![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2012, at 8:27:59
So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2012, at 8:57:17
In reply to getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2012, at 8:27:59
You aren't coming anywhere close to sufficient MAO inhibition for Parnate to exert a therapeutic antidepressant effect. I am beginning to think that a change to Nardil or Marplan makes sense for you. You seem to be too sensitive to Parnate to be able to work the dosage up to 40 mg/day, which is usually the minimum dosage that Parnate produces results.
How do you know that you are not bipolar?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 9:30:42
In reply to getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2012, at 8:27:59
> So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
>
> I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
>
> I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
>
> Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
>
> Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
>
> I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
>
> I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
>
> Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
>
> g_g-_g_ unit,
You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 9:59:19
In reply to Lou's response-dhekatchuriyndhaly » g_g_g_unit, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 9:30:42
> > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> >
> > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> >
> > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> >
> > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> >
> > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> >
> > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> >
> > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> >
> > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> >
> > g_g-_g_ unit,
> You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
>
> g_g_g_ unit,
I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
Lou
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 10:05:12
In reply to Lou's response-dhewroadtudhth, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 9:59:19
> > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > >
> > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > >
> > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > >
> > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > >
> > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > >
> > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > >
> > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > >
> > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> >
> > g_g_g_ unit,
> I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> Lou
> http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> >
> > correction to link:
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2012, at 10:31:30
In reply to correction- Lou's response-drug interactions, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 10:05:12
Lou would you please stop the poster is in obvious distress and needs helpful information. I feel that having posts as this could harm the poster in question as his thread and question is not being answered. Any response to this please write me privately. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 10:48:39
In reply to correction- Lou's response-drug interactions, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 10:05:12
> > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > >
> > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > >
> > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > >
> > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > >
> > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > >
> > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > >
> > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > >
> > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > >
> > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > Lou
> > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > >
> > > correction to link:
> http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> >
> > correction to correction:
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 11:09:20
In reply to correction to correction- Lou's response-, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 10:48:39
> > > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > > >
> > > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > > >
> > > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > > >
> > > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > > >
> > > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > > >
> > > > correction to link:
> > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > >
> > > correction to correction:
> http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> >
> > ggg,
I see a great danger in the taking in combination the drugs you have listed here. First, the potential of a hypertensive crisis
Let us look at {clonidine}. Now here is a link of the reported adverse reaction of hypertensive crisis with clonidine. I intend to develope an exposition here that IMHO could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, unless the rule of 3 applies.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/clonidine/hypertensive+crisis
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 11:31:18
In reply to Lou's response-clonidine-hypertensive crisis, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 11:09:20
> > > > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > > > >
> > > > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > > > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > > > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > >
> > > > > correction to link:
> > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > >
> > > > correction to correction:
> > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > >
> > > ggg,
> I see a great danger in the taking in combination the drugs you have listed here. First, the potential of a hypertensive crisis
> Let us look at {clonidine}. Now here is a link of the reported adverse reaction of hypertensive crisis with clonidine. I intend to develope an exposition here that IMHO could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, unless the rule of 3 applies.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/clonidine/hypertensive+crisis
> >
> > g_g_g
Now let us look at the consideration with the combination of drugs that you take. One such adverse potential is hypotensive crisis. We have seen above that in infants, clonidine could cause hypertensive crisis. Yet in adults, the combination of drugs with clonidine/benzodiazepine/parnate could cause hypotnsive crisis. I intend to tie this in a nother part of my exposition here that IMHO could sve not only your life, but others that read this site.
Lou
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/hypotensive_crisis.htm
>
>
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2012, at 13:56:41
In reply to getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2012, at 8:27:59
I agree with Lou Pilder that clonidine isn't the best drug to experiment with when taking an MAOI. I don't like it for two reasons:
1. Hypotension. Clonidine might work synergistically with MAOIs to reduce blood pressure and produce an unacceptable degree of dizziness. This probably would not occur until you reach higher dosages of Parnate, though. Having said that, I can report that adding prazosin, another sympatholytic antihypertensive drug, to Parnate 80 mg has not produced very much more dizziness than the Parnate would produce alone. I experienced significant dizziness during the first week or two, but it subsided. Perhaps the same thing would occur with clonidine. It really is an experiment for which I cannot predict the outcome.
