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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cydnie on March 31, 2011, at 12:28:31
I've been reading through posts and haven't read anyone have the same experience as me, and I'm so baffled by what it's doing. By doc thinks it's too much norepinephrine, but I know it works on so many things, and I've taken so many SNRIs and if too much became edgy (like other people wrote about remeron, making them rageful), but this is different. I started and went from almost suicidal depression that's been going on for so long, to markedly fast and drastic improvement on 1 pill, 15mg. Then my doc had me go up, cutting 1 in half and adding that (22.5). Then eventually he had me go up because I was getting depressed again, so up to 30 mg. He says my system is so sensitive he's learned, and that it was maybe too much NE, but when I've had other things with a lot of NE, I feel edgy & irritable. This was a fast and drastic drop into that same despair, hopelessness, and feeling like I could not get out of bed and cope with anything literally in about 3 days. I'm amazed I'm back here. When I started at 15, I so quickly was up, and almost forgot how depressed I was! Then worse as we crept up, and despair at 30! Does that make sense to anyone? This is the first AD that's worked for me, and fast. Now I'm back in that despair and every moment feels like forever, and at the same time, I want it to slow down so my toddler doesn't wake up, because I'm too depressed to deal with him. I know remeron hits on a bunch of other receptors, and it's tricky to figure out what, but I feel like it isn't NE, because that feeling is edginess for me, and this is despair. I'm so confused, and baffled - does anyone have any thoughts? I'm so lost, yet again. Thank you! Cydnie
Posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2011, at 13:25:15
In reply to Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on March 31, 2011, at 12:28:31
Cyndie I only took it for sleep with benzos years ago at 15mg and it didn't help sleep so discontinued. As for depression I've read of some great results from others on the higher doses. Phillipa
Posted by matthewdavid on March 31, 2011, at 13:44:05
In reply to Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on March 31, 2011, at 12:28:31
Hi Cydnie, I had a similar experience with SNRI's. Cymbalta, for example, helped med tremendously for 3 months, hug difference, then regardless of the dose I felt even worse than if I were to take no meds at all. Tried most SSRI's, NSRI's, TCA's, AP meds, and Lithium, under the direction of my Dr. I finally gave up on the Dr. and took control of my treatment. I read an enormous amount of user reviews for various types of medicines and found countless user reviews of people with similar symptoms as me, similar and failed treatment options like me, and based on this research decided I was going to try MAOI's and no longer stay on the 15 year path of Dr's switching me back and forth, with countless combinations of the "new generation of meds". only 3 weeks in but so far I feel Amazing, normal, happy, and best of all I feel like myself again. Best of luck to you
Posted by Brot on March 31, 2011, at 14:57:11
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone? » Cydnie, posted by matthewdavid on March 31, 2011, at 13:44:05
same for me. remeron worked the first day and made me worse the second day... just took is for about 1 week. was horrible
Posted by bleauberry on March 31, 2011, at 16:30:02
In reply to Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on March 31, 2011, at 12:28:31
I felt good very fast on remeron for a day or so, and then began to feel much worse than I had felt before taking it. I hung in there and tried more time as well as higher doses. The time didn't matter except the side effects become much milder. Dosage increases made me feel even worse.
Mileage varies and everyone reacts differently.
You could try adding one of your favorite previous reuptake inhibitors to remeron. The combo would probably feel different than either of the meds separately and the synergy of them increases the odds of success. Nortriptyline added to those even better. I'm not talking big doses in a mix like this. It's the synergy that works, allowing the potential for good results at low doses.
Posted by mtdewcmu on March 31, 2011, at 19:10:58
In reply to Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on March 31, 2011, at 12:28:31
I take Remeron 15mg at night. Remeron has different effects at different doses. The pdoc that prescribed it was fond of repeating that at 15mg it is sedating and at higher doses it causes increasing stimulation (he told me that about 5 different times -- I just nodded after a while). I tried increasing my dose, but at higher doses it was too stimulating in combination with Wellbutrin. Sometimes in psychiatry we lose sight of common sense. If it worked great at 15mg, then you ought to try sticking with 15mg.
Posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 12:23:46
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone? » Cydnie, posted by mtdewcmu on March 31, 2011, at 19:10:58
I'm so glad to hear from other people who had similar experiences. I seemed to go from being really happy, to feeling a little more down, to more, to more, and then despair. I strangely fell asleep last night very early without even taking it, and still feel really depressed (as well as really anxious because I finally found something that worked). The weird thing is I started out the mornings okay, and as I went along, got worse, not because anything happened, but I don't know, chemistry I guess. Circadian rhythm? I have no clue. I had been taking melatonin with the remeron (it never made me tired except for in the very beginning) and went up to 9 mg and it worked great. I thought maybe it was that, so I stopped that a few nights ago, but I still don't feel better. I hate this, it's so scary being this depressed, this despair, and I'm scared of getting worse. I decided to take a sam-e and see if I felt better. Yesterday I tried 1/2 an amitryptilene, but I think it just made me really tired, weird. I also take adderall which has always helped my mood, shut the bad self-criticism down, and I was able to motivate myself to do so much, and felt like a good Mom. Now I am back to being a mess, and terrified of getting worse. I hate this!
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 1, 2011, at 14:51:08
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 12:23:46
> I'm so glad to hear from other people who had similar experiences. I seemed to go from being really happy, to feeling a little more down, to more, to more, and then despair. I strangely fell asleep last night very early without even taking it, and still feel really depressed (as well as really anxious because I finally found something that worked). The weird thing is I started out the mornings okay, and as I went along, got worse, not because anything happened, but I don't know, chemistry I guess. Circadian rhythm? I have no clue. I had been taking melatonin with the remeron (it never made me tired except for in the very beginning) and went up to 9 mg and it worked great. I thought maybe it was that, so I stopped that a few nights ago, but I still don't feel better. I hate this, it's so scary being this depressed, this despair, and I'm scared of getting worse. I decided to take a sam-e and see if I felt better. Yesterday I tried 1/2 an amitryptilene, but I think it just made me really tired, weird. I also take adderall which has always helped my mood, shut the bad self-criticism down, and I was able to motivate myself to do so much, and felt like a good Mom. Now I am back to being a mess, and terrified of getting worse. I hate this!
If I were you, I would stop taking Adderall. Powerful stimulants can make you feel good, or they can make you feel really bad. Adderall is not an antidepressant, so it's unlikely to help your immediate situation, and it could seriously aggravate anxiety. If you get withdrawal, you could take a lower dose. Moreover, it could be having a negative interaction with Remeron.
Melatonin has been rumored to be capable of causing depression with long-term use. I would set that aside, too.
Taking one pill of SAMe here and a little amitriptyline there is not likely to do any good. The name of the game is to simplify and give each chemical a chance to work.
The reason that you feel different at different times of the day could be due to the fact that the levels of drugs in your system varies throughout the day. Remeron has a half-life of about a day, so if you take it once at night, you will have roughly half as much in your system by the next night.
As an aside, I read about a kind of time-release trazodone being approved by the FDA (Oleptro), but I don't see it for sale anywhere. Trazodone is kind of similar to Remeron, and having it delivered at an even rate is supposed to make the side effects tolerable.
