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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 152 to 176 of 193. Go back in thread:
Posted by Nadezda on November 2, 2009, at 10:38:18
In reply to Re: my name » Dr. Bob, posted by cactus on November 2, 2009, at 2:42:07
Think of it this way, cactus. Someone who uses twitter is not a "twitter user" and someone from Babble is not a "babble user"-- or, put another way way, there's nothing about being a user of one or the other forum (twitter or babble) that defines what type of person one is, what honor or morality one has, and what respect for other people one has.
There are lots of good people on Babble and lots of good people who use twitter; in fact, there's really nothing per se that distinguishes us from them, except that we happen to have found and come to this site.
Really once someone from twitter does a search for say a drug, and finds a tweet from babble about that drug and comes here-- how is that person different from someone who used google for searches and found Babble by searching for drug information there. --Which, by the way, is how I found Babble several years ago--
Once someone who searched/searches google for information or help-- or searches twitter for information and help-- comes here-- they are, in essence, no longer a twitter user-- they've become a babble user.
Maybe you think of twitter as this negative, superficial place full of bullies and people with bad motives-- But that may also be your fears of the unknown--
There are people here and there with mixed motives and conflicts and strengths and weaknesses. Give this new opening a chance. If it turns out to be a terrible thing, you can reevaluate. But maybe if you can just give it time, you'll find that nothing essential about babble or your experience will change-- and that our community will be what it has been--- with its strengths and weaknesses-- and potential for learning and growth.
Nadezda
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 13:34:56
In reply to Re: my name » Dr. Bob, posted by cactus on November 2, 2009, at 2:42:07
> tweets are sent out to others on purpose. It's actually not that different to being spammed with trash in your inbox. It's a massive difference in my book mate.
> Twitter is spam that is received without asking for it.
Actually, you choose whom you "follow" on Twitter. And if they tweet you what you consider spam, you can "unfollow" them.
> I think it will bring bullies in, without question. I hope it doesn't though, for everyone's peace of mind and all the wonderful people who made this place somewhere for me to seek refuge in times of crisis.
I think one reason for us-them thinking can be seeing in others what we don't like about ourselves. Babblers are wonderful. Yes, much of the time. As has been mentioned above, Babblers are also sometimes bullies, or at least can lead others to feel bullied. And being uncivil doesn't necessarily mean being a bully, but this is already my fourth PBC on this thread.
> Good luck Dr. Bob, I feel you are not the ethical person I thought you were and I don't appreciate you trying to sugar coat your deceptive lies using me as an example and taking the excerpts of my posts that suited you. I felt that that was passive aggressive bullying on your behalf. I also felt like that was the biggest bitter pill I've ever had to swallow.
Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks for wishing me good luck. I'm sorry this pill has been so big,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 14:13:19
In reply to Re: another setting, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2009, at 3:05:47
> PS: I haven't gotten to some posts yet, I'll reply to them later.
Sorry it's taken so long.
> Bullying is such a huge issue for me that I can't be in a place where bullying is tolerated, much less enabled. Dr. Bob knows that, or at least he did know it, perhaps he's forgotten. To have him constantly talking about us being afraid of having newcomers come to Babble as the reason we're upset is sooooo distressing to me. I don't know anyone who doesn't want people here. And altogether I think he's focusing on the wrong side of the issue. It's the use of our posts that distresses me, not that I'm afraid of hordes of people joining Babble because of Twitter or Facebook.
>
> It's a shame that Dr. Bob just doesn't listen, or if he listens, doesn't hear. He's reminding me a lot of my middle school teachers.
>
> DinahI didn't mean to imply that there was only one reason people were upset.
In this case, it was people clicking on the button to make the number go up that led you to feel bullied? I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to tell who did that (which may have been what your teachers said, too). There may be posters who try to start arguments and upset people. Here, as in middle school, it may be best just not to respond. And you have some control over those buttons now.
--
> We are oil and water, we do not mix.
>
> muffledWell, we certainly aren't living happily ever after. But maybe we could be oil and vinegar instead?
> This happens over and over and over again. And worse, it *just* happened and over the same topic. It is hard for me to accept that you would do this again about this topic when the whole opt out compromise was so recently reached. That is part of what made this so shocking and disappointing for me. I can only imagine what those who had opted out felt about it. You basically made that list useless when doing this, which indicated to me a lot about how you felt about posters.
>
> Right now there's this whole distressing dynamic going on. You have an idea. You see Babble as yours, and see no reason to consult with Babblers. You present the idea as a done deal. Babblers get upset and leave in droves. Babblers feel hurt and betrayed and angry. You may well feel resentful, because they are being obstructive to your purposes. Even after a compromise is reached, hurt lingers on each side. Like in a bad marriage. Or at least that's how it seems to me. I could be wrong.
