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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 21:10:07
Just a short question here...
Since 1 year I can't stop eating sugar. I don't know why but I crave for sugar big time!
The problem is that I feel bad after I eat sugar...I'm talking about candies not complex sugar...
I recall that my Doc told me that my fasting blood sugar was borderline the hypoglycaemia lower limit...
Also the blood test I had recently show a relatively lower range for the glycosylated haemoglobin (HbA1c), who represent the average blood glucose level of the last 3 months. I have a result of 0.047, normal are between 0.040 and 0.060.
That's mean that in the last 3 months my blood sugar level was around 70 mg/dl, who is lower than the average...
I eat too much sugar, can eat a whole bag of hard candies like the webers original caramel, or 2 packs of sponge toffee who is more than 180 grams of sugar... So why my blood sugar is so low?
Why when I eat sugar I feel bad after all the time, my heart race, my head hurt, have chest pain and panic attacks... But I can't stop eating sugar even if I feel bad after... It's more addictive than smoking for me now!
Also my mom have diabete type 1 so insulin injections 4 times a day...
So why sugar make me feel more anxious and trigger panic and anxiety symptoms? I never had problems with sugar in the past!
Also my Doc talk about reactive hypoglycaemia who mean not being really hypoglycaemic but react to sugar more than usual people's... If I had that problem my glycosylated haemoglobin will be a lot higher no???
How you react to sugar? I ask everyone on babble!
Is it all in my head? Why the anxiety after eating sugar and why I'm so addicted to it now?
Have to mention that I had and still have some intestinal problems so I can't eat a lot of foods... I'm underweight.... Also take often my blood glucose level with the machine of my mom and I'm always in the middle range and do the home test by fasting for 12 hours and take 75 of glucose and took my blood glucose level for 6 hours and I have no high peak of sugar, it's seem to stay the same all the time...
Well I hope that people's here will share their experience with sugar and how it's affecting you!
Thanks!
Posted by Phil on December 22, 2012, at 21:48:46
In reply to Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 21:10:07
Here's some info that may answer some of your questions. I eat tons of sugar since being on antipsychotics and after reading this article I may have one answer to my terrible memory.
Hopefully someone hear can answer more in depth.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/04/01/what-eating-too-much-sugar-does-to-your-brain/
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 22:40:33
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Phil on December 22, 2012, at 21:48:46
> Here's some info that may answer some of your questions. I eat tons of sugar since being on antipsychotics and after reading this article I may have one answer to my terrible memory.
> Hopefully someone hear can answer more in depth.
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/04/01/what-eating-too-much-sugar-does-to-your-brain/That's an interesting link...
I can understand why you crave for sugar since all the AP tend to do this, no wonder why they are link to metabolism disorders like diabete type 2...
Do you feel anxious after eating sugar???
My problem is that I'm not on an AP or an AD...only Klonopin and Inderal... Nothing to explain the intense sugar craving and intake and nothing to explain the anxiety I have after I eat sugar....
Like you I have terrible memory but I link it to the high dose of daily Klonopin 7 mg day... Also the Inderal make me feel very tired but I suspect it to be the main reason why I don't sleep well recently since my Doc increase the dose.
I want to stop eating sugar but I can't!!! It's as addictive as cigarette or benzo meds for me...
Tonight I had an bad craving for cream sugar...made of brown sugar, white sugar and 35% cream... I cook it and eat almost half of the receipe so almost 1/2 cup of brown sugar, 1/2 cup of white sugar and 1/2 cup of cream...and butter of course...
I had a bad dizziness vertigo crisis who happen 1 hour later... With a weak feeling and chest pain... I took my blood sugar and it was at 3.2... Here in the Canada the normal range is 3.5 to 7...
If it was hypoglycaemia, I mean eating sugar will increase the blood sugar and stop the symptoms no??? But it's not what happen with me...
I took it again 3 hours later and it's still low at 3.6... Feel weak and slightly nausea and dizzy... Heart palpitation and tachycardia also...
Is going on a hypoglycaemic diet can help me in a long time?
Or it's only anxiety symptoms who manifest cause I know I eat sugar and that my brain linked it to feeling anxious and bad???
That's so annoying to feel bad all the time and don't know why I have so many physical symptoms...
Anyway thanks for the nice link...
