![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 10:17:03
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa-2farrechng » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on June 14, 2005, at 9:52:10
Dinah,
Are you referring to Minnie?
Lou
This is the post about Larry Hoove r that I was referring to in my previous post
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050530/msgs/512411.html
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 11:25:23
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 6:45:49
> Thank you for requesting that I answer your concerns for the record and Minnie for lifting her prohibition for us to have this dialog.
You are welcome. If it will lead to a significant decrease in the requests, or to guideline changes that most find agreeable, I am all for it.
> I will start with your first concern which is why do I make {so many} requests to Dr. Hsiung
> Well, if the moderation was when the board was in session, then I do not think that there would be so many… Could not immediate moderation have some reducing effect to the number of my requests? That is why I suggested that no more than 5 minuets elaps for a post to be addressed...So to paraphrase (correct me if I'm wrong), the reason you post so many requests to Admin is because there aren’t moderators here 24/7 and posts go more than 5 minutes without being read by a moderator? If there were moderators here 24/7 (or the forum operated only when moderators were present), and no post was allowed to go more than 5 minutes without being read by a moderator, that would significantly reduce your requests?
Follow-up questions: If a poster disagreed with a moderator’s call, would there be a grievance procedure, and how would it work? Or would the guidelines say that once a moderator made a ruling that would be the end of it? And if a person continued to disagree with a ruling, or push for a reversal, what would happen to that person?
> This could be done, IMO, if Dr. Hsiung has a "buddy" to help him moderate when he can not...
Since there are 20 boards, and every post should be read within 5 minutes, do you think only one "buddy" at a time could be a moderator when Dr. Bob is unable to moderate? (Just out of curiosity, would you want to be a buddy?)
> It is not an either or type of suggestion , for there are other alternatives to this situation such as allowing posters to halt a thread untill the moderator addresses a post...
So any poster could halt a thread that he/she wants to have reviewed? Could even a poster who is not actively involved in a thread halt the post? Could a person who is not the subject of (or what he/she has said is not the subject of) a post halt a thread?
> ...and another alternative is to allow a poster to put aside a post so that no one can respond to it but the thread continues…
This alternative I don’t understand.
> Another alternative is to have a large group of deputies with the idea that they can immediatly address a post without waiting for other circumstances to happen…
By other circumstances do you mean escalation? And how would deputies be chosen?
> and there are others....continued
I will read them as you post them.
In the meantime, how do you feel about a rule that says:
1) that a person can only make unlimited (so to speak) requests for determinations on posts that are either A) in response to a post he/she has made, B) is about him/her or something he/she has posted, or C) is in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Actively” in this case to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever: perhaps it might mean has posted to the thread within the prior week (or 72-hours or whatever) preceding the questioned post.)
2) That a person can only make limited requests for determinations on posts that are A) not in response to something he/she has posted, B) not about him/her or something he/she has posted, and C) not in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Limited” to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever: perhaps once a week?)
Finally, how do you feel about making it a requirement that when someone’s post is being questioned, they receive a notice, so that they may, if they choose, defend what they’ve said?
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 11:28:57
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa-diftounder » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 7:20:12
> Your next concern is to if I make the requests because they are difficult to understand.
> I would not say that the rules are difficult to understand if they were well-defined and applied equally. That is why I request the determinations; so that there could be more defining and to have them equally applied. continued...I agree that rules should be applied without bias. But I think you misunderstood my question. Do you personally find the guidelines hard to understand?
Posted by Phillipa on June 14, 2005, at 12:25:19
In reply to Re: Guidelines hard to understand? » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 11:28:57
Let the poster apologize too. I've done this many times. And it's accepted. Then we continue on like in real life. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 12:26:16
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa-2farrechng » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 7:35:32
> Your next concern is if I consider Dr. Hsiung's moderation in regard to his guidlins as to be {too far-reaching}.
> There was a post that I replied to yesterday from a lady that wrote that she was afriad to post because of what I thought to be her fear of being scrutinised to a degree that frightened her to post. The concept of {too far-reaching} is a constituional concept that one can read about to see the meaning of it.I felt very bad for that lady. I thought the tone of her apology to Dr. Bob for her “questionable post” was very sad… and he had ruled that, given the context, her post was acceptable! I didn’t get the feeling she was afraid of being scrutinized by Dr. Bob alone. In fact, who actually questioned the acceptability of her post?
