![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 17:09:09
Hi all. I am currently struggling a bit, and need some help. Every night, when I lay down to sleep, I get this nervous, restlessness feeling inside. The only way I know how to describe it is that it feels like nervous butterflies. Sometimes it comes in waves, and I have to move around or sit up in order to be able to deal with the feeling. I toss and turn until I finally get up and melt a clonazepam under my tongue. I've been taking .5mg clonazepam most nights, which helps a lot. Clonazepam + a warm bath usually does the trick. Once I get to sleep, I typically sleep well through the night with no problems and wake up rested. However, I would really like to get to the bottem of this problem. Am I dealing with Akathisia or some form of Restless Leg Syndrome?
I take 200mg of Zoloft every morning for anxiety/ocd. I have been taking this dose for about 3 years. Before that, I took 40mg Paxil/day for about 10 years. I've been dealing with this restlessness at night for about a year now. Some nights it's worse than others. It only affects me late at night when I lay down to go to sleep. It's not normal anxiety. I know what that feels like, and that isn't it. It's not my mind racing or general anxiety. It feels more like that feeling you get as a kid when you're going to do something really exciting the next day, and you can't go to sleep no matter how hard you try.
I am seeing my doctor this week, and want to go in with as much information as possible so I can have a productive (and hopefully successful) visit. Here are a few things to consider:
1. I've been using an ecig for about a year now. I vape on it mostly all day and night. I started with a high dose of nicotine, but have lowered the amount significantly thinking the nicotine was causing the problem. The lower amount of nicotine doesn't seem to help much, but I'm still not sure this isn't the cause.
2. I don't have the best nutrition. I eat a lot of sugar and don't eat very healthy. Could this be a magnesium or B vitamin deficiency problem?
3. Most benzos DO help, but I don't want to take a benzo every day unless I absolutely have to. Propranolol didn't seem to help much at a 50mg does before bedtime.
A few things I'm considering trying: B-Complex w/ Magnesium, Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, or Clonodine.
Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Any similar experiences? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Aaron.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2015, at 20:37:59
In reply to Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 17:09:09
> Hi all. I am currently struggling a bit, and need some help. Every night, when I lay down to sleep, I get this nervous, restlessness feeling inside. The only way I know how to describe it is that it feels like nervous butterflies. Sometimes it comes in waves, and I have to move around or sit up in order to be able to deal with the feeling. I toss and turn until I finally get up and melt a clonazepam under my tongue. I've been taking .5mg clonazepam most nights, which helps a lot. Clonazepam + a warm bath usually does the trick. Once I get to sleep, I typically sleep well through the night with no problems and wake up rested. However, I would really like to get to the bottem of this problem. Am I dealing with Akathisia or some form of Restless Leg Syndrome?
>
> I take 200mg of Zoloft every morning for anxiety/ocd. I have been taking this dose for about 3 years. Before that, I took 40mg Paxil/day for about 10 years. I've been dealing with this restlessness at night for about a year now. Some nights it's worse than others. It only affects me late at night when I lay down to go to sleep. It's not normal anxiety. I know what that feels like, and that isn't it. It's not my mind racing or general anxiety. It feels more like that feeling you get as a kid when you're going to do something really exciting the next day, and you can't go to sleep no matter how hard you try.
>
> I am seeing my doctor this week, and want to go in with as much information as possible so I can have a productive (and hopefully successful) visit. Here are a few things to consider:
>
> 1. I've been using an ecig for about a year now. I vape on it mostly all day and night. I started with a high dose of nicotine, but have lowered the amount significantly thinking the nicotine was causing the problem. The lower amount of nicotine doesn't seem to help much, but I'm still not sure this isn't the cause.
>
> 2. I don't have the best nutrition. I eat a lot of sugar and don't eat very healthy. Could this be a magnesium or B vitamin deficiency problem?
>
> 3. Most benzos DO help, but I don't want to take a benzo every day unless I absolutely have to. Propranolol didn't seem to help much at a 50mg does before bedtime.
>
> A few things I'm considering trying: B-Complex w/ Magnesium, Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, or Clonodine.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Any similar experiences? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Aaron.
>Aaron,
You wrote,[...need some advise...].
