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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by seldomseen on July 26, 2008, at 12:21:16
In reply to Phillipa gave bad info. went to hospital -stalker, posted by willy billy on July 25, 2008, at 13:37:29
you know? one does have to wonder sometimes. There have been numerous complaints regarding this one poster.
I wonder how many are required before someone says "hey, maybe there is something to this"
Seldom
Posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 15:28:37
In reply to Re: Phillipa gave bad info. went to hospital -stalker, posted by seldomseen on July 26, 2008, at 12:21:16
There is no way for someone like me to know whether or not there have been any private communications, distressing or otherwise. However, there is another aspect to these complaints which has come up several times: excessive posting. Often, nearly every active thread is responded to, without regard to whether or not something useful can be offered. One of the things about Babble that I have always liked is that individual posters have an excellent sense of which posts to respond to. In addition to those who offer welcomes, others know when, and to whom, to offer emotional support or psychological interpretations. Others have extensive experience about medications, often backed up with extensive reading of the medical literature; their thoughts about medication choices are extremely valuable to all of us. This natural self-selection as to when to post has had the result of making the quality of the entries here quite high. When we have posters who respond to almost everything , without waiting until they have something real to offer which comes out of their own knowledge and experience, the overall quality of our site begins to go down. I feel this is very relevant to the discussion in Administration about whether or not Babble will have a healthy future.
The way the rules of Babble are presently set up, it is very easy to reprimand a poster who criticizes another poster. But it is far more difficult for posters who have legitimate concerns or complaints about the conduct of a site to gain a hearing. In the present situation, the exact same concerns have been mentioned by different posters several times. Does Administration have anything constructive it can do to return the boards to their previous level of functioning?
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 15:40:11
In reply to Re: Phillipa gave bad info. went to hospital -stalker, posted by seldomseen on July 26, 2008, at 12:21:16
> There have been numerous complaints regarding this one poster. I wonder how many are required before someone says "hey, maybe there is something to this"
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others by not posting anything that could lead them to feel accused, and if you have a problem with any poster, e.g., the content of posts, their posting habits, or something else, please use the Notify Administrators button, located at the bottom of the posting window, instead of posting that publicly, per the site guidelines.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by fayeroe on July 26, 2008, at 17:38:45
In reply to multiple complaints..., posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 15:28:37
> There is no way for someone like me to know whether or not there have been any private communications, distressing or otherwise. However, there is another aspect to these complaints which has come up several times: excessive posting. Often, nearly every active thread is responded to, without regard to whether or not something useful can be offered.
And? We do not have to read every post on Babble. If you don't feel like you're going to gain something from a post, move on. We do not have to read it!
One of the things about Babble that I have always liked is that individual posters have an excellent sense of which posts to respond to. In addition to those who offer welcomes, others know when, and to whom, to offer emotional support or psychological interpretations. Others have extensive experience about medications, often backed up with extensive reading of the medical literature; their thoughts about medication choices are extremely valuable to all of us. This natural self-selection as to when to post has had the result of making the quality of the entries here quite high. When we have posters who respond to almost everything , without waiting until they have something real to offer which comes out of their own knowledge and experience, the overall quality of our site begins to go down. I feel this is very relevant to the discussion in Administration about whether or not Babble will die"
I feel that I write "high quality posts" on Babble. I've been here for about 5 years and am yet to feel that my abilities to post intelligently can be affected by another's post.
"This natural self-selection as to when to post"
This thread is a prime example of the above sentence. "natural self-selection".
>
> The way the rules of Babble are presently set up, it is very easy to reprimand a poster who criticizes another poster. But it is far more difficult for posters who have legitimate concerns or complaints about the conduct of a site to gain a hearing. In the present situation, the exact same concerns have been mentioned by different posters several times. Does Administration have anything constructive it can do to return the boards to their previous level of functioning?I am still curious about how another person's posting affects the functioning of Babble.
Pat
Posted by AbbieNormal on July 26, 2008, at 19:52:31
In reply to multiple complaints..., posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 15:28:37
Again and again...
Maybe for some people the task of not opening posts which they suspect they won't like is too overwhelming? Maybe those NEW tags irk them? maybe OCD forces people to open all new posts? I don't know what the issue is. There is some symptomology which escapes me I guess.
Maybe people could try harder? I'm sure that NOT OPENING posts is skill which can be developed.