I thought it noteworthy that her post asked, “Is it possible that on some level you might be jealous of your sister-in-law-to-be?” but the one you let pass contained the statements: “That poor man… I feel sorry for him… My ex-sis-in-law did everything she could to make me feel unwelcome, in the most back-stabbing… female ways possible… ” The former asks a question about how someone feels about her sister-in-law-to-be, and the latter expresses sympathy for a man, and (IMO) hatred for an (ex) sister-in-law.> There is now an expulsion of 6 weeks here to Larry Hoover for what Dr. Hsing writes is that he answered a post. He thought that he did not harm anyone or knowingly reply to a poster that used his name in a post, that had invoked the prohibition for him to reply to them. Is that {too far-reaching}? Is Dr. Hsiung's rule ,in and of itself, {too far-reaching}?
The determination of that can be resarched to find out. .....continued if someone is interseted in more.I haven’t been following the thread that lead to this, and I don’t have the time to research it right now, but I’ll give you that sometimes I think Dr. Bob makes mistakes on his rulings. I myself felt I was the victim of such a ruling! Have you felt that way? Is that why you bring other posters’ posts before Admin for determination?
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 12:32:56
In reply to Re: Why so many, and alternatives... » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 11:25:23
Minnie,
You asked if the forum was moderated 24/7, would there be a decrese in requests.
I have explained that I think that they would. The question that I see is concerning the feasibility of such. With 20 boards, there could be 24 moderators for each board, rach doing 1 hour shifts. Some live in Europe and Asia and Austrailia and the US and Canada and South America so that ther could be people that could not be taken from other activities so that there could be a world-wide coverage of moderators. These moderators could came from universities and such and they could be given, lets say, one credit hour toward their departments needed hours for such.
I would like the moderators to be independant so that a veriety of minds make decisions as to what is acceptable or not. I would suggest that these moderators be given the rules, and that is all, and let them use there own thinking.
I would not want members as moderators at all and the deputy system here would be eliminated.
These maderators ,if requested to further explain their reasoning, then could take the rulling abd pass it to 5 others and there could be an appeal to overrule by a 3 to 2 margin or better. If the poster was not satisfied, they could appeal again to the remaining 18 members of that forum for a n appeal to reverse the appeal that was adverse. There would be then 2 appeals. Dr. Hsiung would not be a moderator, but could comment on the last appeal but his comment could not overrull the last decision.
There would be posters that could volunteer to be advocates for these that appeal, like public defenders. Appeals could be determined in 1/2 day so that an appeal could overturn a decision quickly.
There could be a published board that has all these decisions on it so that the past practice of the forum could be looked at by all. This published board would not include decisions by Dr. Hsiung, for these decisions would start when the new system starts.
This is what I consider to be the best way to have a mental health forum for those seeking support. I think that it would transform the internt mental helth community into a healthy place for all. With my sysytem, no one would fear, no one would be discriminated upon, no one would be subject to one man's thinking.
Lou
Posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 13:41:39
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-iflouruldthebrd » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 12:32:56
all,
I feel that this system put forth by Lou is not feasible or realistic given the typical constraits of a web site. The cost involved would be prohibitive. I personally feel that having Dr. Bob and the deputies is a very effective system. Dr. Bob has been open to suggestions and has made continuous improvements to the site over time. Lou, it seems to me that so much "infrastructure" attached to the boards would make them bulky, unwieldy and very impersonal.JenStar
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 14:10:24
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-iflouruldthebrd » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 12:32:56
> Minnie,
> You asked if the forum was moderated 24/7, would there be a decrese in requests.