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 22:59:51
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 22:40:33
No more sugar for low blood sugar protein and milk yes milk will raise it. But if a diabetic the opposite is true as no longer able to synthesize sugar the sugar can go so low it's a crisis and glucose needed to raise it. But you can't do this all the time. Since you don't have type l diabetics I feel your sugar ups in first hour and then crashes and causes you to feel this way. Same predicament as me as cant taste so such on chocolate truffles and need to eat dinner right after to avoid the sugar drop. BDNF no idea? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 23:04:51
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 22:40:33
Wike & BDNF no idea of connection to sugar. But excercise is good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_factor
Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 23, 2012, at 19:55:09
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 23:04:51
you asked something at the end of your post...how do you react to sugar...
well...at night I used/still do make lemonade or something like cystal light, and put LOTS of sugar in it to make it like a candy drink....when im about done with the glass....i can feel this feeling...my mood improves, its like a low form of euphoria....its glucose....and when they rise...something with mind increases nuerotransmitters...but it falls within 30-45min. And then after that...you crave more sugar...i cant have anymore after my candy drink because the risk of high blood sugar and diabeities coming into the picture. So...its kinda like a candy beer...makes me feel good for about 40min....now let me get this clear....i put LOTS of sugar into crystal light...more than candy like skittles which are the highest sugar content.
It's not really a good idea, and stablizing the blood sugar will make health improve....
hope that helped..
r
Posted by bleauberry on December 24, 2012, at 5:21:29
In reply to Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 21:10:07
I've learned in my travels two things that cause sugar cravings. One, poor food choices....the person basically becomes addicted to the sugar, biologically. Second...Candida. Possibly other stealth infection. But especially a yeast infection such as candida, they feed on sugar, and even though their toxins don't feel good and feel much like depression or anxiety, the toxins have high affinity for opioid receptors. So addiction to that toxin occurs, despite the fact it doesn't feel good. More and more sugar is needed to feed the growing infection, since sugar is what they eat, and the cycle snowballs.
Poor food choices and candida go hand in hand, because one causes the other, and they both perpetuate each other.
I doubt the lab results of sugar related stuff is involved. Hypoglycemia, whatever....not enough to cause that kind of craving.
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 8:59:45
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by bleauberry on December 24, 2012, at 5:21:29
> I've learned in my travels two things that cause sugar cravings. One, poor food choices....the person basically becomes addicted to the sugar, biologically. Second...Candida. Possibly other stealth infection. But especially a yeast infection such as candida, they feed on sugar, and even though their toxins don't feel good and feel much like depression or anxiety, the toxins have high affinity for opioid receptors. So addiction to that toxin occurs, despite the fact it doesn't feel good. More and more sugar is needed to feed the growing infection, since sugar is what they eat, and the cycle snowballs.
>
> Poor food choices and candida go hand in hand, because one causes the other, and they both perpetuate each other.
>
> I doubt the lab results of sugar related stuff is involved. Hypoglycemia, whatever....not enough to cause that kind of craving.Candida...maybe but I don't have it. It's like Lyme disease that I don't have either.
I go with the explanation that I'm starving and avoid eating real foods cause of the intestinal pain I have and bad constipation, so less foods = body need energy so sugar craving occur since sugar is a fast way to give fuel to the body...
For the infection like candida, I eat and drink a lot of foods and herbal tea made of cinnamon... And cinnamon kill candida...also I don't have the usual symptoms of candida like discolorated tongue...and will start an antibiotic call Flagyl soon who will probably kill it if I'm having it so I will see if the problem can be from that...
To be honest I don't believe in Lyme disease or candida who are leading to very extreme anxiety symptoms or sugar craving, hypoglycaemia is by far a better explanation... And bad foods habits... But in my case Lyme can't happen since I live in a north country so it's too cold here and candida have many other symptoms that you can see in the mouth... Same to the adrenal fatigue, it's not even a real disease...all that natural stuff to heal depression or anxiety are just a new way to make more money... Same for inflammation who cause depression... I don't see why some people's think that an antibiotic can help them since my experience with the minocin is worse anxiety, depression symptoms, migraine... Depression and anxiety are biological, it's a problem in the brain, probably genetic, and probably not related to the serotonin... The brain is a big mystery for the man even in the 21st century... A lot of research need to be done before they will know really the roots of those problems...
Posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 9:29:46
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by bleauberry on December 24, 2012, at 5:21:29
You could be right but my sugar cravings went from moderate to unmeasurable when I was put on AP's.
I go by this.."When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra." AD's, some cravings, AP's, out of control. That doesn't mean I won't research this as I'm eating a bag of Oreo's.
Thanks for the info. Baby steps, right?
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 11:02:08
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one? » bleauberry, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 9:29:46
> You could be right but my sugar cravings went from moderate to unmeasurable when I was put on AP's.
>
> I go by this.."When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra." AD's, some cravings, AP's, out of control. That doesn't mean I won't research this as I'm eating a bag of Oreo's.