Abbie
Posted by fayeroe on July 26, 2008, at 19:54:56
In reply to multiple responses, posted by AbbieNormal on July 26, 2008, at 19:52:31
Posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 20:50:27
In reply to Re: multiple complaints... » twinleaf, posted by fayeroe on July 26, 2008, at 17:38:45
Insulting responses like yours, dripping with sarcasm and hostility, but, of course, carefully crafted to stop just short of that fine line which will get you a PBC, seem to be pretty much expected responses on Babble now.
Large numbers of empty, uninformative posts are going to diminish the value of this site in the eyes of anyone who looks. That was my point. Unwarranted hostility towards fellow posters, such as you have shown towards me, is going to do that also. I don't know why you are wasting your time annoying and insulting me, rather than giving your opinion for or against the point I was making. I DO NOT READ THE POSTS IN QUESTION, but, like everyone, I am aware that they are there.
If the poster in question would confine her responses to topics about which she has personal knowledge and experience, that would be great. From memory, posts of hers which did that were very welcome.
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 20:53:37
In reply to multiple complaints..., posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 15:28:37
> nearly every active thread is responded to, without regard to whether or not something useful can be offered.
>posters who respond to almost everything, without waiting until they have something real to offer
>the overall quality of our site begins to go down.I'm going to ask you to please not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, such as those who respond to "almost everything" or post to a lot of threads.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
>But it is far more difficult for posters who have legitimate concerns or complaints about the conduct of a site to gain a hearing.
As part of the administration here, I think we're willing to listen to most anything that concerns posters - thus the existence of this sometimes very *active* board! But - and I am likely misunderstanding - I'm not sure what you mean by difficult. As long as posts are civil, posters are free to voice their concerns and complaints here. If posters can't figure out how to word something within the guidelines, they are welcome to Babblemail the deputies for assistance. Some areas are still problematic, true, and those are probably best handled privately, by email to Dr. Bob.
Whether either method will get an actual *hearing* is certainly an excellent point, and perhaps that is what you meant? I have no idea if or when Dr. Bob might reply to emails. I think I've emailed him once or twice in 4+ years. And (I realize I'm stating the obvious to many) as Dr. Bob presently spends very little time here, and he is the only one that can bring about changes posters might want, well.....the issue remains :-( It does feel very frustrating when he is sporadically/rarely available for discussions.
>Does Administration have anything constructive it can do to return the boards to their previous level of functioning?
I guess I don't understand this in relation to the prior posts on this thread. Even if Dr. Bob showed interest in limiting number or frequency of posts (which he has not so far, to my knowledge), I'm unclear how this would be a way to return Babble to what it was at some point in the past. These ideas seem so very subjective to me, e.g., the meanings of "constructive" "previous level of functioning," as well as characterizations like "useful" "something real to offer," and so forth - don't they all mean vastly different things to different people? Also, perhaps some posters think Babble is functioning well, or at least - well enough?
I'm sorry it sounds like you don't feel heard; I wish I could offer something more constructive.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on July 26, 2008, at 22:57:57
In reply to Please be civil » twinleaf, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 20:53:37
It strikes me that the behavior being described could be a manifestation, in part, of a mental illness, a physical illness or disability, cultural factors, personality, etc. or simply a habit or preference. Is any one reason for "it" more acceptable than another? Is it "okay" if it's a person with Lou Gehrig's disease who is essentially a shut in, and relies on an internet community where they feel "at home" for socialization? Is it a "problem" if it's due to compulsions from OCD? Or from social anxiety?
Who gets to decide this? Where is the "problem", really?
wondering,
gg
Posted by Zeba on July 26, 2008, at 23:23:29
In reply to Fayeroe and Abbie Normal..., posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 20:50:27
twinleaf;
good to see you around. I hardly post anymore and not at all on psychology in spite of seeing my T/analyst three times per week since the end of last year. Works much better.
I used to be OzLand (for my Kansas-Menninger connection) and may go back to that name now that I am much more stable. Don't know thatI will post that much though anyway. Just had neuropsych testing done and found out I have cognitve impairments one year and four months post ECT. I will start rehab for some of it,and some I have already learned how to compensate. I have symptoms similar to someone with temporal lobe epilepsy and dysnomia as well difficulties with apraxia, processing and retaining new information, and poor concentration and attention.
Sorry I am posting here, but you don't have babble mail. Don't know if you even remember me.
I sort of think a lot of people I used to know either changed their posting name or just quit coming here. I don't know why, but I don't think it is because of Dr. Bob. Maybe it is for some people. Re what people post, I would worry about back channel stuff which no one can monitor. That is one of the things I don't like about this site. People can babble mail each other, or share emails, and then share badmouthing of someone. I don't know if that is happening now or not. I know it did in the past and was not a good thing.