> I have explained that I think that they would…
>
> The question that I see is concerning the feasibility of such. With 20 boards, there could be 24 moderators for each board, rach doing 1 hour shifts. Some live in Europe and Asia and Austrailia and the US and Canada and South America so that ther could be people that could not be taken from other activities so that there could be a world-wide coverage of moderators. These moderators could came from universities and such and they could be given, lets say, one credit hour toward their departments needed hours for such…
>
> … This is what I consider to be the best way to have a mental health forum for those seeking support. I think that it would transform the internt mental helth community into a healthy place for all. With my sysytem, no one would fear, no one would be discriminated upon, no one would be subject to one man's thinking.It's an interesting alternative, but it would require 480 committed and trustworthy people (English speakers?) to keep it going. And not just any 480 people, but roughly equal numbers from each continent for each board. And since so many figures of speech have been questioned, they should probably be people who have a keen understanding of the origins and use of idioms, not only in their region, but in other posters' regions too. Considering that most of this forum’s requests for determination on the acceptability of others' posts originate with you (IMO) do you think it makes sense to set up such a system? It would be a full-time job to manage the whole thing. I mean, someone would need to oversee it and make sure it's operating the way it should (even if it’s not Dr. Bob). Do you think it's practical to think this site could be changed to run in this way? Do you think making so many requests will make it happen? And since you are passionate about how such a site should be run, and have given a lot of thought to the many details of running such a site, why not start one up yourself?
And could you please answer how you’d feel about guidelines on this forum in the meantime like this:
1) A person can only make unlimited (so to speak) requests for determinations on posts that are either A) in response to a post he/she has made, B) is about him/her or something he/she has posted, or C) is in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Actively” in this case to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
2) That a person can only make limited requests for determinations on posts that are A) not in response to something he/she has posted, B) not about him/her or something he/she has posted, and C) not in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Limited” to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
3) That when someone’s post is being questioned, they must receive a notice, so that they may, if they choose, defend what they’ve said.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 14:26:15
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa-2farrechng » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 7:35:32
So far you have directly answered my questions about whether or not you make your requests because you find the forum’s guidelines difficult to understand, or because you believe them to be too far-reaching. Thank you. But some of my other questions remain unanswered. Would you be so kind?
Do you make your requests because you find the enforcement of forum guidelines confusing?
Do you believe the forum guidelines to be arbitrary?
Do you believe them not to be conducive to good mental health?
Do you believe them to be unsupportive?
Do you believe the administrator (or moderator if you wish) uses them as an outlet for his own agenda?
Why do you bring so many requests before Administration, without first asking the posters what they mean?
Why do you question so many posts in threads that you are not actively participating in?
Why do you question so many posts that are not about you, and are not in response to something you have said?
Finally, do you know that your requests lead some to feel accused or put down? (Note that I am not asking why you think your posts aren’t offensive, but whether or not you know that they are offensive to some.)
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie and Phillipa-2farrechng, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 14:26:15
Minnie,
You wrote about my requests to Dr. Hsiung for him to write a determination and that you say that,[...your requests lead some others to feel accused...].
Is one of the others yourself? If it is, could you explaine how you feel accused when I am asking Dr. Hsiung for his determination as to if the post is acceptable or not?
If we use the idiom example post, as I remember, the idom was ,[...with a grain of salt...] and I wanted to know if it is OK to use that in the context that you used it.
I am not aware that asking for another's opinion could be an accusation. So if you could explain why asking the moderator for clarification of his guidlines could be an accusation, I could have a better understanding of what you wrote to me.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 16:09:27
In reply to Re: If Lou ruled the board? » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 14:10:24
Minnie,
You wrote that in my vision that the use of idioms would be a challenge of some sort for the moderators.
Well, how about a list published of Ok and not Ok idioms and a list of not Ok ways any idiom could be used such as if it degrades another person and such? Could not this be like the dictionary feature that appraises words as offensive or not?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 17:21:53
In reply to Re: If Lou ruled the board? » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 14:10:24
> > Minnie,
> > You asked if the forum was moderated 24/7, would there be a decrese in requests.
> > I have explained that I think that they would…
> >
> > The question that I see is concerning the feasibility of such. With 20 boards, there could be 24 moderators for each board, rach doing 1 hour shifts. Some live in Europe and Asia and Austrailia and the US and Canada and South America so that ther could be people that could not be taken from other activities so that there could be a world-wide coverage of moderators. These moderators could came from universities and such and they could be given, lets say, one credit hour toward their departments needed hours for such…
> >
> > … This is what I consider to be the best way to have a mental health forum for those seeking support. I think that it would transform the internt mental helth community into a healthy place for all. With my sysytem, no one would fear, no one would be discriminated upon, no one would be subject to one man's thinking.