>
> Thanks for the info. Baby steps, right?Lol... I agree with you... AP are the worse for sugar craving... Some AD like the Paxil are also very bad...I remember that on the Paxil I gain 200 pounds in 8 months, it was before I had my gastric by pass surgery... Even when I return on the Paxil in 2009, I was free of anxiety but was eating junk foods all the time...and took 20 pounds in 2 months even with the gastric by pass surgery, I was so scare about being fat again that I stop the Paxil cold turkey... Of course panic and anxiety return but in a worse form so now I have extreme anxiety, somatoform disorder, gad, panic with agoraphobia, a lot of phobias like being in a car, be alone at home...homebound...chronic physical symptoms, IBS with big c... To name a few...
The Paxil is the only one med who work for my anxiety but I can't tke it anymore cause I'm med sensitive, a low 1 mg dose who is 1/10 the usual starting dose for panic disorder lead to tachycardia, more panic, feel like I wi die from a heart attack and more physical symptoms and even if I try to stay on 1 mg the side effects don't decrease so I can't increase the dose even slowly...
It was the biggest mistake I do in my life... When a med work you stick with it and deal with the weight gain by doing more exercise and eat well...
Anyway thanks for your answer -:)
Posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 11:25:44
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 11:02:08
Vincent I hope things will get better for you. If you want to talk come to Austin and meet me at Dairy Queen. I'll be the one eating four large Blizzards and cheeseburgers.
Not trying to minimize your condition. Just a stab at humor.
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 15:35:05
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one? » Vincent_QC, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 11:25:44
> Vincent I hope things will get better for you. If you want to talk come to Austin and meet me at Dairy Queen. I'll be the one eating four large Blizzards and cheeseburgers.
> Not trying to minimize your condition. Just a stab at humor.Thanks, I will hope the same for you -:)
Hummm Austin, too far away from where I live!!! Lol If you can find something to sedated me, I will join you for some blizzards... They taste so good!!!! Lol
Well, before my gastric by pass surgery I was used to go eat at McDonal 3 times a night... 3 larges French fries, 3 double Big Mac, 3 large coke... And sometimes was still hungry so stopped to PFK for some pop form chicken...lol
Those meds should have that side effect print in the monographs... Something like be aware, you can find yourself awake at 3 am and need to drive fast to the McDo to eat like a pig...and spend a lot of gas and money for junk foods, weight gain as the speed of light...lol
Minimize the situation is sometimes good... I tend to focus too hard on my physical symptoms so I need to laught once in a while...
Well, Christmas here, better take some time to get ready for the family dinner even if I'm not in the mood at all...
I wish you a merry Christmas and take care of you -:)
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 20:56:47
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 23, 2012, at 19:55:09
> you asked something at the end of your post...how do you react to sugar...
>
> well...at night I used/still do make lemonade or something like cystal light, and put LOTS of sugar in it to make it like a candy drink....when im about done with the glass....i can feel this feeling...my mood improves, its like a low form of euphoria....its glucose....and when they rise...something with mind increases nuerotransmitters...but it falls within 30-45min. And then after that...you crave more sugar...i cant have anymore after my candy drink because the risk of high blood sugar and diabeities coming into the picture. So...its kinda like a candy beer...makes me feel good for about 40min....now let me get this clear....i put LOTS of sugar into crystal light...more than candy like skittles which are the highest sugar content.
>
> It's not really a good idea, and stablizing the blood sugar will make health improve....
>
> hope that helped..
>
> rOh forgot to answer to your message, I hope you will forgive me !!!
I understand... You take AP and AD and both lead to increase appetite!!! Lol
AP are linked to diabete type 2 for sure...be carefully about that...
So no anxiety from sugar? I guess the Prozac prevent the anxiety...
Sugar dont lead to more energy for me, it tend to make me feel fuzzy, tired, and hyper active at the same time but hyper like very anxious...
Weird to see that everyone react differently to sugar...
Well diabete is not something I fear or will have since my blood sugar is naturally low and don't take AP...was on low dose of seroquel 25 to 100 mg for insomnia back in 2009 but that dosage was too low to interfere with my blood glucose level...
Thanks for your answer and I wish you a merry Christmas -:)
Take care !
Posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 21:33:06
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 24, 2012, at 20:56:47
I came home from the grocery store several years ago and had accidentally bought a half gallon of dutch chocolate ice cream, bad move. I opened the freezer to put it in and thought maybe I'll take a few bites. I stood at the freezer and ate the whole thing.
I'm surprised I'm not dead by now. Don't get me started on Popsicles which I dip in yogurt.