2. Depression. Clonidine is often depressogenic, even for people who don't have a mood disorder. Pharmacologically, clonidine is the antithesis of Remeron with respect to NE neurotransmission.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 14:05:46
In reply to Lou's response-clonidine-hypotensive crisis, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 11:31:18
> > > > > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > > > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > > > > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > > > > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > >
> > > > > > correction to link:
> > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > >
> > > > > correction to correction:
> > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > >
> > > > ggg,
> > I see a great danger in the taking in combination the drugs you have listed here. First, the potential of a hypertensive crisis
> > Let us look at {clonidine}. Now here is a link of the reported adverse reaction of hypertensive crisis with clonidine. I intend to develope an exposition here that IMHO could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, unless the rule of 3 applies.
> > Lou
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/clonidine/hypertensive+crisis
> > >
> > > g_g_g
> Now let us look at the consideration with the combination of drugs that you take. One such adverse potential is hypotensive crisis. We have seen above that in infants, clonidine could cause hypertensive crisis. Yet in adults, the combination of drugs with clonidine/benzodiazepine/parnate could cause hypotnsive crisis. I intend to tie this in a nother part of my exposition here that IMHO could sve not only your life, but others that read this site.
> Lou
> http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/hypotensive_crisis.htm
> >
> > Friends,
The correction is that I wrote that in the adverse event from clonidine resulting in hypertensive crisis, I wrote that it was the infants that were likely. The correction is that it is the elderly that are likely to get hypertensive crisis. Notice in the link that it is 70% over the age of 60.
But be advised that other age groups are listed in that site also.
Lou
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 14:25:12
In reply to Lou's correction--clonidine-hypertensive crisis-, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 14:05:46
> > > > > > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > > > > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > > > > > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > > > > > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > correction to link:
> > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > >
> > > > > > correction to correction:
> > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > >
> > > > > ggg,
> > > I see a great danger in the taking in combination the drugs you have listed here. First, the potential of a hypertensive crisis
> > > Let us look at {clonidine}. Now here is a link of the reported adverse reaction of hypertensive crisis with clonidine. I intend to develope an exposition here that IMHO could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, unless the rule of 3 applies.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/clonidine/hypertensive+crisis
> > > >
> > > > g_g_g
> > Now let us look at the consideration with the combination of drugs that you take. One such adverse potential is hypotensive crisis. We have seen above that in infants, clonidine could cause hypertensive crisis. Yet in adults, the combination of drugs with clonidine/benzodiazepine/parnate could cause hypotnsive crisis. I intend to tie this in a nother part of my exposition here that IMHO could sve not only your life, but others that read this site.
> > Lou
> > http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/hypotensive_crisis.htm
> > >
> > > Friends,
> The correction is that I wrote that in the adverse event from clonidine resulting in hypertensive crisis, I wrote that it was the infants that were likely. The correction is that it is the elderly that are likely to get hypertensive crisis. Notice in the link that it is 70% over the age of 60.
> But be advised that other age groups are listed in that site also.
> Lou
> >
> > Friends,
The combination of drugs listed here has the potential to cause death. I can compute the chances of one taking this combination as to their time that they have left before the combination kills them. I have done an estimate and the chances are high, either by the taker of these drugs killing themselves or the reactions of the drugs causing a life-ending event such as heart attack or stroke.
Now it is now determined that the FDA agrees that people who are suicidal,have their thinking to kill themselves increased when they take particular psychotropic drugs such as antidepressants and anti-convulsants.