Zeba (used to be OzLand)
Posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 0:07:19
In reply to Re: Fayeroe and Abbie Normal... » twinleaf, posted by Zeba on July 26, 2008, at 23:23:29
Hi Zeba!
I've seen your name a bit, I think, but honestly didn't know you were "Ozland". I was looking over some old posts in the
archives recently, and saw your old name there. I was wondering what had happened to you- and so am really glad to hear from you! It's so good to hear that the therapy is going so well. I think the last I knew, you weren't sure about going three times a week- I'm so glad it worked out (both that you could go that often, and that you have benefitted so much from it).It is just shocking to learn what the ECT did. If I remember correctly, you only did it to please a psychiatrist with whom you did not have a good relationship, and you only had about seven treatments. Most people who have ECT. whether it is helpful clinically or not, probably never have the kind of careful neuropsychological testing you have had. If they did, I bet a huge proportion of them would discover the same kinds of subtle deficits. I would assume that they will slowly become less and less evident.
I have never had ECT, but I have had TMS. It is not yet approved, although it probably will be within a few months. I haven't needed it for the last couple of years, but I found it to be very safe and effective earlier, when depression was a much more serious problem.
I am doing just what you are: going three times a week to my great Menninger-trained analyst. Things are so much better than they were a year and a half ago- like you, I gather!
As you can see, the warm, respectful and understanding Babble community has been going through a lot of fragmentation and stress, and, for many of us, it is a lot harder to trust it enough to speak openly and spontaneously. I wish it weren't so; I would love to be able to post about the fascinating middle phase of therapy that I'm now in. And of course I'd love to hear the experiences of people like you.
I think you are right- that there are different levels of communication, depending on whether one just posts on the boards, or also uses chat, babblemail, personal e-mail, the telephone, or, in a few cases, personal visits. While what happens out on the boards is somewhat over-controlled, what happens with all the other forms of communication is completely private and not subject to any administrative rules. And I think you are right - the private channels are probably a lot more important than they were a few years ago.
Thanks for posting to me! As you probably noticed, it was very timely and welcome.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 9:41:47
In reply to Re: Fayeroe and Abbie Normal... » Zeba, posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 0:07:19
>
> I think you are right- that there are different levels of communication, depending on whether one just posts on the boards, or also uses chat, babblemail, personal e-mail, the telephone, or, in a few cases, personal visits. While what happens out on the boards is somewhat over-controlled, what happens with all the other forms of communication is completely private and not subject to any administrative rules.To clarify, babblemail and chat ARE subject to administrative oversight. Private emails, chats, IMs, phone calls, in person meetings, snail mail, smoke signals, etc. is NOT, as that would be inappropriate as well as impossible to administer.
I've been blessed to form friendships that developed after getting to know them first here at Babble. I've met some in person more than once and look forward to continuing to see my friends when I can. I talk on the phone to some all the time. These friendships originated at Babble, and I'm grateful to Babble for that. But they have evolved, as friendships do, far beyond Babble. I can't speak for others' relationships, but my friends and I seem to have a great variety, if not infinite number of things we find interesting to talk about besides Babble or any individual member of Babble.
gg
Posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 11:14:16
In reply to private communications, posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 9:41:47
That's great. I think it's wonderful when meaningful, real-life friendships can develop out of an internet connection, as they have for you. They sound terrific! But not everyone has this as a goal. I have a lot of close friends IRL, and have seven god-children, so their mothers are in effect seven "best friends". It was important to me for prefessonal reasons to keep my actual life separate from my posting life. When Babble was at its best, several years ago, I found it a wonderful source of understanding, support and knowledge. It was a place where I could talk freely about the depression I developed when my mother died, and about the therapy I was embarking on. There were delightful, playful, affectionate moments mixed in with serious ones. I still think back on those times with a lot of joy and pleasure. They were helpful in therapy- and in life.
Two or three years ago, no-one would have tried to diagnose me with OCD, or some other "undiagnosed psychiatric disorder" because I called attention to a situation of excessive posting and it was somehow wrongly assumed that I was unable to stop reading the posts in question, rather than the true situation- that I felt it was causing the boards to appear less interesting and useful. I consider this a very destructive thing for one poster to write to another. Yet, no-one comments on it. No-one cares how hurtful it may be, . Remember, it happened to me this time, but it will happen again to other posters, when I'm no longer available to be on the receiving end of verbal abuse and insults.