>
> It's an interesting alternative, but it would require 480 committed and trustworthy people (English speakers?) to keep it going. And not just any 480 people, but roughly equal numbers from each continent for each board. And since so many figures of speech have been questioned, they should probably be people who have a keen understanding of the origins and use of idioms, not only in their region, but in other posters' regions too. Considering that most of this forum’s requests for determination on the acceptability of others' posts originate with you (IMO) do you think it makes sense to set up such a system? It would be a full-time job to manage the whole thing. I mean, someone would need to oversee it and make sure it's operating the way it should (even if it’s not Dr. Bob). Do you think it's practical to think this site could be changed to run in this way? Do you think making so many requests will make it happen? And since you are passionate about how such a site should be run, and have given a lot of thought to the many details of running such a site, why not start one up yourself?
>
> And could you please answer how you’d feel about guidelines on this forum in the meantime like this:
>
> 1) A person can only make unlimited (so to speak) requests for determinations on posts that are either A) in response to a post he/she has made, B) is about him/her or something he/she has posted, or C) is in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Actively” in this case to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
>
> 2) That a person can only make limited requests for determinations on posts that are A) not in response to something he/she has posted, B) not about him/her or something he/she has posted, and C) not in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Limited” to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
>
> 3) That when someone’s post is being questioned, they must receive a notice, so that they may, if they choose, defend what they’ve said.
>
Minnie,
In your questions to me above, there are many restrictions that you would advocate to be implimented when a request for determination is made.
It is my vision that a forum could have no restrictions for one to post as much as they want. I would not want anyone's voice to be stilled here.
But I will answer as to why I would not want restrictions imposed on posters here.One of your proposed restrictions is that one could only post in response to a thread that you are activly involved in.
In my requests, they are to give more definition or to have comparison or to show past practic,etc. As to if I am a discussant in the thread or not, my concern for the determination is not dependant on my being a discussant for my request is to get a reply from Dr. Hsiung that could be relevant to all the posters in the community.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on June 14, 2005, at 18:31:07
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-useofidioms-- » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 16:09:27
This may be off track here but I find it interesting that since I moved to the South from the North that the phrase "put it up" means to "put it away", and "I'll carry you there" doesn't literally mean carry you it means "take you there." Different things have different meanings in different locations. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 20:11:33
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-explnrqstasacu » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:27
> You wrote about my requests to Dr. Hsiung for him to write a determination and that you say that,[...your requests lead some others to feel accused...].
> Is one of the others yourself?Why of course. I don't think I've made any secret of that, and others have mentioned feeling the same way too.
> If it is, could you explaine how you feel accused when I am asking Dr. Hsiung for his determination as to if the post is acceptable or not?
For one, I myself was never asked what I meant. For another, you weren't even an active participant in the thread I was posting to. So it felt to me like my posts were being monitored by someone who is not an official moderator or deputy. Finally, you were not the subject of the post in question, nor was anything you've said. Once again, when you did that I felt spied upon. It is not a pleasant way to spend your time in a support and education forum... wondering if someone is watching you, to report you (even if they do put their report in the form of a question).
> If we use the idiom example post, as I remember, the idom was ,[...with a grain of salt...] and I wanted to know if it is OK to use that in the context that you used it.
So you want to know when it is OK and not OK to use idioms? Do you want this for all idioms used in the English language? And for the different ways idioms are used in different regions? Do you think we should ban the use of idioms? Might you have asked me what I meant?
> I am not aware that asking for another's opinion could be an accusation.
If you haven't understood this yet, I don't now how I can explain it any better than I or dozens of others already have, so no, I won't try to explain further. But I am telling you, I feel accused by requests such as we're discussing. So the question still remains: Do you know that such requests offend others, regardless of whether or not you think they should or should not be offensive?
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 20:16:13
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-useofidioms-- » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 16:09:27
> You wrote that in my vision that the use of idioms would be a challenge of some sort for the moderators.
> Well, how about a list published of Ok and not Ok idioms and a list of not Ok ways any idiom could be used such as if it degrades another person and such? Could not this be like the dictionary feature that appraises words as offensive or not?Do you really believe this practical and that it would make for a forum that most people would want to participate in? I can tell you that I wouldn't be likely to be an active member of a forum that requires me to look up every figure of speech I might use to be sure I'm using it properly.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 21:06:22
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 20:11:33
Minnie,
You wrote,[...I felt spied upon...]