Here is a link to a site that shows that of the reported events, over 5% killed themselves while in the drug in question. My friends, 5% is very significant.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/diazepam/completed+suicide
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 14:40:50
In reply to Lou's warning-clonidine/parnate/diazepam--death, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2012, at 14:25:12
> > > > > > > > > So I've been having tremendously difficulty trying to raise my Parnate dose due to the fact that I'm profoundly sensitive to stimulants. I apologize if this is overly-complicated and obsessive, and I'd appreciate advice from anyone can be bothered to wade through it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I began by taking just 5mg twice a day. My sense was that a tolerance finally developed, so my psychiatrist instructed I take 10mg in the morning and then 5mg at noon. Taking 10mg at once proved to be too much - I became irritable, anxious, mentally constricted, 'flat' in demeanor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I then tried taking 5mg three times a day, but in this case, each 5mg dose felt potentiated compared to taking it twice a day. I was wondering if increased MAO-B inhibition was responsible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I found that I was becoming profoundly depressed during the evening, so my psychiatrist suggested I take 2.5mg when I felt the Parnate 'wear off'. This works well, but if I take *any* Parnate after 5pm, I'm up the entire night. For what it's worth, I also find 2.5mg to be almost ideal as far as concentration, anxiety etc. goes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since each dose lasts 3 hours, however, it's difficult to fit multiple 2.5-5mg doses in before 3-5pm, so I've just been stuck taking around 15mg a day. I'm becoming increasingly suicidal and feel that I need to try and achieve an AD benefit faster, but simply can't tolerate a 10mg dose, which makes reaching 30mg difficult.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I tried taking my first 0.1mg of clonidine tonight. I wasn't tired an hour later and have work tomorrow, so have just taken 10mg of Valium.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would like to experiment with clonidine on a non-work night and see if it might help dampen the next-day overstimulation, but I'm not sure if the half-life is long enough? Otherwise, would my best bet be to just (temporarily?) employ a benzodiazepine to counter the overstimulation and try push through to a higher dose?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Logically it seems like it, but even with that plan in mind, I feel so desperate and helpless, like the world has just completely closed in on me. I'm trying to hang on and appeal to logic, but it's difficult. Additionally, if anyone has any advice for pushing through extreme despair, I'd appreciate it. I try to cover the basics - going for walks, watching TV, seeing friends when I can.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > g_g-_g_ unit,
> > > > > > > > You wrote,[...profoundly sensitive to stimulants...became ..mentally constrictive...becomming profoundly depressed...Parnate after 5pm..up the entire night...I'm becomming incresingly suicidal...clonidine tonight...taken 10mg of valium...I would like to experiment...Logically it seems like it...I feel so desparate and helpless...if anyone has any advice...the basics-going for walks...].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g_g_g_ unit,
> > > > > > > I can give you education that could save your life or prevent you from getting a life ruining conditionn or addiction. I could also give you information that could leads you into a new life, freee of mind-altering drugs and free from depression and addiction.
> > > > > > > Now Mr.Hsiung has posted to me prohibitions here that prevent me from posting to you what has been revealed to me that could save your life and lead you out of depression and save you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > > > > But first, let's look at the combination of the drugs that you are taking as to their potential to kill you or give you a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > > > > > > Here is a link to a site that catalogs what could happen to a person when the drugs in question are combined.
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > correction to link:
> > > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check-.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > correction to correction:
> > > > > http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=704-0,2225-2342,862-441
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ggg,
> > > > I see a great danger in the taking in combination the drugs you have listed here. First, the potential of a hypertensive crisis
> > > > Let us look at {clonidine}. Now here is a link of the reported adverse reaction of hypertensive crisis with clonidine. I intend to develope an exposition here that IMHO could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, unless the rule of 3 applies.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/clonidine/hypertensive+crisis
> > > > >
> > > > > g_g_g
> > > Now let us look at the consideration with the combination of drugs that you take. One such adverse potential is hypotensive crisis. We have seen above that in infants, clonidine could cause hypertensive crisis. Yet in adults, the combination of drugs with clonidine/benzodiazepine/parnate could cause hypotnsive crisis. I intend to tie this in a nother part of my exposition here that IMHO could sve not only your life, but others that read this site.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/hypotensive_crisis.htm
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > The correction is that I wrote that in the adverse event from clonidine resulting in hypertensive crisis, I wrote that it was the infants that were likely. The correction is that it is the elderly that are likely to get hypertensive crisis. Notice in the link that it is 70% over the age of 60.