To respond briefly to your other post about accepting and understanding the need a poster might have to post a great deal; yes, of course everyone tries to understand that, and wants to be flexible and accepting. there are always good reasons why people do such things, and social isolation and anxiety are undoubtedly important causative factors. We can certainly understand and accept that; but I'm also hopeful that the poster in question will self-monitor a bit. She has a lot to offer, and that will be much clearer if she posts just somewhat less.
Posted by fayeroe on July 27, 2008, at 11:23:34
In reply to Re: private communications » gardenergirl, posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 11:14:16
I am still curious about how the number of posts that one person writes causes Babble to be inferior to past years?. I think this is the main complaint in this thread?
I guess that support forums mean different things to different people and I believe that is as it should be.I know this...counting someone else's posts isn't on my bucket list.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 11:53:38
In reply to Re: private communications » gardenergirl, posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 11:14:16
> There were delightful, playful, affectionate moments mixed in with serious ones. I still think back on those times with a lot of joy and pleasure. They were helpful in therapy- and in life.
I miss that tone and interaction, too.
>
> No-one cares how hurtful it may be, .We really don't know who may or may not care. Absence of words does not mean there is absence of thoughts. And with the apparent new policy (I assume it's still being followed) of admin only attending to potentionally actionable posts after receiving a notification from a member, I think fewer posts which someone might find hurtful are being flagged by admin. But that doesn't negate hurt, and I'm sorry for yours here.
> but I'm also hopeful that the poster in question will self-monitor a bit. She has a lot to offer, and that will be much clearer if she posts just somewhat less.
Thanks for taking time to comment on my other post. I agree that posts which contain shining gems of support can seem lost among a large number of, well, let's say simpler posts. But that shining gem is still there. We don't have any idea who and how many it may help and have helped. Still, the volume of posts does increase the likelihood that it could be overlooked, I guess.
About changing behaviors...I strongly believe that we feel the most freedom and ability to change when we are accepted and accept ourselves just as we are first--not just "warts and all", I think, but especially the warts. Feeling at ease in one's own skin, accepting the whole of one's self, and feeling accepted and loved by others just for being...what a strong foundation to take risks, don't you think?
Oh, and from a leadership or marketing frame, I think it's important to get "buy-in" from the person or persons in question in order to be most effective.
'course, I'm the one who's always being told I'm idealistic and not practical enough, and there's a lot of both tied up in this.
You don't happen to watch "Dr. Who", I think on the SciFi channel, do you? I know next to nothing about it, but I was sort of watching it with my hubby last night. The antagonists in this episode, the Daleks, would encounter humans and most often say, "Hostility will not be tolerated. Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate!" Wowsa, now that's a really scary kind of "please be civil", eh? I think I need a sign that says, "Monkey brain at work, please be patient." Anywhoo, I couldn't figure out where else I could work that into a post and I didn't want to start a new thread just for my silly associations. So, er, here's your bonus with post? :)
gg
Posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 12:11:37
In reply to Re: private communications » twinleaf, posted by fayeroe on July 27, 2008, at 11:23:34
You have once again made an insulting, incorrect assumption about me. Previously, you assumed that I was reading ALL of the posts. When I point out to you that I am not reading ANY of them, you don't acknowledge your error, but instead post again to insinuate that I am COUNTING all of them. I haven't done that; nor would it ever occur to me to do so. What on earth is making you continue to come to these very poorly thought out, incorrect, insulting conclusions?
Common sense, and routine observation of the boards in order to see what I would like to read, have made me aware that this poster has been responding to nearly every thread. Early in 2008, I read some of them, and realized that many, although not all, of them did not have meaningful content- either clear personal experience, or meaningful emotional content. They appeared to have been written much more from a need to make social contact rather than from a desire to share information. I do not mean that there is anything inherently wrong with that need- it's a natural one that we all have- but I think it's reasonable to suggest that "less might be more" in the same way that posters are asked to maintain a certain level of civility. None of us get to say or do absolutely anything we might want here. The board couldn't exist as a viable community if we did
What one poster writes of course does not need to influence what another poster will write. All of these posts can easily be ignored. My concern, and the original reason for my deciding to post about this is that the boards seem kind of "watered down" when there are so many posts of this nature. Babble has always stood out, above the rest of the psychology sites, for the depth of its knowledge base, and for the breadth and sincerity of the emotional experiences which have been shared here. I would like it to stay that way, so that when internet browsers come upon Babble, they will be excited and interested in joining- as we once were.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on July 27, 2008, at 12:27:32
In reply to Re: private communications » fayeroe, posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 12:11:37
> You have once again made an insulting, incorrect assumption about me.