It's getting under control finally. I cannot buy that stuff because I'll eat it.
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 25, 2012, at 10:36:57
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 21:33:06
> I came home from the grocery store several years ago and had accidentally bought a half gallon of dutch chocolate ice cream, bad move. I opened the freezer to put it in and thought maybe I'll take a few bites. I stood at the freezer and ate the whole thing.
>
> I'm surprised I'm not dead by now. Don't get me started on Popsicles which I dip in yogurt.
>
> It's getting under control finally. I cannot buy that stuff because I'll eat it.Hahaha are you kidding??? Lol
Funny...thanks god it's getting under control -:)
You remember me the many nights that I awake to go in the freezer and eat a whole box of chocolate and caramel cakes...12 cakes ...so around 4000 calories... Lol
Or the last time when I was on the Paxil. One night I bought 2 big bags of Sunchips harvest cheddar flavoured with 4 chocolate bars MARS... I eat everything in 30 minutes... 2 hours later stop at the restaurant with my friend and order 2 cheeseburger with a large French fries... I ending the night in the bathroom, throwing up and ******.... I wasn't able to stop eating that night...with the gastric by pass I can't eat too much so it's hard to control myself when I'm on an AD...
Now I don't eat enough, who is another problem since I'm underweight, feel tired all the time, can't exercise cause I have exercise intolerance, low blood pressure, intestinal obstructions, IBS with big C... I'm starving all the time so welcome the sugar craving...sugar is the only one thing that I can eat without being in pain...on other hand it make me feel very agitated and anxious...
Oh well, last evening all the family was home for Christmas Eve and eat the whole bowl of fudge...wasn't able to eat the normal food so just sit and watch family eating turkey, meat pie, and many other foods and I was eating fudge... I had a crash 1 h later and a student drop of blood pressure with tachycardia and the worse migraine I had in the last month... Got to bed at 3 am, almost pass out and get up at 8 with that bad migraine and not usual chest pain and tachycardia with irregular heart beat and dizziness.... Feel like I will die... It's seem that I can't stand being around people's anymore so my body react badly when it's happening....
Anyway enough about myself...
I do hope you have a great Christmas! Enjoy it -:)
Posted by bleauberry on December 25, 2012, at 11:29:34
In reply to Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 22, 2012, at 21:10:07
The only way to break the sugar addiction is the same as any other addiction. The substance has to be removed, withdrawals endured, and then there is green grass on the other side. But you have to go through strong discomfort to get there. On the other hand, the risks of not doing so are almost guaranteed and are far worse than the withdrawal and readjustment of lifestyle.
Here's an accurate way to test for candida. Maybe you don't have it. Basing a diagnosis on whether the tongue has a coating or not is faulty because it ignores all the other symptoms that are positive and also ignores that candida can have strong impact without infecting the tongue. To test, first thing in the morning don't swallow or drink. Immediately out of bed get a glass of water and spit in it. Then just let it sit and see what happens. Normal spit will just float on the top of the water and not do anything. Infected spit will form milky trails that fall like strings to the bottom of the glass. Mine was so bad they were actually more like milky curtains. Anyway, it's been months of various lyme herbs that happen to also be suppressive against yeast, and I don't have any milky trails any more. I had them for months. Finally they are gone. When you read on the net that it takes a long term approach to get an infection like that under control, it's true. Months, not days or weeks. Sugar is the absolute worst thing to be doing. That's like throwing more wood on the fire.
Anyway we can all believe what we want. To me your presentation looks pretty much textbook, nothing remarkable, right in line with what would be expected. But in this case, as in any other case, it is always possible to also show a reason why the apparent diagnosis could be wrong. Things are hardly ever black and white. Different shades of gray is more common.
The sugar will kill you. It's not a sweet way to go either, no pun intended. The addiction to sugar is the primary problem here, regardless of its cause, and the only way to escape the trap is to stop all sugars and go through the withdrawals,. I don't see an easy way out of this one. If it were me I would be employing the assistance of my doctor to help me figure out what to do.
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2012, at 18:10:36
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by bleauberry on December 25, 2012, at 11:29:34
Dark chocolate is healthy and good for you. If you eat baking chocolate no sugar in it at all. Phillipa
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 26, 2012, at 19:07:01
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2012, at 18:10:36
> Dark chocolate is healthy and good for you. If you eat baking chocolate no sugar in it at all. Phillipa
Yes apparently 85% and more dark chocolate is loaded with antioxidant...
I had one tablet of 95% dark chocolate, the taste wasn't good...