What you are experiencing does come from taking mind-altering chemicals in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor for years. But is it any wonder that if you continue to take these chemicals that even worse could befall you, even death? You see, thousands of people are killed each and every month by these drugs that you take. And they could be addictive so that stopping them could put you in a state to want to kill yourself or others, even commit mass-murder.
If you take the advise from me like a brother, it could all go in one ear and out the other.
Go to your prescriber. Here is a hypothetical conversation with a hypothetical doctor, Dr. Quackenbush, and his client, Helen Weilz.
Helen Weilz: I am here because I have a nervous and restless feeling inside, like akathisea. This Lou guy on a psychiatrist's site says that because I have been taking mind-altering drugs for years that the drugs could induce this condition.
Dr. Quackenbush: He's right.
Helen Weilz: Then how can this condition stop?
Dr. Quackenbush: We try other drugs but the condition may be permanent.
Helen Weilz: Well, would not it get worse if you gave me more drugs?
Dr. Quackenbush: That could be.
Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that death could happen from these drugs if I keep taking them and that thousands of people each month are killed by these drugs. Is he right?
Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that not only could death come to me from these drugs that if I stop them they are addictive and I could go into a worse state. Is he right?
Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
Helen Weilz: Then I should have listened to him 15 years ago before I started taking these drugs from you.
Dr. Quackenbush: Perhaps so, for I am considering quitting psychiatry and not be party to the deaths of people from these drugs. I do not want their blood to be upon me. I feel that I have been deceiving people and misleading them to think that the drugs are medicines, but they are just chemicals made from motor oil and the commercials on television make up the greatest successful false advertising campaign in history. What else does this Lou guy say?Lou
Posted by Scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 21:41:52
In reply to Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » scleme1, posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2015, at 20:37:59
> > Hi all. I am currently struggling a bit, and need some help. Every night, when I lay down to sleep, I get this nervous, restlessness feeling inside. The only way I know how to describe it is that it feels like nervous butterflies. Sometimes it comes in waves, and I have to move around or sit up in order to be able to deal with the feeling. I toss and turn until I finally get up and melt a clonazepam under my tongue. I've been taking .5mg clonazepam most nights, which helps a lot. Clonazepam + a warm bath usually does the trick. Once I get to sleep, I typically sleep well through the night with no problems and wake up rested. However, I would really like to get to the bottem of this problem. Am I dealing with Akathisia or some form of Restless Leg Syndrome?
> >
> > I take 200mg of Zoloft every morning for anxiety/ocd. I have been taking this dose for about 3 years. Before that, I took 40mg Paxil/day for about 10 years. I've been dealing with this restlessness at night for about a year now. Some nights it's worse than others. It only affects me late at night when I lay down to go to sleep. It's not normal anxiety. I know what that feels like, and that isn't it. It's not my mind racing or general anxiety. It feels more like that feeling you get as a kid when you're going to do something really exciting the next day, and you can't go to sleep no matter how hard you try.
> >
> > I am seeing my doctor this week, and want to go in with as much information as possible so I can have a productive (and hopefully successful) visit. Here are a few things to consider:
> >
> > 1. I've been using an ecig for about a year now. I vape on it mostly all day and night. I started with a high dose of nicotine, but have lowered the amount significantly thinking the nicotine was causing the problem. The lower amount of nicotine doesn't seem to help much, but I'm still not sure this isn't the cause.
> >
> > 2. I don't have the best nutrition. I eat a lot of sugar and don't eat very healthy. Could this be a magnesium or B vitamin deficiency problem?
> >
> > 3. Most benzos DO help, but I don't want to take a benzo every day unless I absolutely have to. Propranolol didn't seem to help much at a 50mg does before bedtime.
> >
> > A few things I'm considering trying: B-Complex w/ Magnesium, Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, or Clonodine.
> >
> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Any similar experiences? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Aaron.
> >
>
> Aaron,
> You wrote,[...need some advise...].
> What you are experiencing does come from taking mind-altering chemicals in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor for years. But is it any wonder that if you continue to take these chemicals that even worse could befall you, even death? You see, thousands of people are killed each and every month by these drugs that you take. And they could be addictive so that stopping them could put you in a state to want to kill yourself or others, even commit mass-murder.
> If you take the advise from me like a brother, it could all go in one ear and out the other.
> Go to your prescriber. Here is a hypothetical conversation with a hypothetical doctor, Dr. Quackenbush, and his client, Helen Weilz.