Could you feel the same way if another poster here requested that Dr. Hsiung make a determination for acceptability?
And, since that was the only post involved like this, are you saying that it is not the number of requests by me that you want lessend?
Lou
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 22:38:00
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-restrcinvlv » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 17:21:53
> > And could you please answer how you’d feel about guidelines on this forum in the meantime like this:
> >
> > 1) A person can only make unlimited (so to speak) requests for determinations on posts that are either A) in response to a post he/she has made, B) is about him/her or something he/she has posted, or C) is in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Actively” in this case to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
> >
> > 2) That a person can only make limited requests for determinations on posts that are A) not in response to something he/she has posted, B) not about him/her or something he/she has posted, and C) not in a thread that he/she has been actively involved in? (“Limited” to be defined by Dr. Bob, or a vote, or whatever.)
> >
> > 3) That when someone’s post is being questioned, they must receive a notice, so that they may, if they choose, defend what they’ve said.
> >
>
> In your questions to me above, there are many restrictions that you would advocate to be implimented when a request for determination is made.
> It is my vision that a forum could have no restrictions for one to post as much as they want. I would not want anyone's voice to be stilled here.But the guidelines I’ve proposed are easy to administer, with no ambiguity. They are quantifiable. Also, I don’t see how having 20 people checking every post on every board every 5 minutes around the clock is any less restrictive.
> But I will answer as to why I would not want restrictions imposed on posters here.
> One of your proposed restrictions is that one could only post in response to a thread that you are activly involved in.No, that’s not true. One could question posts on threads they’re not actively involved in (or not the subject of), but they could not make such requests more often than is defined as acceptable by the forum guidelines without facing a penalty. Besides, such requests could be made privately to the moderator as often as wanted (as far as I’m concerned, though others may disagree). I’m talking about public requests.
> In my requests, they are to give more definition or to have comparison or to show past practic,etc. As to if I am a discussant in the thread or not, my concern for the determination is not dependant on my being a discussant for my request is to get a reply from Dr. Hsiung that could be relevant to all the posters in the community.
My guess is that you’ve made hundreds of such requests. Could you please tell me of three specific requests you’ve made that had replies that were relevant to the whole community?
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 22:49:26
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-~#ofpots? » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 21:06:22
> You wrote,[...I felt spied upon...]
> Could you feel the same way if another poster here requested that Dr. Hsiung make a determination for acceptability?Sure. Especially if they made a habit of posting such requests (about me or others).
> And, since that was the only post involved like this, are you saying that it is not the number of requests by me that you want lessend?
I'm not sure what you mean by "the only post involved like this." Do you mean it was the only public post you made about me? That it was the only post you made about that figure of speech? Either way, it's not just the number of requests that YOU make I want lessened. I don't think anyone should be able to post such requests (especially when they're not involved in the thread and the questioned posts are not about them or something they've said) in such numbers. (I have not asked that these guidelines be applied to you alone.)
Could you please answer my other questions?
Posted by so on June 15, 2005, at 0:29:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 22:49:26
>I don't think anyone should be able to post such requests (especially when they're not involved in the thread and the questioned posts are not about them or something they've said) in such numbers.
If I made such a request, it would more likely be about myself and those who might share my perspective than it would be about the person whose post I cited. Such interests arise from wondering about whether I may write in the same manner that others may write.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 15, 2005, at 4:06:28
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie-iflouruldthebrd » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on June 14, 2005, at 12:32:56
> Minnie,
> You asked if the forum was moderated 24/7, would there be a decrese in requests.
