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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 56. Go back in thread:
Posted by Spriggy on June 10, 2005, at 14:15:04
In reply to Re: Me too! (nm) » Racer, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 10, 2005, at 13:12:07
I had no idea this had become such an issue. Quite frankly, my life has kept me so busy that I haven't much of a chance to catch up with you all as much as I would like.
Honestly, I want to make it very, very, very clear that nothing anyone said in response to my faith thread was offensive to me. Most people here that understand me, understand that humor is a large part of my personality and life. Even in difficult things like death, lupus, a son with autism, an unemployed husband,etc.. I am grateful to say I still have the ability to laugh! Not laugh or make light of all the serious situations I am in, but laugh because sometimes, life is just funny!
I have no problem with other people finding humor in difficult things either- even if it's difficult things I'm enduring. I welcome it in fact, if we can't laugh, that leaves us with the feeling that we are hopeless.
Humor is a gift from God. I don't see it as being at my expense- I see it as a gift.
Honestly, when I see things like this result from me sharing my heart, it really makes me question if I should ever even open again because I hate seeing chaos and people getting hurt.
I love you guys and want you to understand where I stand on this. I have not been offended.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 10, 2005, at 14:31:04
In reply to Can I say something here??????????????????, posted by Spriggy on June 10, 2005, at 14:15:04
> Honestly, when I see things like this result from me sharing my heart, it really makes me question if I should ever even open again because I hate seeing chaos and people getting hurt.
>
> I love you guys and want you to understand where I stand on this. I have not been offended.I'm with you on trying to keep a sense of humor. Please don't stop sharing. I love reading your posts!
Posted by Deneb on June 10, 2005, at 14:55:05
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung, posted by Lou Pilder on June 9, 2005, at 17:40:04
Posted by Jai Narayan on June 10, 2005, at 14:59:18
In reply to Dear Lou, posted by Slinky on June 9, 2005, at 19:34:00
loose stools...
oh honey...
gosh been there too...it's sh**y
love ya
Jai
Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 15:04:18
In reply to slinky now that's not a good reason to get blocked, posted by Jai Narayan on June 10, 2005, at 14:59:18
Spriggy, I'm glad you had a chance to voice your opinion. I just didn't want you to worry more. I know your positive attitude and Faith in God. And I know that you are definitely struggling with what life has dealt you. I guess I was trying to protect you like a mother. Love you my friend, Phillipa
Posted by Spriggy on June 10, 2005, at 15:14:49
In reply to Re: slinky now that's not a good reason to get blocked, posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 15:04:18
And if so, can I please get my allowance?
ROFL
((((love ya)))
Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 15:18:27
In reply to thanks Phillipa... can I call you mom? LOL, posted by Spriggy on June 10, 2005, at 15:14:49
Spriggy, I just put it in the mail! Love, Hugs, Kisses, Phillipa
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 10, 2005, at 16:32:15
In reply to thanks Phillipa... can I call you mom? LOL, posted by Spriggy on June 10, 2005, at 15:14:49
if I gave him a stern lecture right about now?
(((Spriggy)))
Posted by AuntieMel on June 10, 2005, at 16:47:36
In reply to Re: Lou? » Dinah, posted by Toph on June 10, 2005, at 12:16:10
Posted by Toph on June 10, 2005, at 17:02:57
In reply to Re: Lou? » Toph, posted by Racer on June 10, 2005, at 12:32:28
> > Some people would rather be despised than ignored.
>
> Can you clarify? ;-|
>
> Thank you for making this point. I don't want to speculate whether that is really what's happening here, but you just cut through a lot of chaff to find the heart of the wheat.
>
> Thank you.All I know is that when I am shown that I have upset another person, either accidentally, intentionally, or even justifiably, I am or I strive to be remorseful, and I strive to make whatever changes are necessary to avoid such harmful actions from reocurring. I am not always successful unfortunately. I am not saying that people should be like me, I'm mentally ill after all.
Posted by Racer on June 10, 2005, at 23:36:31
In reply to Re: Lou? » Racer, posted by Toph on June 10, 2005, at 17:02:57
Posted by gardenergirl on June 11, 2005, at 0:07:28
In reply to Lou's reply to gardenergirl- » gardenergirl, posted by Lou Pilder on June 9, 2005, at 18:07:00
Hi Lou,
I said that was "all I have to say about that", but I guess I was wrong. I was not going to post further on this, but I have found more to say about this process, and I have decided to say it publicly.But first, "F. Gump" refers to Forest Gump. The movie. I was quoting from the movie. It's a very good movie. Perhaps you would enjoy it and also find it inspiring. I know I learn more from F. Gump's life each time I see the movie.
