![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:06:23
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2011, at 10:45:46
I am actually in the process of finding another job because the one I have is not liking me much, they sent me home today and I was nothing but pure depreession when I found about this. Self pity, self decpetion, self obsession. Are what I suffer from. No one wants a pity party.
Its time that I pull my bootstraps up and get to work.
I love you!!
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:11:18
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 14:32:22
Right. My parents are tight on money and they can't afford getting me a place. Yes my mother has always told me I willl make it and then nothing happens. I think its just the female compassioate voice in the picture. I really want to get out so bad.
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:12:35
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » rjlockhart04-08, posted by floatingbridge on September 26, 2011, at 16:18:38
I will!!
thank you!!
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:17:04
In reply to Re: Dinah's got Tons of Wisdom for you, Matt, posted by SLS on September 27, 2011, at 22:16:10
What kind of agencies?? i've googled alot and the only thing I've found is homeless shelters.
Yes I know about being self independnt and its really going to be hard taking that first step. Thank you for your message
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2011, at 23:00:16
In reply to phillipa, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:06:23
Matt love you too am I still second Mom? Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on September 30, 2011, at 0:52:49
In reply to morgan miller, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:02:27
> Yes I think a therpist would be good again. I need to see a therpist. I also need to stop blaming people for my errors and take it in for myself and take responsiblity. I do have alot of complications. Like today I went in to work and they sent me home for not being productive. I need to be on a stimulant for attention purposes. These are the goals: to get my own place, pay for my insurance, and being able to support myself. I don't know how I am going to do it but I need to find a way to do it quick. Thank you for your imput.
>
> MattFocus first on feeling well and loving yourself. No need to rush too fast to do the other stuff, though they are important.
The other people in your life likely do have some blame in your struggles(i.e. your parents). This is something you will have to address in therapy and use it as a tool to understand things better in a way that you can be more compassionate with yourself. You need to let yourself off the hook to some extent, otherwise you will end up hardened like so many other people out there. Another thing to be careful of is not to get bitter when you start to understand more about how your childhood affected you. There will be anger, but it is important to try hard to deal with it in the right way.
Take care Matt, hope things start to turn around soon.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:48:18
In reply to SLS, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:17:04
> What kind of agencies?? i've googled alot and the only thing I've found is homeless shelters.
>
> Yes I know about being self independnt and its really going to be hard taking that first step. Thank you for your messageI used Easter Seals when I was about to become homeless. They specialize in working with people who have mental illnesses.
Also, locally:
CSP
CPCYou could start by visiting your county human services department and get a list of organizations that would be helpful to you. If you are lucky, your state will have openings in their Section 8 rental assistence program. They pay for at least 2/3 of the rent. This way, you could live alone and develop the skills necessary to function independently.
You might also check out NAMI and DBSA for resources that you can take advantage of.
I think it would be easier and healthier for you to move out than to try to live with your mother and capitulate to her controlling behaviors. However, while you two are living under the same roof, you could use much of Dinah's advice to make things more tolerable.
I wish I had more to offer you.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:52:44
In reply to zyprexa, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 21:56:18
> my mother isnt that bad. I keep blaming people for the way my outcomes came out. I need to start taking responsiblity for my own choices. My mom loves me and maybe a little too much. The reason I got angry with this sitaution is because I can't go back on stimulants because of my mother. That's why I resent her. Now to be realistic, that's not really a valid reason to be mad about that. There are alot of people who go through abuse in homes and never live with that person again.
>
> My mother is not psychially abusive nor emotionally abusive. There is just one rule in the house.Perhaps you should disregard my previous post with respect to the comments I made your mother. I was influenced by some of your previous posts about her.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:57:27
In reply to morgan miller, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:02:27
> Yes I think a therpist would be good again. I need to see a therpist. I also need to stop blaming people for my errors and take it in for myself and take responsiblity. I do have alot of complications. Like today I went in to work and they sent me home for not being productive. I need to be on a stimulant for attention purposes. These are the goals: to get my own place, pay for my insurance, and being able to support myself. I don't know how I am going to do it but I need to find a way to do it quick. Thank you for your imput.
>
> MattWell, it is healthy that you should make an effort to take responsibility for your own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. Don't be fooled, though as to whom the real culprits are. This includes the biological aspects of your mental illness and the environment that you grew up in. You are not to blame.
Psychotherapy is a great idea.