>
> Until this dynamic changes, this would just be yet another time this scenario plays out.
>
> I'm weary of the whole cycle. While I think this is a reasonable compromise ... as long as your attitude towards Babblers remains the same, this will be just one in a long stream of these experiences.
>
> DinahI started out adding buttons that just linked to the Psycho-Babble Facebook page and @psycho_babel on Twitter. But then I saw these buttons and thought they'd be more effective. In retrospect, I switched buttons and moved ahead too quickly, and I apologize for that.
At the same time, Babblers got upset and left pretty quickly, too. Why do you say the opt-out list became useless? It helped others, just as it helped me, to know the preferences of posters. And what made you think it was a done deal? There isn't much here that isn't open to revision.
I'm also weary. There was (and still is) a lot of anxiety to address and a lot of information to provide. I've really appreciated the help of those of you who are already familiar with Facebook and Twitter.
I see the cycle of understanding and misunderstanding as to some extent inevitable in any partnership. It can be frustrating at times for all of us, and how much we can change each other is limited.
For me, the benefits outweigh the frustrations. I feel good seeing posters supporting and educating each other. I learn a lot about people and groups (and myself). I feel honored by your trust.
Posters can benefit from belonging to a community in which others help them and they help others. But they may feel frustrated, too. There are tradeoffs here. It's open, but that means it's less private. It's inclusive, but that means bullies can join (and rejoin after blocks). I try to keep it civil, but that means having rules, and I and they are both imperfect. I introduce innovations, but that means changes to adjust to and kinks to work out. It may not be a good fit for some of you. But if you're willing to accept the tradeoffs, I welcome the opportunity to continue to work with you here.
Can we remain patient with each other and try to work out our differences? If so, we can keep this a supportive and educational and vibrant community. I'm committed to doing my best to understand your needs and concerns and to explain mine. Anybody else?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 14:24:24
In reply to Re: another cycle, posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 14:13:19
You know I am always open to rapprochement, not just with you, but in general.
Will you be willing to commit to bring these things up on board before doing them? This could have all turned out so differently if you'd have just talked about it first. Part of the reaction was just seeing the links there with no warning, no explanation, no nothing. The same compromise could have been reached without all the distress.
When I asked that you show us the same respect we should ideally show you, that's part of what I meant. That you explain instead of having us try to guess. And that you try to listen to what we're actually saying. If we say you aren't hearing, could you stop and listen?
I admit that I wasn't always as prudent and reasonable as I would like to see myself as being. There are things that push my buttons big time, and this contained a lot of them. The topic of bullying is huge for me. As is respect. And expectations of you.
Are you saying that you found yourself upset that people jumped to the worst possible conclusions?
If we're willing to try to give you the benefit of the doubt, are you willing to commit to giving us information ahead of time, and listening to our concerns ahead of time?
If there's a bigger problem here than the most obvious, and I think maybe there is, isn't it important that both sides talk about what their expectations of each other might be?
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 14:30:30
In reply to Re: another cycle, posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 14:13:19
> In retrospect, I switched buttons and moved ahead too quickly, and I apologize for that.
Incidentally, you use this phrase a lot and it's part of what leads me to react quickly. I infer that you are planning a certain course, and that your only concern is not following it too quickly. And that whatever compromises you make now may not be seen as permanent, but just a step in moving more slowly.
It isn't moving too quickly that we need you to accept responsibility and express regret for.
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 14:34:32
In reply to Re: another cycle, posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 14:13:19
My middle school teachers didn't tell me that they didn't know who did things, but they did tell me that if I just didn't react, they'd leave me alone. It may be a true statement, but it never has managed to be helpful to me.
And partnerships don't have to have cycles like this. The partners can agree to rules of engagement. The behaviors that lead to these cycles, on both sides, is a choice. But it's not a choice that can be made unilaterally. It is an agreement, a mutual choice.
Posted by antigua3 on November 2, 2009, at 17:27:21
In reply to involuntary tweet / facebook options?, posted by floatingbridge on October 25, 2009, at 20:20:45
I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but I'm totally lost and will read all the posts, but right now my immediate concern is that I asked not to be twittered, tweeted or Facebooked, but those icons show up on the bottom of my posts. Does that mean my wish wasn't respected? If so, it's not clear how I fix that. Can someone help me?
antigua
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:29:36
In reply to Re: involuntary tweet / facebook options?, posted by antigua3 on November 2, 2009, at 17:27:21
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/settings.pl
You can opt out here now. And this one doesn't rely on a list.
