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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:43:44
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 12:39:51
> I've learned to only talk about my depression with fellow depressives. People who haven't suffered from depression just don't get it. They're the type who say, "Everyone gets depressed now and then." They equate ordinary sadness with depression. When I've been deeply depressed, one of my sisters deals with it by either acting like a happy clown around me, or by attacking me -- "Do you have to look that way! Can't you try to cheer up!" The best thing she could do is just leave me alone.
Thanks for the post Hugh. And I'm not surprised, but there are the words again, that people who are not depressed just don't get it. I am quickly learning as well Hugh, to only talk about my suffering with other depressives. But it seems it is a hard lesson to learn.
Regarding my gallbladder, I have to have it removed but I have not done so yet. I have too many other issues going on to take the time to do that yet. And the surgeon was perfectly willing for me to wait. For now, I am simply avoiding fat as much as possible to avoid another bout of biliary colic. And thanks for sharing that info about bile salts. Tell me, do you need a prescription for bile salts, or can you get them over the counter? Thanks again Hugh, and take care.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:48:20
In reply to Re: Why? » Twinleaf, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 13:20:37
> That is no excuse! These are lethal diseases and people don't want to hear about it. I feel bad for Kat and I know the road very well. There is no excuse.
> I've tried very hard never to say the word bipolar again to anybody because it's futile. I'm really angry.
> If I had cancer with a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of dying people would do anything to help. Guess what that's my odds with bipolar and no one cares. I can only take so much and I would like to give Kat a hug and we could go get plastered. Well, if I drank, anyway. lolawwwww thanks for the virtual hug Phil, and hell, I'd love to go get plastered with you - that is if I drank lol Funny we both don't drink. Weird thing is, I used to be a social drinker, but ect gave me a revulsion for alcohol. Weird huh??? And that is the only positive thing ect did for me, otherwise, it worsened my depression and made my meds stop working. Yuck, I hate even thinking about the experience.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:50:25
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 14:10:22
> I am in full agreement with you that it's no excuse. I brought it up because depressed people so often blame themselves for not being worthy enough to receive understanding and support when it has little or nothing to do with them. At these times, the depressed person is-acting human and normal, but the people who ignore and reject them are not.
Now that I completely agree with Twinleaf...thank you for your post! Hope you are well.
Kat
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 14:52:44
In reply to Re: Why? » Phil, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:48:20
I was a social drinker too. But I drank a 12 pack on the way to the party. Couple of blunts etc.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:52:56
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 14:11:58
> Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
> ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
>
>
> A friend is someone who knows all about you and still loves you.
> ― Elbert HubbardThose are great quotes Phil; thanks for sharing them. I doubt I'll ever achieve true power b/c I know with this damn disease that I'll never be able to master myself.
I love the second quote. It is sooooo very true.
Kat
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:55:47
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
I agree with Twinleaf.
An explanation is not an excuse. Understanding is not condonation.
There is no real blame here. Some people just can't cope with others having a chronic mental illness. It can be fatiguing, frustrating, and emotionally upsetting for them. It can be frightening, too. It gets old for us to be ill for so long. It gets old for them, too. Of course, they have the luxury of being able to separate themselves from the pain and suffering of the illness. We don't. It is sad that the people who love you should want to separate themselves from you.
There is something about "depression" and "anxiety" that seems familiar and normal to others who don't suffer from mental illness. This is because they have had experiences in life for which these same two words are attached. They wonder why you can't cope with these things while they can. Of course, you are not being asked to cope with those things. You are challenged by human conditions that are very much different and indeed foreign to those around you. These conditions are far worse in intensity and duration, and are unrelenting. Your first step might be to realize this and to give yourself the respect and admiration you deserve for surviving. You must tell yourself that you are actually very strong in the absence of affirmations by others. Your dignity and self-esteem depend on this.
You are doing a great job.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 16:34:26
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:55:47
Thanks Scott. I needed to hear all that very badly. I guess I was looking for affirmation in all the wrong places. You telling me that I am strong was exactly what I needed to hear. Because I do believe I'm strong, I'd have to be to make it through all the challenges I've faced of late. I need to boost my self esteem somehow so I can tell myself these things and not try to depend on others so much.
And I'd like to tell you that, not only are you brilliant when it comes to meds, you are incredibly kind and compassionate. :)
How are you doing these days?
Kat
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 17:04:54
In reply to Re: Why? » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 16:34:26
> And I'd like to tell you that, not only are you brilliant when it comes to meds, you are incredibly kind and compassionate. :)
Would you believe that I'm blushing right now?
> How are you doing these days?
Better.
Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2013, at 17:21:39
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
Kat sorry for being late to this thread just home. But others don't seem to care. And you are right that only those who have walked in your shoes will understand completely. Know this from experience. Even Medical personel don't except those that also have traveled the same road. And many of the psych both docs and RN's have and are fighting their own battles. Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 18:20:57
In reply to Re: Why? » Twinleaf, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:50:25
Thank you for asking, Kat. I have been doing much better with maintenance rTMS, tianeptine, and therapy for trauma-related anxiety and depression. I had a nosedive over Christmas, but am feeling a lot better now- after several TMS treatments. Because I have complex PTSD illness, therapy has been at the center of my feeling better the last three years, but I am talking to my doctors about Prazosin, mainly because of Scott's positive experience, and encouraging research articles I have read.