- Scott
Posted by zatar on September 30, 2011, at 10:58:19
In reply to I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 25, 2011, at 23:07:22
We are going through the same thing with my 22 year old daughter. She is living at home, resents it, but finds it difficult to apply for a job due to anxiety and dysthymia, and needs to learn basic life skills. It's not for lack of trying - she's worked with therapists on social and life skills, been to summer camps for this sort of thing, etc. But it has reached a critical point. As I discussed with her when she said that therapy didn't work before - she wasn't ready before and was passive in therapy, like an empty vessel wanting to be filled. So she entered a residential program three weeks ago that has primarily young adults, for individual and group therapy, to learn life skills, participate in their "social integration model" (doing things together as a group). I see evidence that the honeymoon phase is ending, as she is now bringing up her discomfort talking to new people and the group, but she agrees that maybe this is exactly what she needs and that if you experience some discomfort, then maybe this is what you need to work on. Her anger is necessary for her to reach a place where she sees the need for change and can be an active participant in it.
Matt, look at your anger as being necessary for change. You've got to go through the 5 stages of coping to move one: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Maybe you're finally ready to do something about it. And some of your responses to posters show a level of maturity about them; recognizing that you need to do something, that you need to learn to handle things differently. So maybe you are ready to make change.
I encourage you to ask around about resources, as one of the above posters suggested. While it is difficult doing this when you are stressed and at your lowest, perhaps this is something your parents or others can help you with.
Moving out may help, but it should also be accompanied by therapy and support. You don't want yet another reason to beat yourself up (you don't know what to do, you pay your bills late, you forget to take your medications, etc.). I see very clearly that my daughter needs a total package: finding the right medication, therapy, immersion in real life situations, and learning life skills first supported, then moving to a group apartment where she can still attend therapy, group and activities at the residential location before finally being able to live on her own. While I know you cannot afford a situation like this, just be aware that you should aim for a multi pronged approach: therapy, support, life skills, real life exposure.
And know in advance that the road will be bumpy. It is for any young adult. I told my daughter that I WANT her to make mistakes. She is so afraid of failing that she doesn't even try. But you need to fall off the bicycle to learn to ride it on your own. And maybe you can find a friend or relative to serve as a "life coach" for you, as your ADHD seems to present a significant challenge. Failure with executive functions (organization, time management, etc.) is stressful and can exacerbate other disorders (anxiety, depression, bipolar). And check out books about young adults with ADHD. They often have helpful suggestions to get more organized. You can pick one or two things and work on them. Sometimes starting small lessens the burden enough to clear your mind and work on other issues.
Good luck to you, Matt.
-Zatar
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 30, 2011, at 18:17:47
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » sigismund, posted by Dinah on September 28, 2011, at 14:37:56
i'm sorry for not getting your message back to you in time. You really posted alot of knowlage about this subject that I can touch on. The thing is im scared to move out and that's why I post...its like I don't know what to do I stay at home and feel safe but at same time Its a prison to me. It holds all of my memories of amphetamine use and many other things that happened here. My mother is not abusive at all. She's strict and will not allow stimulants in the house. so... i sneak over the counter stimulnats like no doz into the house. I HATE no doz because its just pure caffeine and gives me nothing but anxiety. I really need some refrences to agencies. I just feel like I have the engine .. to get out but It just won't start. Like I don't really know what to do.
Ugh, I have so much I need to think about and I doon't want to do it. I feel stuck. But I know their are solutions out there and just have to get to them.
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2011, at 18:57:38
In reply to dinah, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 30, 2011, at 18:17:47
Matt I relate to some of the things you wrote do you feel you are also depressed? Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 0:40:38
In reply to dinah, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 30, 2011, at 18:17:47
Moving out to you means having access to stimulants? You want to apply to agencies to live on your own so that you can take stimulants without any limits?
Does this sound right to you? Do you really think it's in your best interests to be able to have unlimited access to stimulants? Do you think it's within the agency's mission statement to enable you to live on your own so that you can have unlimited access to stimulants?
Could it be that you are allowing your mother to be your ego, your self control, and then being angry with her for it? You've externalized that function? If she wasn't serving that function, you'd have to start being responsible for controlling yourself. Maybe a healthy step to moving out is to stop externalizing and start internalizing self control. Move the seat of power back to yourself.
How did your mother encourage you to complete your schoolwork or act appropriately in various situations. Did she explain the reasons for the rules, and allow you to make choices yourself? And suffer the consequences associated with those choices? How did she end up now being responsible for your making good decisions?