> Helen Weilz: I am here because I have a nervous and restless feeling inside, like akathisea. This Lou guy on a psychiatrist's site says that because I have been taking mind-altering drugs for years that the drugs could induce this condition.
> Dr. Quackenbush: He's right.
> Helen Weilz: Then how can this condition stop?
> Dr. Quackenbush: We try other drugs but the condition may be permanent.
> Helen Weilz: Well, would not it get worse if you gave me more drugs?
> Dr. Quackenbush: That could be.
> Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that death could happen from these drugs if I keep taking them and that thousands of people each month are killed by these drugs. Is he right?
> Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
> Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that not only could death come to me from these drugs that if I stop them they are addictive and I could go into a worse state. Is he right?
> Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
> Helen Weilz: Then I should have listened to him 15 years ago before I started taking these drugs from you.
> Dr. Quackenbush: Perhaps so, for I am considering quitting psychiatry and not be party to the deaths of people from these drugs. I do not want their blood to be upon me. I feel that I have been deceiving people and misleading them to think that the drugs are medicines, but they are just chemicals made from motor oil and the commercials on television make up the greatest successful false advertising campaign in history. What else does this Lou guy say?
>
> LouLou > What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
Aaron.
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2015, at 22:21:55
In reply to Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 17:09:09
Akathisia with Zoloft (sertraline) is not unusual. This might be because it is an antagonist of sigma-1 receptors; something unique among the SSRIs. Luvox (fluvoxamine) does just the opposite. Still, you might not be experiencing akathisia per se. In akathisia, there are no focal sensations in the limbs. Also, akathisia presents all day long, not just at bedtime.
Have you tried Luvox?
Just curious:
Did Paxil stop working for you while you were still taking it - "poop-out"? Alternatively, did you stop taking Paxil while you were in remission, only to have it fail to work again once you restarted it upon relapse?
I wish I could have been of more help. Your experience might very well be behavioral and psychosomatic. CBT could be your answer.
- Scott
Posted by Scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 23:12:09
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » scleme1, posted by SLS on June 29, 2015, at 22:21:55
> Akathisia with Zoloft (sertraline) is not unusual. This might be because it is an antagonist of sigma-1 receptors; something unique among the SSRIs. Luvox (fluvoxamine) does just the opposite. Still, you might not be experiencing akathisia per se. In akathisia, there are no focal sensations in the limbs. Also, akathisia presents all day long, not just at bedtime.
>
> Have you tried Luvox?
>
> Just curious:
>
> Did Paxil stop working for you while you were still taking it - "poop-out"? Alternatively, did you stop taking Paxil while you were in remission, only to have it fail to work again once you restarted it upon relapse?
>
> I wish I could have been of more help. Your experience might very well be behavioral and psychosomatic. CBT could be your answer.
>
>
> - ScottHey Scott. Thanks for the reply. I hope you're right in that it's psychosomatic. CBT seems like a much better choice than having to add another med.
My Paxil story is an interesting one. The reason I switched to Zoloft was on the advice of my therapist. One of my big anxiety/OCD triggers was the Paxil. I would obsess about the med (long-term side effects, poop-out, effectiveness, withdrawal if I ever had to come off), and would read horror stories all over the web about Paxil. My therapist wanted to prove to me that switching to another med could be done. The transition was a piece of cake. Honestly, there was nothing noticeable about the switch. Sometimes I think Paxil worked better for my symptoms, but it might be a "grass is greener" type thing, too. The Zoloft works well enough...so here I am. My anxiety is probably fueling my insomnia/Akathisia/RLS a little bit, too...so that's not helping any. I have I idea if Paxil would be as effective for me the 2nd time around.
I've considered Luvox on several occasions, but my doc thinks it's a "dirty" SSRI...meaning not very "selective".
Thanks again for your help.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 6:47:04
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Lou Pilder, posted by Scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 21:41:52
> > > Hi all. I am currently struggling a bit, and need some help. Every night, when I lay down to sleep, I get this nervous, restlessness feeling inside. The only way I know how to describe it is that it feels like nervous butterflies. Sometimes it comes in waves, and I have to move around or sit up in order to be able to deal with the feeling. I toss and turn until I finally get up and melt a clonazepam under my tongue. I've been taking .5mg clonazepam most nights, which helps a lot. Clonazepam + a warm bath usually does the trick. Once I get to sleep, I typically sleep well through the night with no problems and wake up rested. However, I would really like to get to the bottem of this problem. Am I dealing with Akathisia or some form of Restless Leg Syndrome?