> > But be advised that other age groups are listed in that site also.
> > Lou
> > >
> > > Friends,
> The combination of drugs listed here has the potential to cause death. I can compute the chances of one taking this combination as to their time that they have left before the combination kills them. I have done an estimate and the chances are high, either by the taker of these drugs killing themselves or the reactions of the drugs causing a life-ending event such as heart attack or stroke.
> Now it is now determined that the FDA agrees that people who are suicidal,have their thinking to kill themselves increased when they take particular psychotropic drugs such as antidepressants and anti-convulsants.
> Here is a link to a site that shows that of the reported events, over 5% killed themselves while in the drug in question. My friends, 5% is very significant.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/diazepam/completed+suicide
> >
> > Friends,
Here is a link that shows the deaths by cardiac arrest from reports of those taking valium.
Now there were the stats of suicide in the previous post by me here from valium. and when you add all the ways this drug can kill you, the chances of it doing that is very significant. And could not when valium is combined with other drugs and other drugs are combined with even other dugs, increase the chances of death from the drugs?
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/diazepam/cardiac+arrest
>
>
Posted by kagome on March 18, 2012, at 21:22:19
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on March 18, 2012, at 13:56:41
I've been taking Clonidine for nighttime insomnia (which is most frustrating since I seem to be able to sleep at every other moment besides night) and for occasional irritability. I agree with Scott that it's probably not a sustainable solution, but I see nothing wrong with using it until you get up to a therapeutic dose of Parnate, which I am the first to say is a difficult, difficult thing. I don't know if it's made my BP worse - Parnate has tended to make me hypertensive instead of hypo - but I'm sure it's not helping depression to be on a benzo. I just see it as a bridge to help me get to where I want to go on Parnate.
In terms of things to do in the meantime, I wish I knew! I posted almost the exact same question and received almost the exact same response (i.e. mostly from Lou about the evils of medication). It sounds like you're doing more than I am - as much as I know exercise and being with friends helps, I'm having the hardest time making myself do that right now. I guess the things that have helped is doing anything, absolutely anything, whether a silly paint-by-numbers or sudoku or practicing guitar and knowing that if I keep doing anything I'll eventually get better at doing that thing, which gives me hope of doing better in general. I'm also reading a lot of Camus and Tolstoy which probably doesn't actually help but it does remind me that a lot of amazing people experienced severe depression and while I don't have the same ability to turn it into art I can at least try to start expressing it in more creative ways.
To me it sounds like you're on your way, so keep at it. And good luck!
-kagome
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 19, 2012, at 4:53:16
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by kagome on March 18, 2012, at 21:22:19
Thanks for being a voice of reason. I was overjoyed (but also rightfully skeptical) when I opened my inbox this morning and found that I'd had 12 responses to my thread. Shame on me for not realizing that I'd been another victim of Lou's anti-medication tirades (which I haven't even bothered to wade through).
You mention that "it's not helping your depression to be on a benzo". Are you referring to Klonopin or Clonidine (since the latter isn't a benzo)? If you are in fact taking Clonidine, what dose are you currently on? Like I say, I found 0.1mg ineffective as far as sleep onset goes, though I must admit that I was *far* less irritable on Parnate today (how much credit should go to the 10mg of Valium I took last night, I don't know).