What precisely happened at the job? You say they sent you home because you weren't productive. Did you show up? Behave appropriately? Attempt to apply yourself to the job at hand? Why precisely did they feel they needed to send you home? Have you had this job long?
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 0:42:21
In reply to dinah, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 30, 2011, at 18:17:47
By the way, Matt. In all the time I've been reading your posts, I don't ever think I've heard you in such a self reflective mood, and taking so much responsibility for your choices. Maybe it's a signal that you're ready to move forward. I hope it is. :)
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 0:48:05
In reply to dinah, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 30, 2011, at 18:17:47
I also want to mention that I'm really not talking in terms of blame. There's a difference between feeling guilty or shamed and taking responsibility.
Things don't arise in a vacuum. Even the best intentioned parents can inadvertently make poor choices in childrearing. And biology is a fact.
Taking responsibility for our choices is a completely different thing - totally unrelated to blame.
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2011, at 7:43:11
In reply to Re: dinah » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 0:40:38
> Moving out to you means having access to stimulants? You want to apply to agencies to live on your own so that you can take stimulants without any limits?
What if he responds favorably to stimulants while failing to respond to other treatments?
- Scott
Posted by Solstice on October 1, 2011, at 7:50:56
In reply to Re: SLS » rjlockhart04-08, posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:48:18
Matt -
Call Texas` Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services (DARS). If your psychiatrist will sign off on the paperwork that you have a disability (which includes mental health), they will practically hold your hand to help you enter the workforce. They will help you get training, and they have contracts with employers that get tax breaks for employing people DARS is working with.
Look up your local branch, and give them a call!
Solstice
> > What kind of agencies?? i've googled alot and
the only thing I've found is homeless shelters.
> >
> > Yes I know about being self independnt and its really going to be hard taking that first step. Thank you for your message
>
> I used Easter Seals when I was about to become homeless. They specialize in working with people who have mental illnesses.
>
> Also, locally:
>
> CSP
> CPC
>
> You could start by visiting your county human services department and get a list of organizations that would be helpful to you. If you are lucky, your state will have openings in their Section 8 rental assistence program. They pay for at least 2/3 of the rent. This way, you could live alone and develop the skills necessary to function independently.
>
> You might also check out NAMI and DBSA for resources that you can take advantage of.
>
> I think it would be easier and healthier for you to move out than to try to live with your mother and capitulate to her controlling behaviors. However, while you two are living under the same roof, you could use much of Dinah's advice to make things more tolerable.
>
> I wish I had more to offer you.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Solstice on October 1, 2011, at 8:22:47
In reply to Re: dinah » Dinah, posted by SLS on October 1, 2011, at 7:43:11
> > Moving out to you means having access to stimulants? You want to apply to agencies to live on your own so that you can take stimulants without any limits?
>
>
> What if he responds favorably to stimulants while failing to respond to other treatments?
>
>
> - Scott
Scott -He does respond favorably to stimulants, but has repeatedly demonstrated addictive behaviors by abusing the stimulants. That`s the frustrating rub here. Matt will candidly tell you that if he gets his hands on stimulants, he Will abuse them.. so his mother and doctor do the responsible and safe thing by not allowing him to have a medication he has repeatedly abused.
It`s not his mother and doctor that deny him access to what will help him. He`s had repeated opportunities. It`s Matt who denies himself access to what will help him.. by abusing them each and every time he has them.
Solstice
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2011, at 8:29:30
In reply to Re: dinah » SLS, posted by Solstice on October 1, 2011, at 8:22:47
> > > Moving out to you means having access to stimulants? You want to apply to agencies to live on your own so that you can take stimulants without any limits?
> >
> >
> > What if he responds favorably to stimulants while failing to respond to other treatments?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
>
> Scott -
>
> He does respond favorably to stimulants, but has repeatedly demonstrated addictive behaviors by abusing the stimulants. That`s the frustrating rub here. Matt will candidly tell you that if he gets his hands on stimulants, he Will abuse them.. so his mother and doctor do the responsible and safe thing by not allowing him to have a medication he has repeatedly abused.
>
> It`s not his mother and doctor that deny him access to what will help him. He`s had repeated opportunities. It`s Matt who denies himself access to what will help him.. by abusing them each and every time he has them.
>
> Solstice
I see.Thanks for the explanation.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 12:10:19
In reply to Re: dinah » SLS, posted by Solstice on October 1, 2011, at 8:22:47
> It`s not his mother and doctor that deny him access to what will help him. He`s had repeated opportunities. It`s Matt who denies himself access to what will help him.. by abusing them each and every time he has them.