> > >
> > > I take 200mg of Zoloft every morning for anxiety/ocd. I have been taking this dose for about 3 years. Before that, I took 40mg Paxil/day for about 10 years. I've been dealing with this restlessness at night for about a year now. Some nights it's worse than others. It only affects me late at night when I lay down to go to sleep. It's not normal anxiety. I know what that feels like, and that isn't it. It's not my mind racing or general anxiety. It feels more like that feeling you get as a kid when you're going to do something really exciting the next day, and you can't go to sleep no matter how hard you try.
> > >
> > > I am seeing my doctor this week, and want to go in with as much information as possible so I can have a productive (and hopefully successful) visit. Here are a few things to consider:
> > >
> > > 1. I've been using an ecig for about a year now. I vape on it mostly all day and night. I started with a high dose of nicotine, but have lowered the amount significantly thinking the nicotine was causing the problem. The lower amount of nicotine doesn't seem to help much, but I'm still not sure this isn't the cause.
> > >
> > > 2. I don't have the best nutrition. I eat a lot of sugar and don't eat very healthy. Could this be a magnesium or B vitamin deficiency problem?
> > >
> > > 3. Most benzos DO help, but I don't want to take a benzo every day unless I absolutely have to. Propranolol didn't seem to help much at a 50mg does before bedtime.
> > >
> > > A few things I'm considering trying: B-Complex w/ Magnesium, Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, or Clonodine.
> > >
> > > Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Any similar experiences? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Aaron.
> > >
> >
> > Aaron,
> > You wrote,[...need some advise...].
> > What you are experiencing does come from taking mind-altering chemicals in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor for years. But is it any wonder that if you continue to take these chemicals that even worse could befall you, even death? You see, thousands of people are killed each and every month by these drugs that you take. And they could be addictive so that stopping them could put you in a state to want to kill yourself or others, even commit mass-murder.
> > If you take the advise from me like a brother, it could all go in one ear and out the other.
> > Go to your prescriber. Here is a hypothetical conversation with a hypothetical doctor, Dr. Quackenbush, and his client, Helen Weilz.
> > Helen Weilz: I am here because I have a nervous and restless feeling inside, like akathisea. This Lou guy on a psychiatrist's site says that because I have been taking mind-altering drugs for years that the drugs could induce this condition.
> > Dr. Quackenbush: He's right.
> > Helen Weilz: Then how can this condition stop?
> > Dr. Quackenbush: We try other drugs but the condition may be permanent.
> > Helen Weilz: Well, would not it get worse if you gave me more drugs?
> > Dr. Quackenbush: That could be.
> > Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that death could happen from these drugs if I keep taking them and that thousands of people each month are killed by these drugs. Is he right?
> > Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
> > Helen Weilz: This Lou guy says that not only could death come to me from these drugs that if I stop them they are addictive and I could go into a worse state. Is he right?
> > Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is right.
> > Helen Weilz: Then I should have listened to him 15 years ago before I started taking these drugs from you.
> > Dr. Quackenbush: Perhaps so, for I am considering quitting psychiatry and not be party to the deaths of people from these drugs. I do not want their blood to be upon me. I feel that I have been deceiving people and misleading them to think that the drugs are medicines, but they are just chemicals made from motor oil and the commercials on television make up the greatest successful false advertising campaign in history. What else does this Lou guy say?
> >
> > Lou
>
>
>
> Lou > What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
>
> Aaron.Friends,
The poster here has posted disparaging statements about my character that are false and could decrease the respect, regard and confidence in which I am held and induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions about me. This is all allowed here by Mr. Hsuing and any deputy of record to be seen as being supportive and in Mr. Hsiung's thinking it will be good for his community as a whole to be seen that way, for he states that if he does nothing to a statement it is not against his rules, and worse, it will be good for his community as a whole to stand un sanctioned that could lead readers to think that it is supportive being that he states that being supportive takes precedence.
This IMHHHHO could lead to your death, for I am trying to prevent addictions and life-ruining conditions and death here by posting facts, facts that could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse. And you mothers, trying to make a more -informed decision as to drug your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, be advised that I am prevented from posting what I need to here to save lives due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. But others could post what you se here about me with impunity.