Posted by antigua3 on November 2, 2009, at 17:38:54
In reply to Re: involuntary tweet / facebook options?, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:29:36
Thanks, they're gone now. But I'm annoyed that my previous request was not respected.
antigua
Posted by Kath on November 2, 2009, at 17:41:13
In reply to Re: involuntary tweet / facebook options?, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:29:36
(unless I'm wrong)
that if a thread goes to T. or FB & we have posted in that thread, our post will show.
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I think I'm not.
Kath
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:44:57
In reply to I think it's important to realize, posted by Kath on November 2, 2009, at 17:41:13
If someone follows the link, they'll reach babble where your post will show. It won't actually show on Twitter or Facebook.
I don't like this whole idea more than your average babbler, but I think it's important for people to understand what is and isn't happening.
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:48:03
In reply to Re: involuntary tweet / facebook options? » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on November 2, 2009, at 17:38:54
I understand. Respect is a core need.
Posted by cactus on November 2, 2009, at 21:49:34
In reply to I think it's important to realize, posted by Kath on November 2, 2009, at 17:41:13
> (unless I'm wrong)
>
> that if a thread goes to T. or FB & we have posted in that thread, our post will show.
>
> I hope I'm wrong about this, but I think I'm not.
>
> KathYes Kath, that is exactly what's happening, Bob actually conceded that point in an above post. Peace Kath, that's what had upset me so much, but I have calmed down now.
If you click on a tweet on tiny (Psyco Babel's Twitter Homepage) and you have responded to that tweet in babble, it then links straight back to psychobabble and the thread in babble you have responded to, and your name does appear. C
That's all I have been trying to say all along and I don't like it.
Posted by Kath on November 2, 2009, at 22:20:04
In reply to Re: I think it's important to realize » Kath, posted by cactus on November 2, 2009, at 21:49:34
> Yes Kath, that is exactly what's happening, Bob actually conceded that point in an above post. Peace Kath, that's what had upset me so much, but I have calmed down now.
>
> If you click on a tweet on tiny (Psyco Babel's Twitter Homepage) and you have responded to that tweet in babble, it then links straight back to psychobabble and the thread in babble you have responded to, and your name does appear. C
>
> That's all I have been trying to say all along and I don't like it.So that's on the "psycho Babel Twitter Homepage". Do you know if the same thing happens if someone puts a post on their Twitter or Facebook site???
I don't like it either.
Kath
Posted by Kath on November 2, 2009, at 22:25:05
In reply to Re: I think it's important to realize » Kath, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:44:57
> If someone follows the link, they'll reach babble where your post will show. It won't actually show on Twitter or Facebook.
>
> I don't like this whole idea more than your average babbler, but I think it's important for people to understand what is and isn't happening.Okay - point taken.
I agree that it's important for people to understand what is & isn't happening. I also think it's important for person X to know that removing the buttons from posts in person X's name does not mean that their posts won't be seen if someone clicks on a post on T or FB & person X has written a post on that thread.
Kath
PS - unless I'm wrong.
Posted by rskontos on November 3, 2009, at 21:01:36
In reply to Re: another cycle » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 14:30:30
Well said dinah, as always.
rsk
Posted by antigua3 on November 8, 2009, at 19:27:32
In reply to Re: involuntary tweet / facebook options? » antigua3, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2009, at 17:48:03
Posted by okydoky on December 15, 2009, at 19:07:53
In reply to Re: tweet / facebook options, posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2009, at 4:59:06
I am curious after reading through this entire thread if this is "Bob's" ENTIRE answer to all the questions about why... Facebook/Twitter ?
***Like you, however, Facebook and Twitter users are real people who can benefit from support and education. Sharing and tweeting might lead them to the many thoughtful and intelligent posts here, and then they might join Babble and contribute new perspectives and energy. I think good can come of this -- for current posters, for new posters, and for this community as a whole.***
***I don't think it would necessarily be sick, twisted, outrageous, or demeaning to share/tweet a post about suicidality or rape or abuse. People post in the first place because they're looking for support or information, and they're more likely to find it if more people see their post.
Bob***
Is this "YOUR" opinion and/or "YOUR" reasoning?
oky
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 10, 2010, at 2:11:10
In reply to Re: tweet / facebook options » Dr. Bob, posted by okydoky on December 15, 2009, at 19:07:53
> Is this "YOUR" opinion and/or "YOUR" reasoning?
Yes, I wouldn't have posted it otherwise...