> Common sense, and routine observation of the boards in order to see what I would like to read, have made me aware that this poster has been responding to nearly every thread. Early in 2008, I read some of them, and realized that many, although not all, of them did not have meaningful content- either clear personal experience, or meaningful emotional content.You have been asked before in this thread to follow site civility guidelines, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you from posting.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 14:31:37
In reply to Re: private communications » gardenergirl, posted by twinleaf on July 27, 2008, at 11:14:16
Twinleaf,
If you want to continue our discussion or want to stay in touch for whatever reason, please feel free to email me. You can reach me at my screen name followed by 88 at yahoo dot com (forgive my avoidance of bots or whatever they are). Also, in case you are not aware and if you have any interest, you can still use chat in room 1 (but not 2 while blocked).Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on July 27, 2008, at 14:49:53
In reply to email » twinleaf, posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 14:31:37
vice versa.
Blocked posters can chat in 2, not 1. That's why I always chat in 2.
Posted by johnj on July 27, 2008, at 14:52:21
In reply to posting behaviors, posted by gardenergirl on July 26, 2008, at 22:57:57
It IS a problem if it affects others in a negative way or annoys other posters. Just because one has an illness one doesn't have the right to be disruptive. I have OCD and there is a limit that I would allow my behavior to affect other people in a negative way. I sometimes remove myself from situations that would be negative for other people or myself.
It is obvious there are problems on babbble as other posters have said some behaviors are disruptive. Also someone said it isn't a problem if it is an illness. Well, how has disruptive behavior on babble working for others or that person? Is it helping their illness? I think not. If anything it could be making it worse.
I think the ALS comparison is more apples to oranges. That said, I know you and I will never agree on this.Also, the start of this thread was not a kind thing to do. But, I would like to ask if it is true? No one has questioned that. If it is I would assume it is against the law and violates all board rules. Has Dr. Bob or the deputies looked into it? I would think the post could be traced somehow. Deputies what do you say?
Posted by Zeba on July 27, 2008, at 16:38:25
In reply to Blocked for a week » twinleaf, posted by Deputy Dinah on July 27, 2008, at 12:27:32
I am reminded of why I don't come here and post much anymore. I feel very sad about babble and the need to be so careful with what I say or don't say. Meanwhile I am aware that babble posters are talked about via email and nasty comments made about various people. How do I know this? Well because I was part of it for a brief time but no more. I don't email anyone from babble anymore. I find it best to keep my life and therapy more private now. I have friends from church and my women's group as well as a couple of other people. One friend just found out her husband has lung cancer and has only a few months to live. These real life situations are what keep me engaged at this point. I did come back to see if twinleaf saw what I wrote, and then I see she has been blocked. IDK. Sad.
ZEBA
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 18:30:15
In reply to Re: email, posted by Dinah on July 27, 2008, at 14:49:53
Posted by Reggie BoStar on July 28, 2008, at 2:34:22
In reply to Re: THIS MUST STOP OR SOMEONE IS GONNA DIE » tepi, posted by Quintal on July 25, 2008, at 13:37:30
Hi Quintal,
Sorry to butt in here, but when I noticed your comment about an "already withering babble" I go to wondering what the statuses of the psycho-babble boards are these days.Is they running out of steam? I'd hate to see them go. I'm not the most frequent poster in the world but I do come here often to read posts on various topics that interest and/or afflict me.
Hope these forums are still going strong...
Have a good one,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Amigan on July 28, 2008, at 12:58:33
In reply to multiple complaints..., posted by twinleaf on July 26, 2008, at 15:28:37
> However, there is another aspect to these complaints which has come up several times: excessive posting. Often, nearly every active thread is responded to, without regard to whether or not something useful can be offered.
Here is, in my opinion, the definite solution to this issue:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080719/msgs/842326.html
Posted by Quintal on July 30, 2008, at 7:15:29
In reply to Re: multiple complaints... » twinleaf, posted by Amigan on July 28, 2008, at 12:58:33
I've thought for a while that the refresh button would be the easiest way for someone who just wanted to follow new threads but not contribute. You press it, then check the new screen for posts with yellow 'new' flags next to them. You can also tell which posts you've read before because they're a different colour from the fresh ones. I thought this was the method most people used for reading the boards. I don't see the point of flooding my email account with reminders to every thread. If there's active content even on an ancient thread, it will appear at the top of the board. How often does anyone check through the mountain of old email reminders just to find a link to an old thread? I don't think I've ever done it on a thread that's more than a few weeks old, otherwise it's like searching for a needle in a haystack. It's easier to use the Google search function at the bottom of the board.
Q
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