Here is a link that shows over 200 deaths in just one year reported to the FDA from Zoloft being in the mix of the drugs of the dead. Please read them, for it is so easy to persuade the un informed so I would like for you to be informed. Then you could make your own determination as to if what I write here is true. There are thousands of people being killed by these drugs each and every month. They can not speak here to warn you. But if someone came back from the dead, would you listen to Him?
Lou
http://www.druglib.com/reported-side-effects/zoloft/seriousness_death
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 7:43:24
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 23:12:09
"Dirty" does not mean undesirable. One person's dirty equals another person's remission. It is very often the case where someone needs more than one pharmacological effect to get well. Luvox is often the most effective SSRI for OCD. However it can also be sedating and sleep-promting. Luvox might have the lowest risk of producing akathisia precisely because it is dirty (sigma-1 receptor agonist). Luvox is somewhat sedating and might help with insomnia and anxiety at bedtime.
Adding Remeron would be interesting. It can be anxiolytic for some people and very often sleep-promoting at low dosages. Remeron might also make an SSRI or SNRI more effective for depression, especially at higher dosages.
I can see how CBT might be very helpful for you, particularly because you seem to have a psychological association between being in bed the triggering of anxiety.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/overcoming-insomnia
Ulltimately, you may need to switch antidepressants and add CBT. You might as well begin CBT now and create a plan for sequencing medication trials if necessary.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 8:14:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Lou Pilder, posted by Scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 21:41:52
> Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
Hi, Aaron.
I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
- Scott
Posted by Scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 8:36:51
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » Scleme1, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 7:43:24
> Adding Remeron would be interesting. It can be anxiolytic for some people and very often sleep-promoting at low dosages. Remeron might also make an SSRI or SNRI more effective for depression, especially at higher dosages.
>I remember trying Remeron 15 years ago. It was the closest thing to being a zombie I can imagine without actually dying and becoming reanimated. Sounds like it might be just the thing I need right now!
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 8:36:51
It is certainly not b*llsh*t that akathisia can be permanent after discontinuation of your meds.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 15:03:54
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
> It is certainly not b*llsh*t that akathisia can be permanent after discontinuation of your meds.
>
> L,
clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap
Lou
Posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2015, at 16:33:38
In reply to Lou's response-death by Zoloft » Scleme1, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 6:47:04
It's not all about you.
I don't see the evidence of humility. (HHHH)
Are you the Christ/Messiah/Savior? Or, do you know Him? If not, who has come back from the dead that you refer to?
Posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
yep, pretty much any chemical that alters brain function in such a profound way can have permanent negative effects in certain people.
and in some cases psychiatric meds can even have positive permanent effects.what/who makes anyone think the effects psych meds have on the brain cant possibly, especially the negative ones, be permanent? are these sources anywhere near as trustworthy as someone you know personally that you can put your full trust in?
Posted by scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 17:39:44
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
I don't know where we got off target here, but I'm never asked whether or not this feeling is permanent. I just wanted to get opinions on what the feelings might be - Akathisia, RLS, Anxiety, etc - so I could start trying to address the cause.
If Lou the Idiot would stop trolling and hijacking my thread, I might get some sound answers. This place used to be where incredibly smart and well educated people hung out and helped each other.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-death by Zoloft » Lou Pilder, posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2015, at 16:33:38
> It's not all about you.
>
> I don't see the evidence of humility. (HHHH)
>
> Are you the Christ/Messiah/Savior? Or, do you know Him? If not, who has come back from the dead that you refer to?10,
It was years ago. And I was in The Garden when death came into the world. And in the midst of The Garden was the Rider on a white horse. And I saw death come into Adam and Eve. Gone were the green fields that they used to know.
And then the Rider and Adam were talking and I could understand their words. Adam said, "Look what we have done. Death has come into the world because of us. What must we do to be saved?"
The rider said, "Let not your heart be troubled. If you believe in God, believe in me also. For you are the first Adam that has brought death to come into the world and The Garden you have to leave. But I am the Last Adam, where death will be cast into The Lake of Fire and cause the return to The Garden. For I must die first and then I will live again to overcome death and bring you back to where you once belonged."
Lou
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 19:54:15
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
Hi.
