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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 44 to 68 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:21:33
In reply to Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 16:50:00
maybe it is hard to figure whether he is wonderful because you idealise him, or whether you idealise him because he is so wonderful
:-)
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:30:57
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:21:33
Ummm... Not quite what I meant.
I think I recognize both Dr. Bob's strengths and his weaknesses.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:43:48
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:30:57
> Ummm... Not quite what I meant.
Sorry. That was an attempt at a joke.
> I think I recognize both Dr. Bob's strengths and his weaknesses.Yeah. I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't. I'm sorry - that post really didn't come across at all well...
I don't think I idealise him particularly.
But it is something I think about because I am aware that it is something that can happen.
I disagree with him sometimes. I don't always agree with his decisions. I don't think I place unrealistic expectations on him. I don't think I expect him to be perfect or superhuman.But... Sometimes I do feel pretty mad at him.
So... Why do I feel so mad?
Because I do feel that he has let me down.
So maybe there are some expectations that are there after all...Thats what I meant.
I'm not sure what to do except... That when I feel mad at him then that might indicate that some of that is going on so I need to have a bit of a look at my expectations...
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:52:43
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:43:48
But some expectations are quite appropriate. I should hope that we would all have expectations of others that vary based on their role.
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:57:13
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:52:43
lol. I think I've worked out the answer to my original question. The key is expectations.
Grin.
I love figuring out what previously seemed incomprehensible.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:59:52
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:52:43
> But some expectations are quite appropriate. I should hope that we would all have expectations of others that vary based on their role.
Oh yes, we can't do away with expectations altogether.
I am really just making this up as I go along...
But I would have thought that if one feels very intensely upset then that might indicate fairly strong idealisation. Because one is really upset because one feels really very let down.
But then... I guess it is hard to assess those expectations and see whether they are realistic or not.
How things are described has a lot to do with it.
How you describe your expectations.
But if you can come to a description that seems natural AND might be a little on the high side. Then if you adjust the expectation you might feel a lot better.If you can
If you can
Dunno about if you can't.
But thats what I try and do when I'm starting to get upset.
It's worked for me.
But I dunno.
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:07:30
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:59:52
Oh, I'm well familiar with downwardly adjusting expectations.
I was angry with myself because I thought it was my fondness for Dr. Bob that was causing me pain. And I think I see it now in a different way. It also explains different reactions to different people.
Now I feel the right to be justifiably angry, instead of feeling angry at myself for feeling angry. :)
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:08:19
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 18:59:52
In fact one of my favorite, if less than optimistic, sayings is that low expectations are the key to happiness.
Posted by Racer on July 23, 2005, at 19:19:52
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that., posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 18:57:13
> lol. I think I've worked out the answer to my original question. The key is expectations.
>
> Grin.
>
> I love figuring out what previously seemed incomprehensible.I swear when I first started teaching, I didn't understand half of what I was trying to teach -- but I understood it pretty well by the time I got through explaining it! Funny how that happens, ain't it?
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 19:20:20
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:07:30
> Oh, I'm well familiar with downwardly adjusting expectations.
Yes...
But how do you feel about doing that?
Still feel like you shouldn't have to adjust that expectation downwards?
Maybe there is another description of the expectation that could be more happily adjusted...Glad you are feeling a bit better.
I'm feeling a little lost..:-)
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:26:15
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 19:20:20
Lost?
I don't know that I'm feeling better. Except that I understand it from a different angle, and I tend to be less angry with myself if I understand what it is I'm doing. Dr. Bob didn't live up to my expectations of him. And I think the expectations were reasonable. I wasn't angry before Dr. Bob's response, because my expectations had not been not met by anyone else.
I don't think I could feel a whole lot better. But I also don't think I could feel a whole lot worse. But I can feel more or less angry, I think. Or channel the anger better anyway.
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:27:23
In reply to LOL! » Dinah, posted by Racer on July 23, 2005, at 19:19:52
Yep. :)
And I also find that I figure out what I am feeling a lot of times by figuring out what I'm not feeling.
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 20:20:14
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 19:20:20
Was I being confusing? I can be that way sometimes.
Sometimes I lead with my brain, and then think of what I've written with my gut and say to myself "You know, that could have been a bit nicer." And sometimes I lead with my emotions, and later look at it with my brain and say "You know, I've just made a j*ck*ss of myself."
My brain isn't as nice as my guts, even when I'm talking to myself.
In either case, I'll try to go back and fix things.
And sometimes I shift suddenly from seeing things one way to seeing things differently.
I don't mean to be confusing.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 20:26:09
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 20:20:14
> Was I being confusing? I can be that way sometimes.
No, you aren't being confusing. Its just that I'm not sure whether this is about SOmeone in particular or about how a particular situation was dealt with or what the problem is, really... I haven't been following all the recent admin threads. Or what followed from those threads.