> I have explained that I think that they would.Lou,
Many of your requests for determination result in Dr. Bob saying he thinks the post in question is acceptable. If there were more moderators online more often, I'm not sure why requests for determination would go down. Are you saying that if you knew there were a moderator reading posts right away, and the moderator took no action about a post which you had a question about, you would not ask? What would prevent someone from making a request for determination regardless of when the moderators were online or not?gg
Posted by JenStar on June 15, 2005, at 18:19:34
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 22:38:00
As an FYI,
none of the requests for determination, or the answers from deputies and/or Dr. Bob, were useful to me as a part of this community. I did not derive any new learning or understanding from the posts or the answers to them. (Minnie had asked if Lou could show some posts that he believed had a beneficial effect for the community here.)Does anyone have a different experience?
thanks,
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on June 15, 2005, at 18:30:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 20:16:13
folks,
I believe that posters have a certain responsibility to write things that to the best of their knowledge are not deliberately offensive.HOWEVER -- (and this is a big however!) -- READERS also have a responsibility to read "smart" and try to interpret what is being written. Whether or not English is our first language here, and whether or not we enjoy dissecting language and grammar, we need to try to understand what the OTHER person means.
Also -- as in real life, we have to be a bit flexible. WE have to ask questions if we're confused - and ask them of the person who's writing the message. We're all adults here, and we should (I believe) be capable of interacting with each other on a one:one level without additional supervision.
When I say we "have" to do this, I mean that we "should", because it's the kind of interaction and communication that seems to make business, personal relationships and society as a whole moving forward without too much analysis.
Lou, I wish you were able to read and post here without needing to ask for so many determinations. You have never explained -- to me, to Minnie, or to anyone, WHY you want so many of them, at least not in a way that I understood well.
I believe there is a duty that YOU have, Lou, to censor yourself, try to interpret what people really mean, and then to talk directly to a person if you have a concern. Of course, this is a duty EVERYONE here has, in my opinion. I"m bringing it up to you because you mentioned in a previous post that you don't want/like to address people directly. But I think that's what this forum is meant for, and I don't think you're interacting in a way that meets the standards of the others here if you consistently refuse to do that.
And I don't mean "censor" in a Nazi-ish or any other way. I censor myself a lot of the time. sometimes when I read posts, my first instinct is something like "WHat???!!!" or, "I can't believe this!" But I try to read it again, and ask a question if I need to. I'm not always pefect, as you know. :) But I think that it's important for us to internalize first before we react here.
It's my opinion only, of course. But I'm trying to explain to you why so many of us really want you to interact on a personal level, and to stop the multiple requests for determination.
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 18:52:44
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Minnie-Haha, posted by JenStar on June 15, 2005, at 18:30:09
Jenstar, Lou used to ask for clarification directly from posters, but the posters involved didn't necessarily appreciate that. So his current posting style was an attempt by him to comply with their desires.
A search of the archives might yield further insight.
I think Lou is to be credited for attempting to change his style to conform with community desires.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 15, 2005, at 22:01:38
In reply to Re: so's further observation, posted by so on June 15, 2005, at 0:29:35
> >I don't think anyone should be able to post such requests (especially when they're not involved in the thread and the questioned posts are not about them or something they've said) in such numbers.
>
> If I made such a request, it would more likely be about myself and those who might share my perspective than it would be about the person whose post I cited. Such interests arise from wondering about whether I may write in the same manner that others may write.I kinda see what you're saying, but if I'm reading you right, you're not saying that such a request is NOT about a particular poster. Therefore, I don't see why a particular poster couldn't be offended and ask to have such requests limited, if not stopped. If you question someone else's post, even if it is ruled civil, there it sits on the record as having been questioned and therefore, at least in one person's eyes, questionable. And all this without even asking the "offender" what he/she meant.
Once again, I could accept such challenges without limit if they were about the challenger, or something the challenger has said, otherwise, I don't think there's anything untoward about limiting them.
Also, IMO, we're starting to step into the behavior vs. intention debate. I think it is much easier to enforce rules that are based on behavior. Some think I'm uncharitable for suggesting this, but intentions are so much harder to know than behavior.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 15, 2005, at 22:17:06
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie » Lou Pilder, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 14, 2005, at 22:49:26
You seem to have abandoned this thread. Quite a few questions are left unanswered. Would you please answer the two that I'd like answered most?
1. Could you please tell me of three specific requests you’ve made that had replies relevant to the whole community?
2. Do you know that your requests lead some to feel accused or put down? (Note that I am not asking why you think your posts aren’t offensive, but whether or not you know that they are offensive to some.)
Thanks so much for sharing here. Like others, I've appreciated the non-multiple-choice responses. They seem a little warmer.
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