I'm so glad you recovered from the rhabdomyolysis- so scary! And on top of that you got the flu and have an ailing gallbladder! No doubt, you have a wonderful, strong constitution! I do hope you can find good treatment. I found that genetic testing helped me know that I needed dopamine- boosting drugs, and should avoid all SSRIs because i metabolized them so slowly - this helped everyone to focus on more helpful treatments.
Posted by baseball55 on January 6, 2013, at 19:01:59
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
My husband got so frustrated with my depression, which lasted on and off for three years, that he once said he wished I'd kill myself. We talk about it now. It's incredibly hard on loved ones. You are not the same person. People feel abandoned and overwhelmed and, if they've never suffered depression or never seen really severe depression, tend to blame you for not pulling it together, snapping out of it.
I had a close friend who went through a bout of severe depression and we would talk about it, because she knew I knew how it felt. And yet, even I found myself fighting an urge to tell her to exercise more, get out of the house, do this, do that. I felt completely abandoned. Suddenly we had no friendship anymore. We just had this misery and turning away to cope with. That's how I felt (though I didn't tell her this) and I had suffered from severe depression of pretty long duration.
So imagine how it feels to someone who never experienced this and never witnessed someone else experiencing this. A person you had a relationship with is suddenly gone emotionally. To my husband, it was like I no longer cared about him or my daughter, that I was completely self-absorbed.
Posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
In reply to Re: Why? » Hugh, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:43:44
>Tell me, do you need a prescription for bile salts, or can you get them over the counter? Thanks again Hugh, and take care.
> KatYou can buy them at health food stores or online.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 20:01:39
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by baseball55 on January 6, 2013, at 19:01:59
I have a friend whose wife developed schizophrenia shortly after they were married. He divorced her a few months ago after 41 years of marriage. Right or wrong, he gave a big part of his life and at 62 is bitter. Frankly I couldn't have done it because it was a chronic situation. Actually I never got married to avoid several potential traps, like the alcoholism I was around from 5 years old. I told myself in my early teens that there was no way I'd put myself in that position again. Just how I am.
No regrets coyote.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 6, 2013, at 20:27:00
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
Sorry to hear this Kat, I guess your mother in law isnt perfect, maybe she was having a bad day?
I have no experience of this realy, because I have always kept my illness to my self, about the most i will say when someone asks is "oh, up and down, you know" or somthing like that, I dont like people to know I'm ill, and even with those who know, i dont like to dwell on it.
Maybe say somthing to her like "I know that I've been sick a lot over the years, and I've always been greatful that you've been there with kindness and understanding", let her know that you appreciate it when she is kind, and also maybe give her a subtle nudge that she wasnt so kind recently.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on January 6, 2013, at 22:01:31
In reply to Re: Why? » baseball55, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 20:01:39
That's a pretty tragic story about your friend, Phil. I don't know how I'd handle that.
I've seen a lot of the chaos and damage alcohol causes, from a very young age.
Just wanted to say that.
Posted by alchemy on January 6, 2013, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
For some, that may seem extreme and unfair statement. My mom says she remembers me saying that I wish I had cancer instead. She has also heard another friend say it.
I am in no way discounting how bad cancer can be. I took care of my dad while he died of cancer. I wish I could have taken it from him, to relieve both of our sufferings. I was actually the one in the family that spent the most time nursing him because I understood pain. I had a harder time seeing him in pain than when he died.
How sad is it that at a cancer walk there are hundreds that show up, and at the NAMI walk I went to there were less than 100 probably. And even more so - that I was actually a little embarrassed to be there!
I am still learning my limits on reaching for friends and family for someone to at least listen. Their withdrawal or annoyance only makes it worse. But I get so desperate for someone to even talk to. The words "help me" are in my head, even though I know they can't.
Yet if I had cancer, or some other acceptable disease, the empathy would be pouring in and I would be heroic.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 23:04:49
In reply to Re: Why? » Phil, posted by sleepygirl2 on January 6, 2013, at 22:01:31
> That's a pretty tragic story about your friend, Phil. I don't know how I'd handle that.
> I've seen a lot of the chaos and damage alcohol causes, from a very young age.
> Just wanted to say that.
>
Thanks
He told me years ago what happened. She was a professional ballet dancer and suffered a career ending injury and another major blow, don't remember. He's a friend from another forum. Not long after she was diagnosed. It was tragic, he's a good guy and no doubt she is a great gal.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 16:26:04
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by baseball55 on January 6, 2013, at 19:01:59
Thanks baseball, your words are very wise. The only thing that really gets me is what your husband said to you. That must have hurt. But, having said that, I would not be surprised if my husband felt the same way, though I doubt he will ever say it. Damn! If only we could get better.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 16:27:13
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
> >Tell me, do you need a prescription for bile salts, or can you get them over the counter? Thanks again Hugh, and take care.