> yep, pretty much any chemical that alters brain function in such a profound way can have permanent negative effects in certain people.
Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 20:41:38
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
> It is certainly not b*llsh*t that akathisia can be permanent after discontinuation of your meds.
Yes. This is called TARDIVE akathisia (as opposed to acute akathisia). It is sometimes irreversible. It emerges only after taking an antipsychotic for an extended period of time. It occurs infrequently with the use of older antipsychotics and rarely with the newer ones. I don't think there are any statistics regarding this. Of the newer drugs, my guess is that Abilify has the greatest potential to produce acute (immediate) reversible akathisia, although Clozaril might also be liable. A lot of people experience mild akathisia-like symptoms when beginnng treatment with Abilify. By contrast, I found only two cases of what is described as tardive akathisia with Abilify on Medline.
--------------------------------------
I think the term "akathisia" is overused. It is often mistaken for anxiety and agitation. The symptoms that best discriminated akathisia from non-akathisia are:
- rapid shifting weight from foot to foot while standing
- walking in place
- inability to keep legs still
- feelings of inner restlessness
- shifting of body position in a chair.
- rocking forwards and backwords in a chair--------------------------------------
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 21:32:50
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 20:41:38
That's a lot of zoloft. Maybe its akathisia? I would think at that dose you'd see some antipsychoitc-ish side effects. RLS is, I think, related to akathisia in a lot of psych patients...don't they treat it with sedatives and dopamine agonists?
Not an expert, but...maybe gabepentin, or the new one...lyrica...a benzo, high dose b6 might help...add wellbutrin (?).
Hope you and your doc figure something out.
Posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2015, at 23:58:32
In reply to Lou's response-The Garden » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
Ok, Lou.
Some of my favorite Jews are Messianic. But...whatever.
I will stop contributing to the hijack of scleme1's thread now.
Will you?
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:30:56
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 21:32:50
> That's a lot of zoloft. Maybe its akathisia? I would think at that dose you'd see some antipsychoitc-ish side effects. RLS is, I think, related to akathisia in a lot of psych patients...don't they treat it with sedatives and dopamine agonists?
>
> Not an expert, but...maybe gabepentin, or the new one...lyrica...a benzo, high dose b6 might help...add wellbutrin (?).
>
> Hope you and your doc figure something out.Lyrica is a good choice for akathisia, from what I've read. However, I wouldn't want to take a drug that produces chronic akathisia unless there were no other choice. I don't know what percentage of cases of acute or chronic, or tardive akathisia go on to become irreversible. I have been taking Abilify for over 10 years. Right now, I have no concerns. If I were to develop akathisia - which would be tardive - I would stop it immediately. I don't know what I would use as a substitute. It is unique among available antipsychotics as it is a dopamine receptor partial agonist.
- Scott
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » scleme1, posted by SLS on June 29, 2015, at 22:21:55
> Akathisia with Zoloft (sertraline) is not unusual. This might be because it is an antagonist of sigma-1 receptors; something unique among the SSRIs. Luvox (fluvoxamine) does just the opposite. Still, you might not be experiencing akathisia per se. In akathisia, there are no focal sensations in the limbs. Also, akathisia presents all day long, not just at bedtime.
>
> Have you tried Luvox?> Your experience might very well be behavioral and psychosomatic. CBT could be your answer.
>
>
> - ScottI agree with Scott (not that I'm nearly as knowledgeable) about zoloft - and some other SSRIs - being capable of causing akathisia as well as his observation that what you report experiencing solely at night time is unlikely to be akathisia.
As regards RLS, SSRIs can also cause this, but in your recount you don't mention symptoms concentrated initially and primarily in the legs, and neither do you state that the urge to move worsens with rest or immobility. RLS is usually worse in the evening but is definitely not restricted to that period. Do you get heavy, irritable limbs during the day when you relax, like when you watch the TV? With RLS, movement usually brings immediate relief - do you get *relief* through moving?
Apart from medication, low iron levels can cause RLS. Have you had these checked?
If your mental health can sustain it, I wonder whether it might be prudent to lower your zoloft a bit and see whether the symptoms improve? I experienced exactly what you describe when I was taking more than 300mg of effexor; the symptoms disappeared when I reduced to 225mg.
As for medications to treat RLS (and also I think akathisia), a dopamine agonist may be helpful. For RLS, pramipexole is usually prescribed.