Posted by Cydnie on April 2, 2011, at 13:33:21
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 1, 2011, at 14:51:08
I know a lot of people agree that adderall shouldn't be used as an AD, but it has been the only thing in the last year that has shut off my negative and critical self-talk, and motivated me to get out of bed, and do what I need to do most which is take care of my baby, and after years of being socially anxious, I finally got out of the house to socialize and for my son's sake went to playgroups. That was the most amazing thing. So my doctor and I agreed that for me, it has an antidepressant effect, and that for the time being, it is very useful until we find something that works in a similar way (he believes he is learning alot about my system by what things work so well, and what things don't and thinks adderall is giving him good ideas on what things will work and won't). He thinks the remeron was too much NE, but after doing a lot of reading, and after talking to my doc, I learned melatonin can cause depression in some people. You can have too much of it, and taking 9mgs each night for awhile can offset your other neurotransmitters. I'm just learning about it, so I can't explain too much, but there's a lot online about it (and your pineal gland and endocrine system). So I've been off of it for a few days, and I think the longer I'm off of it, the better I'll feel. Hopefully this post will help someone else! I had a strange reaction the second night of being off of it, fell asleep at 7pm and was unwakeable until about 9am the next day. Really strange for an insomniac who had taken nothing! I had no idea trazodone was similar to remeron (I had such bad reactions to trazodone, maybe it was too strong a dose) and a tiny dose of remeron was so great. So my doc is taking all my reactions, good and bad, and trying to figure out meds and supplements he thinks will use and if it helps, I'll post back in case anyone is interested. Thank you all for writing back, I was in such utter despair, and felt so alone, it was great to come here and feel support from so many people who understand :)
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 2, 2011, at 15:30:23
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on April 2, 2011, at 13:33:21
> I know a lot of people agree that adderall shouldn't be used as an AD, but it has been the only thing in the last year that has shut off my negative and critical self-talk, and motivated me to get out of bed, and do what I need to do most which is take care of my baby, and after years of being socially anxious, I finally got out of the house to socialize and for my son's sake went to playgroups. That was the most amazing thing. So my doctor and I agreed that for me, it has an antidepressant effect, and that for the time being, it is very useful until we find something that works in a similar way (he believes he is learning alot about my system by what things work so well, and what things don't and thinks adderall is giving him good ideas on what things will work and won't). He thinks the remeron was too much NE, but after doing a lot of reading, and after talking to my doc, I learned melatonin can cause depression in some people. You can have too much of it, and taking 9mgs each night for awhile can offset your other neurotransmitters. I'm just learning about it, so I can't explain too much, but there's a lot online about it (and your pineal gland and endocrine system). So I've been off of it for a few days, and I think the longer I'm off of it, the better I'll feel. Hopefully this post will help someone else! I had a strange reaction the second night of being off of it, fell asleep at 7pm and was unwakeable until about 9am the next day. Really strange for an insomniac who had taken nothing! I had no idea trazodone was similar to remeron (I had such bad reactions to trazodone, maybe it was too strong a dose) and a tiny dose of remeron was so great. So my doc is taking all my reactions, good and bad, and trying to figure out meds and supplements he thinks will use and if it helps, I'll post back in case anyone is interested. Thank you all for writing back, I was in such utter despair, and felt so alone, it was great to come here and feel support from so many people who understand :)
You're welcome. You don't have to quit Adderall just on the principle that it shouldn't be used as an antidepressant. If you are feeling miserable, it may be worsening any agitation and anxiety you might be feeling. If your situation is like a train wreck, which it sounded like, then you should be willing to take drastic measures, like stopping Adderall. If it was just a passing crisis, then you might as well leave your meds alone.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 2, 2011, at 15:37:37
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by Cydnie on April 2, 2011, at 13:33:21
"I had no idea trazodone was similar to remeron (I had such bad reactions to trazodone, maybe it was too strong a dose) and a tiny dose of remeron was so great."
Trazodone is similar to remeron in that it affects a grab bag of random receptors and is sedating. But the similarity doesn't go very far.
Posted by Cydnie on April 3, 2011, at 9:59:56
In reply to Re: Remeron good then horrible anyone?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 2, 2011, at 15:30:23
Thanks so much - luckily it feels like since I stopped the melatonin (the only thing I changed entirely) I've started to feel so much better each day. I was in utter despair, and then each day after stopping melatonin, I felt better and better. It's been almost a week, and I'm starting to feel so so much better. I don't think most people take as much as I was (9 mg) each night, and I read a lot yesterday about how too much can really influence your mood, but I had no idea I was taking too much (at least too much for me). I did and do take days off from the adderall here and there for various reasons (to give my body a rest, and hoping it will help not build tolerance and sometimes I feel like I can do fine without it, and eventually would love to med free - wouldn't we all!?! I know:) and luckily me doc uses both conventional and alternative treatments, and knows I want to move in the alternative, more natural direction. He likes to go slowly though, 1 thing at a time, so he knows what's changing and how. But things he's using is maca, rhodiola, accetyl l-carntine, so many other things, if anyone's interested. Alternative things work so differently for different people though, just like regular meds, I'm finding! Anyway, I feel so much better since I stopped the melatonin, and if anyone else finds they feel worse after taking that, maybe these posts will be helpful to you (and feel free to write me). Thanks again, and good luck!!
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