My mother would really like you, Solstice. :)
That was always part of "discipline" from my mother. She required me (and her students) to acknowledge their role in whatever consequences resulted from their behavior. Mind you, none of the consequences were at all abusive or particularly unfair. Just natural consequences. "If you don't follow the rules at the zoo, you have to stay by me instead of running around with the other kids." Things like that. There were never really any punishments, precisely. Just an explanation (lecture?) about the reason for the rules, and setting out what the results for noncompliance will be.
I was all set to do that with my son too, but found he had an unusually mature understanding on the topic. Maybe due to his Montessori experience. I rarely had to do more than explain the rules and consequences. He understood that the results were in his control.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on October 1, 2011, at 23:02:43
In reply to Re: dinah » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2011, at 0:40:38
1. Moving out to you means having access to stimulants?
-That is not the whole plan but that is part of the plan that is going to go along with it but I need to get away and start again. I know I have addictive abusive behavior that will result in abuse again but I am going to use abstainance to modify my behavior.2. You want to apply to agencies to live on your own so that you can take stimulants without any limits?
-People seem to think I am going to get multiple presciptions from doctors and go on an abuse rampage when I get out. That is something that is very doubtful to happen. I will use what I have conservitive and not abuse which I had done in the past. I still know I am going to get a strong urge to take more than im prescibed. I will let be known very well here. I am going to do my best for that not to happen.3. Does this sound right to you?
-It sounds like something that I deserve and need to. Are you talking about unlimited access to stimulants? no I will not be taking multiple stimulnats.4. Do you really think it's in your best interests to be able to have unlimited access to stimulants?
-I think all that's needed is doctor that will prescibe something I basically need. Not getting multiple presciptions from doctors. I never have written forged presciptions neither lied to doctors about my condition. I tell them exactly what is going on. Now, a couple of times I have "pushed" to get a stimulant and has both worked successfully and not successfully.5. Do you think it's within the agency's mission statement to enable you to live on your own so that you can have unlimited access to stimulants?
-that is something I will determine when I get there. I have a long way to go. But my main goal is to be on my own and supporting myself then stimulants will come next after I have settled everything. When im stable and can hold myself together but thats going to be hard because I think that I have to have a stimulant to function in life which is pure addict behavior I know I have and im trying to get rid of it. It sticks to you and its so hard to get it away from you because addiction is a part of life for me due to some situations.6. Could it be that you are allowing your mother to be your ego, your self control, and then being angry with her for it?
-I see it as she takes care of everything for me and provides support and love but the thing that she is lacking is the understanding that I would benefit from a stimulant and refuses all options relating to it. That's what really makes me not like her and maybe that is another part of being an addict because all the counselors I've seen have told me I've had addict behavior to obtain things I want. It's not with stimulants its with everything. I have a very weak will. I am not strong in supporting myself. I depend on many people to help me and that's why I post here so much to get help and advice from people who are wiser than I am. Their is many places I could go but I choose to come here because its like home for me here.7. How did your mother encourage you to complete your schoolwork or act appropriately in various situations. Did she explain the reasons for the rules, and allow you to make choices yourself?
-she actually would stress all options to get it done and would do anything to help me get it done. This is why I am so dependent on people because I have been taking care of my whole life and its just been a couple years without the stimulnats which helped me complete thing that I knew I could do. Yes she would tell the rules but I never got a chance to do them by myself. Everything was taken care of for me. Independency is something Im really going to have to take a step forward to get to.8. And suffer the consequences associated with those choices?
Yes, but I didnt face the real consequences. I was usally covered and soon this coverage will run out if I don't do anything. Reality is going to hit me soon and Im avoiding it. I've avoided many things that have success attached to it.9. How did she end up now being responsible for your making good decisions?
-Well theirs not that many descions that are made today because I don't want to go back to school because I feel stupid with out stimulants. Stimulants always made me feel real smart. Or smarter than other people and maybe I was but it was false sense of securtity that I looked to. And still to do today that's what I think about most of the time is that I don't have that help that stimulants gave me. I feel hopeless, sometimes.
10. What precisely happened at the job?
I had trouble taking instructions.11. You say they sent you home because you weren't productive.
Yes, that is correct. I didnt move fast enought and have good accuracy with JCPenny assessories. THat's where I did work at a JCPenny Warehouse factory.12. Did you show up?