Bob
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 7:56:55
Hi admin people :-)
I know you've probably covered this ad nauseum, but if you would humor me...I was gone when all this started.
I came across the page where I can select whether or not I want the tweet/share buttons on my posts. I selected no.
Does this mean that none of my posts will go to facebook and twitter? Or does it just mean I can't use those tools? Can you, and other posters share/tweet my posts to fb and twitter?
Dr. Bob, do I have the option to request/select that my posts not be moved to other sites? I'm really not looking for a debate, I just want to make sure I understand your current policies. I'm still catchin up.
Thanx in advance for your reply,
~Jade
Posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 8:39:02
In reply to Dr. Bob or Deputy, FB/Tweet questions, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 7:56:55
Hello Jade,
I'm not admin or a deputy, but I can answer your question.
> Does this mean that none of my posts will go to facebook and twitter?
It means people can't put your posts on their facebook or twitter via the buttons, but there is nothing to stop people from copy and pasting your post onto any site on the web (as is the case with any forum). Since you turned the buttons off, it means there is no button for people to impulsively tweet or facebook your posts.
> Or does it just mean I can't use those tools?
It means you and others can't tweet or facebook your posts via the buttons. Other people don't see the buttons on your posts too.
> Can you, and other posters share/tweet my posts to fb and twitter?
Anyone on the Internet can share/tweet your posts to facebook and twitter by just copy and pasting, just like with any other site on the Internet. Without the buttons however, people are not given an option to impulsively do so.
> Dr. Bob, do I have the option to request/select that my posts not be moved to other sites?
Getting rid of the buttons means Dr. Bob won't tweet or share your posts on Facebook. It also tells other posters that you do not want your posts to be tweeted or shared, but in theory there is no way to prevent others from copy and pasting your posts onto other sites, as is the case with anything online.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 8:56:11
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob or Deputy, FB/Tweet questions, posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 8:39:02
Hey Deneb,
Dr. Bob needs to sign you on. Thank you for the clear and complete post, I wasn't expecting that so fast. No further response is needed :-)
~Jade
ps-I feel better now, my posts aren't worth cutting and pasting...
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 15:01:42
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob or Deputy, FB/Tweet questions, posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 8:39:02
> > Or does it just mean I can't use those tools?
>
> It means you and others can't tweet or facebook your posts via the buttons. Other people don't see the buttons on your posts too.But you can still use those tools on other posts (when those posters leave them turned on).
> ps-I feel better now, my posts aren't worth cutting and pasting...
Are your questions worth answering? Sharing or tweeting your posts could help you get your questions answered.
And of course assuming your posts aren't worth cutting and pasting could be seen as an example of the LWE. :-)
Bob
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 16:22:48
In reply to Re: FB/Tweet questions, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 15:01:42
> > > Or does it just mean I can't use those tools?
> >
> > It means you and others can't tweet or facebook your posts via the buttons. Other people don't see the buttons on your posts too.
>
> But you can still use those tools on other posts (when those posters leave them turned on).
>
> > ps-I feel better now, my posts aren't worth cutting and pasting...
>
> Are your questions worth answering? Sharing or tweeting your posts could help you get your questions answered.
>
> And of course assuming your posts aren't worth cutting and pasting could be seen as an example of the LWE. :-)
>
> BobDr. Bob,
As always, with all due respect, do you often have to ask yourself if a person is joking or not? Feel like maybe you dont "get" certain kinds of humor? (just as I have never gotten yours?)
"ps-I feel better now, my posts aren't worth cutting and pasting..."
Anyone who knows me would know I was kidding. I was just relieved that I'd made it more difficult for people to send my posts to sites [where I know people!] I know that doesn't make you happy, but it was my choice.
> Are your questions worth answering? Sharing or tweeting your posts {{could help you}} get your questions answered.
Yes, and no thank you. I do just fine.
> And of course assuming your posts aren't worth cutting and pasting could be seen as an example of the LWE. :-)
And of course, here we go again. You don't know me Dr. Bob. Please stop looking for ways to prove that my self worth is flawed in some way. YOU may not like me, and I'm okay with that. Can't please everyone, right? Please know that my sense of self esteem is strongly in tact :-)
"Poor Jade, she was once so proud to be a babbler, ohh, woe be her!"
see? joking.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2010, at 15:21:23
In reply to Re: FB/Tweet questions » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 16:22:48
> > ps-I feel better now, my posts aren't worth cutting and pasting...
>
> Anyone who knows me would know I was kidding.Sorry, I guess I don't know you, at least not well enough.
Bob
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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