> > Kat
>
> You can buy them at health food stores or online.
>
> Thanks for the info Hugh!
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 16:29:54
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 6, 2013, at 20:27:00
> Sorry to hear this Kat, I guess your mother in law isnt perfect, maybe she was having a bad day?
>
> I have no experience of this realy, because I have always kept my illness to my self, about the most i will say when someone asks is "oh, up and down, you know" or somthing like that, I dont like people to know I'm ill, and even with those who know, i dont like to dwell on it.
>
> Maybe say somthing to her like "I know that I've been sick a lot over the years, and I've always been greatful that you've been there with kindness and understanding", let her know that you appreciate it when she is kind, and also maybe give her a subtle nudge that she wasnt so kind recently.Thanks for the excellent advice Jono! I'm gonna let some space and time go by, but when I do email my Stepmom I'm gonna say exactly what you suggested.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 17:04:29
In reply to Re: Why? Do you ever wish it was 'cancer', posted by alchemy on January 6, 2013, at 22:52:10
Alchemy, I have felt the same way. Like you, not belittling the pain and misery and tragedy that cancer can be. But I did once tell my therapist that if I had cancer rather than mental illness, at least people would sympathize more. I know it was a selfish wish. And now my beloved kitty, my baby, has cancer. I saw a bumper sticker on a car recently and it said 'F*ck Cancer'
Dammit I get so angry that people we love, out pets whom we love have to get cancer. And I get so angry that we all have to deal with debilitating mental illness.
I'm sick of it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kat
Posted by baseball55 on January 7, 2013, at 19:47:20
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 16:26:04
> Thanks baseball, your words are very wise. The only thing that really gets me is what your husband said to you. That must have hurt. But, having said that, I would not be surprised if my husband felt the same way, though I doubt he will ever say it. Damn! If only we could get better.
> KatMy husband's words hurt at the time, but I also knew, after years together, that what comes in his head tends to come out of his mouth. He vents and gets over it. But we recently talked about this -- about how completely unsupportive he was when my depression was severe. And he told me he was constantly plotting ways to kill me without getting caught. Even my daughter, with whom I had a very close and loving relationship, became estranged and when I tried to get her to talk to me -- this was after I was getting better -- she cried and got angry and said that she had a mother who twice tried to kill herself and could not bear being around me, it made her feel too destabilized.
I know (as in later post) that people with depression sometimes feel -- why do people with cancer (asthma, heart conditions, etc) get sympathy, while people with depression get anger and withdrawal? I think it is because cancer or heart disease doesn't change your personality. You are still you. The relationships you have are still the same relationships. This is not true when you suffer from mental illness.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 8, 2013, at 17:52:29
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by baseball55 on January 7, 2013, at 19:47:20
baseball,
You make an excellent point that when someone has a physical disease..heart disease, cancer, etc...they are still themselves personality wise. I know from experience that my extreme emotions and sever sobbing sessions scare my loved ones. I must keep this in mind.
But your husband had been plotting to kill you????? Are you safe??? That scares the hell out of me, I hope you are OK and not in danger!
Kat
Posted by baseball55 on January 8, 2013, at 18:43:03
In reply to Re: Why? » baseball55, posted by ChicagoKat on January 8, 2013, at 17:52:29
My husband wouldn't hurt a fly. He was just making a point about how stressful it was to live with me. He's really a pretty light-hearted guy, but my depression really put him under constant stress. And I had never been the sort of person to get depressed. I was moody but always snapped out of it Then for three years, I could barely hold on to my job, was in and out and in and out of hospitals. He was on the phone all the time with my p-doc who would call him whenever he thought I was in danger. It was really hard on him. I am a lot better now, and he is better too.
> baseball,
>
> You make an excellent point that when someone has a physical disease..heart disease, cancer, etc...they are still themselves personality wise. I know from experience that my extreme emotions and sever sobbing sessions scare my loved ones. I must keep this in mind.
>
> But your husband had been plotting to kill you????? Are you safe??? That scares the hell out of me, I hope you are OK and not in danger!
> Kat
Posted by brynb on January 8, 2013, at 20:26:23
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
Well, Kat, I think you know exactly how I feel about this...
Bottom line: psychic pain is as bad as physical pain, if not worse, and for those who haven't experienced it, well, they can't judge.
As I write this my mom is nearby babbling away that "everyone else with depression gets better so why can't I?" And, at 38, "I'm going to continue to screw my life up and not fulfill my dreams." Very supportive, huh? And I'm being accused of not thinking positively, which is a joke, as I try to be super positive and believe very much in creating our own realities. I don't want treatment-resistant depression. I don't want crippling anxiety. And I don't want to be pitied either, but I would love a supportive, understanding family.
If I had cancer, I wonder if my family's response would be the same. Doubtful. I know the pain my illness causes my parents, and that hurts me terribly, but it's like they're in denial of it being a disease.
In short, I just don't know why. While I'm at it, why don't we bring up the fact that mental illness still carries such a big stigma. I think my family sees a big ole' scarlet "D" on me.
-b
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