> Sometimes I lead with my brain, and then think of what I've written with my gut and say to myself "You know, that could have been a bit nicer." And sometimes I lead with my emotions, and later look at it with my brain and say "You know, I've just made a j*ck*ss of myself."Yeah. I get that. I do.
> My brain isn't as nice as my guts, even when I'm talking to myself.:-( same.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 20:29:57
In reply to Re: Hmmm... I remember that. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 19:26:15
>I understand it from a different angle, and I tend to be less angry with myself if I understand what it is I'm doing.
Well, thats good.
>Dr. Bob didn't live up to my expectations of him. And I think the expectations were reasonable.
Ok. So I guess thats where you need to look at what he said...
And how you describe those expectations...
And where he might have been coming from...I don't know.
I don't know what this is about.
But its something that seem to happen sometimes...
Not just for you.
There has to be some way of making it better...
There just has to be.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:10
In reply to Re: I apologize to everyone else » NikkiT2, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2005, at 15:03:36
> Of course, so had already been blocked for the second time by me (for posting as a blocked poster) when so emailed me.
Sorry, I hadn't put that together.
> My purpose was not so much to get increased block time. It was hurt that Dr. Bob said nothing about the emails.
Sorry again, I may sometimes expect, unreasonably, that others will respond to things the way I do. Which reminds me of:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050628/msgs/527233.html
Thanks for working on this,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 18:40:50
In reply to Re: I apologize to Dinah, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:10
I appreciate the apology, and explanation.
I think I understand what you're saying.
And I think it probably *is* wise for both of us not to expect the other of us to react in the same way to many things. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Reconciliatory smile.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 8:11:05
In reply to Re: I apologize to Dinah, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:10
I didn't change the header. I like looking at it...
But, still, although the apology is wonderful, is it fair to expect that deputy abuse go unpunished? If it were posted on the board, it wouldn't be tolerated.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2005, at 10:37:08
In reply to Re: I apologize to Dinah » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 8:11:05
> is it fair to expect that deputy abuse go unpunished? If it were posted on the board, it wouldn't be tolerated.
I wouldn't call it punishment... Would it be OK if I didn't do anything else in this case, but we consider these policies (regarding uncivil email to deputies) now to be clarified and in effect?
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on July 27, 2005, at 14:31:46
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies, posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2005, at 10:37:08
I'm not talking about uncivil or saying that email should follow the civility guidelines.
I'm talking about the ones that go beyond 'uncivil.'
So - I guess that would be hard to quantify except by "I know it when I see it."
a dilema.
Posted by Dinah on July 27, 2005, at 19:24:42
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on July 27, 2005, at 14:31:46
I've tried a number of times to post a response or to even Babblemail you, without success.
I think... I think I'm upset with myself for even bringing it up. I never would have mentioned it on board if I hadn't blown up at Dr. Bob, and I still don't totally understand why I did that.
I suspect that deputies are supposed to realize that that sort of thing is part of the territory.
I sort of thought that was part of what Dr. Bob was saying in his very nice apology.
And it's something I sort of already knew. That people get mad and lash out at the bearer of administrative action, and that deputies are supposed to take it better than most. As well as Dr. Bob even. And I do believe that. Well, maybe not as good as Dr. Bob, but I do believe that's part of volunteering.
Ugh. I'm still not doing a very good job of replying.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 27, 2005, at 20:34:11
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 27, 2005, at 19:24:42
> That people get mad and lash out at the bearer of administrative action, and that deputies are supposed to take it better than most.
yeah. but its still hard. its still real hard. and sometimes we are better placed to let things kind of roll off our backs than other times.
i think you do a really great job.
i wouldn't take things half as well...
:-)
Posted by AuntieMel on July 28, 2005, at 8:03:32
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 27, 2005, at 19:24:42
babble and/or babblemail must have been down. I'm still here.
I agree that it comes with the territory, to a point.
There *is* a difference between incivility and abuse. I, personally, would draw the line at attacks that are 'personal' in nature.
But if there is any doubt about whether it is 'abuse' or not, it should be decided in favor of the poster.
But I'm not making much sense either.
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 8:26:32
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on July 28, 2005, at 8:03:32
It wasn't technical difficulties. It's more that I'm conflicted about what to say.
I think I tend to agree with you about the difference. But I'm pretty sure Dr. Bob doesn't draw the line in the same place. And I think that bugs me a little. Since I don't want to be bugged, I think I try to not think about it too much.
But I don't bear the responsibility so I don't get to set the rules. :) (I'm getting pretty good at that statement. Motherhood I guess.)
Posted by AuntieMel on July 28, 2005, at 10:44:36
In reply to Re: uncivil email to deputies » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 8:26:32
With Dr. Bob, that is.
<snicker>
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