-Everyday13. Behave appropriately
-It was just I didnt move fast enought.14. Attempt to apply yourself to the job at hand?
- I did everything they told me to do. I just had trouble following instructions and that made them think I didnt have much ability to listen.15. Why precisely did they feel they needed to send you home?
- because they didnt have anyhting that they could successfully use me as a productive person of the warehouse facility. I really am disappointed in myself for not meeting their critiria.16.
Have you had this job long?
2 weeks.Anytime ask me these questions and I will awnser them.
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on October 1, 2011, at 23:06:15
In reply to Re: dinah » Dinah, posted by SLS on October 1, 2011, at 7:43:11
that is what im trying to get my doctor to understand but she refuses and will not give me a stimulant even thought all other options are tried and failed.
The only thing maybe she will do is Parnate. I am pretty much one unlucky duck.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on October 1, 2011, at 23:08:33
In reply to Re: SLS - Agencies, posted by Solstice on October 1, 2011, at 7:50:56
I am calling them on monday and I googled alot of things that are goverment support programs.
Thank you!!
Posted by Dinah on October 2, 2011, at 1:35:05
In reply to Dinah - Your Questions Awsnered, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on October 1, 2011, at 23:02:43
> -I see it as she takes care of everything for me and provides support and love but the thing that she is lacking is the understanding that I would benefit from a stimulant and refuses all options relating to it. That's what really makes me not like her and maybe that is another part of being an addict because all the counselors I've seen have told me I've had addict behavior to obtain things I want.
There's a theory that in relationships people can fall into a familiar dance, where they repeat the same movements and steps over and over again. I've found this to be true myself.
I've also found it to be helpful to deliberately choose to make different steps sometimes. This will cause the other person to eventually change their own steps in the dance.
You know that continuing to try to get stimulants from your mother won't be effective. She'll see it as evidence of your addiction. So if it's not an effective step anyway, why not change it? Tell her how much you appreciate her love and support. Say that you recognize that she feels she needs to take care of everything for you, and you'd like to change that. You want to try to be responsible. She may not respond well at first and she may not believe you at first, but if you keep up a positive attitude towards her, you might find that your relationship becomes better. And as you try to make good healthy choices for yourself, and to take more responsibility for your wellbeing, you might find her an ally in your desire to live on your own.
It seems as if the two of you are in a destructive and self perpetuating dance. She feels like she needs to take care of everything for you. You feel like she's trying to control you and lash out. This makes her think you aren't ready to be responsible yourself and that she needs to take care of everything for you.
Instead of not liking her for what she does, maybe it would be good to find a way to learn to like her again.
Posted by Solstice on October 2, 2011, at 10:45:08
In reply to Solstice, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on October 1, 2011, at 23:08:33
> I am calling them on monday and I googled alot of things that are goverment support programs.
>
> Thank you!!I looked it up after I saw this post, and yeah, I think DARS will be just what you need. They work with everything - including mental illness, learning disabilities, and addiction. They have a whole program for achieving independent living - and it looks like there are three DARS-funded independent living facilities hear you - in Fort Worth, Dallas and Plano. Maybe they actually have living arrangements - like setting you up with roommates, along with help managing money, etc. They will have testing done on you first, which they need to do in order to have a good idea of where your trouble spots are, and to know what kinds of vocations you are most likely to be successful in. DARS will pay for vocational training too. And they encourage you to make independent decisions about everything.. along with their guidance and support. I think that through DARS, you can also get access to medical treatment. Since they have a very specific goal of helping people with disabilities become independent and self-supporting, perhaps the addiction treatment facilities/doctors they work with are more aggressive about offering treatment that will enable you to function optimally - but will also no doubt monitor your addiction issues. One thing I do know about DARS, though - is that you don't want to mess them over. They have a lot of people wanting/needing their services, and they only want to help people who are serious about doing the work - and will not jack it up by, for example, backsliding into substance abuse. A friend of mine's adult daughter is served by DARS, and I remember her telling me that the DARS counselor told her daughter that she had to stay in close contact with her counselor, at least through email. The counselor was not going to chase her down - she had to contact the counselor - I think at least every three months - for updates, and if he didn't hear from her, then they would take her off their books. I guess that's how they ensure they aren't wasting tax-payer resources on people who aren't really serious about getting their lives on track.
Best of luck - and I want to hear a report posted on what you find out after you contact DARS next week. If you really want to be independent - this really may be your ticket to reach that goal - but it's not going to just drop in your lap.. so get going!
Solstice
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