Good luck.
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Scleme1, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 8:14:38
> > Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
>
> Hi, Aaron.
>
> I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
>
> I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
>
> I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
>
> Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> - ScottHi also Aaron.
Scott's advice is, on the relevant subject, salutory. I regrettably left psychobabble for months because of the persistent, mostly unconstructive, mostly poorly-informed, mostly inapposite, and sometimes highly offensive and accusatory interventions by Mr Pilder to threads initiated by members with conscientious questions who are suffering often intractable conditions and symptoms. I left at a time when I first started on parnate and needed all the well-informed advice and support I could get. Since leaving, I have had two hypertensive crises, one very dangerous, but felt disinclined to resume my participation here because of the apprehension that Mr. Pilder would seek irrelevantly to monopolise any thread I might compose. Reading his interventions - even seeing them listed in the thread - became a source of anxiety and deep disappointment. Responding to them even more so: nothing can be gained from doing so, and much can be compromised, including one's mental health and the confidence one has in pyschobabble as a forum worth remaining associated with and contributing to.
I commend the substance of your response to Mr Pilder but, in your best interests, it would be best to make it your last.
Best.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 5:59:15
In reply to Why are we talking about permanent effects??, posted by scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 17:39:44
> I don't know where we got off target here, but I'm never asked whether or not this feeling is permanent. I just wanted to get opinions on what the feelings might be - Akathisia, RLS, Anxiety, etc - so I could start trying to address the cause.
>
> If Lou the Idiot would stop trolling and hijacking my thread, I might get some sound answers. This place used to be where incredibly smart and well educated people hung out and helped each other.Friends,
Be advised that the slander against me here is just another tactic allowed here to defame me and then reduce the regard and respect and confidence in which I am held which could induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. The false charges against me here could sway you to disregard what I write here that IMHHHO what I write could save your life, prevent life-ruining conditions, addictions and death.
This is not a new tactic but an old tactic to arouse ill-will toward a member of a community that posts from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. The fact that it is allowed by the governing body here to post disparaging epithets about me with impunity, could stigmatize me and lead readers to think that it will be good for this community as a whole for the hate to be seen as being supportive, for being supportive takes precedence according to Mr. Hsiung here.
It is this fostering of anti-Semitic hate here that I think could cost you your life or your child's life as you or your child being a victim of anti-Semitic propaganda being allowed to be seen as being supportive here by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record. Because it is being allowed to be seen as supportive, you could disregard my warnings about that thousands of people are killed each and every month from these drugs and you may not believe that because I said it and I am being made a target person here to be the recipient of defamation to be seen as supportive by Mr. Hsiung.
The children that are killed by these drugs can not speak here to warn you that your child could be killed by these drugs also. But is to call me an idiot and be allowed for it to stand something that this site could be held to promoting death? And if so, I do not want the readers that have been killed or will be killed by these drugs being promoted here to have their blood be upon me. That is not trolling, but trying to save lives for I do not want children to suffer a horrible death by them. For when those that take these drugs get a movement disorder from the drugs, that is a time where many kill themselves and commit mass-murder, for they know not what to do and could not even know that it comes from the drugs that they are taking in collaboration with a psychiatrist. This is one way that the drugs kill innocent people. In the state of akathisia, they don't know what to do and can go off in a shooting rampage. This thread is where the poster asks for advise. With that request, there can be a response to it. So don't tell me what to say and don't tell me what to do. You can promote drugs here that can cause death, so could I not respond to your promotion of these drugs to warn readers of the tragic consequences that these drugs can induce? If not, why not?
Lou
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 6:21:40
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
Correction:
I characterized Zoloft (sertraline) as being a sigma-1 antagonist. It is a sigma-1 agonist.
My apologies.
- Scott
Posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:32:04
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
Thank you both for your input. Very insightful and helpful. After speaking with a Dr. friend of mine last night, I am also starting to believe this is not Akathisia or RLS. I believe this is either a case of simple anxiety and poor bedtime/bedroom practices (laying in bed on my phone for hours before bedtime, playing games on my phone until I can't keep my eyes open, etc.), nicotine overdose or withdrawal, or possibly a nutritional problem. I'm getting full labs done early next week to see if there's anything going on with my nutrition. I'll report back if anything surprising comes back next week.
Thanks again for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. Have a great day!
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