Candida...not for me, had a gastroscopy last summer and everything looks good inside me, the biopsies show no infection or anything else...
Sugar can't kill when you eat it once in a while... The body need sugar, complex or simple...
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 27, 2012, at 17:59:38
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2012, at 18:10:36
> Dark chocolate is healthy and good for you. If you eat baking chocolate no sugar in it at all. Phillipa
Hi ordered some Erythritol and receive it today, it's a sugar alcohol that is not causing laxative effect like the other sugar alcohol sugars and it taste not too bad...but not like real sugar...apparently it's the safest sugar alcohol and normalise the blood glucose level... So far I eat some and no gastric symptoms like with the malitol or the isomalt... Too bad they don't make some candies with it...
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 27, 2012, at 22:17:38
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by Vincent_QC on December 27, 2012, at 17:59:38
Vincent, have you tried high dose chromium picolinate?
Some people say it helps with sugar cravings - given that its cheap and safe, it might be worth a try.
Posted by larryhoover on December 27, 2012, at 22:57:45
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 27, 2012, at 22:17:38
> Vincent, have you tried high dose chromium picolinate?
>
> Some people say it helps with sugar cravings - given that its cheap and safe, it might be worth a try.That strikes me as a very good idea, jono. The short stomach retention time caused by the gastric surgery would limit the efficacy of acid in releasing minerals from food. Combine that with Vincent's stated aversion to proteins, and you may have found the vicious circle of unintended effects at the heart of the distress.
Best,
Lar
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2012, at 10:45:38
In reply to Re: Craving for sugar , I'm the only one? » jono_in_adelaide, posted by larryhoover on December 27, 2012, at 22:57:45
> > Vincent, have you tried high dose chromium picolinate?
> >
> > Some people say it helps with sugar cravings - given that its cheap and safe, it might be worth a try.
>
> That strikes me as a very good idea, jono. The short stomach retention time caused by the gastric surgery would limit the efficacy of acid in releasing minerals from food. Combine that with Vincent's stated aversion to proteins, and you may have found the vicious circle of unintended effects at the heart of the distress.
>
> Best,
> LarHi Lar, the kind of gastric surgery I had dont affect the stomach...they keep the muscle that I forget the name at the end of the stomach and the size of the stomach return to it original size after 2 years... They by-pass a lot of intestine, keep only 1.5 meters on 7 meters...that's why people's loose so much weight, far soluble vitamins are the ones who are not well absorb, water solub vitamins are not affected. Also no dumping syndrome cause of the normal stomach so sugar can't cause rapid rise of sugar like it usually do for the type of gastric by pass they perform most of the time in the USA where they leave only a small pounch as a stomach... So in order of malabsorption, fat is what I absorb the less... The good news is that less fat is absorb who lead to low bad cholesterol and low triglycerides.... But on other hand the good cholesterol is also very low...I try to fix it right now with high dose of omega 3 fish oil but so far no improve, I guess I don't absorb omega 3 very well... Secondly the proteins are not well absorb... Who can be a problem so that's why the Surgeon ask to eat more proteins, vegetables are hard to digest since food high in fiber are not good and can lead to obstruction and fruits is also the same problem, they have to be mashed, without skin, no seeds, no corn, no nuts, no peanut... So that's why we are told to eat meat or nother kind of protein first and if we are hungry we can add mashed fruits and a little bit of vegetable...
I did try the chromium and didn't find it effective to control the sugar craving... Already have to take 1 strong centrum multi-vitamins a day, Vitamine D 50 000 units a day who is a huge dose but I'm borderline limit for that vitamin from my last blood tests. Have to take Vitamine A 30 000 units a day also and 1500 mg of calcium and 300 mg of iron...
For now I don't take the calcium and iron cause of the severe constipation, my calcium level is low but the iron, ferritine, B12 and red cells, hemoglobin are all middle range... So no anemia... And I'm lucky cause I have internal bleeding hemmorhoids...
I really think the sugar craving is linked to my low solid foods intake cause of the internal pain and constipation. The anxiety following the sugar intake can be psychology related, I mean that when I eat sugar I think about side effects it can have on me and lead to panic... My anxiety for most part come from conditioned fears... Negative thoughts about possible disease I can have especially my heart, head or lungs... Cause I know I don't exercise so not in good physical state, I smoke and I don't eat enough so I'm underweight...
That's hard to reverse that kind of anxiety call somatoform disorder... Just find a new therapist so will work hard on all of this in 2013... Other CBT therapies I had and I had done a lot of them between 2008 and 2011 had no success to decreas my anxiety... So will hope that new therapist will help me more...
This is the end of the thread.
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