I was under the impression that you'd reduced your Parnate dose - with the intention of withdrawing completely - though it's nice to have a companion in arms. It isn't my intention to give up at this point, but I know I *have* to reach at least 30mg as soon as possible, because I don't know how much longer I can stand these awful night-time crashes into depression and despair.
In terms of passing the time, I wish I could read and do more things on my own. Some stuff - news articles etc. - is manageable, and when the stimulant aspect of the Parnate is working, I can manage long-form New Yorker articles. But I just don't really have either the concentration or emotional capacity for fiction. I was hoping that's something the Parnate might *improve* eventually. But so far that's one of the downsides of the stimulant aspect - it makes me a little robotic and joyless, and even when I have the drive to socialize, I'm quite constricted. Anyway, I shouldn't complain too much. I just feel very stuck and can't see an end in sight right now and it's worrying me.
> I've been taking Clonidine for nighttime insomnia (which is most frustrating since I seem to be able to sleep at every other moment besides night) and for occasional irritability. I agree with Scott that it's probably not a sustainable solution, but I see nothing wrong with using it until you get up to a therapeutic dose of Parnate, which I am the first to say is a difficult, difficult thing. I don't know if it's made my BP worse - Parnate has tended to make me hypertensive instead of hypo - but I'm sure it's not helping depression to be on a benzo. I just see it as a bridge to help me get to where I want to go on Parnate.
>
> In terms of things to do in the meantime, I wish I knew! I posted almost the exact same question and received almost the exact same response (i.e. mostly from Lou about the evils of medication). It sounds like you're doing more than I am - as much as I know exercise and being with friends helps, I'm having the hardest time making myself do that right now. I guess the things that have helped is doing anything, absolutely anything, whether a silly paint-by-numbers or sudoku or practicing guitar and knowing that if I keep doing anything I'll eventually get better at doing that thing, which gives me hope of doing better in general. I'm also reading a lot of Camus and Tolstoy which probably doesn't actually help but it does remind me that a lot of amazing people experienced severe depression and while I don't have the same ability to turn it into art I can at least try to start expressing it in more creative ways.
>
> To me it sounds like you're on your way, so keep at it. And good luck!
> -kagome
>
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 19, 2012, at 4:55:50
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on March 18, 2012, at 8:57:17
> You aren't coming anywhere close to sufficient MAO inhibition for Parnate to exert a therapeutic antidepressant effect. I am beginning to think that a change to Nardil or Marplan makes sense for you. You seem to be too sensitive to Parnate to be able to work the dosage up to 40 mg/day, which is usually the minimum dosage that Parnate produces results.
That's always a possibility, but I had just as much trouble sleeping on Nardil, so if I'm going to end up employing something like a long-acting benzo (even temporarily), I'd rather try stick with Parnate for now.
>
> How do you know that you are not bipolar?
>I don't. However, my psychiatrist doesn't seem to think so.
Posted by SLS on March 19, 2012, at 6:58:02
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 19, 2012, at 4:55:50
> > How do you know that you are not bipolar?
> I don't. However, my psychiatrist doesn't seem to think so.My inquiry was meant to establish a possible explanation for your reaction to the stimulant component of Parnate, which emerges well before MAO inhibition occurs.
You are probably going to need a sleep aid regardless of whether you use Parnate or Nardil. My guess is that Nardil will not cause you the difficulties you are currently having with Parnate. Parnate was the logical first choice in my opinion. However, if you don't make it to 40 mg, it is unlikely that you will experience a full therapeutic effect. Some people do respond to lower dosages, but not many.
How did you respond to Nardil?
What dosage of Nardil did you take?
What were the side effects you experienced?
What other drugs were you taking along with Nardil?
Marplan is sometimes chosen when Nardil produces intolerable side effects. These two drugs are hydrazines. Parnate is not. To me, Marplan felt pretty "clean" compared to both Parnate and Nardil with respect to side effects. I discontinued Marplan because its therapeutic effect on my depression waned after the first week.