Now, about this process. I have made comments about it in the past. I am not going to rehash those now, as I don't have the energy to do so. But I've gained first-hand knowledge now of what it feels like to be a subject of your requests for determination.
I feel hurt. Yes, it hurts. I feel empathy for others who have expressed similar feelings in the past. I suspect that my previous posts may not have validated their feelings. I want to do that now. I believe others when they say they have been hurt as well.
And may I say that the timing also sucked royally? I do not believe that the timing was anything more than a coincidence; however, let's just say that it certainly did not help to turn my birthday blues around. But that's not your job, so I am not angry with you for the timing of your post. But I am hurt by what I infer from your question about my post.
And that truly is all I have to say about that.
gg
Posted by Spriggy on June 11, 2005, at 1:11:46
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to gardenergirl- » Lou Pilder, posted by gardenergirl on June 11, 2005, at 0:07:28
Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2005, at 3:02:45
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2005, at 5:09:43
I can understand why people feel upset about some of the requests for determination.
I can also understand why in general it is inappropriate to joke about death.
But... Humour in the face of struggle can be really useful.
I think Lou is trying to understand the civility rules the best he can.
One of the hardest things to get is context.
How something can be fine in one context and not so fine in another.
Maybe 'joking about death' is one of those.I think Lou is trying to understand
And that he doesn't mean to hurt
But he has a hard time understandingIt is hard...
For everyone
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 11, 2005, at 7:11:31
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2005, at 3:02:45
I think Lou understands how much he hurts people with his reuqests.. Its been explained to him time and again..
*shrugs*
I guess everyone can draw their own opinions from that..
Nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 11:33:22
In reply to Re: Lou's request » alexandra_k, posted by NikkiT2 on June 11, 2005, at 7:11:31
> he hurts people with his reuqests..
I'm really sorry, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 11:34:41
In reply to Re: Lou? » Racer, posted by Toph on June 10, 2005, at 17:02:57
> Some people would rather be despised than ignored.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were other alternatives?
> when I am shown that I have upset another person, either accidentally, intentionally, or even justifiably, I am or I strive to be remorseful, and I strive to make whatever changes are necessary to avoid such harmful actions from reocurring.
Even if you think it's justifiable?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 12:08:42
In reply to I am very much offended by this thread. » Lou Pilder, posted by Racer on June 9, 2005, at 23:46:57
> these constant requests ... do not seem to add any value to this site.
>
> it looks to me like intentional misunderstanding.Sorry, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
> I figure, if someone actually *does* have a problem with a post, that person is perfectly capable of coming here him or herself to say so.
Not everyone is always able to be as assertive as they might like...
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Racer on June 11, 2005, at 12:23:30
In reply to Re: please be civil » Racer, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 12:08:42
I guess I was too worked up to succeed on that front. I did try, though, to keep it all about what I felt, rather than saying it *was.*
And you're right -- sometimes we don't feel up to asserting ourselves. I know there have been times when I've read a response to something I've written, and wanted to crawl into a hole -- but not thought that I had the right to respond.
Meanwhile, while I do apologize for smudging the civility guidelines, my sentiments were expressed in that post. Thank you for respecting those sentiments.
Posted by Racer on June 11, 2005, at 12:37:25
In reply to Re: whatever changes are necessary, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 11:34:41
> > Some people would rather be despised than ignored.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if there were other alternatives?
>
> > when I am shown that I have upset another person, either accidentally, intentionally, or even justifiably, I am or I strive to be remorseful, and I strive to make whatever changes are necessary to avoid such harmful actions from reocurring.
>
> Even if you think it's justifiable?
>
> BobThis has nothing to do with the topic under discussion in this thread, but doesn't that strike you as an interesting question? If you find that someone was hurt by your words or actions, but you still feel that your behavior was justified, what does striving to avoid such things look like?
Somewhere, a philosopher has written on this subject, no doubt. I haven't come across it. (Philosophy? My first introductions were Wittgenstein and Plato -- NOT incentives to look farther...)
I do know that one of my former Ts, back in the eighties, tried to work on a related subject with me: she thought that I put too much effort into not hurting anyone else's feelings, and thus didn't express my own, and that the net result was that I was the only one hurt. Still, I can see ways to be authentic, and yet try to avoid hurting someone else. Here at home, for one example, I never say anyone *is* bad -- except for the one cat who truly *is* a Freakazoid -- but I will say that someone is *behaving* badly. Since several members of my family are known for saying things like, "You're an @$$hole" -- even to family members, whom they "love" -- and I know how much that hurts, I consider it part of my own code of ethical conduct never to say something that I think would hurt me the way that sort of comment did. And does, of course, because age does not necessarily bring wisdom...
