h you comming from(more often I cannot), but this one REALLY has me stumped?
I think it would be respectful for you to say that her words hurt you(IF in fact they did) and that you are trying your best (IF you are), and that you accept that you can be very frustrating apparently. You could say you respect her opinion, but cannot (understand?) it.
Stuff like that...
Blocking her summarily is just being kind of a bully IMHO...
Its like you want to communicate w/us as equals( as you should, your sh*t smells too) but then you throw your power around by blocking...
When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...> > Its like when one of my kids wacks a sibling. I say to them, say your sorry. They say sorry. ROFL, they are so NOT sorry and both they AND their sib knows they not. They just saying sorry to shut me up!
>
> Then why do you even bother asking them to say they're sorry?*ROFL!!! I KNEW you were gonna ask that!
I say it, cuz its what my Mom said to me! I think its dumb as all get out, but I still do it!
Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 20:09:43
In reply to re: chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 15:24:07
> > So like for me 7:30 pacific coast, which be mebbe 9:30 central? is good but mebbe that late I dunno.
>
> I hope it's not too late to give this a try. How about this Thu. 12/17 at 9:30 pm Central?
>
> Also, I was thinking maybe we could start with an admin chat, then set that aside and finish with a holiday chat? :-)
>
> BobWell, I could be around, but I not going to chat unless there's others going to be there too...
I don't like idle chat unless we talking about bathroom humour and laffing bout that...
And no friggin blocking if people get upset or cuss some, we can just talk to them...if that don't work, then I guess chats over, thats all.
Simple...
So that where I am at.
And y'know, I don't think I can ever really trust Bob and babble again, but guess I'd just go to chat for old times sake...
WTF eh...lifes short...
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 15, 2009, at 20:13:57
In reply to Re: yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 18:11:50
> I have read over what I wrote, and it reflects what I believe to be true. I can't compromise my integrity in order to placate someone else who holds different views, and who wants to force me to agree with him by means of the power differential which he possesses.. I have already been blocked for about 37 weeks this year.The first time, I readily agreed that I had been uncivil; the other three times, I did not consider the blocks fair or appropriate, as I was objecting to very long blocks given to other posters in what I was sure was a civil manner. Many others joined in objecting to my blocks, Some asked for them to be rescinded, and some even asked for an apology. He is now going to block me for a very long time. He has not blocked anyone since he blocked me for 5 months in July- for courteously objecting to the automatic forwarding of posts to social networks. That action on his part created a huge firestorm here, with many people crossing the line into extreme incivility. He has been sworn at, threatened, insulted and vilified since my last block in July, but he did not block any of those posters, I think that anyone who reads his post to me will not fail to notice the provocative nature of it. But, if I speak up, as I did, in order to assert my right to protection from what definitely felt like subtle abuse by the administrator, he threatens another even longer block. I find it particularly "off" that he is trying to get other people to get me to apologize or retract. They all know I am speaking what I believe to be the truth, and that I would not lie or change my words to prevent punitive actions, no matter how severe they turn out to be. So...I'm a little curious to see how he adds up the math for this next one...
>fl,
You wrote,[...what I wrote...reflects what I believe to be true...I would not lie to change my words to prevent punitive actions...].
I think that there are several good and just aspects of your post here tha deserve comment and exploration by the interested members of the community.
One being that the aspect of what is written is associated with being what is true to you. Now this brings up the thinking as to if something is true to a person, would that allow it to be posted as civil?
If that is allowed, then neo-Nazis could post here what they believe to be true.
Another aspect here is if one retracts what they wrote, could the retraction or apology, then have the punitive action annulled?
The issue though here is that if one apologizes to avoid a punitive action, does an administrative action of allowing an apology to annull a punitive action become in and of itself an unsound mental-health practice? I base this on the historical record where Jews were allowed to avoid expulsion if they converted to another religion. (see for instance the Alhambra Decree)
Now there are other issues here not stated.
Lou
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 20:35:05
In reply to Re: yet another example.... » twinleaf, posted by PartlyCloudy on December 15, 2009, at 18:53:22
nm
Posted by twinleaf on December 15, 2009, at 21:09:31
In reply to Re: being blocked again » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2009, at 14:56:16
Thank you, 10der and Muffled, for your understanding. This is a difficult situation, so I especially appreciate your words of understanding and support.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:35:47
In reply to yet another example...., posted by twinleaf on December 12, 2009, at 9:21:03
> what appears to be a very negative, and probably sarcastic, taunting frame of mind
Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
I do hope that you choose to remain a member of this community and that this community helps you, if needed, to avoid future blocks.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 20 weeks
period of time since previous block: 3 weeks
severity: 2 (default)
block length = 36.93 rounded = 37 weeks
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 19:31:35
> When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...
I'm not TL's T, however.
> Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
> Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.I try, too.
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 15, 2009, at 22:17:07
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
> > When I have a disagreement w/my T, we talk it thru, she doesn't banish me from her office...
>
> I'm not TL's T, however.*no, but you missed the part about her being your equal...
You missed the part about being a bully...> > Occassionally I do lecture them about what 'sorry' is about, but there is not point in doing it while they all agitated cuz they won't listen. So I lecture them later.(and they still barely listen-but I TRY!)
> > Also, depending on what happened, I'll talk to them about appropriate behaviour and WHY. I don't know that my son 'gets' it (hmmm, reminds me of Bob...) but I try.
>
> I try, too.*I honestly think you do, which is why I still talk to you.
One last thot...my kids sometime suss me pretty bad.
Do I wash their mouths out w/soap?
Do I banish them from my house?
Do I hit them?No.
I TALK to them.
I tell them I love them no matter what.
I tell them it hurts me when they talk to me like that.
Yeah, sometimes I blow and yell, but I apologize to them.
But I DO NOT make them feel like they so horrible that they must be banished :( ostracized cuz they so horrible and bad.
I am being slightly triggered.
I will go now.
Posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2009, at 22:17:08
In reply to Re: what 'sorry' is about, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:44
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.