- Scott
Posted by papillon2 on March 19, 2012, at 23:07:03
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » kagome, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 19, 2012, at 4:53:16
> I was overjoyed (but also rightfully skeptical) when I opened my inbox this morning and found that I'd had 12 responses to my thread. Shame on me for not realizing that I'd been another victim of Lou's anti-medication tirades (which I haven't even bothered to wade through).
I am reminded of when I read a blog post with say 20 comments, 16 of them along the lines of "This is a very good post. You have raised many interesting points. I look forward to reading more about this subject".
I imagine the writer feels very pleased with the feedback until he realises that each reply links to a Chinese website selling "genuine top quality designer handbags" for $1.
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2012, at 20:45:37
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by papillon2 on March 19, 2012, at 23:07:03
Oh how funny sorry!!! Phillipa
Posted by kagome on March 20, 2012, at 21:54:06
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » kagome, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 19, 2012, at 4:53:16
> You mention that "it's not helping your depression to be on a benzo". Are you referring to Klonopin or Clonidine (since the latter isn't a benzo)? If you are in fact taking Clonidine, what dose are you currently on? Like I say, I found 0.1mg ineffective as far as sleep onset goes, though I must admit that I was *far* less irritable on Parnate today (how much credit should go to the 10mg of Valium I took last night, I don't know).Oops. I confuse Clonidine and Klonopin often. I'm on Klonopin, the benzo, which absolutely helps with sleep but not much else.
> I was under the impression that you'd reduced your Parnate dose - with the intention of withdrawing completely - though it's nice to have a companion in arms. It isn't my intention to give up at this point, but I know I *have* to reach at least 30mg as soon as possible, because I don't know how much longer I can stand these awful night-time crashes into depression and despair.
I so hear you regarding nightime crashes. I'm scared of them every night, although they haven't happened as much lately. Wish I could help.I was titrating down/off Parnate but decided once again to give it a fair shake, which means at least getting to 40mg, as hard as that feels right now. Obviously it's such a long, hard wait until meds work their supposed magic, a time of all side effects and no actual benefits. But it would be stupid to go through all I have so far without at least proving conclusively that it won't work for me, and preliminary evidence actually shows it might be what I need, So I'm staying the course for now.
> But so far that's one of the downsides of the stimulant aspect - it makes me a little robotic and joyless, and even when I have the drive to socialize, I'm quite constricted.
Interesting, you feel robotic and joyless with the stimulant aspect? I guess I call that the OCD part, and it helps me clean. But mostly I'm just exhausted and still very sad. I feel like I have to drive to socialize so much that I'll make a ton of plans and then get sad again and flake on all of them. Which has done wonders for my friendships, of course!
Anyway, here's hoping that the beneficial effects of Parnate kick in before the side effects ruin it forever.
Good luck!
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 21, 2012, at 8:38:23
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts?, posted by kagome on March 20, 2012, at 21:54:06
>
> Oops. I confuse Clonidine and Klonopin often. I'm on Klonopin, the benzo, which absolutely helps with sleep but not much else.Gotcha. My psychiatrist seems to have a slight aversion to Klonopin - I'm not sure why - but it was my plan to try it next as a sleep-augment if all else fails. So you don't find it interferes with the next-day stimulation of Parnate?
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> I so hear you regarding nightime crashes. I'm scared of them every night, although they haven't happened as much lately. Wish I could help.Yeah, I think they're actually getting a little better on my end too. Sometimes I actually feel best/most lucid at night lately.
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> I was titrating down/off Parnate but decided once again to give it a fair shake, which means at least getting to 40mg, as hard as that feels right now. Obviously it's such a long, hard wait until meds work their supposed magic, a time of all side effects and no actual benefits. But it would be stupid to go through all I have so far without at least proving conclusively that it won't work for me, and preliminary evidence actually shows it might be what I need, So I'm staying the course for now.