So, Dr Bob, and maybe this should have a new thread since it's off topic, what do you think? Is it possible to strive to avoid hurting someone, even though you think that what you've done that caused the hurt in the first place was justified? I think so, but I am curious about other people's take on it.
Also, I am assuming that I've read that question accurately. I read: if you feel justified, but someone got hurt, is there an alternative that you can strive toward to avoid the pain caused to another -- even though you were justified? If that's not what you meant, think of Gilda Radner as Emily Litella saying, "Oh. That's different. Never mind!"
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 12:47:23
In reply to I tried to speak only for myself, sorry » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on June 11, 2005, at 12:23:30
Posted by Toph on June 11, 2005, at 16:21:17
In reply to Re: whatever changes are necessary, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 11:34:41
> > Some people would rather be despised than ignored.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if there were other alternatives?
>Yes, and there are, of course. You suggest change in your title. Having a desire to change oneself certainly increases the likelihood for change.
> > when I am shown that I have upset another person, either accidentally, intentionally, or even justifiably, I am or I strive to be remorseful, and I strive to make whatever changes are necessary to avoid such harmful actions from reocurring.
>
> Even if you think it's justifiable?
>Yes, I hate it when I upset someone. I make observations, corrections, suggestions and criticisms that I frequently regret, not because I was unjustified in my actions, but because the result was harmful in some way. I have learned that rules of civil discourse are necessary for a supportive forum. But those I prefer to associate with most here have another characteristic that appeals to me. They are considerate. They care about the feelings of others and endeavor to consider the reaction of others in the judicious use of their powerful words and thoughts. I wish I were more considerate and I hope that if people repeatedly asked me to be less disruptive, hyper-sensitive, judgemental, hyper-vigilant, obsessive, critical or inconsiderate that I would listen. And so as not to be hypocritical, I am sorry if my prior words in this thread were hurtful to anyone who may have identified with them.
Toph
Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2005, at 18:07:14
In reply to That is a *really* interesting question... » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on June 11, 2005, at 12:37:25
> > > when I am shown that I have upset another person, either accidentally, intentionally, or even justifiably, I am or I strive to be remorseful, and I strive to make whatever changes are necessary to avoid such harmful actions from reocurring.
> > Even if you think it's justifiable?
> If you find that someone was hurt by your words or actions, but you still feel that your behavior was justified, what does striving to avoid such things look like?
In my case I think it looks like
Sorry
Sorry
Sorry
Without really changing my behaviour.
> Somewhere, a philosopher has written on this subject, no doubt. I haven't come across it. (Philosophy? My first introductions were Wittgenstein and Plato -- NOT incentives to look farther...)Heh heh. If anyone knows of someone who has written on it I would be interested too.
I think...
(Ok, so this is Plato)
Socrates used to go around upsetting people. He didn't intentionally mean to upset them, but that is a consequence of what he did to be sure. He was convicted of 'corrupting the young' and some other trumphed up charges.What is interesting is that the main problem that other people had with them is that they felt foolish in talking to him. He would ask them what they thought knowledge etc was and by a series of questions they were led to circularity or contradiction and their ignorance was exposed. He did this in order to show them that they didn't know the answer to his question. The notion was that then they could have joined him in trying to find out. But by thinking they knew when they didn't they weren't even in a position to find out.
He could have got off the charges if he had agreed to stop questioning people. He drank the hemlock instead. Thus becoming something of a tragic hero.
>too much effort into not hurting anyone else's feelings, and thus didn't express my own, and that the net result was that I was the only one hurt.Yup. I think a fair few of us have thought our feelings / thoughts / opinions bad or dirty or wrong or shameful or whatever and not expressed them.
>Still, I can see ways to be authentic, and yet try to avoid hurting someone else.
Yeah. There has to be a middle ground. But I don't know... Depends what is going on for you I guess. I seem to be upsetting people in persisting in talking about small boards. I've even done the 'sorry sorry sorry' thing. But, at the end of the day... I'm not going to hide stuff so that others feel better. I've done that too much in the past. The greatest value I find in Babble is in being able to express myself and feel less dirty / shameful / embarrased as a result. I'm not going to have that ruined for me. But... Tact and diplomacy is important too... And there must be a middle way.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 12, 2005, at 13:01:42
In reply to Re: please be civil » Racer, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2005, at 12:08:42
> Not everyone is always able to be as assertive as they might like...
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobBut even if they aren't, others actively involved in the thread might be?
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 12, 2005, at 13:11:13
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 12, 2005, at 13:01:42
> > Not everyone is always able to be as assertive as they might like...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
>
> But even if they aren't, others actively involved in the thread might be?I should have changed the subject on that post. I didn't mean to imply that you were uncivil. I was just responding to the post...
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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