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> > But so far that's one of the downsides of the stimulant aspect - it makes me a little robotic and joyless, and even when I have the drive to socialize, I'm quite constricted.
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> Interesting, you feel robotic and joyless with the stimulant aspect? I guess I call that the OCD part, and it helps me clean. But mostly I'm just exhausted and still very sad. I feel like I have to drive to socialize so much that I'll make a ton of plans and then get sad again and flake on all of them. Which has done wonders for my friendships, of course!Hmm, yeah, it did produce a slight euphoria/increase in joy to begin with. But now I end up feeling stimulated enough to do stuff, but utterly emotionless at the same time. For example, I'll try to watch a movie but just feel completely uninvolved. I tend to stick to rote stuff like reading the news. I tried going on a date recently, but it was just embarrassing - I couldn't make any jokes or behave spontaneously at all. For some reason though, I seem to free up a lot at night once I'm no longer behest to the stimulant effect. I know that classic stimulants, e.g. ritalin, can produce personality changes, particularly if the dose is too high, so I wonder if it is just a sensitivity issue.
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> Anyway, here's hoping that the beneficial effects of Parnate kick in before the side effects ruin it forever.
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> Good luck!Yep! Good luck to you too..!
Posted by kagome on March 21, 2012, at 9:38:29
In reply to Re: getting frustrated - Parnate experts? » kagome, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 21, 2012, at 8:38:23
> Gotcha. My psychiatrist seems to have a slight aversion to Klonopin - I'm not sure why - but it was my plan to try it next as a sleep-augment if all else fails. So you don't find it interferes with the next-day stimulation of Parnate?Probably because it can be addictive, and in fact I don't think my current p-doc would give it to me if my last p-doc hadn't. I only take it at night and only 1 or 2 at most because I'm worried about permanent cognitive defects, which it can cause. So I don't have any fears of addiction. I also take one dose of Parnate at night and one (now starting two) in the morning. Haven't noticed Klonopin affecting me the next day or any difference between taking it, Melatonin, or nothing (or sometimes alcohol, to be honest, though I know that's not good!).
> > I so hear you regarding nightime crashes. I'm scared of them every night, although they haven't happened as much lately. Wish I could help.
> Yeah, I think they're actually getting a little better on my end too. Sometimes I actually feel best/most lucid at night lately.How funny, I'm noticing the exact same thing! Lately I've been feeling fantastic around 10pm-midnight. Which isn't the worst because I'm a musician and need to be at my best then if I have a show but otherwise I know I should be headed for bed and instead I'm feeling good enough to write the great american novel or at least lucid enough to make a plan for all the things I let slide while doing badly. I wish I could bottle that feeling or at least figure out some dosing schedule so as to feel that good/lucid more of the day!
> Hmm, yeah, it did produce a slight euphoria/increase in joy to begin with. But now I end up feeling stimulated enough to do stuff, but utterly emotionless at the same time. For example, I'll try to watch a movie but just feel completely uninvolved. I tend to stick to rote stuff like reading the news. I tried going on a date recently, but it was just embarrassing - I couldn't make any jokes or behave spontaneously at all. For some reason though, I seem to free up a lot at night once I'm no longer behest to the stimulant effect. I know that classic stimulants, e.g. ritalin, can produce personality changes, particularly if the dose is too high, so I wonder if it is just a sensitivity issue.
Actually, I didn't notice any real improvement until I started taking Abilify, and within a few days (of a 2mg dose) I think I felt the things that Parnate is supposed to help with. At parties I started making jokes and being more of my old self without even realizing it. However, it alternated between moments of that and moments of extreme self-consciousness and rigidity. I think that's just due to the fact that it's been awhile since I've put myself out there, and I wonder if that's true for you to. It just take some time to get used to being involved with the world again after being in a depressive shell. Also, I definitely recommend you think about adding a small amount of Abilify, it made all the difference for me.
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